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Managers Thread; Spain sack Lopetegui. Yes, really.
Topic Started: 21 May 2016, 09:07 PM (998,465 Views)
Luigi
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murphio
23 Feb 2017, 03:41 PM
hazy
23 Feb 2017, 12:57 PM
I'm a little bit irritated that we seem to have landed into a position where the ramblings of Kris Boyd are held up across various types of media as some kind barometer.

Hearts win: Boyd was talking pish
Hearts lose: Boyd was spot on.

To be used until Hearts win something, or the much more likely scenario that Cathro is booted.
Who said he was a barmoter? His point was perfectly valid but folk were shooting the messenger and not the message. There is far more to successful management than having tactical knowledge or devising a coaching programme. You need to be a strong personality who is able to transfer your knowledge on to those in your charge. You need to be able to motivate and inspire people. I have no doubt Ian Cathro has some kind of future in the game but a manager? Can't see it, to me he just doesn't have the personality for it.
What I took from Boyd's comments on Cathro was that he was slaughtering Cathro without trying to accept that there were positives and negatives to the appointment.
He went for the sneering headline in order to make himself out as some kind of oracle almost as if he was trying to be Chris Sutton.

He didn't say the negative and then balance it with a positive but it was a character assassination of Cathro.

There is no doubt that Cathro is a thinker about the game rather than a shouter and people like Boyd just can't get their little minds around this.
Personally I would hope that Scottish football went the way of the thinkers rather than the shouters and that's why I have no interest in what Boyd has to say as he is a throwback.
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tinsoldier
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Luigi
23 Feb 2017, 04:48 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 03:41 PM
hazy
23 Feb 2017, 12:57 PM
I'm a little bit irritated that we seem to have landed into a position where the ramblings of Kris Boyd are held up across various types of media as some kind barometer.

Hearts win: Boyd was talking pish
Hearts lose: Boyd was spot on.

To be used until Hearts win something, or the much more likely scenario that Cathro is booted.
Who said he was a barmoter? His point was perfectly valid but folk were shooting the messenger and not the message. There is far more to successful management than having tactical knowledge or devising a coaching programme. You need to be a strong personality who is able to transfer your knowledge on to those in your charge. You need to be able to motivate and inspire people. I have no doubt Ian Cathro has some kind of future in the game but a manager? Can't see it, to me he just doesn't have the personality for it.
What I took from Boyd's comments on Cathro was that he was slaughtering Cathro without trying to accept that there were positives and negatives to the appointment.
He went for the sneering headline in order to make himself out as some kind of oracle almost as if he was trying to be Chris Sutton.

He didn't say the negative and then balance it with a positive but it was a character assassination of Cathro.

There is no doubt that Cathro is a thinker about the game rather than a shouter and people like Boyd just can't get their little minds around this.
Personally I would hope that Scottish football went the way of the thinkers rather than the shouters and that's why I have no interest in what Boyd has to say as he is a throwback.
Boyd is a cretin, and a you say was ready to slaughter Cathro because in Boyd's tiny mind Walter Smith is still the manager by which all others should be measured.
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remy mcswain
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tinsoldier
23 Feb 2017, 04:42 PM
Perhaps Cathro sought out Levein's advice at half-time as opposed to being summoned?

First managerial job, young guy, wouldn't be surprising if he did so especially as they were being outplayed.
Levein left the Directors' Box a few minutes before half time and went down to the dressing room. He also went to the dressing room post game. He also fed Cathro lines in some of his media interviews. The wee guy is getting worked up the back.
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tinsoldier
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remy mcswain
23 Feb 2017, 04:59 PM
tinsoldier
23 Feb 2017, 04:42 PM
Perhaps Cathro sought out Levein's advice at half-time as opposed to being summoned?

First managerial job, young guy, wouldn't be surprising if he did so especially as they were being outplayed.
Levein left the Directors' Box a few minutes before half time and went down to the dressing room. He also went to the dressing room post game. He also fed Cathro lines in some of his media interviews. The wee guy is getting worked up the back.
:thumbsup:

I know the power Levein wields at Tynecastle - but he was hell bent on getting Cathro to the club after they worked together at Dundee Utd. Just not in the position he is now, one which I don't think he'll last long in given the interference from above.
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murphio
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tinsoldier
23 Feb 2017, 04:52 PM
Luigi
23 Feb 2017, 04:48 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 03:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What I took from Boyd's comments on Cathro was that he was slaughtering Cathro without trying to accept that there were positives and negatives to the appointment.
He went for the sneering headline in order to make himself out as some kind of oracle almost as if he was trying to be Chris Sutton.

