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Brendan Rodgers; "I was born into Celtic"
Topic Started: 20 May 2016, 05:06 PM (2,287,835 Views)
lepetitmerde
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allthewine
4 Feb 2018, 08:28 PM
Milton
4 Feb 2018, 02:19 PM
san meegs
4 Feb 2018, 02:07 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Our goal difference is the worst it has been at this stage since the Tony Mowbray season. In only 2 of those seasons have we scored fewer goals - the hun liquidation year and Deila's first. Our points total is down there with some of the worst of them.

People bend over backwards to defend Brendan on here at times. For the massive budgetary advantage he has over previous managers and the money he is being paid, we haven't been close to good enough this season. I think you're right about last season clouding people's judgement, but it's not in the way you're suggesting.
Not good enough? Wow.
He's right regarding Performances. There has been more dreadful performances than good performances this season and a whole lot of nothingness in between
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Franakamura
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VBI
4 Feb 2018, 09:04 PM
You don't win an "extra" title for being 10 points ahead of your final total from the previous season. Finishing first with 80 points and finishing first with 100 points gives you the same end result. In terms of actual output, we've done everything this season just as we had last season, won the League Cup again, qualified for the Champions League again, and even did better by getting Europa League matches, top of the table again, undefeated against the chimps again. There was always going to be a second season comedown from an undefeated Treble. Normally, even great teams lose league matches sometimes. The huns are incrementally better, Hibs are back in the league, Hearts are tougher now than they were under Cathro, Killie are much better under Clarke, people have had a year to study Rodgers team and try to figure it out, AND we've had to see guys like Rogic and Roberts miss huge chunks of the season, Dembele hasn't been able to get fit, thus guys like Armstrong and Sinclair become easier to double mark.

I do think Rodgers needs to be a tad more willing to mix things up in certain matches, but the Kilmarnock game on that awful pitch that they shortened and narrowed was always going to be tricky. We'll need to see how things go in upcoming matches, after all we are only just past battling past Hibs and swatting Hearts aside. The obvious difference in performances this season is due to too many creative players missing games which is why I think Rodgers wanted to get Musounda in the team quicker than he may normally have done.
Far too much sense in there :lol:
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van Doesburg
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4 Feb 2018, 09:04 PM
You don't win an "extra" title for being 10 points ahead of your final total from the previous season. Finishing first with 80 points and finishing first with 100 points gives you the same end result. In terms of actual output, we've done everything this season just as we had last season, won the League Cup again, qualified for the Champions League again, and even did better by getting Europa League matches, top of the table again, undefeated against the chimps again. There was always going to be a second season comedown from an undefeated Treble. Normally, even great teams lose league matches sometimes. The huns are incrementally better, Hibs are back in the league, Hearts are tougher now than they were under Cathro, Killie are much better under Clarke, people have had a year to study Rodgers team and try to figure it out, AND we've had to see guys like Rogic and Roberts miss huge chunks of the season, Dembele hasn't been able to get fit, thus guys like Armstrong and Sinclair become easier to double mark.

I do think Rodgers needs to be a tad more willing to mix things up in certain matches, but the Kilmarnock game on that awful pitch that they shortened and narrowed was always going to be tricky. We'll need to see how things go in upcoming matches, after all we are only just past battling past Hibs and swatting Hearts aside. The obvious difference in performances this season is due to too many creative players missing games which is why I think Rodgers wanted to get Musounda in the team quicker than he may normally have done.
:thumbsup: Edit to add: Worry that the scuddings in Europe have also had an effect on confidence/performance.
Edited by van Doesburg, 5 Feb 2018, 09:18 AM.
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Stephane_Mahe
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Franakamura
5 Feb 2018, 08:51 AM
VBI
4 Feb 2018, 09:04 PM
You don't win an "extra" title for being 10 points ahead of your final total from the previous season. Finishing first with 80 points and finishing first with 100 points gives you the same end result. In terms of actual output, we've done everything this season just as we had last season, won the League Cup again, qualified for the Champions League again, and even did better by getting Europa League matches, top of the table again, undefeated against the chimps again. There was always going to be a second season comedown from an undefeated Treble. Normally, even great teams lose league matches sometimes. The huns are incrementally better, Hibs are back in the league, Hearts are tougher now than they were under Cathro, Killie are much better under Clarke, people have had a year to study Rodgers team and try to figure it out, AND we've had to see guys like Rogic and Roberts miss huge chunks of the season, Dembele hasn't been able to get fit, thus guys like Armstrong and Sinclair become easier to double mark.

