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Managers Thread; Spain sack Lopetegui. Yes, really.
Topic Started: 21 May 2016, 09:07 PM (998,317 Views)
Tubbytubthumper
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
14 Oct 2017, 11:43 AM
Tubbytubthumper
14 Oct 2017, 11:22 AM
Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
14 Oct 2017, 11:01 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
yep he need to be removed from any contact with other human beings.....

Listen, What MacKay said and did was wrong and I don't think anyone has said it is right - how could they.

However we are talking 3/4 years ago. Is it unreasonable to think that MacKay may have changed as a person? Realised that he was wrong, Realised that he had these faults. acknowledged that he needed to change his views. What he did was a symptom of ignorance, similar to all discriminatory actions and language. Is it unreasonable to think that he has challenged those ignorant views he had held.

The world has moved on, MacKay seems to have grown and moved on, surely we all need to move on from this too.
I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.

Even if (and this is a big 'if') we assume that Mackay is genuinely remorseful, and not just sorry he got caught, he doesn't get special points for realizing what everyone else already knew without having to be shamed into it, nor does it undo the damage he did to his own reputation and the toxicity that is attached to him. That this will follow him for the rest of his career, such as it is, is his own damn fault. He is not the victim here: he knew what he was doing was wrong, and he did it anyway. There are consequences to that, and one consequence is that he's not an appropriate figure to represent Scottish football.
i haven't put words in your mouth I have made assumptions onwhat you have posted.....simlar to what you have done too. I have never said MacKay was the victim. I clearly stated what he did was wrong - i am not scoring points one way or the other.

If MacKay doesn't get the job that should be based on him being a shampooe manager, rather than something he did 3/4 years ago and has been at least trying to rehabilitate himself for since then.
Edit: I have no understanding as to the mind of MacKay either at that time or this so cannot possibly confirm as to whether he has actually meant what he said either then or whether he is genuinely remorseful now....However he has at least taken action to look at the ignorance of his comments. Does he deserve credit for that? Depends on your viewpoint, however I think that if someone hold a long-term view that is flawed, discriminatory, wrong....incendiary even and changes these views through time and being challenged on his ignorant views and actually does something (if it isn't a hollow action) to change the viewpoints of others then surely he must deserve credit for that? Otherwise what is the point of releasing anyone from prison for hate crimes, what is the point of an apology?

Its easy to say that he should never work in his chosen profession again (again not saying you have said this) but then why have any sort of rehabilitation or remorse. People grow throughout their lives, I include everyone in that, we all change, and grow. Was he wrong...absolutely, should he be given a chance to move on from that....I believe so. Should he be Scotland Manager...? Hell no - he is pish!
Edited by Tubbytubthumper, 14 Oct 2017, 12:18 PM.
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brian mclair's hair
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Muzz
14 Oct 2017, 10:13 AM
danthestan
14 Oct 2017, 10:08 AM
Clarke confirmed at Killie
That's some appointment for Killie.
Think they've done a great job securing him

Maybe some folk down there will actually go and see them!
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Puskas
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At the very least McKay's past behaviour should have completely ruled him out of ever being Scotland manager, interim or not. Shameful from the SFA., not for the first time.
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33-rpm
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brian mclair's hair
14 Oct 2017, 12:27 PM
Muzz
14 Oct 2017, 10:13 AM
danthestan
14 Oct 2017, 10:08 AM
Clarke confirmed at Killie
That's some appointment for Killie.
Think they've done a great job securing him

Maybe some folk down there will actually go and see them!
Yup, that's a massive appointment by Kilmarnock. Well done to them.

Assuming he's not in charge for today's six pointer against Thistle his first two games in charge are at Ibrox and Celtic Park. Probably what the phrase "baptism of fire" was coined for.

Still want them to go down.
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hazy
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I think people might be overstating the managerial prowess of Steve Clarke. Clearly a good assistant manager but his managerial record is sacked by West Brom and sacked by Reading.

His pedigree for the top job is about on par with what Lee Clark’s was.
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Pussyfoot
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hazy
14 Oct 2017, 12:50 PM
I think people might be overstating the managerial prowess of Steve Clarke. Clearly a good assistant manager but his managerial record is sacked by West Brom and sacked by Reading.