He didn't say the negative and then balance it with a positive but it was a character assassination of Cathro.

There is no doubt that Cathro is a thinker about the game rather than a shouter and people like Boyd just can't get their little minds around this.
Personally I would hope that Scottish football went the way of the thinkers rather than the shouters and that's why I have no interest in what Boyd has to say as he is a throwback.
Boyd is a cretin, and a you say was ready to slaughter Cathro because in Boyd's tiny mind Walter Smith is still the manager by which all others should be measured.
Boyd might be a cretin (in fact he is definitely a cretin) but what he said about Cathro was largely correct in my view. All technical knowledge and theory with no personality or authority to impart it onto those below him. People were/are terrified of Alex Ferguson and Martin O'Neill. People confuse the ability to coach with the ability to manage - that is why MON left the day to day stuff to John Robertson. Hearts have tried to be innovative but I can't see this experiment going much further,
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Midfield Maestro
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duffsticks
23 Feb 2017, 04:30 PM
Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 01:17 PM
Like Hearts, despite all the chat around youth development, they still ended up panic-signing a load of duds.

Hearts have been at the cutting edge of youth coaching for a while now, despite not having a lot of money to spend (a lot of what they spend is from fundraising). The general technical standard of the kids they're coaching is pretty high for the stature of the club. I have no idea the amount of input Levein has, but I gather it's a decent amount at least.
And yet they signed 9 senior players in January, most of whom have been awful.

I'm not saying they don't have a good youth system. I'm saying that, notwithstanding their youth development, they have signed a whole load of mediocrity for the senior squad. Just like Levein did at Dundee United.
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Midfield Maestro
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ballbhoy
23 Feb 2017, 03:29 PM
Ian Cathro fits into the bigger picture in the fact that Hearts youths have been using his box soccer program for the last few seasons. I've seen the box soccer in action and the kids are streets ahead of their peers in technical ability. What I can't work out is whether that's because they've learned those skills at Box Soccer or whether they were already ahead of their peers and the kids used Box Soccer to hone their skills. Certainly when I watched Box Soccer kids from Dundee in a tournament they were miles ahead of other teams. Cathro will help ensure this program is running smoothly all the way through. Of course this doesn't help in the here and now.


If I'm being honest I'd have thought the better appointment would have been McPhee first team manager and Cathro his number 2. McPhee is more used to dealing with personalities and isn't scared to voice his opinion. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the job eventually.
If that's the reason he's been brought in, he should be in charge of youth development.

He's not going to make Perry Kitchen a better player with Box Soccer.
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remy mcswain
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Interesting post on Jambos Kickback

-Not one player recruited in summer 2015 made the squad tonight.

-Not one player recruited in the summer of 2016 made it on to the pitch tonight.

-Only two players in our starting XI tonight played any part in our record breaking Championship season 2014/15, and Jack Hamilton only appeared twice.

-Our entire back 4 were signed in January and none of them have a deal beyond the end of the season.

-Of our player's recruited in summer transfer window 2015, only Oshinawa remains at the club

-Of the players recruited in Summer 2016, Muirhead, Watt and Sammon have already left the club be it permanently or temporarily. Noring is yet to make his competitive debut

-Despite the we'll get you a move to England mantra, only Jordan McGhee has moved on loan to Middlesbrough reserves in that time, and Robbie Muirhead went to League one with Neilson

Our recruitment is shambolic, transient and increasingly harmful to the club. I've been a big fan of Levein through the years but as director of football he's ultimately culpable.

End the we'll get you a move to England nonsense now, if a player is good enough they will earn a move. Start actually trying to actually build a squad as opposed to six monthly reboots.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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Leveins found the perfect gig,manager in all but name but someone else takes the shampooe.

His ego is monstrous,his henry halls tiny.
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Butters
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murphio
23 Feb 2017, 05:40 PM
tinsoldier
23 Feb 2017, 04:52 PM
Luigi
23 Feb 2017, 04:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Boyd is a cretin, and a you say was ready to slaughter Cathro because in Boyd's tiny mind Walter Smith is still the manager by which all others should be measured.
Boyd might be a cretin (in fact he is definitely a cretin) but what he said about Cathro was largely correct in my view. All technical knowledge and theory with no personality or authority to impart it onto those below him. People were/are terrified of Alex Ferguson and Martin O'Neill. People confuse the ability to coach with the ability to manage - that is why MON left the day to day stuff to John Robertson. Hearts have tried to be innovative but I can't see this experiment going much further,
Ancelotti, Guardiola, Benitez, Mourinho aren't exactly known for their ability to strike fear in to players but are hugely successful.

