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Managers Thread; Spain sack Lopetegui. Yes, really.
Topic Started: 21 May 2016, 09:07 PM (998,466 Views)
Midfield Maestro
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There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 12:08 PM
There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
That's a pretty good way of framing it.

Levein took the criticism after the Scotland job really,really badly I'm told.
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ronny_is_not_da_man
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murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quote:
 
I had many good managers: Wim Jansen, Martin O’Neill, Frank Rijkaard and Alex Ferguson to name just a few. And Martin knew how to get everybody motivated. I remember when we were about to go onto the field at Liverpool in the season we reached the UEFA Cup final – we’d drawn 1-1 at Celtic Park so had to score at Anfield. The talk he gave before the game made everything sink in for me. I said to myself, ‘F**king hell, I will have no regrets after this game.’

This is what Cathro is lacking and it is something no top manager can do without. In that regard Kris Boyd was correct - you can have all the knowledge in the world but if you haven't got the ability to impart it onto people and inspire them to perform for you it is utterly useless.
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
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Gallowgate
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greenjedi
23 Feb 2017, 10:49 AM
Luigi
23 Feb 2017, 10:41 AM
remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 01:43 AM
Felt sorry for Cathro. Watched him closely tonight and he definitely isn't managing the team. Somebody from the dugout was up in the directors' box every 5 minutes, taking instructions from Levein and going back downstairs to relay them to Cathro. Levein left his seat 5 minutes before half time and went to the dressing room where he obviously told Cathro what subs to makeand, probably, gave team talk.

Saw Cathro post match. He looked like a wee student who was hanging about a stage door waitng for Belle and Sebastian. Some zoomer female Hearts fan had a go at him claiming he had told her they would definitely beat Hibs.

He's got a big job to turn it around. Hearts didn't lay a glove on a Championship side.
That's a crap state of affairs for Cathro then.
If Levein wants to manage the team then he should straight out come out and do it.
Don't hide behind Cathro.

Cathro should stand up for himself though and say exactly how it is.
He knew what he was getting into
Maybe he didn't know what he was getting into. Going on the feedback we got on here from last night i.e. Cathro being directed by Levein's runner, you've got to wonder. The guy has looked like Little Boy Lost more or less from the start and bar a hunskelping, the team are toiling.

In any event, he's right up against it now.
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Gallowgate
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Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 12:08 PM
There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
Spot on. When Budge came in practically hand in hand with Levein, he bumped Locke, brought in Neilson who was first up in a new line of visionaries, tasked to write up a manual on the coaching and playing side. The concept was the next guy would seamlessly take over and he's here now and been treading water since his arrival. Seems he's being undermined by Levein and that will only end one way.

Somebody will sit Budge down at some point and remove the Levein blindfold, though she doesn't intend sticking around indefinitely. In the meantime the club is going backwards.

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remy mcswain
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ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quote:
 
I had many good managers: Wim Jansen, Martin O’Neill, Frank Rijkaard and Alex Ferguson to name just a few. And Martin knew how to get everybody motivated. I remember when we were about to go onto the field at Liverpool in the season we reached the UEFA Cup final – we’d drawn 1-1 at Celtic Park so had to score at Anfield. The talk he gave before the game made everything sink in for me. I said to myself, ‘F**king hell, I will have no regrets after this game.’

This is what Cathro is lacking and it is something no top manager can do without. In that regard Kris Boyd was correct - you can have all the knowledge in the world but if you haven't got the ability to impart it onto people and inspire them to perform for you it is utterly useless.
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
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Kingslim
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
23 Feb 2017, 10:29 AM
LambertandButler
23 Feb 2017, 10:10 AM
remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 01:43 AM
Felt sorry for Cathro. Watched him closely tonight and he definitely isn't managing the team. Somebody from the dugout was up in the directors' box every 5 minutes, taking instructions from Levein and going back downstairs to relay them to Cathro. Levein left his seat 5 minutes before half time and went to the dressing room where he obviously told Cathro what subs to makeand, probably, gave team talk.

Saw Cathro post match. He looked like a wee student who was hanging about a stage door waitng for Belle and Sebastian. Some zoomer female Hearts fan had a go at him claiming he had told her they would definitely beat Hibs.

He's got a big job to turn it around. Hearts didn't lay a glove on a Championship side.
If that's all true, why not just make Levein the manager?
Since the Scotland debacle levein has got all sensitive and would rather hide behind other coaches. He's been in charge of the team since he arrived there.

Cathro will get to the end of the season.
don't think he'll get that far as we discussed a few weeks back.
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littlegmbhoy
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remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
Roy Aitken was of limited ability but according to most who played with him in the hoops a great captain, talker and motivator. Fair to say Davie Hay & Billy both relied on Roy being their man in that era in the dressing room and around the club.

We had limited teams in that era and maybe punched above our weight domestically against very good teams in the Sheep and United & of course 1988 was a year when Roy maybe shone his best in the role.
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ronny_is_not_da_man
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remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
:thumbsup: I was listening to Sportsound last night and Allan preseton I think it was, was absolutely slating him and the dude Martin?

He was slaughtering Martin in particular and said he is the same and is always getting hooked at Half Time. Also ranted about him being an apparent dead ball specialist. Said his crossing is woeful.
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hazy
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I'm a little bit irritated that we seem to have landed into a position where the ramblings of Kris Boyd are held up across various types of media as some kind barometer.

Hearts win: Boyd was talking pish
Hearts lose: Boyd was spot on.

