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Brendan Rodgers; "I was born into Celtic"
Topic Started: 20 May 2016, 05:06 PM (2,287,903 Views)
Singapore Bhoy
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greenandwhyte
24 Nov 2017, 07:11 AM
Brendan is trying to get us playing nice attacking football against the best teams on the planet. When it falls to shampoo it is not good viewing and even against a team of PSG's quality its still embarrassing to concede 7 goals. But nobody can judge the managers philosophy when it doesn't work against teams like Barca, PSG and Bayern. Judge him against Anderlecht and in Europa League. People forget the season before he arrived we got knocked out CL by Malmo and finished last in a group with Molde, Fenerbahce and Ajax. If we can have a good run this season then that's a major improvement from where we were only two seasons ago all because of Brendan.
Whilst not happy with 7-1, I agree with your post.

Would we be confident of progressing out of a group against Molde, Fenerbache and Ajax now? Absolutely. I would be confident of topping that group now.

So there's yer answer on judging the progress made under the best manager we could hope to have. Again, 7-1 was sore but in my opinion anybody criticisng our manager clearly can't see the bigger picture and needs have to have a right good look at themselves. Then humbly apologise. Imagine the alternatives if we didn't have Brendan!!!
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Gothamcelt
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Kris Boyd will tell anyone (who pays him) that the rangers job is still a great draw, one of the biggest teams in the world etc. When it comes to BR and Celtic, no one in England cares about Scottish football.
On the plus side it means that BR's stock has fallen, no English club will touch him and we are lumbered with him for the next few seasons. We just can't get a break, eh Kris?

Positives? You must be joking Rodgers! Is Celtic boss Brendan Rodgers immune from criticism? Good news for Hoops fans is PSG loss will keep him in Scotland longer, says Kris Boyd
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Wee_Wizard
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MON's Left Eyebrow
24 Nov 2017, 05:16 AM
I'd rather be able to go to Anderlecht and the likes and win comfortably playing an attractive style of football than to go to these places and scrape a loss because we're on default to set up as a defensive side in the CL. Nobody likes getting pumped 7-1 by PSG but I see this as a byproduct of being able to really compete with the teams who're on our level.

The CL is no longer the level for 99.9% of teams in Europe anymore including us. I do see the EL being our level and i'm interested to see how we do in there.
Nobody’s saying we suddenly turn into an ultra defensive team for the CL games, the general consensus ( at least with the posters who dare criticise Brendan’s tactics against PQG and Barca) is that for 2/3 games a season against the elite clubs PQG,Barca, Real etc we should adopt a far more cautious approach to try and avoid the maulings we’ve received !!!
Against the lower level clubs Anderlecht, Mönchengladbach etc we can play our normal game hence the results against said 2 clubs in the away games.Players like Rogic,Sinclair,Forrest,McGregor even Roberts tend to lose the ball at that level as they like to take their man on or don’t have the physicality to cope with the level of player they’re facing.Btw I’m not decrying these players as at domestic level they’re a class above, however after the pumping we’ve had against PQG twice and Barca surely there must come a point where Brendan has a rethink for these games only,ie away to the elite ?
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LambertandButler
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mick82
24 Nov 2017, 08:45 AM
lepetitmerde
24 Nov 2017, 08:31 AM
Dannybhoy95
23 Nov 2017, 10:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I wish we would hoof it up the park instead of giving teams throw ins 30 yards from our goal after Gordon aimlesses punts another ball over tierneys head
And therein lies the issue.

Inaccurate shorter passing out from the back will concede possession and the opposition will come straight back at you.

Hoofing it up the park will concede possession and the opposition will come straight back at you.

I can understand why the manager is tying to make us better at the former. Some folk want us to abandon that which strikes me as saying 'We're not very good at keeping possession so why try to?'
But the poster here is making the point that it's far more damaging against these teams to concede possession in your own half.

How many of the goals we've conceded over the two games came from occasions where we've misplaced a pass or made an error in our own half?
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sevilliano
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mick82
24 Nov 2017, 08:45 AM
lepetitmerde
24 Nov 2017, 08:31 AM
Dannybhoy95
23 Nov 2017, 10:47 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I wish we would hoof it up the park instead of giving teams throw ins 30 yards from our goal after Gordon aimlesses punts another ball over tierneys head
And therein lies the issue.

Inaccurate shorter passing out from the back will concede possession and the opposition will come straight back at you.

Hoofing it up the park will concede possession and the opposition will come straight back at you.

