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Stuart Armstrong; 'Fishel: Signs for Southampton on a 4 year deal.
Topic Started: 18 Oct 2015, 09:50 PM (731,264 Views)
YoungKiSungYeung
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That's only an issue because he loses the ball every time he gets it. A sham of a man.
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Patrick_Bateman
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He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
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jpkm1234
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Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
:thumbsup: bang on, not just on but bang on. :lol:
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Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
Neither are Rogic or Allan but I'd start them on the left ahead of Armstrong.

For the 100th time, Armstrong played on the left, not wide left, for us and for other teams before. It's just people scrambling for something to blame the manager for, it's boring.
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McStay
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Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
But... but he played for United there!

Of course that logic is absolutely ludicrous. Charlie Mulgrew played midfield for Celtic. He's never a midfielder. Dylan McGeouch played right back ffs.
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McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM
Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
But... but he played for United there!

Of course that logic is absolutely ludicrous. Charlie Mulgrew played midfield for Celtic. He's never a midfielder. Dylan McGeouch played right back ffs.
mulgrew was a midfielder though, right through most of the ranks at celtic. hes better there than centre half also

armstrong has played central a good few times for celtic and managed to play poorer than on the left
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McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM
Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
But... but he played for United there!

Of course that logic is absolutely ludicrous. Charlie Mulgrew played midfield for Celtic. He's never a midfielder. Dylan McGeouch played right back ffs.
But....... he played there for his previous club, has spent a year there for us, isn't being played as a winger and can't pass a ball no matter if he's central or on the left.

Charlie Mulgrew has put in some very good performances for Celtic in MF. Some very bad ones too but I've seen him play better in CM than Armstrong.
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McStay
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Zurawski 7
21 Feb 2016, 08:38 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM
Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
But... but he played for United there!

Of course that logic is absolutely ludicrous. Charlie Mulgrew played midfield for Celtic. He's never a midfielder. Dylan McGeouch played right back ffs.
mulgrew was a midfielder though, right through most of the ranks at celtic. hes better there than centre half also

armstrong has played central a good few times for celtic and managed to play poorer than on the left
I thought he was a left back. That's where he played when we signed him again anyway. Regardless, you kinda back up my point. People would look at see somebody like Mulgrew playing in a certain position and think well that must be his position. It isn't necessarily the case. Armstrong may have played on the left side for United but that doesn't mean his game isn't more suited to playing in a central role for Celtic. Exact same applies to Allan.

I'd agree with Mulgrew being better at CM than CB but only because it means there's somebody behind him to cover when he inevitably gets turned. His ideal position would be a back up LB/CB.
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McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:44 PM
Zurawski 7
21 Feb 2016, 08:38 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
mulgrew was a midfielder though, right through most of the ranks at celtic. hes better there than centre half also

armstrong has played central a good few times for celtic and managed to play poorer than on the left
I thought he was a left back. That's where he played when we signed him again anyway. Regardless, you kinda back up my point. People would look at see somebody like Mulgrew playing in a certain position and think well that must be his position. It isn't necessarily the case. Armstrong may have played on the left side for United but that doesn't mean his game isn't more suited to playing in a central role for Celtic. Exact same applies to Allan.

I'd agree with Mulgrew being better at CM than CB but only because it means there's somebody behind him to cover when he inevitably gets turned. His ideal position would be a back up LB/CB.
Mulgrew played CB and LB at Aberdeen
I think everyone sees him as a utility player
He won POTY at CB, mostly
Allan says his preferred position is left of the 3 behind a striker
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21 Feb 2016, 08:40 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM
Patrick_Bateman
21 Feb 2016, 08:26 PM
He's just lost on the wing. He has none of the abilities required to be a winger. I think he's potentially a decent option in midfield, or as a number 10, but his confidence is shot and should be starting on the bench.
But... but he played for United there!

