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Managers Thread; Spain sack Lopetegui. Yes, really.
Topic Started: 21 May 2016, 09:07 PM (998,112 Views)
Fortune Teller
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Forza
17 May 2018, 09:54 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:38 AM
idyllwild
17 May 2018, 09:32 AM
Can see why clubs punt Moyes, Allardyce etc in the close season. Clean start, better football, sell STs. All sounds good, except not everyone can win. Few months in, next year’s WHU and Everton will drag these dinosaurs back in to save them. Then punt them once the job is done.

Only mistake is giving them long-term contracts.
Was watching Sky’s Sunday Supplement the other day and a journalist made the point that, outside the top six clubs in England, everyone else is one bad season or one bad managerial appointment away from relegation. The reality is that another 8 or 9 clubs will almost certainly part with managers during the course of next season at the first hint of problems. But I agree, the summer months are a time for optimism and fresh starts. Nothing worse as a fan than starting a new campaign with a manager or group of players you’ve already lost faith in.
A lot of it is perception and not reality due to the insufferable nature of the fans of these clubs.

West Ham's support and ownership think they are above managers like Davie Moyes. This is despite the fact they've not really done anything since Trevor Brooking hung up his boots to even get close to justifying that notion.
On the other hand, why shouldn't they aspire to get a better manager who will get them higher up the table? Ambition to be better is the lifeblood for teams like that. Having a manager who will likely get you finishing somewhere between 12th and 16th by playing boring functional football doesn't exactly get the juices flowing
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One sharp cookie
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Forza
17 May 2018, 09:54 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:38 AM
idyllwild
17 May 2018, 09:32 AM
Can see why clubs punt Moyes, Allardyce etc in the close season. Clean start, better football, sell STs. All sounds good, except not everyone can win. Few months in, next year’s WHU and Everton will drag these dinosaurs back in to save them. Then punt them once the job is done.

Only mistake is giving them long-term contracts.
Was watching Sky’s Sunday Supplement the other day and a journalist made the point that, outside the top six clubs in England, everyone else is one bad season or one bad managerial appointment away from relegation. The reality is that another 8 or 9 clubs will almost certainly part with managers during the course of next season at the first hint of problems. But I agree, the summer months are a time for optimism and fresh starts. Nothing worse as a fan than starting a new campaign with a manager or group of players you’ve already lost faith in.
A lot of it is perception and not reality due to the insufferable nature of the fans of these clubs.

West Ham's support and ownership think they are above managers like Davie Moyes. This is despite the fact they've not really done anything since Trevor Brooking hung up his boots to even get close to justifying that notion.
Sure, but if the West Ham fans are bored by the football they’re watching (and I know one of the specific criticisms they’ve had of Moyes is him leaving out flair players like Lanzini to accommodate a more pragmatic approach), then what’s wrong with them wanting a change? It’s one thing West Ham expecting to win the league. But expecting the manager to play entertaining football isn’t getting ideas above their station.
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littlegmbhoy
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MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Dont follow engurland football but that is a major left field appointment.....

Brendan not good enough according to lot os people down souff but a geezer who has litrerally not managed.,..

Baffling.


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littlegmbhoy
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM
MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Dont follow engurland football but that is a major left field appointment.....

Brendan not good enough according to lot os people down souff but a geezer who has litrerally not managed.,..

Baffling.


Why? He played for them for years and been working with Pep for a good bit. Davie Hannah would be a major left field appointment.
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One sharp cookie
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17 May 2018, 09:58 AM
Forza
17 May 2018, 09:54 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:38 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
A lot of it is perception and not reality due to the insufferable nature of the fans of these clubs.

West Ham's support and ownership think they are above managers like Davie Moyes. This is despite the fact they've not really done anything since Trevor Brooking hung up his boots to even get close to justifying that notion.
On the other hand, why shouldn't they aspire to get a better manager who will get them higher up the table? Ambition to be better is the lifeblood for teams like that. Having a manager who will likely get you finishing somewhere between 12th and 16th by playing boring functional football doesn't exactly get the juices flowing
Correct. I’m sure a lot of fans down south must have looked at our decision to sack Deila after he’d won the title two years on the trot and thought we were being unrealistic in our expectations. But Rodgers came in and immediately elevated us to a higher level, starting with qualification for the group stages of the CL. Telling West Ham and Everton fans they should be content with mediocrity - especially when these clubs are spending tens of millions of pounds on players and charging supporters a fortune to watch them - isn’t feasible.
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Forza
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One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM
Forza
17 May 2018, 09:54 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:38 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
A lot of it is perception and not reality due to the insufferable nature of the fans of these clubs.