I can understand why the manager is tying to make us better at the former. Some folk want us to abandon that which strikes me as saying 'We're not very good at keeping possession so why try to?'
That's true but on one hand you have chance to reform defensive positions and move up and down as a team

On other we are passing out to our own corner flag and then struggling to move the ball anywhere but across defence and our holding midfielders and invariably losing ball and goals at that point

I get what BR is trying to do but the ball circulation needs to be more limited against top teams - the other night it was crystal clear PSG sensed blood every time brown got the ball and pressed

BR did change things dropping sinclair and we played out better in parts than against bayern away but some of it was suicidal - there just has to be some variation
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Still Game
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It's not impossible to play attacking/dominant football 80% of the time and coach a team to defend for certain games. I'm not sure where this popular argument has appeared from.
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dazabhoy67
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joebhoy95
22 Nov 2017, 10:59 PM
Quote:
 
PSG are winning every week against teams of a similar standard of us, but not always by 5 and 6. Teams find a way to keep it respectable.

PSG recent results

4-1 Nantes
5-0 Angers
5-0 Anderlecht
3-0 Nice
4-0 Anderlecht
6-2 Bordeux
3-0 Bayern

There was a draw with Marseille, and a 1 goal win over Dijon in there. Not every team can put 4 and 5 past the opposition every single week.
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Flawless
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Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

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dannyclyro
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Flawless
24 Nov 2017, 11:33 AM
Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

It's not so much the formation as the mentality; the fact we only committed seven fouls, I think, against PSG shows how passive we are in these games. Look at the Bayern game at home, when Bitton pressed aggressively right into their half (to massive cheers from the stand). Obviously every game is different but Anderlecht and Bayern at home aside, it feels like we're just allowing these guys to play football, waiting for the goals, rather than being a bit more in their faces. You can put 11 men in your own box, it won't mean anything if you don't have the correct mindset.

Also, nicked from Etims, look at the nick of our spacing and organisation:

Posted Image

We're not set up right to defend.
Edited by dannyclyro, 24 Nov 2017, 11:43 AM.
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remy mcswain
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dannyclyro
24 Nov 2017, 11:41 AM
Flawless
24 Nov 2017, 11:33 AM
Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

It's not so much the formation as the mentality; the fact we only committed seven fouls, I think, against PSG shows how passive we are in these games. Look at the Bayern game at home, when Bitton pressed aggressively right into their half (to massive cheers from the stand). Obviously every game is different but Anderlecht and Bayern at home aside, it feels like we're just allowing these guys to play football, waiting for the goals, rather than being a bit more in their faces. You can put 11 men in your own box, it won't mean anything if you don't have the correct mindset.

Also, nicked from Etims, look at the nick of our spacing and organisation:

Posted Image

We're not set up right to defend.
Defence fell apart when Lustig went off. We went from a 4 to a 3. Have we ever played a back 3 of Bitton, Boyata and Simunovic? It’s little wonder they were disorganised.
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dannyclyro
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remy mcswain
24 Nov 2017, 11:57 AM
Defence fell apart when Lustig went off. We went from a 4 to a 3. Have we ever played a back 3 of Bitton, Boyata and Simunovic? It’s little wonder they were disorganised.
That's a factor but I'd still expect better than having three of our lads doing the huddle in a space the size of a telephone box, Lustig injury aside.

I understand we are primarily coaching the team on the basis that we have the ball, as that's the scenario they'll find themselves in for 99% of their season; does that mean we can't change it a little bit and spend some more time coaching the side on how to cope with being on the other side of that situation, on how to play well without the ball?

It's not a position we will find ourselves in more than three or four times a season, but when we do find ourselves there we seem to be so, so frail; the players look like they don't know what to do. If we want to avoid more seven-goal-roastings then we may need to sacrifice a bit of our attacking mentality to do so. It doesn't need to be this black or white, pump everybody in the SPL but get pumped in the CL, there's a better middle ground we can find.
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Zurawski 7
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commons forgetting some of the results he was a part of

Quote:
 
By KRIS COMMONS FOR THE SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL

Brendan Rodgers has deserved all of the praise that has come his way since his arrival at Celtic Park due to his team's impressive domestic dominance.

But given he is the highest paid manager in Celtic's history it is the nature of the beast that his record in Europe should come under scrutiny.

And, so far, Brendan has been responsible for Celtic's record defeat, a 7-0 Champions League loss in Barcelona.

