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Managers Thread; Spain sack Lopetegui. Yes, really.
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Topic Started: 21 May 2016, 09:07 PM (998,497 Views)
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ChiliPepper
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5 Dec 2016, 04:27 PM
Post #1361
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I imagine if Cathro is going to struggle with man management then they'll give Levein a more prominent role to help with that sort of thing.
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littlegmbhoy
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5 Dec 2016, 04:29 PM
Post #1362
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- Novelty_Bauble
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:25 PM
Why would any Celtic fan want a Hearts manager to do well? Dunno if I wish them well.....they have a distinct dislike for anything Celtic but if they can get into 2nd pumping Sevco en route thats fine with me.
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Gonga
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5 Dec 2016, 04:39 PM
Post #1363
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- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:54 PM
- Luca
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:30 PM
- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:22 PM
Think the diets should be commended on this appointment if true. It may/may not work but this is exactly the type of appointment(s) that most clubs should try to go down veering away from the usual Calderwood, Strachan, McCall, McLeish, Craig Brown…blazer brigade who have progressed our game very little last 10/15 years. New face, new ideas, fresh outlook and fairly decent pedigree although Cathro has never been a number 1. Strachan out with 2 season success with us with us has simply regressed big time though his know it all attitude and wise cracks and pish he spouts pre/post games for Scotland.
Hartley, Cathro, Alex Neil to name 3 are good coaches who have new ideas who should be involved in the future of our game. Not Regan, Chairman’s we have never heard of & the usual old pals act in football management in this country.
Bold move from Hertz but think a good step in right direction.
Time will tell.
NB- Boyd really should shut up. I probably know as much about Ian Cathro as him but Valencia, Rafa Benitez & Dundee Utd seemed to think he has something so his to young and no experience pish is fairly typical of the attitude of most of our players and pundits.
His slight against Henke’s scoring record was embarrassing in a paper two weeks ago and really was deluded coupled with comments that actually make no sense today in any way.
He's a big fat fud
We tried a different approach with Deila but for us to go down that road with a set manager from that type of background when we are expected to win everything domestically does not give any young manager any time nor breathing space plus the fact RD was pretty clueless at European Level (tactics and formations) for us and players bought (arguably by him or Pistol) where sub standard for what we expect and where we were trying to get to. Scotland and indeed teams from 3/4th down in Scotland should source out people with new ideas and have the balls to hire them – like Hearts have done/doing. There will be slip ups but they are not under the microscope if they were at us or Sevco they would get more time to gel and get things across to players. Anyway good thinking from Hertz. Average attendance for the entire time the Huns were decomposing in the lower leagues was around mid 40k. 2 years of CL football under Lenny still wasn't enough to get it back to MoN and Strachan era times of 56k+. Lenny decides to go and with the the Huns not expected back for another year there is no way Lawwell would have been contemplating any real investment until then. Explains the signing policy and installing a coach + makeshift coaching team on much less wages.
Then you have a situation where no donestic competition is perceived as worthy and the players already at the club know they have it relatively easy as no decent signings are being made. The lack of footballing competition, and the lack of competition for places in the team was just as harmful as Ronnys lack of ability in the job.
If you are playing for a team where 10k fans are not coming anymore and guys like Carlton Cole and Kazim Richards are being brought in to pass time you are hardly going to feel like your career is on fire.
Brendan Rodgers is a world away from Ronny Deila, and thankfully so. It shows that you get what you pay for most of the time. Not only does Rodgers bring an experienced, and respected pedigree, he also brings the limelight, and players who looked a shadow of themselves last season are responding brilliantly. The added competition for places as players mature is also making us better.
All things considered the players that Ronny ruined so badly last year seem to have quickly moulded themselves in to one of the most exciting teams we have had in years. Can't have been that damaging a period for us after all.. 2 league wins, and a core of players who are going on to greater things.
And 5..4...3....2.....1. MUBO!
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littlegmbhoy
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5 Dec 2016, 04:58 PM
Post #1364
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- Gonga
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:39 PM
- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:54 PM
- Luca
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:30 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We tried a different approach with Deila but for us to go down that road with a set manager from that type of background when we are expected to win everything domestically does not give any young manager any time nor breathing space plus the fact RD was pretty clueless at European Level (tactics and formations) for us and players bought (arguably by him or Pistol) where sub standard for what we expect and where we were trying to get to. Scotland and indeed teams from 3/4th down in Scotland should source out people with new ideas and have the balls to hire them – like Hearts have done/doing. There will be slip ups but they are not under the microscope if they were at us or Sevco they would get more time to gel and get things across to players. Anyway good thinking from Hertz.