Of course that logic is absolutely ludicrous. Charlie Mulgrew played midfield for Celtic. He's never a midfielder. Dylan McGeouch played right back ffs.
But....... he played there for his previous club, has spent a year there for us, isn't being played as a winger and can't pass a ball no matter if he's central or on the left.

Charlie Mulgrew has put in some very good performances for Celtic in MF. Some very bad ones too but I've seen him play better in CM than Armstrong.
Again, I couldn't care less where he played for United. I've watched him enough for Celtic to know that he isn't a left side midfielder. He's more suited to the centre of the park. I'm not saying he should be playing there currently because his form is rotten and others deserve a chance ahead of him but I truly believe a part of why his form is so bad is that he's being used wrongly. Whether that be where he's being asked to lineup or how he's being asked to play who knows. Both playing a part, IMO.
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21 Feb 2016, 08:48 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:44 PM
Zurawski 7
21 Feb 2016, 08:38 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I thought he was a left back. That's where he played when we signed him again anyway. Regardless, you kinda back up my point. People would look at see somebody like Mulgrew playing in a certain position and think well that must be his position. It isn't necessarily the case. Armstrong may have played on the left side for United but that doesn't mean his game isn't more suited to playing in a central role for Celtic. Exact same applies to Allan.

I'd agree with Mulgrew being better at CM than CB but only because it means there's somebody behind him to cover when he inevitably gets turned. His ideal position would be a back up LB/CB.
Mulgrew played CB and LB at Aberdeen

Allan says his preferred position is left of the 3 behind a striker
:thumbsup: Either way, he certainly was never a natural CM.

I find the Allan quote strange because he even more than Armstrong is clearly more suited to the centre of the park. Probably knows he's got absolutely no chance of getting in ahead of Brown or Bitton.
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McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:50 PM
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21 Feb 2016, 08:40 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But....... he played there for his previous club, has spent a year there for us, isn't being played as a winger and can't pass a ball no matter if he's central or on the left.

Charlie Mulgrew has put in some very good performances for Celtic in MF. Some very bad ones too but I've seen him play better in CM than Armstrong.
Again, I couldn't care less where he played for United. I've watched him enough for Celtic to know that he isn't a left side midfielder. He's more suited to the centre of the park. I'm not saying he should be playing there currently because his form is rotten and others deserve a chance ahead of him but I truly believe a part of why his form is so bad is that he's being used wrongly. Whether that be where he's being asked to lineup or how he's being asked to play who knows. Both playing a part, IMO.
Do you think he played well there for us last season?
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McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:54 PM
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21 Feb 2016, 08:48 PM
McStay
21 Feb 2016, 08:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Mulgrew played CB and LB at Aberdeen

Allan says his preferred position is left of the 3 behind a striker
:thumbsup: Either way, he certainly was never a natural CM.

I find the Allan quote strange because he even more than Armstrong is clearly more suited to the centre of the park. Probably knows he's got absolutely no chance of getting in ahead of Brown or Bitton.
Maybe but he had a really good spell there in Lennons last season as a DM, had the time and space to spray the ball around and his long passing is good. I remember him starting 4 games wide left and scoring 2 and hitting the woodwork twice, good utility player at the time.

Not sure when the quotes from but we won't play 2 wingers too often and we have very attacking LB'S, we're not asking Armstrong or Allan to hug the touchline.
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I feel for the lad. He has talent but mentally he is not tough enough and he must be hearing the groans from the stands when things aren't going for him. I think he would be better off having a break, either away from the squad or on the bench but certainly not starting. Build him back up slowly, introducing him when/if we are winning and playing well.
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There's a couple of things that I think have affected Armstrong's for (not counting fitness and injury).

Firstly, not having Izaguirre there has deprived him of a wider option going to the byline. This has limited his options. Tierney is a better overall fullback, but rarely goes much further than the 18 yard line on the overlap. This means that Armstrong himself is having to go widesktop himself at times and try to take a man on, which isn't really his game.