His pedigree for the top job is about on par with what Lee Clark’s was.
Think there was a shout or two for Steve to get the Scotland position, I'm in agreement with yourself on this one. Like the guy, he was a fine player but he's got a lot to prove.
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idyllwild


tinsoldier
14 Oct 2017, 11:55 AM
McKay will take temporary charge of Scotland for one totally meaningless game. He won't be the new national team manager.

I still hope that the SFA look outside the normal press-produced "front runners" and surprise us with a Hiddink or even an Allardyce.

Moyes it is then.
Sorry mate, but right now he is the new national team manager.
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33-rpm
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hazy
14 Oct 2017, 12:50 PM
I think people might be overstating the managerial prowess of Steve Clarke. Clearly a good assistant manager but his managerial record is sacked by West Brom and sacked by Reading.

His pedigree for the top job is about on par with what Lee Clark’s was.
Nobody is saying he's Jose Mourinho, but for Kilmarnock to secure a guy who was managing in the EPL fairly recently - he took West Brom to eighth in that league - and who was being mentioned as a potential Celtic manager is a coup for them.

We don't always have to talk down the Scottish game.
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
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Clarke is definitely a big coup for Killie. A lot of folk were pitching him for Celtic not that long ago!

I'm not sure any manager can achieve much more than a bottom 4 finish with them, given their squad and general air of shampooeyness. He's taking a risk here; if this goes wrong he won't be getting another job above League One for a long time.
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Ponder Stibbons
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To those claiming McKay's past behaviour should exclude him from ever representing Scotland, should Leigh Griffiths' past behaviour exclude him from ever representing Scotland too? Or Celtic, for that matter?
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Dempele
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Getting Clarke is a good move for Killie IMO.
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LambertandButler
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Wonder what they've promised Clarke. Good appointment but don't see what's in it for him unless they're offering investment.
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idyllwild
14 Oct 2017, 12:56 PM
tinsoldier
14 Oct 2017, 11:55 AM
McKay will take temporary charge of Scotland for one totally meaningless game. He won't be the new national team manager.

I still hope that the SFA look outside the normal press-produced "front runners" and surprise us with a Hiddink or even an Allardyce.

Moyes it is then.
Sorry mate, but right now he is the new national team manager.
Appointed on 'Show Racism the Red Card' week as well

:lmao:
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maestromichael
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Some of the stuff on here beggars belief. Mackay is now a paragon of inclusion because he did an awareness course and is made head of developing our youngsters (see also Harvey Weinstein, treatment for sex addiction and other obvious attempts by a desparate publicist to save a career).

Big Sam was really a victim of entrapment as though his previous shenanigans with his son hadn't happened (see any Panorama football specials). We're told he was just "unlucky" to get caught when so many others have also been at it (see the misfortunes of deidco and the travesty of their harmless attempts to navigate the minefield of modern taxation being unfairly exposed).

Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances but within limits. What's next for the SFA? Lance Armstrong for the new national fitness coachand wee Bob Diamond as the new CFO?
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sevilliano
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moyes interview last night just shocking the guy comes across as a dick
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tinsoldier
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idyllwild
14 Oct 2017, 12:56 PM
tinsoldier
14 Oct 2017, 11:55 AM
McKay will take temporary charge of Scotland for one totally meaningless game. He won't be the new national team manager.

I still hope that the SFA look outside the normal press-produced "front runners" and surprise us with a Hiddink or even an Allardyce.

Moyes it is then.
Sorry mate, but right now he is the new national team manager.
He is. But nobody should be in the least bit surprised, seeing as the same board appointed him performance director. They've looked around for 10 minutes and though "Ah, there's Malky. He'll do for a few weeks".

It's nonsense, but as I say to be expected. It shouldn't stop players wanting to turn up, or supporters boycotting the game. There is a bigger picture here and it's the long-term future of the national side, who (hopefully) will be under a coach/manager that can really make a difference.
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Tubbytubthumper
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maestromichael
14 Oct 2017, 02:29 PM
Some of the stuff on here beggars belief. Mackay is now a paragon of inclusion because he did an awareness course and is made head of developing our youngsters (see also Harvey Weinstein, treatment for sex addiction and other obvious attempts by a desparate publicist to save a career).

