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Brendan Rodgers; "I was born into Celtic"
Topic Started: 20 May 2016, 05:06 PM (2,288,252 Views)
Bobby Peru
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Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I tend to agree with this.

I would have left Roberts our and played a stronger midfield (Armstrong probably in with brown and Bitton) to really limit the space they had and just rely on Sinclair and Dembele on the counter
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Ned Rise
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Pretty evident from the scoreline he got it disastrously wrong.

On the transfer deadline day, people were saying how great it all was as a window. However, Rodgers clearly wanted a midfielder to play the game his way. He didn't arrive. It's easy enough to say that one player wouldn't have made a difference, but if that player was a young Victor Wanyama for example, then we know that it would make a difference.

Same with the goalie. There's no way on the evidence that De Vries was his first choice goalkeeper. Whoever it was fell through and Rodgers had decided Gordon wasn't good enough, so we signed a stop gap. That's the way I see it at the moment - nothing about Dorus inspires confidence.

When you're playing a team like Barca, when all else fails, you have a last line of defence who is allowed to use his hands to stop the ball going in. Dorus didn't seem to want to take advantage of that.

Being good with your feet is of less use to Celtic in the Nou Camp than someone who can command his area and save shots. Forster was called the great wall by the Spanish press, not because of his footwork, but because without him we'd have been looking at conceding a similar amount to Tuesday night.

Simply put, Forster saved almost everything that came his way and Dorus conceded almost everything that came his way.

I'd also say that we have to bed in the system that we're going to play in Europe. If Gamboa isn't a defender, don't play him at right back. It might be okay for the SPL but Champions League teams of the calibre we're up against will see the weakness and rip us to shreds.

Get Lustig in. If Simunovic is fit after all, then get him playing beside Toure and Erik. And if there's a great goalie out there who's out of contract for some reason, get him in.
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warbleshinney
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Bobby Peru
15 Sep 2016, 10:44 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I tend to agree with this.

I would have left Roberts our and played a stronger midfield (Armstrong probably in with brown and Bitton) to really limit the space they had and just rely on Sinclair and Dembele on the counter
Yes

would agree with this. We needed one more 'energetic' central midfielder to crowd out their one-twos and little chips.

Roberts, Dembele and Sinclair was too optimistic. A twosome of Dembele and Sinclair would have better, still a threat, albeit a small one as Barcelona retain possession so well. Armstrong could then have started alongside Bitton and Brown (not the ideal defensive wall but we don't have many alternative defensive midfielders.

For all who say that it is a learning process, sometimes the lessons are not learnt. Our last bad away defeat against Barcelona, the 6-1 match under Neil Lennon in 2013 we started with 3 attack minded players Pukki, Samaras and Boerrigter and got well beat.

In 2012 under Lennon we had a very creditable 2-1 defeat, just losing out in injury times. That day we had Mulgrew, Brown, Wanyama and Ledley starting in midfield with only 2 attack minded players Samaras and Hooper.
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Finn1888
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Ned Rise
15 Sep 2016, 11:09 AM
Same with the goalie. There's no way on the evidence that De Vries was his first choice goalkeeper. Whoever it was fell through and Rodgers had decided Gordon wasn't good enough, so we signed a stop gap. That's the way I see it at the moment - nothing about Dorus inspires confidence.
Not sure about De Vries being a stopgap - BR tried to sign him at Liverpool too so obviously rates him highly (bewildering why). He was probably 1st choice.
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warbleshinney
15 Sep 2016, 11:10 AM
Bobby Peru
15 Sep 2016, 10:44 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I tend to agree with this.

I would have left Roberts our and played a stronger midfield (Armstrong probably in with brown and Bitton) to really limit the space they had and just rely on Sinclair and Dembele on the counter
Yes

would agree with this. We needed one more 'energetic' central midfielder to crowd out their one-twos and little chips.

Roberts, Dembele and Sinclair was too optimistic. A twosome of Dembele and Sinclair would have better, still a threat, albeit a small one as Barcelona retain possession so well. Armstrong could then have started alongside Bitton and Brown (not the ideal defensive wall but we don't have many alternative defensive midfielders.

For all who say that it is a learning process, sometimes the lessons are not learnt. Our last bad away defeat against Barcelona, the 6-1 match under Neil Lennon in 2013 we started with 3 attack minded players Pukki, Samaras and Boerrigter and got well beat.

In 2012 under Lennon we had a very creditable 2-1 defeat, just losing out in injury times. That day we had Mulgrew, Brown, Wanyama and Ledley starting in midfield with only 2 attack minded players Samaras and Hooper.
We had plenty of options, we could have played Forrest,Brown,Bitton,Armstrong,Sinclair and still had Rogic, McGregor and Roberts on the bench whereas the 6-1 game we struggled to put a team out.
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DKB
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Finn1888
15 Sep 2016, 11:13 AM
Ned Rise
15 Sep 2016, 11:09 AM
Same with the goalie. There's no way on the evidence that De Vries was his first choice goalkeeper. Whoever it was fell through and Rodgers had decided Gordon wasn't good enough, so we signed a stop gap. That's the way I see it at the moment - nothing about Dorus inspires confidence.
Not sure about De Vries being a stopgap - BR tried to sign him at Liverpool too so obviously rates him highly (bewildering why). He was probably 1st choice.
Pretty sure that Danny Ward is BR long term (was the keeper that BR wanted as first choice in the summer) target as our nr 1 keeper, if Liverpool is interested in selling

