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Brendan Rodgers; "I was born into Celtic"
Topic Started: 20 May 2016, 05:06 PM (2,288,253 Views)
jbj712
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Last night was perhaps a bit of a reality check for some who were beginning to go overboard on Brendan's abilities after last Saturday.
One of my concerns is his belief in playing a very open style of football. That's great when you have far better players than your opposition but a recipe for disaster when you are up against teamsthathave better players than we have.
The qualifiers proved yet again that we lack proper defensive midfielders who know how to play without the ball.
We now face two more really tough away games where we run the risk of being opened up yet again.
BMG and Citeh might not have the exquisite skill of Barca but they have pace, power and no little skill!
There is no evidence to suggest that Brendan can change things very much before those games.
My biggest fear is that he shows no real interest in trying to sign the type of players that we would need to make us more difficult to play against!
Hope that I'm well off the mark!
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georgiesleftpeg
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The fact he seemed to be trying to push the boat out for McCarthy suggest he knows the problem, but his insistence on playing with a back five, instead of a 3-5-2, was a bit worrying.
Surely crowding out the middle of the park was the way to go last night?
Playing with two wingers (ok, Sinclair was floating) was a tad arrogant at the Camp Nou, methinks :ponder:
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TheSaint
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georgiesleftpeg
14 Sep 2016, 06:23 PM
The fact he seemed to be trying to push the boat out for McCarthy suggest he knows the problem, but his insistence on playing with a back five, instead of a 3-5-2, was a bit worrying.
Surely crowding out the middle of the park was the way to go last night?
Playing with two wingers (ok, Sinclair was floating) was a tad arrogant at the Camp Nou, methinks :ponder:
3-5-2? Are you mad? That would have given them even more room in behind and good chance they would have reached double figures!
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PM67
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Interesting start for the bold Brendan. We've seen undoubtedly our best domestic start to a season in a long time and we've reached the Champions League.

Yet we've had our biggest ever Euro defeat and one of the most embarrassing results in our history in Gibralter.

Still love him though. :wub:
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kellybhoy
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One of the things I have admired about Brendan is the emphasis he puts on mentally preparing the players for each game. For this reason I was totally disappointed in some of his statements prior to the game, especially this one "We could park two buses and we wouldn't be able to stop their front three." Sorry, but to me that sends the players out with the expectation they are going to get humped. You have to believe you can give them a game, otherwise you end up just watching them play, like we did for most of the game.
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Jinkys 7
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hazy
14 Sep 2016, 12:40 AM
Someone said on the match thread that Brendan and the team will learn more tonight than in a 1000 spl games, and I think that's spot on.

Not an acceptable result but not one I'm planning on losing any sleep over
Agreed.

RE: the link with the Barnsley midfielder - tempt them in to a swap deal with Janko going in opposite direction. :ph43r:
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rightsaidted
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TheSaint
14 Sep 2016, 06:51 PM
georgiesleftpeg
14 Sep 2016, 06:23 PM
The fact he seemed to be trying to push the boat out for McCarthy suggest he knows the problem, but his insistence on playing with a back five, instead of a 3-5-2, was a bit worrying.
Surely crowding out the middle of the park was the way to go last night?
Playing with two wingers (ok, Sinclair was floating) was a tad arrogant at the Camp Nou, methinks :ponder:
3-5-2? Are you mad? That would have given them even more room in behind and good chance they would have reached double figures!
Brendan taking a bit of stick (other blogs) for not doing what Neil did when we beat them 2-1. Ie pack the middle and usher the attacking players down the wings. Don't let them come inside.

When we beat them neither Suarez or Neymar were playing (and Pique was on the bench.) The goals last night came from effin everywhere. This Barcelona team are a much more lethal outfit than the one we beat - as they should be. Rich feckers!

This greedy system is going to hit the wall soon though. They screwed us a lot more than 7-0 when they switched the CL to BT Sport. And a lot of people are dumping sky. The whole UEFA / FIFA thing is rank rotten. Ffs, the two guys who presented the European trophies to victorious teams over the last decade have just been found to be thieves, stealing millions from football.

Brendan can be the best manager on the planet but he's farting against thunder.



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HenryClarson
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HenryClarson
11 Sep 2016, 04:57 AM
I like his decisiveness. He makes adjustments with a confidence which spreads to the players and they perform better because they understand what he wants and they also believe in it. That's a very refreshing change.

He's not wasted much time getting rid of the duds and bringing in much better players to replace them.

So far, so good.

Up to this point, however, we've only really beaten sides that we ought to be beating. It remains to be seen whether he's got that extra element that will enable the team to punch above its weight against the giants in the way that MON, WGS and NL managed to accomplish. We'll get an indication of that at the Nou Camp.

It's a big concern that clean sheets are still few and far between, even against the likes of St. Johnstone, Sevco and Aberdeen. I'll be very interested to see if he's capable of setting us up to resist teams that will dominate us for most of the game. It may not be pretty to watch but I'd far rather have a smash-and-grab one goal win over Man Utd or Barca with a disciplined, well organised, backs-to-the-wall display than watch us suffer another humiliating 6-1 hammering.

If he can deliver on that level, then we'll have good reason to believe that he's special.
:(
Nope. He failed to deliver.

I think he tried to be too clever when he should have been far more pragmatic.
It's simply reckless to experiment with an unfamiliar defensive system against Barcelona at the Nou Camp in the Champions League, especially when one of the key components is making his club debut and wouldn't even have known his teammates' names until last Friday.
I'm not remotely impressed with the goalkeeper either.

