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Brendan Rodgers; "I was born into Celtic"
Topic Started: 20 May 2016, 05:06 PM (2,287,931 Views)
jbj712
Getting on a bit
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macfleeto
19 Oct 2017, 07:20 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 07:12 PM
macfleeto
19 Oct 2017, 06:53 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image

Again, not even remotely in line with what you're claiming.
What use is an individual heat map?
You need to know his positioning in relation to the players around him, in this case Brown and Ntcham in particular.
Roberts and Sinclair might have been forced backwards because of the pressure Bayern subjected us to, but they were selected to take the game to Bayern, or I'm misunderstanding Brendan's idea of playing our game.
If they were meant to be genuine wing backs then Brendan is playing two guys out of position!
Brown and Ntcham's heat maps both show they spent more time in advanced positions that Armstrong did during his time on the park. The very reason he was picked ahead of Rogic was his mobility. The ability to close down players and then get forward during counter attacks. Rodgers even said as much before the game.

When you say that the heat map doesn't matter because it doesn't show where he is in relation to the other players, it actually does matter. It shows that as an attacking midfielder, he's spending most of his time defending - because that's how we're setting up in these games. To defend and hit on the counter.

And yet posters on here are asking for us to play defensive and hit on the counter instead of what we're doing already....which is what they're asking for :doh:
So that's now three players being asked to something that they are not really capable of, namely Roberts, Sinclair and Armstrong. All being asked to defend, when they hardly ever tackle, make interceptions or get goal side of opponents :lol:
Mr Stein put it very simply "don't ask players to do things they can't!"
All this against one of the top half dozen teams in Europe.
No wonder we were lucky it was only 3-0!
Brendan talks about being aggressive in our defending, there was diddly squat of that last night which ranks as one of our poorest performances in Europe
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Kingslim
69 and counting
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Jack Thaler
19 Oct 2017, 06:55 PM
macfleeto
19 Oct 2017, 06:53 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 06:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Dunno what game you're watching but Sinclair and Roberts effectively play as wing backs in these games, not as wingers.

As for Armstrong, here's his heat map from last night

Posted Image

Again, not even remotely in line with what you're claiming.
Pfftt, facts.

Blame the manager.
I think that’s more to do with Bayern pinning us in our own half, rather than a defensive approach.
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justin thyme
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Don`t ask players to do things they can`t - exactly from the great man`s mouth
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Novelty_Bauble
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jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 08:25 PM
macfleeto
19 Oct 2017, 07:20 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 07:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Brown and Ntcham's heat maps both show they spent more time in advanced positions that Armstrong did during his time on the park. The very reason he was picked ahead of Rogic was his mobility. The ability to close down players and then get forward during counter attacks. Rodgers even said as much before the game.

When you say that the heat map doesn't matter because it doesn't show where he is in relation to the other players, it actually does matter. It shows that as an attacking midfielder, he's spending most of his time defending - because that's how we're setting up in these games. To defend and hit on the counter.

And yet posters on here are asking for us to play defensive and hit on the counter instead of what we're doing already....which is what they're asking for :doh:
So that's now three players being asked to something that they are not really capable of, namely Roberts, Sinclair and Armstrong. All being asked to defend, when they hardly ever tackle, make interceptions or get goal side of opponents :lol:
Mr Stein put it very simply "don't ask players to do things they can't!"
All this against one of the top half dozen teams in Europe.
No wonder we were lucky it was only 3-0!
Brendan talks about being aggressive in our defending, there was diddly squat of that last night which ranks as one of our poorest performances in Europe
Which players would you have picked who would have stopped Kimmich, Alaba, Robben and Coman?
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jbj712
Getting on a bit
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Novelty_Bauble
19 Oct 2017, 08:51 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 08:25 PM
macfleeto
19 Oct 2017, 07:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
So that's now three players being asked to something that they are not really capable of, namely Roberts, Sinclair and Armstrong. All being asked to defend, when they hardly ever tackle, make interceptions or get goal side of opponents :lol:
Mr Stein put it very simply "don't ask players to do things they can't!"
All this against one of the top half dozen teams in Europe.
No wonder we were lucky it was only 3-0!
Brendan talks about being aggressive in our defending, there was diddly squat of that last night which ranks as one of our poorest performances in Europe
Which players would you have picked who would have stopped Kimmich, Alaba, Robben and Coman?
I certainly wouldn't have played both Roberts and Sinclair.
Forrest works harder defensively than Roberts, so him on the right.
Britton ahead of Armstrong and told to sit in front of the two CBS
Dembele ahead of Griffiths as he has a bigger physical presence which might have helped defending those pesky set pieces.
I doubt if we would have done much better but we might have made Bayern work harder to score.
Brendan wanted to impose our game on them, does anyone really think that feasible with the players we have?
If it isn't then he needs to do something else or we risk becoming an embarrassment. Last night if Bayern had had to score 8 to go through they would have had a decent shout at getting them.
Is that really want people want a CFC team to be?
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katlegend
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In Europe you have to keep the ball & defend well. We don’t have the personnel to do either irrespective of tactics or team selection. Where we have to be much more aggressive is in the transfer windows. Absolutely no progress has been made in the last 2 windows which is very disappointing. Last nights performance & result was pretty predictable. Did anyone really expect much better all things considered?
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Zurawski 7
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jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 08:25 PM
= that last night which ranks as one of our poorest performances in Europe
not even close to worst 5 in the last 3 years nevermind further back
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puroresu_boy
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I'm not sure player selection really was an issue. The issue was we couldn't get into the shape the manager wanted. The basics of not being keeping the ball meant the players couldn't really get into the positions required. Bayern were so quick to get the ball and so quick coming at us that we were just frantically trying to keep up.