West Ham's support and ownership think they are above managers like Davie Moyes. This is despite the fact they've not really done anything since Trevor Brooking hung up his boots to even get close to justifying that notion.
Sure, but if the West Ham fans are bored by the football they’re watching (and I know one of the specific criticisms they’ve had of Moyes is him leaving out flair players like Lanzini to accommodate a more pragmatic approach), then what’s wrong with them wanting a change? It’s one thing West Ham expecting to win the league. But expecting the manager to play entertaining football isn’t getting ideas above their station.
They had that with Bilic. He was considered cool enough for them, and passionate and entertaining, and this, and that.

And then they turned on him in a six month spell and didn't want him, and brought in the pragmatic choice. Rinse and repeat.

They are too blinded by the TV cash to realise the treadmill they are on.

It's tiresome.
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One sharp cookie
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Forza
17 May 2018, 10:09 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM
Forza
17 May 2018, 09:54 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Sure, but if the West Ham fans are bored by the football they’re watching (and I know one of the specific criticisms they’ve had of Moyes is him leaving out flair players like Lanzini to accommodate a more pragmatic approach), then what’s wrong with them wanting a change? It’s one thing West Ham expecting to win the league. But expecting the manager to play entertaining football isn’t getting ideas above their station.
They had that with Bilic. He was considered cool enough for them, and passionate and entertaining, and this, and that.

And then they turned on him in a six month spell and didn't want him, and brought in the pragmatic choice. Rinse and repeat.

They are too blinded by the TV cash to realise the treadmill they are on.

It's tiresome.
Not sure the fans did turn on Bilic, at least not until the very end when they were in freefall. And they certainly weren’t clamouring for a pragmatic replacement. It’s a tough one, I just feel generally that fans should be allowed to wish for their club to aspire to be the best they can possibly be. If Leicester City had appointed Sam Allardyce instead of Claudio Ranieri, they wouldn’t have achieved the greatest league title triumph probably in history. Having said that, the fact Ranieri was binned the next year at the first sign of a downward spiral and Leicester now have the ultimate pragmatic coach in Claude Puel speaks volumes about what the owners of these clubs really care about.
Edited by One sharp cookie, 17 May 2018, 10:37 AM.
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Forza
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One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 10:37 AM
Forza
17 May 2018, 10:09 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They had that with Bilic. He was considered cool enough for them, and passionate and entertaining, and this, and that.

And then they turned on him in a six month spell and didn't want him, and brought in the pragmatic choice. Rinse and repeat.

They are too blinded by the TV cash to realise the treadmill they are on.

It's tiresome.
Not sure the fans did turn on Bilic, at least not until the very end when they were in freefall. And they certainly weren’t clamouring for a pragmatic replacement. It’s a tough one, I just feel generally that fans should be allowed to wish for their club to aspire to be the best they can possibly be. If Leicester City had appointed Sam Allardyce instead of Claudio Ranieri, they wouldn’t have achieved the greatest league title triumph probably in history. Having said that, the fact Ranieri was binned the next year at the first sign of a downward spiral and Leicester now have the ultimate pragmatic coach in Claude Puel speaks volumes about what the owners of these clubs really care about.
Your final point sums it all up.

West Ham have won four major honours in their entire 122 year history. Two under Ron Greenwood, and two under John Lyall, who also achieved their highest ever league placing of third. One effing 3rd place finish in their history!

Each of them were there for a minimum of 13 years.

The game may have changed, and my argument is that it has changed far too much. That's what makes them insufferable.

Maybe give your next manager more than 10 minutes to achieve something and you might get on a bit better. Stop agitating like you are Real Madrid, like you won't tolerate failure when it is all you have known for the vast majority of your entire existence.
Edited by Forza, 17 May 2018, 10:48 AM.
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Snowy Malone
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popeyed
17 May 2018, 10:05 AM
littlegmbhoy
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM
MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Dont follow engurland football but that is a major left field appointment.....

Brendan not good enough according to lot os people down souff but a geezer who has litrerally not managed.,..

Baffling.


Why? He played for them for years and been working with Pep for a good bit. Davie Hannah would be a major left field appointment.
That genuinely made me laugh there!!!.I now have mental image of Hannah being unveiled at the Emirates... :o
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littlegmbhoy
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popeyed
17 May 2018, 10:05 AM
littlegmbhoy
17 May 2018, 09:59 AM
MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Dont follow engurland football but that is a major left field appointment.....

Brendan not good enough according to lot os people down souff but a geezer who has litrerally not managed.,..

Baffling.