I do think Rodgers needs to be a tad more willing to mix things up in certain matches, but the Kilmarnock game on that awful pitch that they shortened and narrowed was always going to be tricky. We'll need to see how things go in upcoming matches, after all we are only just past battling past Hibs and swatting Hearts aside. The obvious difference in performances this season is due to too many creative players missing games which is why I think Rodgers wanted to get Musounda in the team quicker than he may normally have done.
Far too much sense in there :lol:
Actually, I think that was the perfect amount of sense.
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SaMule
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van Doesburg
5 Feb 2018, 09:15 AM
VBI
4 Feb 2018, 09:04 PM
You don't win an "extra" title for being 10 points ahead of your final total from the previous season. Finishing first with 80 points and finishing first with 100 points gives you the same end result. In terms of actual output, we've done everything this season just as we had last season, won the League Cup again, qualified for the Champions League again, and even did better by getting Europa League matches, top of the table again, undefeated against the chimps again. There was always going to be a second season comedown from an undefeated Treble. Normally, even great teams lose league matches sometimes. The huns are incrementally better, Hibs are back in the league, Hearts are tougher now than they were under Cathro, Killie are much better under Clarke, people have had a year to study Rodgers team and try to figure it out, AND we've had to see guys like Rogic and Roberts miss huge chunks of the season, Dembele hasn't been able to get fit, thus guys like Armstrong and Sinclair become easier to double mark.

I do think Rodgers needs to be a tad more willing to mix things up in certain matches, but the Kilmarnock game on that awful pitch that they shortened and narrowed was always going to be tricky. We'll need to see how things go in upcoming matches, after all we are only just past battling past Hibs and swatting Hearts aside. The obvious difference in performances this season is due to too many creative players missing games which is why I think Rodgers wanted to get Musounda in the team quicker than he may normally have done.
:thumbsup: Edit to add: Worry that the scuddings in Europe have also had an effect on confidence/performance.
That's my thinking too. We all knew that third place in that group was the aim, and we achieved that thanks to one excellent performance in Brussels, but the results in the other games ranged from disappointing to downright embarrassing. We were firmly put in our place, and while there are several million Euros worth of reasons for us being in that place it doesn't make it any easier to take. For players who've just swept all before them domestically to have a goal difference of -16 in those five matches - that's a bitter pill to swallow, and I think it's really knocked them mentally.

We have to at least put up a fight against Zenit, even if we don't beat them over both legs. Get back a bit of pride in Europe. Hopefully win the home game, and have Zenit be the first of many visiting teams to start talking again about what an intimidating atmosphere Celtic Park is rather than what a great time they had here.

This is where Brendan the great man-manager has to really show his worth. All these injuries aren't helping of course, but the players need a lift somehow, they need to know that actually they can compete with teams that are from richer leagues.
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One sharp cookie
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Some posts have been over the top but any manager, in any job, would like to be able to demonstrate that the longer they spend in a role, the more progress they make. Right now we look a poorer team than we did in September 2016, when Rodgers was barely in the door. He could argue, with justification, that he’s a victim of his own success having set the bar so high so early. A not dissimilar thing happened to MON, whose Celtic team played some of its best football in his first few months at the club. Injuries to flair players have been a huge factor in our insipid performances recently, but Rodgers should be more concerned about the way he’s struggled to manage the form of players like Dembele and Sinclair. He may be starting to see echoes of some of the stuff that happened when he was at Liverpool, when the form of key players like Sterling and Sturridge started to cause him problems after an incredible season the year before. Being manager of Celtic is one of the most difficult jobs in football in that it’s one of the few jobs where you can win the league and still be considered a disappointment (as Deila discovered). Rodgers will set his goals much higher than merely being the best in Scotland and he’ll be frustrated right now that we’re not playing the football he’d like. I’m banking on the return of Roberts to give us a lift and help out some of our other attacking players who seem to be struggling with confidence right now.
Edited by One sharp cookie, 5 Feb 2018, 09:52 AM.
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allthewine
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One sharp cookie
5 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
Some posts have been over the top but any manager, in any job, would like to be able to demonstrate that the longer they spend in a role, the more progress they make. Right now we look a poorer team than we did in September 2016, when Rodgers was barely in the door. He could argue, with justification, that he’s a victim of his own success having set the bar so high so early. A not dissimilar thing happened to MON, whose Celtic team played some of its best football in his first few months at the club. Injuries to flair players have been a huge factor in our insipid performances recently, but Rodgers should be more concerned about the way he’s struggled to manage the form of players like Dembele and Sinclair. He may be starting to see echoes of some of the stuff that happened when he was at Liverpool, when the form of key players like Sterling and Sturridge started to cause him problems after an incredible season the year before. Being manager of Celtic is one of the most difficult jobs in football in that it’s one of the few jobs where you can win the league and still be considered a disappointment (as Deila discovered). Rodgers will set his goals much higher than merely being the best in Scotland and he’ll be frustrated right now that we’re not playing the football he’d like. I’m banking on the return of Roberts to give us a lift and help out some of our other attacking players who seem to be struggling with confidence right now.
We will be fine. Rodgers, like any coach has made errors but people should cut him some slack. We are 8 points clear and on course for at least another double.