Average attendance for the entire time the Huns were decomposing in the lower leagues was around mid 40k. 2 years of CL football under Lenny still wasn't enough to get it back to MoN and Strachan era times of 56k+. Lenny decides to go and with the the Huns not expected back for another year there is no way Lawwell would have been contemplating any real investment until then. Explains the signing policy and installing a coach + makeshift coaching team on much less wages. Then you have a situation where no donestic competition is perceived as worthy and the players already at the club know they have it relatively easy as no decent signings are being made. The lack of footballing competition, and the lack of competition for places in the team was just as harmful as Ronnys lack of ability in the job. If you are playing for a team where 10k fans are not coming anymore and guys like Carlton Cole and Kazim Richards are being brought in to pass time you are hardly going to feel like your career is on fire. Brendan Rodgers is a world away from Ronny Deila, and thankfully so. It shows that you get what you pay for most of the time. Not only does Rodgers bring an experienced, and respected pedigree, he also brings the limelight, and players who looked a shadow of themselves last season are responding brilliantly. The added competition for places as players mature is also making us better. All things considered the players that Ronny ruined so badly last year seem to have quickly moulded themselves in to one of the most exciting teams we have had in years. Can't have been that damaging a period for us after all.. 2 league wins, and a core of players who are going on to greater things. And 5..4...3....2.....1. MUBO! Kinda think we are in agreement. We invested in some pure pish for (for me anyway) for wrong reason’s by a board who took liberties with a loyal support. For me they should have invested in a proper manager and reaped the rewards of getting into the CL and pulling further and further away from Sevco with the CL money on offer and exposure then come the players of a certain calibre on the back of that when Lenny left. Short sighted from the board and the reason quite a few got frustrated with them . Cheap option they went for as you pointed out. Crowds would have stayed the same 50k ish after Lenny left if they had invested and started process of pulling away earlier – they chose to go cheap. Albeit they have pulled a few back including myself with getting a proper manager in now 2 years after Lenny left.
Results for getting a cheap manager and gash results on back of that as you point out in results in poor players such as Richards, Cole, Johansen (okay for 12 months), Mubarak, Tonev to name a few….
2 years a bit late without Sevco in league and after Lenny. We are miles ahead just now but I do get feeling it could have been slightly sweeter earlier if the board had acted quicker instead of going cheap and unproven manager in charge of the biggest club in the country.
Still loving our position just now all the same & Brendan has pretty much same pool of players as you say with different results and performances.
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kellybhoy
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5 Dec 2016, 05:48 PM
Post #1365
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"HE’S probably not been this excited since FIFA 17 came out on PlayStation."
How bloody condescending!! Kind of ridiculing the guy. I would put this down to sour grapes. In effect he is saying "Aye he was in my class, but a big show-off, trying to make me look dumb."
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Mickeybhoy84
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5 Dec 2016, 06:33 PM
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The criticism of Cathro is just daft. He might not have been a player but he has been involved in football continuously for over a decade. He's worked with big clubs and with established international players. He's also worked closely with well respected managers who I'm sure will give him some pointers.
There are managers who are currently lauded by the SMSM who could only dream of having the coaching experience of Cathro.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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5 Dec 2016, 06:37 PM
Post #1367
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....give us a glimmer......
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- Mickeybhoy84
- 5 Dec 2016, 06:33 PM
The criticism of Cathro is just daft. He might not have been a player but he has been involved in football continuously for over a decade. He's worked with big clubs and with established international players. He's also worked closely with well respected managers who I'm sure will give him some pointers.
There are managers who are currently lauded by the SMSM who could only dream of having the coaching experience of Cathro. Exactly. Its a bold move and I'm interested to see how it goes.
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Mubo Loravcik
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5 Dec 2016, 06:51 PM
Post #1368
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- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:58 PM
- Gonga
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:39 PM
- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 03:54 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Average attendance for the entire time the Huns were decomposing in the lower leagues was around mid 40k. 2 years of CL football under Lenny still wasn't enough to get it back to MoN and Strachan era times of 56k+. Lenny decides to go and with the the Huns not expected back for another year there is no way Lawwell would have been contemplating any real investment until then. Explains the signing policy and installing a coach + makeshift coaching team on much less wages. Then you have a situation where no donestic competition is perceived as worthy and the players already at the club know they have it relatively easy as no decent signings are being made. The lack of footballing competition, and the lack of competition for places in the team was just as harmful as Ronnys lack of ability in the job. If you are playing for a team where 10k fans are not coming anymore and guys like Carlton Cole and Kazim Richards are being brought in to pass time you are hardly going to feel like your career is on fire. Brendan Rodgers is a world away from Ronny Deila, and thankfully so. It shows that you get what you pay for most of the time. Not only does Rodgers bring an experienced, and respected pedigree, he also brings the limelight, and players who looked a shadow of themselves last season are responding brilliantly. The added competition for places as players mature is also making us better. All things considered the players that Ronny ruined so badly last year seem to have quickly moulded themselves in to one of the most exciting teams we have had in years. Can't have been that damaging a period for us after all.. 2 league wins, and a core of players who are going on to greater things. And 5..4...3....2.....1. MUBO!
