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Stuart Armstrong; 'Fishel: Signs for Southampton on a 4 year deal.
Topic Started: 18 Oct 2015, 09:50 PM (730,991 Views)
Pussyfoot
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Neil Jung
10 Jun 2018, 09:24 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:13 AM
Stuart's a midfielder with winger or forward stats, I don't think he's started two thirds of appearances in his career and that's not what you need in central midfield. I think young Olivier in his first full season looked more reliable.

McGinn is miles above Armstrong in that department too. Putting other comparisons and attributes aside he's far more used to playing 90 minutes.
McGinn is nowhere near being as good at what Armstrong brings to the team so whatever stats you are looking at aren't really relevent.
If John McGinn was playing for us for the last 3 or 4 years his 90 minute stats would be non existent.
Of course it's relevant if a 26 year old central midfielder hasn't started two thirds of his career games, similar records at United and Celtic. That is reality, McGinn starting around 90% of his games is reality, everything else is opinion and I never offered mine, whether yours is relevant or not I'd rather not say.
Edited by Pussyfoot, 10 Jun 2018, 09:32 AM.
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mick82
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Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:31 AM
Neil Jung
10 Jun 2018, 09:24 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:13 AM
Stuart's a midfielder with winger or forward stats, I don't think he's started two thirds of appearances in his career and that's not what you need in central midfield. I think young Olivier in his first full season looked more reliable.

McGinn is miles above Armstrong in that department too. Putting other comparisons and attributes aside he's far more used to playing 90 minutes.
McGinn is nowhere near being as good at what Armstrong brings to the team so whatever stats you are looking at aren't really relevent.
If John McGinn was playing for us for the last 3 or 4 years his 90 minute stats would be non existent.
Of course it's relevant if a 26 year old central midfielder hasn't started two thirds of his career games, similar records at United and Celtic. That is reality, McGinn starting around 90% of his games is reality, everything else is opinion and I never offered mine, whether yours is relevant or not I'd rather not say.
Do you think McGinn would have started around 90% of games for Celtic in the last 3 years?
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Pussyfoot
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mick82
10 Jun 2018, 09:34 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:31 AM
Neil Jung
10 Jun 2018, 09:24 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Of course it's relevant if a 26 year old central midfielder hasn't started two thirds of his career games, similar records at United and Celtic. That is reality, McGinn starting around 90% of his games is reality, everything else is opinion and I never offered mine, whether yours is relevant or not I'd rather not say.
Do you think McGinn would have started around 90% of games for Celtic in the last 3 years?
That's not my point, he was able to start those games. Armstrong hasn't managed it at United nor Celtic. N'tcham in his first full season looked a more reliable option.

I'd like to keep Armstrong but he's not been as reliable as others in that area of the field. The midfield is the rhythm of the side and the whole team benefits from consistency in that area, reliability.
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lepetitmerde
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Armstrong of last season will be missed Armstrong howrver.of the.other 2/3 season he has been with us won't be
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Fly Pelican
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lepetitmerde
10 Jun 2018, 09:49 AM
Armstrong of last season will be missed Armstrong howrver.of the.other 2/3 season he has been with us won't be
:ponder: he had about one good game last season. It was the season before he was good, have you already managed to erase last season from your memory :lol:
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Neil Jung
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Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:39 AM
mick82
10 Jun 2018, 09:34 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think McGinn would have started around 90% of games for Celtic in the last 3 years?
That's not my point, he was able to start those games. Armstrong hasn't managed it at United nor Celtic. N'tcham in his first full season looked a more reliable option.