http://www.90min.com/posts/3441394-celtic-boss-brendan-rodgers-interested-in-his-former-liverpool-goalkeeper-danny-ward
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katlegend
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I've been delighted with Rodgers & fully appreciate how bad a side we were when he took over. It also has to be remembered how little time & money he's had so far. We are clearly a much better side, domestically,than we were & just getting us through the qualifiers was no small task. However there is no doubt that he got his tactics badly wrong on Tuesday & it is surprising that he was that adventurous to the point of being naive. 3 of our 4 away performances in Europe so far have been awful & we were hardly impressive in Astana. He also had a poor record in Europe with Liverpool & we've yet to have our first clean sheet in the SPL. Hopefully he and the team will go on to show that they've learned from this experience but he definitely needs proper backing. Going into the Champions League so short in midfield & with 2 biscuit tin goalkeepers to choose from is not acceptable. But we have to improve defensible as well.
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Kingslim
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needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
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BardseyCelt
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Ned Rise
15 Sep 2016, 11:09 AM
Pretty evident from the scoreline he got it disastrously wrong.

On the transfer deadline day, people were saying how great it all was as a window. However, Rodgers clearly wanted a midfielder to play the game his way. He didn't arrive. It's easy enough to say that one player wouldn't have made a difference, but if that player was a young Victor Wanyama for example, then we know that it would make a difference.

Same with the goalie. There's no way on the evidence that De Vries was his first choice goalkeeper. Whoever it was fell through and Rodgers had decided Gordon wasn't good enough, so we signed a stop gap. That's the way I see it at the moment - nothing about Dorus inspires confidence.

When you're playing a team like Barca, when all else fails, you have a last line of defence who is allowed to use his hands to stop the ball going in. Dorus didn't seem to want to take advantage of that.

Being good with your feet is of less use to Celtic in the Nou Camp than someone who can command his area and save shots. Forster was called the great wall by the Spanish press, not because of his footwork, but because without him we'd have been looking at conceding a similar amount to Tuesday night.

Simply put, Forster saved almost everything that came his way and Dorus conceded almost everything that came his way.

I'd also say that we have to bed in the system that we're going to play in Europe. If Gamboa isn't a defender, don't play him at right back. It might be okay for the SPL but Champions League teams of the calibre we're up against will see the weakness and rip us to shreds.

Get Lustig in. If Simunovic is fit after all, then get him playing beside Toure and Erik. And if there's a great goalie out there who's out of contract for some reason, get him in.
Agreed re. the keeper. I think the first choice was possibly Vorm (would have been a brilliant signing) but that injury to Lloris killed it.
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DKB
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM
needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
when was the last manager that had us winning "big" away games in Europe on a regular basis?
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ticcy_paper
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM
needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
Cause we've always been great away in Europe :cuckoo:
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Govan Super Casino
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM
needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
I don't think he knows how to set up a team not to lose. Lennon did it well, but struggled when we were expected to win. Rodgers needs to learn how to. It was the same with Liverpool, he always wanted to win games, we need to learn how grind games out.
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Kingslim
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ticcy_paper
15 Sep 2016, 11:39 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM
needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
Cause we've always been great away in Europe :cuckoo:
What does that have to do with BR?

:comp: :comp:
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 10:40 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
we played 4-4-2 when we beat them at CP.
As far as I remember, we had a defence of Lustig Ambrose Wilson Mulgrew Mathews.

Edit - Miku was up front on his own - we certainly never went with 2 strikers either.
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Kingslim
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Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 11:42 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 10:40 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
we played 4-4-2 when we beat them at CP.
As far as I remember, we had a defence of Lustig Ambrose Wilson Mulgrew Mathews.

Edit - Miku was up front on his own - we certainly never went with 2 strikers either.
Mulgrew was at LM.

We played Miku and Sammy up front.

Could have been 4-4-1-1 but both played high up the park
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ticcy_paper
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:42 AM
ticcy_paper
15 Sep 2016, 11:39 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM
needs to deliver an away performance in Europe.

we've not been good in any away games yet.

This was always my fear with Rodgers to be honest.
Cause we've always been great away in Europe :cuckoo:
What does that have to do with BR?

:comp: :comp:
Endemic failure away from home in Europe won't be fixed by Rodgers overnight
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:46 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 11:42 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 10:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As far as I remember, we had a defence of Lustig Ambrose Wilson Mulgrew Mathews.

Edit - Miku was up front on his own - we certainly never went with 2 strikers either.
Mulgrew was at LM.

We played Miku and Sammy up front.

Could have been 4-4-1-1 but both played high up the park
It was 4-4-1-1, Matthews played LB.
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Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:46 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 11:42 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 10:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As far as I remember, we had a defence of Lustig Ambrose Wilson Mulgrew Mathews.

Edit - Miku was up front on his own - we certainly never went with 2 strikers either.
Mulgrew was at LM.

We played Miku and Sammy up front.

Could have been 4-4-1-1 but both played high up the park
Apologies - looks like you're right! :thumbsup:

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Kingslim
69 and counting
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ticcy_paper
15 Sep 2016, 11:48 AM
Kingslim
15 Sep 2016, 11:42 AM
ticcy_paper
15 Sep 2016, 11:39 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What does that have to do with BR?

:comp: :comp:
Endemic failure away from home in Europe won't be fixed by Rodgers overnight
We've played Imps, Astana and Hapoel away and been beyond hopeless in two of those matches and a little fortunate in the other.

Throw in a 7-0 Mauling and it's been far from convincing.

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Still looks to me like we had a back 5 though. This is a still frame early second half of the match, I don't know who is the RB position, but you can see Lustig tucked in as a CB

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