He's also overseen the most embarrassing European defeat in the club's continental history, losing away to a Gibraltar pub team called Lincoln Red Imps.

And his Celtic team has won just one game in the Champions League group stages; a 3-0 victory away to Anderlecht on a night when the Belgian champions were well below par.

On Wednesday night, Celtic suffered their latest heavy Champions League reverse when they lost 7-1 away to Paris St Germain.

They also lost 3-0 to a rampant Bayern Munich side, who had over 20 shots on goal and could easily have scored six or seven.

After both of these games, Brendan has tried to look at the positives. But what are the positives in losing 7-1 - or in looking like you are going to ship seven goals?

Of course, when teams like PSG are at the races they can demolish you. That's why their players earn hundreds of thousands of pounds a week.

But when I played for Celtic under Neil Lennon we were able to close the financial gap and compete with the top teams in Europe.

In 2012-13, we beat Spartak Moscow, the Russian champions, home and away, and drew 0-0 at home with the Portuguese champions, Benfica. We could have won that Benfica match.

Barcelona beat us 2-1 in the Nou Camp but their winning goal only came in injury time - and we famously beat them 2-1 in the return at Celtic Park.

That was a really good Barcelona team, too, featuring Lionel Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Alexis Sanchez, and Dani Alves.

In fact, I believe that Barcelona side we beat at Celtic Park are a better team than this current Paris Saint-Germain outfit.

Barca were littered with World Cup winners and were hailed by many as arguably the best club side ever - but we not only competed with them, we beat them.

Under Neil Lennon, we didn't do an Invincible season or win a Treble like Brendan did last season. But we were expected to dominate Scottish football and if we won the league it was simply: 'job done.'

A club like Celtic will always be judged in Europe and competing at that level comes down to managerial skill.

It's about being organised, having a little bit of luck – and players performing out of their skin. In our case, Fraser Forster had a terrific match in goal against Barcelona.

After Paris on Wednesday night, people on Twitter were saying 'Celtic need a new goalkeeper or new defenders' but Brendan probably has better defenders than we had when we beat Barcelona.

That night we had Adam Mathews, Efe Ambrose, Kelvin Wilson and Mikael Lustig. These players weren't worth £20million but they were organised defensively.

So I don't think it's about the personnel. Brendan can't keep saying 'I won't change' when Celtic are losing three goals per game on average in Europe under his management.

He can't keep saying that Celtic are going to play the Celtic Way. The Celtic Way is not losing 7-0 and 7-1!

Something has to change. Everything Brendan does in preparing for domestic matches is about dominating possession, having a high press, keeping the ball, and creating chances.

But Celtic can't do that in Europe. I'm not saying they have to 'park the bus' but they have to be hard to beat. Celtic right now are not hard to beat. Results show that.

Since arriving at Celtic, everything Brendan has asked for he has been given. And the bottom line is a chairman and a board have to see improvement for all the investment that has been made.

Yes, he has taken the club back into the group stages twice. But have they improved enough in Europe?

The fact is many of Brendan's predecessors were able to get big results in Europe.

Martin O'Neill had it against Juventus, Gordon Strachan had it against AC Milan and Manchester United. Neil Lennon had it against Barcelona.

Brendan is still waiting for his big European result. Hopefully that will come in the latter stages of the Europa League.

But it will require a change of approach and some hard work out on the training ground.
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Kingslim
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Flawless
24 Nov 2017, 11:33 AM
Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

I would have went a bit old school to be honest.

two banks of 4

Gordon

Lustig Boyata Jozo KT

Armstong Brown Ntcham Forrest

Dembele

Free role to McGregor or Kouassi to man mark Neymar. Sole job would be to stick to and frustrate that wee rat. Get him to react and even get himself sent of. Stick to him like glue and follow him wherever he goes. Wait outside the dressing room at HT for him - rile him up. Just don't let him breathe.

Forrest/Armstrong could support Dembele on the break.

Binning the Neymar idea it would be two banks of four with Brown sitting with Kouassi in beside Ntcham. 4-1-4-1

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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
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remy mcswain
24 Nov 2017, 11:57 AM
Defence fell apart when Lustig went off. We went from a 4 to a 3. Have we ever played a back 3 of Bitton, Boyata and Simunovic? It’s little wonder they were disorganised.
I felt this way as well. Moreso than Lustig going off, the change in our shape severely hampered us. We were heavily outnumbered in the wide positions (1 wing back, compared to a full-back and a winger), which left gaps on the outside of the defence and, if midfielders moved over to cover, in the middle of the park. We also shifted to a flat midfield 4, which left us with no depth both defensively and offensively. Far too easy to pass around us and too difficult for us to play the ball out of. Rogic in particular vanished from the game when this happened, when he had been previously playing well.