We have suffered with injuries and players not playing as well as last season.

Despite, Sinclair being off form he has still bagged 17 goals and has 15 assists.

Moussa is on 9 goals. Let's get him firing and he can hit at least 20-25 before the season is out.
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tinytim81
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tinsoldier
4 Feb 2018, 01:18 PM
Our second league defeat under Brendan Rodgers and he’s lost the dressing room

I love KDS
I cant tell whose trolling anymore :cry:
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One sharp cookie
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allthewine
5 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM
One sharp cookie
5 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
Some posts have been over the top but any manager, in any job, would like to be able to demonstrate that the longer they spend in a role, the more progress they make. Right now we look a poorer team than we did in September 2016, when Rodgers was barely in the door. He could argue, with justification, that he’s a victim of his own success having set the bar so high so early. A not dissimilar thing happened to MON, whose Celtic team played some of its best football in his first few months at the club. Injuries to flair players have been a huge factor in our insipid performances recently, but Rodgers should be more concerned about the way he’s struggled to manage the form of players like Dembele and Sinclair. He may be starting to see echoes of some of the stuff that happened when he was at Liverpool, when the form of key players like Sterling and Sturridge started to cause him problems after an incredible season the year before. Being manager of Celtic is one of the most difficult jobs in football in that it’s one of the few jobs where you can win the league and still be considered a disappointment (as Deila discovered). Rodgers will set his goals much higher than merely being the best in Scotland and he’ll be frustrated right now that we’re not playing the football he’d like. I’m banking on the return of Roberts to give us a lift and help out some of our other attacking players who seem to be struggling with confidence right now.
We will be fine. Rodgers, like any coach has made errors but people should cut him some slack. We are 8 points clear and on course for at least another double.

We have suffered with injuries and players not playing as well as last season.

Despite, Sinclair being off form he has still bagged 17 goals and has 15 assists.

Moussa is on 9 goals. Let's get him firing and he can hit at least 20-25 before the season is out.
People are cutting him slack - and rightly so after what he’s achieved. The criticism he’s had in recent days is nothing compared with what some previous Celtic managers would have received for some recent performances.
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tinytim81
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lesdon67
4 Feb 2018, 07:24 PM
Tim, I don't think any one of us is panicking as much as you think so. I know you're in America, aye? I've no idea how much of Celtic playing live you see, but I was at Celtic Park last Tuesday night to watch us take a much vaunted Hertz team to the cleaners. Then to watch us playing amateur football against Killie a few days later is quite 'disturbing'. I don't expect us to win every game but I'd sure as hell like a wee bit more consistency in playing football.
Rodgers has been in charge for nearly two seasons now. He's broken every domestic record there is, won every single domestic trophy he's competed for and only lost two games. Two games.