I didn't expect anything other than a comfortable Barcelona win but at the same time I don't accept that we were powerless to prevent a seven goal margin. There are defensive flaws in Celtic's team which even St. Johnstone, Red Imps and Sevco can exploit far too easily and the problems are not being solved. Ball-watching is an obvious one for a start. If we can't keep clean sheets against SPFL teams, we'll ship dozens of goals in this European campaign. That's one thing that John Collins was absolutely right about.

There's something fundamentally wrong with Celtic's mentality in European away ties. I'm sad to see that it's continuing under the latest manager and even sadder to see that there's no indication that he's on top of the issue. Last night wasn't a blip that can be written off and forgotten about. It was the logical and wholly foreseeable continuation of a long series of rotten results abroad and I don't expect that to improve any time soon because good defending (and competent goalkeeping) is evidently far too low on our coaching priorities.



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Stringer Bell
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I just don't think being pragmatic is part of Brendan's makeup. Adding an extra defender and taking out Rogic isn't necessarily improving our defending, in the same way Mowbrays tactic of taking off all the defenders and throwing on strikers any time we lost a goal didn't make us more lethal in attack.
In hindsight, we'd have been far better served adding an extra midfielder and keeping 4 at the back the other night. Or, if he wanted 5 at the back that's fine but extra numbers don't help when there isn't a clear defensive plan, which we had when we beat them and, as someone pointed out in the match thread, Italy had at the euros.
He'll learn from it. I doubt he's ever had to set up a team to defend in his life before.
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HenryClarson
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The point that was made earlier in the thread about Italy's well-disciplined defensive formation is a very strong and pertinent one. (Sorry, I forget who made it.) It's something that's struck me very strongly whenever I've watched us playing Italian teams, especially AC Milan. It's not some uniquely Italian genetic trait; it's the result of good coaching and hard work. That's the sort of thing that a club with Celtic's wage expenditure should expect in every game and I can't see any excuse for the perennial failure to deliver it.

If pragmatism isn't part of BR's make-up, we'll get ridden raw in all of the remaining CL matches, including the home ties.
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Hagi Bhoy
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Maybe it was Brendan who was overawed by the Occassion and not just the players.

He changed formation to a 5-4-1 which we haven't used before. He put a new guy into a game he probably wasn't ready for. He talks about always changing things quickly if he sees them but it was obvious very early on that the back 5 wasn't working.

An off night for the manager IMO. But of course we can't be too harsh given the start we've had.
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Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
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katlegend
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Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I was surprised at the selection of both Gamboa & Roberts. Neither should have played. I understand wanting to play 5 at the back so probably Lustig at right back & bringing O'Connel in would have been better. I heard Neil Lennon on Talksport on Tuesday saying that you really need your goalkeeper to play well in these games & that is very true. We need to invest in a proper goalkeeper for next season that's for sure. How much was Forster sold for & how much have we spent on trying to replace him? There you go then.
Edited by katlegend, 15 Sep 2016, 06:54 AM.
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katlegend
15 Sep 2016, 06:52 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I was surprised at the selection of both Gamboa & Roberts. Neither should have played. I understand wanting to play 5 at the back so probably Lustig at right back & bringing O'Connel in would have been better. I heard Neil Lennon on Talksport on Tuesday saying that you really need your goalkeeper to play well in these games & that is very true. We need to invest in a proper goalkeeper for next season that's for sure. How much was Forster sold for & how much have we spent on trying to replace him? There you go then.
I think the thinking behind Gomboa was he has actual pace, Lustig would be done on the flanks. I think he also wanted as much experience in the middle as possible, so Lustic of O'Connell.

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cautherbhoy
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It will be interesting to see how we do against Man City and BMG, I'm fearing the worst and hoping for the best. I really do hope that was a one of freak result
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green_equals_silver
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katlegend
15 Sep 2016, 06:52 AM
Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
I was surprised at the selection of both Gamboa & Roberts. Neither should have played. I understand wanting to play 5 at the back so probably Lustig at right back & bringing O'Connel in would have been better. I heard Neil Lennon on Talksport on Tuesday saying that you really need your goalkeeper to play well in these games & that is very true. We need to invest in a proper goalkeeper for next season that's for sure. How much was Forster sold for & how much have we spent on trying to replace him? There you go then.
I may be purely speculating but I have a feeling there may be a clause in Roberts' loan contract that he has to start CL games for his (and Man City's) development
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Govan Super Casino
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Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
No he didn't and even Rodgers said teams don't play back 5's against Barca.
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georgiesleftpeg
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And now we know why :ph43r:
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DKB
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Getting on a bit
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Paul Allen
14 Sep 2016, 04:20 PM
Someone said it in the pre-match thread but theoretically a least - though obviously it's different in an actual game - playing 3/5 at the back is the wrong move against a 4-3-3. You end up with too many spare men in defence and not enough bodies elsewhere (midfield), which is even more pronounced against a side who don't use a proper centre-forward The back 3 were often standing in a line with no one to mark, with Barca's runners coming from deep. Would have made more sense to pack midfield but as others have said, not many options there. It also might not have made much difference to the fact they looked frightened by the occasion.
playing 3 in the back when facing a 433 with wingers, leaves you with spare men in defence

playing 3 in the back when facing a 433 with 3 forwards leaves you with one defender to each forward - big difference (Messi/Lustig-Toure/Suarez-Sviatchenko/Neymaar) - our full backs should then take care of their full backs bombarding forwards, which leads to the place where BR failed

Brown and Bitton vs Rakitic/Iniesta + Gomes + Busquets, with pretty much all 3 of the forwards moving in between defense and midfield
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Kingslim
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Cisnox
15 Sep 2016, 06:40 AM
Didn't Lennon play 5-4-1 against Barcelona? The reason it's used is because they don't cross the ball, so you play 3 in the middle to try and keep them out wide with no way in.

I dont think there was any other way to set up, the players just didn't play well.
we played 4-4-2 when we beat them at CP.
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