We looked better after going back to a 4-2-3-1 with Bitton at right back, but by then the damage was done. We were evidently knackered, physically and mentally, for the last 15.
Edited by Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick, 24 Nov 2017, 12:43 PM.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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Dare I say it but commons has a point there.
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Tonus
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dannyclyro
24 Nov 2017, 11:41 AM
Flawless
24 Nov 2017, 11:33 AM
Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

It's not so much the formation as the mentality; the fact we only committed seven fouls, I think, against PSG shows how passive we are in these games. Look at the Bayern game at home, when Bitton pressed aggressively right into their half (to massive cheers from the stand). Obviously every game is different but Anderlecht and Bayern at home aside, it feels like we're just allowing these guys to play football, waiting for the goals, rather than being a bit more in their faces. You can put 11 men in your own box, it won't mean anything if you don't have the correct mindset.

Also, nicked from Etims, look at the nick of our spacing and organisation:

Posted Image

We're not set up right to defend.
We've been cut open by the dinked ball over the top time and time again. Not just in the PSG games. Over the last few years Iniesta and co were getting loads of joy with it.

I understand that Messi, Neymar and whoever else have pace but surely we should be learning from these mistakes and having someone stuck to them in these positions. That picture sums up the issue perfectly. For the tap in goal there were two of their players getting in each others' way, both unmarked.
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screwtop
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
24 Nov 2017, 12:42 PM
Dare I say it but commons has a point there.
He is 100% correct.
I remember when Brendan arrived at Celtic Park a friend remarked "Palm Sunday, Palm Sunday"
I laughed then. Now I'm not so sure.
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Zurawski 7
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screwtop
24 Nov 2017, 01:03 PM
MILLIGANS ISLAND
24 Nov 2017, 12:42 PM
Dare I say it but commons has a point there.
He is 100% correct.
I remember when Brendan arrived at Celtic Park a friend remarked "Palm Sunday, Palm Sunday"
I laughed then. Now I'm not so sure.
effing hell :lol:
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Flawless
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Kingslim
24 Nov 2017, 12:32 PM
Flawless
24 Nov 2017, 11:33 AM
Kingslim
23 Nov 2017, 10:12 PM
. We’re still on course for European football but away from home against these sides he needs to be more realistic.







What do you mean here?

How would you have set up?

I would have went a bit old school to be honest.

two banks of 4

Gordon

Lustig Boyata Jozo KT

Armstong Brown Ntcham Forrest

Dembele

Free role to McGregor or Kouassi to man mark Neymar. Sole job would be to stick to and frustrate that wee rat. Get him to react and even get himself sent of. Stick to him like glue and follow him wherever he goes. Wait outside the dressing room at HT for him - rile him up. Just don't let him breathe.

Forrest/Armstrong could support Dembele on the break.

Binning the Neymar idea it would be two banks of four with Brown sitting with Kouassi in beside Ntcham. 4-1-4-1

So, essentially hope to park the bus and hope we can get Neymar sent off?

I would personally have stuck Kouassi in instead of Rogic. But otherwise, the team had to include all the players we had who could try to keep the ball. Armstrong - and I'm one of his biggest fans on here - wasn't suited and according to Brendan wasn't fit.

Rodgers wasn't being unrealistic, he never set the team out the way we play against Hearts, he cobbled together his back four which fell apart after 12 minutes. He had the much vaunted Forrest in for his defensive qualities, McGregor again much vaunted for his ability to keep the ball. Rogic was poor but was in as a link to Dembele.

It's not about realism, it's about a) lack of good defenders b) lack of quality players at this level c) and getting blootered by the inform money rich team in Europe. Who have a razor sharp attack which ruthlessly exploited a) and b)

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Bhoyball
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
24 Nov 2017, 12:42 PM
Dare I say it but commons has a point there.
I'm no having it, We got ripped apart by the best team in the world. yes it was painful and individuals could have performed better. Doesn't mean Rodgers should chuck out his philosophy. It seemed to work just fine against other teams. Not to say he won't tweak it but he and the squad needs time rather than dumping it . Lets get some more games under our belt against "normal" CL teams and see where it takes us.
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