If we can keep the ball for longer the team can actually press up the pitch as a unit and actually get into the right places to block channels and then when we have transition from defence to attack and vice versa we actually look like a unit.

Edited by puroresu_boy, 19 Oct 2017, 09:13 PM.
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Kingslim
69 and counting
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katlegend
19 Oct 2017, 09:03 PM
In Europe you have to keep the ball & defend well. We don’t have the personnel to do either irrespective of tactics or team selection. Where we have to be much more aggressive is in the transfer windows. Absolutely no progress has been made in the last 2 windows which is very disappointing. Last nights performance & result was pretty predictable. Did anyone really expect much better all things considered?
We could spend 100 million and still ended up with that result last night.

We’re starting to sound like Huns in the 90’s - chasing the dream

Bayern away is not the platform to slaughter our players. We need to start competing at home.
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Jinkys 7
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katlegend
19 Oct 2017, 09:03 PM
Did anyone really expect much better all things considered?
We are 2 points better off than we were at the same stage last season having played 1 home game more. Also, we are in a great position for potential European football after Christmas.

All things considered, compared to last year, that's much better.
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jimmy123411
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All because we lost 3 nil & 5 nil to the possible winners of the champions league.

European football after christmas was always the target which is the europa league.


Edited by jimmy123411, 19 Oct 2017, 09:11 PM.
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Willie Wonka
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katlegend
19 Oct 2017, 09:03 PM
In Europe you have to keep the ball & defend well. We don’t have the personnel to do either irrespective of tactics or team selection. Where we have to be much more aggressive is in the transfer windows. Absolutely no progress has been made in the last 2 windows which is very disappointing. Last nights performance & result was pretty predictable. Did anyone really expect much better all things considered?
I think most of us expected to be on the back foot, outclassed and gubbed. It's the fact that the goals, or at least two of them were so bloody simple that's so annoying about last night. We just about coped with their general play but lost simple goals. Even the second they were queuing up.
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jpkm1234
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jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 09:01 PM
Novelty_Bauble
19 Oct 2017, 08:51 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Which players would you have picked who would have stopped Kimmich, Alaba, Robben and Coman?
I certainly wouldn't have played both Roberts and Sinclair.
Forrest works harder defensively than Roberts, so him on the right.
Britton ahead of Armstrong and told to sit in front of the two CBS
Dembele ahead of Griffiths as he has a bigger physical presence which might have helped defending those pesky set pieces.
I doubt if we would have done much better but we might have made Bayern work harder to score.
Brendan wanted to impose our game on them, does anyone really think that feasible with the players we have?
If it isn't then he needs to do something else or we risk becoming an embarrassment. Last night if Bayern had had to score 8 to go through they would have had a decent shout at getting them.
Is that really want people want a CFC team to be?
Whatever happens I have faith in Brendan. No matter what you or I think, Brendan knows better. When you consider what he has achieved in the blink of an eye I don't think he deserves to be questioned. More of the same please domestically and as someone else said Man City took 5 years to just get out of the group stages with all their millions that tells me that we have a long way to go. As I have said before just enjoy being at the top table, it's nice to be involved at this level and playing teams that are the creme de la creme.
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ssmith81
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Of course we were set up to counter :lol:

In the first 15 minutes alone we broke on them 2/3 times and if wasn’t for a poor final ball would have created decent chances.
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IainG
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This debate is going round in circles now.

We need to take it on the chin and move on!