Kinda think we are in agreement. We invested in some pure pish for (for me anyway) for wrong reason’s by a board who took liberties with a loyal support. For me they should have invested in a proper manager and reaped the rewards of getting into the CL and pulling further and further away from Sevco with the CL money on offer and exposure then come the players of a certain calibre on the back of that when Lenny left. Short sighted from the board and the reason quite a few got frustrated with them . Cheap option they went for as you pointed out. Crowds would have stayed the same 50k ish after Lenny left if they had invested and started process of pulling away earlier – they chose to go cheap. Albeit they have pulled a few back including myself with getting a proper manager in now 2 years after Lenny left. Results for getting a cheap manager and gash results on back of that as you point out in results in poor players such as Richards, Cole, Johansen (okay for 12 months), Mubarak, Tonev to name a few…. 2 years a bit late without Sevco in league and after Lenny. We are miles ahead just now but I do get feeling it could have been slightly sweeter earlier if the board had acted quicker instead of going cheap and unproven manager in charge of the biggest club in the country. Still loving our position just now all the same & Brendan has pretty much same pool of players as you say with different results and performances. Have to disagree with you littlegmbhoy, Deila's reign was hugely damaging despite any attempt at revisionism.
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Hamster
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5 Dec 2016, 07:38 PM
Post #1369
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- Forza
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:20 PM
Various reporting for days now have Cathro and MacPhee as a done deal. No matter Hearts level of interest in them it still surprises me if that's the case.
I don't imagine Cathro will be on a mega wage, but it won't be sweeties either. He's at Newcastle. Clubs like that don't ordinarily release valued employees from their contracts without substantial compensation. Think it is fair to say we have become fairly well acquainted with how Ashley normally drives a hard bargain.
Similarly if MacPhee is wanted for the SFA Performance Director role, this is a six figure salary role, probably in the £200,000 a year bracket. I'd be amazed if Hearts could offer that to an assistant manager.
Of course the Levein connection may make Cathro a shoe in, but it seems stumping up the cash is a hurdle not many seem to be considering. Hearts are awash with cash right now, by Scottish football standards.
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MartyBhoyCfc
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5 Dec 2016, 07:39 PM
Post #1370
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- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:29 PM
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- 5 Dec 2016, 04:25 PM
Why would any Celtic fan want a Hearts manager to do well?
Dunno if I wish them well.....they have a distinct dislike for anything Celtic but if they can get into 2nd pumping Sevco en route thats fine with me. Hate Hearts with a passion. A truly horrible club. eff them
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cp7
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5 Dec 2016, 10:00 PM
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Interesting time to be a Hearts fan, hope he succeeds (to an extent)
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suzieghirl10
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5 Dec 2016, 10:03 PM
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As long as they are above Sevco
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Quiet Assasin
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5 Dec 2016, 10:05 PM
Post #1373
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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- Hamster
- 5 Dec 2016, 07:38 PM
- Forza
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:20 PM
Various reporting for days now have Cathro and MacPhee as a done deal. No matter Hearts level of interest in them it still surprises me if that's the case.
I don't imagine Cathro will be on a mega wage, but it won't be sweeties either. He's at Newcastle. Clubs like that don't ordinarily release valued employees from their contracts without substantial compensation. Think it is fair to say we have become fairly well acquainted with how Ashley normally drives a hard bargain.
Similarly if MacPhee is wanted for the SFA Performance Director role, this is a six figure salary role, probably in the £200,000 a year bracket. I'd be amazed if Hearts could offer that to an assistant manager.
Of course the Levein connection may make Cathro a shoe in, but it seems stumping up the cash is a hurdle not many seem to be considering.
Hearts are awash with cash right now, by Scottish football standards. The guys who lost out in the CVA must be delighted with that news.
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riddlehouse
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5 Dec 2016, 10:10 PM
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- AG67
- 5 Dec 2016, 12:05 PM
I just wonder if Cathro will be another version of Andy Roxburgh, fine when it comes to theorizing about coaching/tactics but maybe a bit like the scientist who is fine under laboratory conditions, but can't function in the real world. Not saying that will happen with Cathro at Hearts, I think it's a brave move on the face of it, but whether Cathro will sink or swim, who knows. A lot of guys are more suited to being a coach/assistant/advisor to the main man than being the guy at the top, Tommy Burns was a perfect example of that. Cathro seems to be very well respected in the game, but whether that will be enough to make him successful remains to be seen. There is also the question of whether it really is Levein who runs the show at Hearts anyway. Burns lost one game all season. Slightly unfair.