I'd like to keep Armstrong but he's not been as reliable as others in that area of the field. The midfield is the rhythm of the side and the whole team benefits from consistency in that area, reliability.
Stuart Armstrong's stats at United will be comparable or better than those of McGinn at Hibs and St Mirren. It is worth noting Armstrong's appearances were in the top division. Also worth noting are Armstrong's performances in Brendan's first season in charge. You want to compare him to NtCham - fine. I love NtCham and think he has so much potential but I doubt the word most in our support would use to describe him is reliable. I watched him dominate in games v Sevco but get hooked at half time v Hearts and Hibs. God, I watched him have a dreadful first 20-30 minutes away at Anderlecht before playing one of the most beautiful passes of the season to help set up our first goal. Different players have different attributes and bring different things to the team. Armstrong is a strong runner. He can carry the ball distances and also arrive in the box. Nobody else in our squad is as good at it as him. IfArmstrong goes it won't be a massive loss but we will be losing the only player in our squad who offers what he offers. McGinn is nowhere near being as good at it as him. McGinn also isn't as good as NtCham at passing or Brown as an all round midfielder. Replacing Armstrong with McGinn is a bad move.

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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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Seems to be quite a few clubs interested according to press.
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Tam Haas
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If he isn't staying, sell him.

I'd be delighted if he signed a new long term deal, but I suspect you'll only be hearing about him on loan deals at Championship clubs after he flops.

We should have sold him last season rather than giving him a 2 year deal.
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He Cometh
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lepetitmerde
10 Jun 2018, 09:49 AM
Armstrong of last season will be missed Armstrong howrver.of the.other 2/3 season he has been with us won't be
Think you've got your seasons mixed up mate.
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Pussyfoot
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Neil Jung
10 Jun 2018, 09:59 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:39 AM
mick82
10 Jun 2018, 09:34 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's not my point, he was able to start those games. Armstrong hasn't managed it at United nor Celtic. N'tcham in his first full season looked a more reliable option.

I'd like to keep Armstrong but he's not been as reliable as others in that area of the field. The midfield is the rhythm of the side and the whole team benefits from consistency in that area, reliability.
Stuart Armstrong's stats at United will be comparable or better than those of McGinn at Hibs and St Mirren. It is worth noting Armstrong's appearances were in the top division. Also worth noting are Armstrong's performances in Brendan's first season in charge. You want to compare him to NtCham - fine. I love NtCham and think he has so much potential but I doubt the word most in our support would use to describe him is reliable. I watched him dominate in games v Sevco but get hooked at half time v Hearts and Hibs. God, I watched him have a dreadful first 20-30 minutes away at Anderlecht before playing one of the most beautiful passes of the season to help set up our first goal. Different players have different attributes and bring different things to the team. Armstrong is a strong runner. He can carry the ball distances and also arrive in the box. Nobody else in our squad is as good at it as him. IfArmstrong goes it won't be a massive loss but we will be losing the only player in our squad who offers what he offers. McGinn is nowhere near being as good at it as him. McGinn also isn't as good as NtCham at passing or Brown as an all round midfielder. Replacing Armstrong with McGinn is a bad move.

:thumbsup: Lots of good and interesting points, I'd need to see McGinn in action for Celtic prior to making my mind up about him, it's in the hands of others whether that happens.

I'd rather keep Stuart as I think one day everything will click for him and that reliability will come but until that happens he remains an enigmatic central midfielder, not a consistent one.
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Kingslim
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Neil Jung
10 Jun 2018, 09:59 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:39 AM
mick82
10 Jun 2018, 09:34 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's not my point, he was able to start those games. Armstrong hasn't managed it at United nor Celtic. N'tcham in his first full season looked a more reliable option.

I'd like to keep Armstrong but he's not been as reliable as others in that area of the field. The midfield is the rhythm of the side and the whole team benefits from consistency in that area, reliability.
Stuart Armstrong's stats at United will be comparable or better than those of McGinn at Hibs and St Mirren. It is worth noting Armstrong's appearances were in the top division. Also worth noting are Armstrong's performances in Brendan's first season in charge. You want to compare him to NtCham - fine. I love NtCham and think he has so much potential but I doubt the word most in our support would use to describe him is reliable. I watched him dominate in games v Sevco but get hooked at half time v Hearts and Hibs. God, I watched him have a dreadful first 20-30 minutes away at Anderlecht before playing one of the most beautiful passes of the season to help set up our first goal. Different players have different attributes and bring different things to the team. Armstrong is a strong runner. He can carry the ball distances and also arrive in the box. Nobody else in our squad is as good at it as him. IfArmstrong goes it won't be a massive loss but we will be losing the only player in our squad who offers what he offers. McGinn is nowhere near being as good at it as him. McGinn also isn't as good as NtCham at passing or Brown as an all round midfielder. Replacing Armstrong with McGinn is a bad move.