Ferguson by his own admission had to adapt later on because modern day players don't respond to jumped up wee tyrants trying to rule by fear.

Gary Neville once said it was ridiculous the idea that United players were terrified of Ferguson, as any footballer that could be intimidated wouldn't last long at United as their success was built on mental stregnth.

Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Staam, Keane put this idea they were all scared of Ferguson to bed as they allntook him on and admitedly lost.
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tinsoldier
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Midfield Maestro
23 Feb 2017, 05:43 PM
ballbhoy
23 Feb 2017, 03:29 PM
Ian Cathro fits into the bigger picture in the fact that Hearts youths have been using his box soccer program for the last few seasons. I've seen the box soccer in action and the kids are streets ahead of their peers in technical ability. What I can't work out is whether that's because they've learned those skills at Box Soccer or whether they were already ahead of their peers and the kids used Box Soccer to hone their skills. Certainly when I watched Box Soccer kids from Dundee in a tournament they were miles ahead of other teams. Cathro will help ensure this program is running smoothly all the way through. Of course this doesn't help in the here and now.


If I'm being honest I'd have thought the better appointment would have been McPhee first team manager and Cathro his number 2. McPhee is more used to dealing with personalities and isn't scared to voice his opinion. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if he gets the job eventually.
If that's the reason he's been brought in, he should be in charge of youth development.

He's not going to make Perry Kitchen a better player with Box Soccer.
At the risk of repeating myself - that's the job they wanted him for but Cathro (quite rightly) wasn't giving up his salary at Newcastle to do that job at Hearts - he wanted the managers job.
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Dannybhoy95
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Butters
23 Feb 2017, 06:31 PM
Ferguson by his own admission had to adapt later on because modern day players don't respond to jumped up wee tyrants trying to rule by fear.
Yup. I can't think of a single truly elite level manager that has ruled by fear in the 21st century.
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Butters
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Dannybhoy95
23 Feb 2017, 06:51 PM
Butters
23 Feb 2017, 06:31 PM
Ferguson by his own admission had to adapt later on because modern day players don't respond to jumped up wee tyrants trying to rule by fear.
Yup. I can't think of a single truly elite level manager that has ruled by fear in the 21st century.
It's a perverse British mentality where we love a strong man who acts like the father of the club.

In reality though if any of us had bosses who tried to rule by fear, we'd either take them outside, look for a new job or get him fired.

I don't know what makes people think footballers don't think simmilar.
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ootmaheid
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Butters
23 Feb 2017, 06:31 PM
murphio
23 Feb 2017, 05:40 PM
tinsoldier
23 Feb 2017, 04:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Boyd might be a cretin (in fact he is definitely a cretin) but what he said about Cathro was largely correct in my view. All technical knowledge and theory with no personality or authority to impart it onto those below him. People were/are terrified of Alex Ferguson and Martin O'Neill. People confuse the ability to coach with the ability to manage - that is why MON left the day to day stuff to John Robertson. Hearts have tried to be innovative but I can't see this experiment going much further,
Ancelotti, Guardiola, Benitez, Mourinho aren't exactly known for their ability to strike fear in to players but are hugely successful.

Ferguson by his own admission had to adapt later on because modern day players don't respond to jumped up wee tyrants trying to rule by fear.

Gary Neville once said it was ridiculous the idea that United players were terrified of Ferguson, as any footballer that could be intimidated wouldn't last long at United as their success was built on mental stregnth.

Van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Staam, Keane put this idea they were all scared of Ferguson to bed as they allntook him on and admitedly lost.
:thumbsup:


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VerdeYBlanco
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Seen a tweet by an Italian site that Ranieri's been punted.

May well be pish.
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remy mcswain
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VerdeYBlanco
23 Feb 2017, 08:41 PM
Seen a tweet by an Italian site that Ranieri's been punted.

May well be pish.
Daily Mail going with it now too.
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Wailer
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VerdeYBlanco
23 Feb 2017, 08:41 PM
Seen a tweet by an Italian site that Ranieri's been punted.

May well be pish.
Just seen that.

Wallopers, hope they get relegated now......well, even more so now.
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TheSaint
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Wins the league.. one home win away from CL quarter finals.. time to punt him
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VerdeYBlanco
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A few other newspapers going with it now.
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OverAndOver
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if true then a bit gobsmacked to be honest

won the EPL and could make last 8 of champs league and booted out

some chairman are :blink:
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