How much more consistent do you think this can get exactly?
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One sharp cookie
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tinytim81
5 Feb 2018, 10:08 AM
lesdon67
4 Feb 2018, 07:24 PM
Tim, I don't think any one of us is panicking as much as you think so. I know you're in America, aye? I've no idea how much of Celtic playing live you see, but I was at Celtic Park last Tuesday night to watch us take a much vaunted Hertz team to the cleaners. Then to watch us playing amateur football against Killie a few days later is quite 'disturbing'. I don't expect us to win every game but I'd sure as hell like a wee bit more consistency in playing football.
Rodgers has been in charge for nearly two seasons now. He's broken every domestic record there is, won every single domestic trophy he's competed for and only lost two games. Two games.

How much more consistent do you think this can get exactly?
There’s a difference between consistency in performances and consistency in results. I remember a period during Strachan’s time when the phrase “good result, shame about the performance” could have been designed for his team. But even leaving performances aside, in the past few months we’ve had a thrashing at Tynecastle, a defeat at Kilmarnock, a goalless draw at home to the poorest team I’ve seen come out of Ibrox, and conceded an average of three goals per game in Europe. Is it a disaster? Of course not. But there’s a direction of travel that folk would like to see reversed.
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tinytim81
5 Feb 2018, 10:08 AM
lesdon67
4 Feb 2018, 07:24 PM
Tim, I don't think any one of us is panicking as much as you think so. I know you're in America, aye? I've no idea how much of Celtic playing live you see, but I was at Celtic Park last Tuesday night to watch us take a much vaunted Hertz team to the cleaners. Then to watch us playing amateur football against Killie a few days later is quite 'disturbing'. I don't expect us to win every game but I'd sure as hell like a wee bit more consistency in playing football.
Rodgers has been in charge for nearly two seasons now. He's broken every domestic record there is, won every single domestic trophy he's competed for and only lost two games. Two games.

How much more consistent do you think this can get exactly?
Consistency only counts in the mini league of the last 3 games mate
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Quiet Assasin
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I don't think it's ungrateful or spoiled to point out that the 'direction of travel', to coin a phrase used above is slightly disappointing.

Rodgers is a man who has meticulous plans and targets, and he has stated some of them publicly. Recently, he said that he had a target of a double digit lead in the league by Christmas, which we haven't managed to achieve. Another goal was Europe after Christmas, which we did achieve but in a relatively underwhelming manner.

From a supporters' point of view, you can't expect the same level as we achieved domestically last season as it was a one off in almost every measurable way, but I don't think many expected to see a team bereft of ideas against the likes of Ross County or Kilmarnock.

The performances and results that we have had show that the Treble is certainly not the foregone conclusion some think it is.

In terms of Europe, I think this has been the biggest disappointment. Last season we got to the CL Group for the first time in a number of years. We acquitted ourselves well in most games and actually looked comfortable holding possession and playing football against good teams, and were pretty unfortunate not to go through to the next stage of the EL. The hope would have been that the 'get to Europe after Christmas' goal would have been met by building on this, not having any more absolute hidings (never mind three) and qualify in a 'strong' third. Going forward, last season most people would have said a few rounds in Europa League would have been an achievable goal, and I'm sure Rodgers himself thought so.

We're at the stage now where most people expect we'll be easily dispatched by Zenit, which will leave us probably in a position of being unseeded in at least one round of CL qualifiers next season given the changes there. We're currently sitting on a record of 1 win in 12 tournament-proper European games, with multiple record defeats in among that, over the two seasons. We probably haven't done enough to significantly alter this, from the boardroom, to the dugout, to the pitch.

Is it the end of the world? No.

Is it a bit of a dampener considering where we were last season and the start of this one? Yes.
Edited by Quiet Assasin, 5 Feb 2018, 10:59 AM.
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macca89
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Injuries are ruining us this season.

2 injuries in 25 minutes humped his ability to make changes to a system not working. Our back 3 after 25 was a left back, a midfielder and a guy that was signed 3 days prior. Sinclair was most effective when he had KT overlapping and providing him with other options and we definitely missed that. In a game where we were struggling, we only had one sub to make an effective change. When chasing a goal he made the only logical sub in bringing on the striker. But if we had had the option of others it could have helped our chances. Even McGregor. He gets pelters on here (and I agree he shouldn't be a starter) but he's always been handy to bring on when you need goals.