Why? He played for them for years and been working with Pep for a good bit. Davie Hannah would be a major left field appointment.
Arsenal is a huge job and he lacks literally any first hand managerial experience. There board relatively speaking have their head screwed on and presumably want to kick on from years under the Wenger induced duldrums (trophy wise).

Arteta is not the guy for that.

Ancelotti, Allegri, Garde have all seen it and doen it to an extent...much better

Enrique is wanting major paper to take the job so much so they alledgedly reached out and shat it to talk to him. Wages were mental seemingly.


Baffling going for Arteta. End in tears.
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Gonga
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Forza
17 May 2018, 10:43 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 10:37 AM
Forza
17 May 2018, 10:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not sure the fans did turn on Bilic, at least not until the very end when they were in freefall. And they certainly weren’t clamouring for a pragmatic replacement. It’s a tough one, I just feel generally that fans should be allowed to wish for their club to aspire to be the best they can possibly be. If Leicester City had appointed Sam Allardyce instead of Claudio Ranieri, they wouldn’t have achieved the greatest league title triumph probably in history. Having said that, the fact Ranieri was binned the next year at the first sign of a downward spiral and Leicester now have the ultimate pragmatic coach in Claude Puel speaks volumes about what the owners of these clubs really care about.
Your final point sums it all up.

West Ham have won four major honours in their entire 122 year history. Two under Ron Greenwood, and two under John Lyall, who also achieved their highest ever league placing of third. One effing 3rd place finish in their history!

Each of them were there for a minimum of 13 years.

The game may have changed, and my argument is that it has changed far too much. That's what makes them insufferable.

Maybe give your next manager more than 10 minutes to achieve something and you might get on a bit better. Stop agitating like you are Real Madrid, like you won't tolerate failure when it is all you have known for the vast majority of your entire existence.
Only the very best managers are able to get a season or two to gel, and usually because clubs that already have great players afford them that time.

From the 7th spot in the EPL and below it’s either a season of relative mediocrity/survival or a relegation battle.

If it’s looking like a relation battle then these clubs have the money to make a snap decision and bring someone new in if the players are not responding. It’s not like the old days when players are just happy to have a contract, outside of the top clubs they hold more power than most managers.

On the flip side, even if these managers get fired they get a ton of cash and it rarely damages their reputation too much as it’s accepted how volatile these positions can be. Some managers (like Allardyce) are good enough to guarantee survival, but it’s common sense to reboot if you can afford a more attractive proposition.
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Forza
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Gonga
17 May 2018, 01:15 PM
Forza
17 May 2018, 10:43 AM
One sharp cookie
17 May 2018, 10:37 AM

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Your final point sums it all up.

West Ham have won four major honours in their entire 122 year history. Two under Ron Greenwood, and two under John Lyall, who also achieved their highest ever league placing of third. One effing 3rd place finish in their history!

Each of them were there for a minimum of 13 years.

The game may have changed, and my argument is that it has changed far too much. That's what makes them insufferable.

Maybe give your next manager more than 10 minutes to achieve something and you might get on a bit better. Stop agitating like you are Real Madrid, like you won't tolerate failure when it is all you have known for the vast majority of your entire existence.
Only the very best managers are able to get a season or two to gel, and usually because clubs that already have great players afford them that time.

From the 7th spot in the EPL and below it’s either a season of relative mediocrity/survival or a relegation battle.

If it’s looking like a relation battle then these clubs have the money to make a snap decision and bring someone new in if the players are not responding. It’s not like the old days when players are just happy to have a contract, outside of the top clubs they hold more power than most managers.

On the flip side, even if these managers get fired they get a ton of cash and it rarely damages their reputation too much as it’s accepted how volatile these positions can be. Some managers (like Allardyce) are good enough to guarantee survival, but it’s common sense to reboot if you can afford a more attractive proposition.
Then they are destined to do absolutely nothing more than repeat the cycle in ever decreasing time periods.

If that's what they find exciting, then more fool them.

They are run by complete idiots. I take great delight in seeing what complete nightmare they'll involve that club in next.
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Gonga
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Forza
17 May 2018, 01:21 PM
Gonga
17 May 2018, 01:15 PM
Forza
17 May 2018, 10:43 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Only the very best managers are able to get a season or two to gel, and usually because clubs that already have great players afford them that time.

From the 7th spot in the EPL and below it’s either a season of relative mediocrity/survival or a relegation battle.

If it’s looking like a relation battle then these clubs have the money to make a snap decision and bring someone new in if the players are not responding. It’s not like the old days when players are just happy to have a contract, outside of the top clubs they hold more power than most managers.