;) :lol:
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jimmy123411
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St Mirren was good ol tony's bayern :cannaewatch:

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Novelty_Bauble
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jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 09:01 PM
Novelty_Bauble
19 Oct 2017, 08:51 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 08:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Which players would you have picked who would have stopped Kimmich, Alaba, Robben and Coman?
I certainly wouldn't have played both Roberts and Sinclair.
Forrest works harder defensively than Roberts, so him on the right.
Britton ahead of Armstrong and told to sit in front of the two CBS
Dembele ahead of Griffiths as he has a bigger physical presence which might have helped defending those pesky set pieces.
I doubt if we would have done much better but we might have made Bayern work harder to score.
Brendan wanted to impose our game on them, does anyone really think that feasible with the players we have?
If it isn't then he needs to do something else or we risk becoming an embarrassment. Last night if Bayern had had to score 8 to go through they would have had a decent shout at getting them.
Is that really want people want a CFC team to be?
Forrest was on the park for 15 minutes against PSG and we lost two goals, one of which came from him allowing their left back a free cross into our box. He was scared to go near Neymar in case he got skinned. Maybe harsh on someone who only came on as a sub but this myth about his defending ability is getting beyond a joke on here.

Armstrong was chosen for his legs last night, which I can understand. I agree it didn't work though, just as it didn't against PSG. That said, we would have been camped in even deeper with Bitton playing and less chance of an out ball in midfield.

I can understand why Roberts and Sinclair played. They are arguably our two best players in terms of technical ability and you always need someone to try and get up the park with pace and take some pressure off in those games.

Agree about Dembele. He's far better suited to that type of game than Griffiths. Greater physical presence and better at holding the ball up. He hasn't been great lately though and I didn't hear too many complaints about Griffiths starting before the game.

No, I don't think it's feasible to impose our game on Bayern or PSG with the players we have. We are trying to play a similar style to these sides and if we go head to head, then there is only one winner. However, folk on here are going on as if we went gung ho and tried to outplay Bayern, which is simply not true. We also don't have the personnel capable of camping out in our box and limiting Bayern to one or two chances.

Personally I would prefer that we stick with Rodgers philosophy and try to build a more solid team over time. We have to find a balance between a side who can break down spl sides and one who can dig in against the likes of Bayern. It won't happen overnight and I don't think we need any knee jerk reactions. We have folk on here who want to play 5-5-0 in Europe now.
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jbj712
Getting on a bit
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Don't think anyone is wanting to either bin Brendan or go 5-5-0. :lol:
My gripe is given the missing personnel like Jozo and Kouassi, we needed to be more solid. Certainly Brendan talked about playing our own game and to me that's just not feasible against teams like PSG and Bayern.
I still think that we let the travelling support down and that it was a really poor performance.
Much as I like what Brendan has done for us, I have watched enough football in my near 60 years to recognise what works and what doesn't.
I wouldn't want to be like that little shampoo Mourinho entirely but I would like Brendan to take a little of his consummate pragmatism to heart for away ties in the CL :thumbsup:
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Zurawski 7
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jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 10:31 PM

Much as I like what Brendan has done for us, I have watched enough football in my near 60 years to recognise what works and what doesn't.
I wouldn't want to be like that little shampoo Mourinho entirely but I would like Brendan to take a little of his consummate pragmatism to heart for away ties in the CL :thumbsup:
we have had 5 away ties in the cl group stage under brendan. 2 defeats 2 draws and 1 win

id say hes doing alright compared to the more pragmatci mons 8 defeats and 1 draw and strachans 9 defeats out of 9
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Henrik Larsson
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Zurawski 7
19 Oct 2017, 10:44 PM
jbj712
19 Oct 2017, 10:31 PM

Much as I like what Brendan has done for us, I have watched enough football in my near 60 years to recognise what works and what doesn't.
I wouldn't want to be like that little shampoo Mourinho entirely but I would like Brendan to take a little of his consummate pragmatism to heart for away ties in the CL :thumbsup:
we have had 5 away ties in the cl group stage under brendan. 2 defeats 2 draws and 1 win

id say hes doing alright compared to the more pragmatci mons 8 defeats and 1 draw and strachans 9 defeats out of 9
Very hard to compare as all different eras with different finances and players. MON's time brought the best European nights but he had biggest budget and a genuine world class player. We could beat anyone at home with WGS and took AC Millan to extra time in last 16 who went on to win competition. Rodgers seems to be trying to implement a style at all cost and is being patient but maybe his best results will come after christmas in europa against proper competition and not these super clubs who are spoiling football. :thumbsup:
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