Gordon, Lustig, Boyata, Rogic, Armstrong, Roberts and Griffiths were all integral to our invincible season. We beefed up our backline with an experienced CB and we can't even get him playing either. Arguably that's 8 players that would have played on Saturday that couldn't. I've never known us to have an injury crisis of this magnitude in all my years watching Celtic.

Although I agree he probably shouldn't have changed the lineup from the team that pumped Hearts. Even still, me along with a lot of others were probably chugging themselves when they seen the lineup before the game.
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Hail!Hail!
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My biggest worry is that we kept last years squad together, added to it (albeit in a typical underwhelming Celtic fashion) and yet are much poorer this year in terms of performance levels in matches.

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Fly Pelican
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Hail!Hail!
5 Feb 2018, 01:45 PM
My biggest worry is that we kept last years squad together, added to it (albeit in a typical underwhelming Celtic fashion) and yet are much poorer this year in terms of performance levels in matches.

Unless you were in the car park when we swooped for Gary Holt and Justin Whittle you can stfu
Edited by Fly Pelican, 5 Feb 2018, 02:30 PM.
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One sharp cookie
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5 Feb 2018, 10:51 AM
I don't think it's ungrateful or spoiled to point out that the 'direction of travel', to coin a phrase used above is slightly disappointing.

Rodgers is a man who has meticulous plans and targets, and he has stated some of them publicly. Recently, he said that he had a target of a double digit lead in the league by Christmas, which we haven't managed to achieve. Another goal was Europe after Christmas, which we did achieve but in a relatively underwhelming manner.

From a supporters' point of view, you can't expect the same level as we achieved domestically last season as it was a one off in almost every measurable way, but I don't think many expected to see a team bereft of ideas against the likes of Ross County or Kilmarnock.

The performances and results that we have had show that the Treble is certainly not the foregone conclusion some think it is.

In terms of Europe, I think this has been the biggest disappointment. Last season we got to the CL Group for the first time in a number of years. We acquitted ourselves well in most games and actually looked comfortable holding possession and playing football against good teams, and were pretty unfortunate not to go through to the next stage of the EL. The hope would have been that the 'get to Europe after Christmas' goal would have been met by building on this, not having any more absolute hidings (never mind three) and qualify in a 'strong' third. Going forward, last season most people would have said a few rounds in Europa League would have been an achievable goal, and I'm sure Rodgers himself thought so.

We're at the stage now where most people expect we'll be easily dispatched by Zenit, which will leave us probably in a position of being unseeded in at least one round of CL qualifiers next season given the changes there. We're currently sitting on a record of 1 win in 12 tournament-proper European games, with multiple record defeats in among that, over the two seasons. We probably haven't done enough to significantly alter this, from the boardroom, to the dugout, to the pitch.

Is it the end of the world? No.

Is it a bit of a dampener considering where we were last season and the start of this one? Yes.
I think some of the European stuff has really knocked us back a step. There was a feeling after the progress last year and then that brilliant 5-0 performance against Astana that we were developing into a decent side at that level. Then that second leg in Astana happened where we looked like conceding every time they came forward and it was back to square one again. Yes we got through comfortably enough in the end but I suspect Rodgers was shocked at how vulnerable we still looked. Then came the 5-0 defeat at home to PSG and it was obvious we were cannon fodder to those teams. I reckon some of those European defeats have dampened things a bit and led, in part, to the underwhelming form we’ve been showing for months now.
Edited by One sharp cookie, 5 Feb 2018, 02:44 PM.
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It's not just the injuries but who they've been too that have absolutely killed us. The style of football is suffering also.

I don't think the treble is the forgone conclusion everyone else does either. We need to up our game a good bit .
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fatboab
3 Feb 2018, 05:07 PM
valiantbhoy
3 Feb 2018, 03:28 PM
Probably not allowed to criticise Rodgers but it certainly looks like he’s lost the dressing room.
:lol:


brilliant, cheered me up no end.
Didn't see the original post, so thanks for quoting it or I'd have missed it :lmao:
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Bob Loblaw
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Flawless
5 Feb 2018, 02:50 PM
It's not just the injuries but who they've been too that have absolutely killed us. The style of football is suffering also.

I don't think the treble is the forgone conclusion everyone else does either. We need to up our game a good bit .
People think it’s a forgone conclusion?

I’d be surprised if we do it. Double and Europe after Christmas is still an excellent season though.
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