On the flip side, even if these managers get fired they get a ton of cash and it rarely damages their reputation too much as it’s accepted how volatile these positions can be. Some managers (like Allardyce) are good enough to guarantee survival, but it’s common sense to reboot if you can afford a more attractive proposition.
Then they are destined to do absolutely nothing more than repeat the cycle in ever decreasing time periods.

If that's what they find exciting, then more fool them.

They are run by complete idiots. I take great delight in seeing what complete nightmare they'll involve that club in next.
For a lot of these fans just surviving in the Top division is good, they just didn’t happen to grow up supporting a rich enough club to be successful. It doesn’t seem like much of a reason to blame the fans.

I think it’s easy to have a high horse when you support a dominant club, and if recent seasons are anything to go by some of our own fan take winning for granted.

Dominance usually does come down to financial power rather than one particular manager or player, something we benefit from greatly. Plenty of clubs are destined to never experience what we get to regardless of who they have in charge.
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Forza
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Gonga
17 May 2018, 01:28 PM
Forza
17 May 2018, 01:21 PM
Gonga
17 May 2018, 01:15 PM

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Then they are destined to do absolutely nothing more than repeat the cycle in ever decreasing time periods.

If that's what they find exciting, then more fool them.

They are run by complete idiots. I take great delight in seeing what complete nightmare they'll involve that club in next.
For a lot of these fans just surviving in the Top division is good, they just didn’t happen to grow up supporting a rich enough club to be successful. It doesn’t seem like much of a reason to blame the fans.

I think it’s easy to have a high horse when you support a dominant club, and if recent seasons are anything to go by some of our own fan take winning for granted.

Dominance usually does come down to financial power rather than one particular manager or player, something we benefit from greatly. Plenty of clubs are destined to never experience what we get to regardless of who they have in charge.
At what point did any of this become about Celtic? We are where we are because people have taken long term decisions, sometimes painful ones, about the overall structure of the club, regardless of the environment we find ourselves in.

This is solely about the now, now, now fetish of a fanbase (and no doubt ownership), who seem to think that all they need is the next hip manager to get to the "next level". It is almost always nonsense because they invariably end up with nothing other than yet another new manager.

This is a mob who in the last six month alone have had mass on-pitch fuddery because they went a couple of goals down to Burnley at home. They produced a pish ridden bedsheet fan banner saying that Hitler was only the second worst thing to hit East London after their current owners. :cuckoo: It's absolutely hysterical nonsense.

There is a complete lack of perspective by fans of these clubs, and West Ham are pretty high up on that list.

Best letting them believe what they want. They fail to see they're on the treadmill and it's very amusing.
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Butters
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16 May 2018, 11:31 PM
MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Would be a bonkers appointment. Any club of stature appointing as manager someone who has never held the top job and have just a limited amount of coaching experience is asking for trouble.

And I include our appointment of Lenny in that assessment.
Has anyone said Pep yet :ph43r:

I thought Barca were bonkers appointing him when they did, when Mourinho was available shows what I know :lol:
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The only reason relegation is treated with such abject fear by so many owners is that they don't budget for it.

Three team from fourteen (realistically) will go down every season. That means, outwith a spectacular implosion from one of the big six, you have:

-

less than a 30% chance of lasting 5 consecutive season in the EPL, and less than 9% chance of making it to a decade without a relegation.

Outwith Everton's gravity-defying 65 years without dipping into the Championship, the average number of EPL seasons for a side outwith the top six is 4.4.
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MartyBhoyCfc
16 May 2018, 11:25 PM
Arsenal to have talks with Arteta on Thursday over managers job. Can see that ending well
Think it's a mental appointment.

Taking away the games recently where the atmosphere has been decent due to the fans saying farewell to Wenger the general feeling all season has been one of unrest - it was described as toxic a couple of months ago. Given the names being mentioned - Emery, Simeone, Enrique, Allegri, Sarri - appointing Arteta is underwhelming at best.

I'm not writing the guy off, he might turn out to be a revelation and an excellent manager. However a poor transfer window and a poor start to the season will see the fans turn on him and the board very very quickly. An experienced, been there and won it manager would be a much safer bet for Arsenal.
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Dannybhoy95
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Forza
17 May 2018, 10:43 AM
Stop agitating like you are Real Madrid, like you won't tolerate failure when it is all you have known for the vast majority of your entire existence.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Complains about arrogance. Retorts with the most arrogant remark in the thread.
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remy mcswain
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It's like all those Charlton fans who wanted rid of Curbishley so they could get someone to take them to the next level.
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remy mcswain
17 May 2018, 02:22 PM
It's like all those Charlton fans who wanted rid of Curbishley so they could get someone to take them to the next level.
Football fans always want better. Sometimes it works like Deila to Rodgers. Other times it's Strachan to Mowbray.
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