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CMC88
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5 Dec 2016, 10:12 PM
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- Ben Kenobi
- 5 Dec 2016, 09:25 AM
I'm with Hamster on this one, would like to see Cathro do well. Not too well obviously. Me too, anything to stop sevco finishing 2nd. It's the new 1st dontcha know?
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modest mouse
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5 Dec 2016, 10:14 PM
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- Hamster
- 5 Dec 2016, 07:38 PM
- Forza
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:20 PM
Various reporting for days now have Cathro and MacPhee as a done deal. No matter Hearts level of interest in them it still surprises me if that's the case.
I don't imagine Cathro will be on a mega wage, but it won't be sweeties either. He's at Newcastle. Clubs like that don't ordinarily release valued employees from their contracts without substantial compensation. Think it is fair to say we have become fairly well acquainted with how Ashley normally drives a hard bargain.
Similarly if MacPhee is wanted for the SFA Performance Director role, this is a six figure salary role, probably in the £200,000 a year bracket. I'd be amazed if Hearts could offer that to an assistant manager.
Of course the Levein connection may make Cathro a shoe in, but it seems stumping up the cash is a hurdle not many seem to be considering.
Hearts are awash with cash right now, by Scottish football standards. I was wondering about this, because I thought they'd plough most of their dough into construction of the new stand. Actually thought that might have been part of Neilson's thinking in jumping ship when he did.
I think it's a bold appointment by Hearts and I'm interested in seeing how it goes. If it's a success, which I think it might be, then you have to applaud them for it.
When I say success, distant second is fine by me...
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tarff26
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5 Dec 2016, 10:33 PM
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That Boyd article is outrageous. Stone Age stuff from a bitter fud
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littlegmbhoy
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5 Dec 2016, 10:41 PM
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- Mubo Loravcik
- 5 Dec 2016, 06:51 PM
- littlegmbhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:58 PM
- Gonga
- 5 Dec 2016, 04:39 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deepAnd 5..4...3....2.....1. MUBO!
Kinda think we are in agreement. We invested in some pure pish for (for me anyway) for wrong reason’s by a board who took liberties with a loyal support. For me they should have invested in a proper manager and reaped the rewards of getting into the CL and pulling further and further away from Sevco with the CL money on offer and exposure then come the players of a certain calibre on the back of that when Lenny left. Short sighted from the board and the reason quite a few got frustrated with them . Cheap option they went for as you pointed out. Crowds would have stayed the same 50k ish after Lenny left if they had invested and started process of pulling away earlier – they chose to go cheap. Albeit they have pulled a few back including myself with getting a proper manager in now 2 years after Lenny left. Results for getting a cheap manager and gash results on back of that as you point out in results in poor players such as Richards, Cole, Johansen (okay for 12 months), Mubarak, Tonev to name a few…. 2 years a bit late without Sevco in league and after Lenny. We are miles ahead just now but I do get feeling it could have been slightly sweeter earlier if the board had acted quicker instead of going cheap and unproven manager in charge of the biggest club in the country. Still loving our position just now all the same & Brendan has pretty much same pool of players as you say with different results and performances.
Have to disagree with you littlegmbhoy, Deila's reign was hugely damaging despite any attempt at revisionism. Maybe not been clear enough Deila was a poor time for us supporters and club nothing changes that.
Board went cheap and droves patched season books and attending. Now have proper manager who knows hoa to motivate players and engage fans.
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Haitch
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5 Dec 2016, 10:49 PM
Post #1379
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- Mickeybhoy84
- 5 Dec 2016, 06:33 PM
The criticism of Cathro is just daft. He might not have been a player but he has been involved in football continuously for over a decade. He's worked with big clubs and with established international players. He's also worked closely with well respected managers who I'm sure will give him some pointers.
There are managers who are currently lauded by the SMSM who could only dream of having the coaching experience of Cathro. Aye but has he ever been a city trader?
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One sharp cookie
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5 Dec 2016, 10:51 PM
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- kellybhoy
- 5 Dec 2016, 05:48 PM
"HE’S probably not been this excited since FIFA 17 came out on PlayStation." How bloody condescending!! Kind of ridiculing the guy. I would put this down to sour grapes. In effect he is saying "Aye he was in my class, but a big show-off, trying to make me look dumb." I'm almost 100% certain the PlayStation reference would have come from the article's ghost writer rather than Boyd. It's a weak attempt at humour to highlight Cathro's age rather than anything sinister.
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