On top of that, he at this stage seems to lack assertiveness. Izaguirre going down the left would make his decision for him - cut in or play the ball to match the run made. However compare to Allan, perhaps a less disciplined but more confident player, who yesterday was 'leading' and taking ownership. He was playing the ball into the right areas for Tierney and others, which demanded that the pass was matched by a run. And on one or two occasions forced the issue and asked questions of his teammates.

Armstrong for whatever reason seems scared to do that. He is a good technical player but too nice in terms of how he plays; tidy, 'safe' and lacking aggression or conviction. He's a player who needs direction.

While the 'left wing' argument is nonsense (as others have said, it's an inverted, more central attacking position) I wonder if his best hope is a switch to the right to play in a similar role and way to how Beckham played at Man Utd; tucked in on the right, working box to box, with his 'default' attacking strategy to whip the ball across from deep (his delivery is one of his stronger aspects), and otherwise keeping it simple and being defensively disciplined.

It could very well be that he is now struggling to cope with the sustained pressure. But there is still a player in there, and he needs to work out how to best assert himself and bring that out consistently. At he moment he doesn't look like he is enjoying himself.
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DKB
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Should be playing central with Brown - both of them going box to box with a defensive midfielder behind them to protect the back line
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Dr_Optimist
22 Feb 2016, 12:53 AM
There's a couple of things that I think have affected Armstrong's for (not counting fitness and injury).

Firstly, not having Izaguirre there has deprived him of a wider option going to the byline. This has limited his options. Tierney is a better overall fullback, but rarely goes much further than the 18 yard line on the overlap. This means that Armstrong himself is having to go widesktop himself at times and try to take a man on, which isn't really his game.

On top of that, he at this stage seems to lack assertiveness. Izaguirre going down the left would make his decision for him - cut in or play the ball to match the run made. However compare to Allan, perhaps a less disciplined but more confident player, who yesterday was 'leading' and taking ownership. He was playing the ball into the right areas for Tierney and others, which demanded that the pass was matched by a run. And on one or two occasions forced the issue and asked questions of his teammates.

Armstrong for whatever reason seems scared to do that. He is a good technical player but too nice in terms of how he plays; tidy, 'safe' and lacking aggression or conviction. He's a player who needs direction.

While the 'left wing' argument is nonsense (as others have said, it's an inverted, more central attacking position) I wonder if his best hope is a switch to the right to play in a similar role and way to how Beckham played at Man Utd; tucked in on the right, working box to box, with his 'default' attacking strategy to whip the ball across from deep (his delivery is one of his stronger aspects), and otherwise keeping it simple and being defensively disciplined.

It could very well be that he is now struggling to cope with the sustained pressure. But there is still a player in there, and he needs to work out how to best assert himself and bring that out consistently. At he moment he doesn't look like he is enjoying himself.
Good post Dr Optimist. Pretty much nails the problem for me. :thumbsup:

Stuart Armstrong is still learning to deal with winning week in, week out and the pressure that comes with that. He's a good player who is years away from reaching his peak and he needs support and understanding from us all.
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His confidence has gone to shampoo. Clearly the mental aspect is troubling him so we should post him with a psychologist for a while. Then again it could be Deila and the new man could spark him again.

Refuse to write him off yet.
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DKB
22 Feb 2016, 10:28 PM
Should be playing central with Brown - both of them going box to box with a defensive midfielder behind them to protect the back line
The further away Brown is from the oppositions goal the better. Bittons more creative and more of a goal threat.
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23 Feb 2016, 09:27 AM
DKB
22 Feb 2016, 10:28 PM
Should be playing central with Brown - both of them going box to box with a defensive midfielder behind them to protect the back line
The further away Brown is from the oppositions goal the better. Bittons more creative and more of a goal threat.
Bitton doesn't have the legs to go box to box for 90 minutes, and it would take the stylish bit out of his play if he had to do so

I know that Ronny most likely wouldn't go 442 diamond, but his would suit Armstrong

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