Big Sam was really a victim of entrapment as though his previous shenanigans with his son hadn't happened (see any Panorama football specials). We're told he was just "unlucky" to get caught when so many others have also been at it (see the misfortunes of deidco and the travesty of their harmless attempts to navigate the minefield of modern taxation being unfairly exposed).

Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances but within limits. What's next for the SFA? Lance Armstrong for the new national fitness coachand wee Bob Diamond as the new CFO?
Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances
Yeah i see that.....

I am not saying McKay should be given the Scotland job, I just don't think his previous actions should be taken into account when his actions since should be ignored.

Just my opinion and I have said my bit...will leave it there[/b]
Edited by Tubbytubthumper, 14 Oct 2017, 02:40 PM.
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modest mouse
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Ponder Stibbons
14 Oct 2017, 01:16 PM
To those claiming McKay's past behaviour should exclude him from ever representing Scotland, should Leigh Griffiths' past behaviour exclude him from ever representing Scotland too? Or Celtic, for that matter?
This is actually a fair point. Going on what has been said about Malky Mackay, we should have binned Leigh Griffiths and he should never have been seen in professional football again.

I don't think you'll ever hear anyone defend Mackay's words and actions, and rightly so. Nobody truly knows how remorseful or otherwise Mackay actually is, but we can only go on his subsequent words and actions.

It boils down to the whole rehabilitation argument. If someone behaves in a discriminatory fashion, or commits some form of shameful act, should they be allowed the opportunity to rehabilitate themselves?

Granted, in many other walks of life someone who made the comments that Mackay made would be extremely unlikely to get near the same sort of role again. But the same applies to Leigh Griffiths and none of us are talking about him now either.
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maestromichael
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Tubbytubthumper
14 Oct 2017, 02:39 PM
maestromichael
14 Oct 2017, 02:29 PM
Some of the stuff on here beggars belief. Mackay is now a paragon of inclusion because he did an awareness course and is made head of developing our youngsters (see also Harvey Weinstein, treatment for sex addiction and other obvious attempts by a desparate publicist to save a career).

Big Sam was really a victim of entrapment as though his previous shenanigans with his son hadn't happened (see any Panorama football specials). We're told he was just "unlucky" to get caught when so many others have also been at it (see the misfortunes of deidco and the travesty of their harmless attempts to navigate the minefield of modern taxation being unfairly exposed).

Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances but within limits. What's next for the SFA? Lance Armstrong for the new national fitness coachand wee Bob Diamond as the new CFO?
Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances
Yeah i see that.....

I am not saying McKay should be given the Scotland job, I just don't think his previous actions should be taken into account when his actions since should be ignored.

Just my opinion and I have said my bit...will leave it there[/b]
Nothing interested in getting involved in an unnecessary stramash either and actually take your point re Mackay on board but as someone who has spent 6 years working with ex-offenders as head of an Integrated offender Management team what you can see about my attitude to second chances is limited at best.
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Tubbytubthumper
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maestromichael
14 Oct 2017, 02:59 PM
Tubbytubthumper
14 Oct 2017, 02:39 PM
maestromichael
14 Oct 2017, 02:29 PM
Some of the stuff on here beggars belief. Mackay is now a paragon of inclusion because he did an awareness course and is made head of developing our youngsters (see also Harvey Weinstein, treatment for sex addiction and other obvious attempts by a desparate publicist to save a career).

Big Sam was really a victim of entrapment as though his previous shenanigans with his son hadn't happened (see any Panorama football specials). We're told he was just "unlucky" to get caught when so many others have also been at it (see the misfortunes of deidco and the travesty of their harmless attempts to navigate the minefield of modern taxation being unfairly exposed).

Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances but within limits. What's next for the SFA? Lance Armstrong for the new national fitness coachand wee Bob Diamond as the new CFO?
Ffs... I'm all for genuine rehabilitation and second chances
Yeah i see that.....

I am not saying McKay should be given the Scotland job, I just don't think his previous actions should be taken into account when his actions since should be ignored.

Just my opinion and I have said my bit...will leave it there[/b]
Nothing interested in getting involved in an unnecessary stramash either and actually take your point re Mackay on board but as someone who has spent 6 years working with ex-offenders as head of an Integrated offender Management team what you can see about my attitude to second chances is limited at best.
:thumbsup:
Fair enough - and very noble - if often thankless work
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