To be used until Hearts win something, or the much more likely scenario that Cathro is booted.
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Jack Thaler
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remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
Neilson appointed Cowie as captain at the start of the season, then a month later handed the armband to Kitchen.

It looked an odd move at the time.
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Mackin
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Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 12:08 PM
There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
Levein was a director at Dundee United as well as being manager. He brought in Cathro there, and they had a lot of success bringing through youth. I'm not surprised they are trying to replicate that at Hearts.
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Midfield Maestro
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Mackin
23 Feb 2017, 01:07 PM
Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 12:08 PM
There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
Levein was a director at Dundee United as well as being manager. He brought in Cathro there, and they had a lot of success bringing through youth. I'm not surprised they are trying to replicate that at Hearts.
They brought through two or three decent young players - Stuart Armstrong being the stand out by miles - and that's about it.

Like Hearts, despite all the chat around youth development, they still ended up panic-signing a load of duds.

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Ned Rise
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littlegmbhoy
23 Feb 2017, 12:41 PM
remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
Roy Aitken was of limited ability but according to most who played with him in the hoops a great captain, talker and motivator. Fair to say Davie Hay & Billy both relied on Roy being their man in that era in the dressing room and around the club.

We had limited teams in that era and maybe punched above our weight domestically against very good teams in the Sheep and United & of course 1988 was a year when Roy maybe shone his best in the role.
Was he of limited ability? He was no McStay for sure but I thought he was a very good Celtic player.

Aside from that, I'm pretty sure that if him and Tommy Burns hadn't left (and to a lesser extent McGhee and McCarthy) we wouldn't have gone 6 years without a trophy. We lost lots of good experience with those guys.
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Quiet Assasin
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remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 12:33 PM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2017, 12:12 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 12:03 PM
Took this from the Larsson thread:
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:thumbsup: Totally agree. I would also add to that your captain needs to be a little mad in the head and have the same trait as the boss.

When I played years ago, school and amateur level, I captained, and played alongside captains, who would think nothing of tearing people apart if they where playing pish. Most of the time it worked and whilst it's uncomfortable at the time people got the message. Played in many a game where at half time we were all at each others throats and calling each other pish. It would send us out in a different frame of mind.
Hearts also substituted their captain, Perry Kitchen, at half time. I believe he gets subbed regularly (probably because he is pretty poor), but this shows he shouldn't be the captain either.
Kitchen was also benched for a few of the games they had decent results in.
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LambertandButler
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Mackin
23 Feb 2017, 01:07 PM
Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 12:08 PM
There is absolutely nothing in Levein's history which suggests he is suited for a director of football role. It's just bizarre. The whole thing seems like a vanity project for a guy who was basically found out as a manager and has subsequently hid himself away in a role where he can play Champ Man without being the one getting the flak on the touchline and in the press.

Everyone seems to think Budge is a genius, but she seems totally blinded by Levein.
Levein was a director at Dundee United as well as being manager. He brought in Cathro there, and they had a lot of success bringing through youth. I'm not surprised they are trying to replicate that at Hearts.
Hmm - except they're not. They gave a 3 and a half year contract to a 27-year old French who's played 100 senior games. They signed two veteran Greek guys. They signed Aaron Hughes who is about 132.

I don't think they really know what they're doing in terms of the first team. Although they certainly have the construction and media management side of the game down to a tee. I've never heard a Scottish club get a better press.
Edited by LambertandButler, 23 Feb 2017, 02:42 PM.
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ballbhoy
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Ian Cathro fits into the bigger picture in the fact that Hearts youths have been using his box soccer program for the last few seasons. I've seen the box soccer in action and the kids are streets ahead of their peers in technical ability. What I can't work out is whether that's because they've learned those skills at Box Soccer or whether they were already ahead of their peers and the kids used Box Soccer to hone their skills. Certainly when I watched Box Soccer kids from Dundee in a tournament they were miles ahead of other teams. Cathro will help ensure this program is running smoothly all the way through. Of course this doesn't help in the here and now.


If I'm being honest I'd have thought the better appointment would have been McPhee first team manager and Cathro his number 2. McPhee is more used to dealing with personalities and isn't scared to voice his opinion. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the job eventually.
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murphio
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hazy
23 Feb 2017, 12:57 PM
I'm a little bit irritated that we seem to have landed into a position where the ramblings of Kris Boyd are held up across various types of media as some kind barometer.

Hearts win: Boyd was talking pish
Hearts lose: Boyd was spot on.

To be used until Hearts win something, or the much more likely scenario that Cathro is booted.
Who said he was a barmoter? His point was perfectly valid but folk were shooting the messenger and not the message. There is far more to successful management than having tactical knowledge or devising a coaching programme. You need to be a strong personality who is able to transfer your knowledge on to those in your charge. You need to be able to motivate and inspire people. I have no doubt Ian Cathro has some kind of future in the game but a manager? Can't see it, to me he just doesn't have the personality for it.
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duffsticks
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Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 01:17 PM
Like Hearts, despite all the chat around youth development, they still ended up panic-signing a load of duds.

Hearts have been at the cutting edge of youth coaching for a while now, despite not having a lot of money to spend (a lot of what they spend is from fundraising). The general technical standard of the kids they're coaching is pretty high for the stature of the club. I have no idea the amount of input Levein has, but I gather it's a decent amount at least.
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tinsoldier
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Perhaps Cathro sought out Levein's advice at half-time as opposed to being summoned?

First managerial job, young guy, wouldn't be surprising if he did so especially as they were being outplayed.
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