Your assessment of Ntcham is harsh. A lot of us were scratching our heads in the first season in games he either wasn’t starting or getting hooked early. It then comes to light, that Brendan didn’t think he was physically ready. He never deserved to be hooked at Tynecastle that day. He was howling in Anderlecht to begin with, but he recovered mentally and was probably our best player by the end of the game. There were some games during the season that if he’d been introduced earlier we probably would have won 0-0 Sevco and there was a home CL game he came on late as a sub - might have been Anderlecht at home. He’s was arguably our most important player in the big games last season. Even Astana away when others were crumbling he took the game by the scruff and scored the goal to ease he pressure.

He’s had his stinking days, like everyone, but most notably they have been at the likes of Kille and Hamilton on diabolical surfaces that players are probably more focused on not getting hurt. He had inconsistencies as you would expect from a 21 year but there’s no doubt Ntcham is reliable.

He may not have the running power of Armstrong who brings a different skillset but Ntcham is an absolute diamond of a player and I still can’t figure out how we managed to get him.
Edited by Kingslim, 10 Jun 2018, 10:35 AM.
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antbhoy
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IainG
10 Jun 2018, 10:02 AM
Seems to be quite a few clubs interested according to press.
Bidding war, hopefully get decent coin for him.
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mick82
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Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:39 AM
mick82
10 Jun 2018, 09:34 AM
Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Do you think McGinn would have started around 90% of games for Celtic in the last 3 years?
That's not my point, he was able to start those games. Armstrong hasn't managed it at United nor Celtic. N'tcham in his first full season looked a more reliable option.

I'd like to keep Armstrong but he's not been as reliable as others in that area of the field. The midfield is the rhythm of the side and the whole team benefits from consistency in that area, reliability.
Are you including in those percentages games in which Armstrong has been available to play but hasn’t been picked because Ntcham has been preferred?

My point is that you can’t use number of appearances alone to gauge “reliability”. You seem to be conflating that with availability.
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harryhoodshatrick
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If he wanted to stay I would keep him if he wants to go then sell him.Peopke might say he is better than McGinn but he’s certainly not as consistent as McGinn.
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geezerbhoy
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Ron Swanson
9 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
He’s been here 3 and a half years and has had a really good 6 months during that time.

He’s not in our strongest 11 and if he wants to go sit on someone else’s bench at double the money then good luck to him.
:lol: :lol: i love how some players become shampooe on here if there is a sniff of them moving on or stalling on signing a new deal for the club
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geezerbhoy
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JohnRobertson
9 Jun 2018, 07:02 PM
Ron Swanson
9 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
He’s been here 3 and a half years and has had a really good 6 months during that time.

He’s not in our strongest 11 and if he wants to go sit on someone else’s bench at double the money then good luck to him.
100% Poor 2 and a half years, good 6 months in the Invincible season we all wanted him to stay and kick on, unfortunately it never happened.
:ffs:
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geezerbhoy
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steviefrombelfast
9 Jun 2018, 08:10 PM
randombloke
9 Jun 2018, 06:08 PM
steviefrombelfast
9 Jun 2018, 10:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He may not win trophies with a pish to mediocre club in the EPL....but he would be testing himself against a better class of opposition week in week out.

Yes, we can offer CL football with 6 to 8 games against top class opposition in a good season.....but down there he'll have 10 or more games against CL quality teams every season.



We offer a lot to players in terms of the chance to win trophies, take part in the CL and have the adulation (and occasionally contempt) of a huge support....but those aren't the only motivating factors for players. Even putting the money aside the lure of playing in one of Europe's top leagues (even if it's for relegation strugglers) and facing top quality opposition regularly outweighs everything we can offer for many players.
Yes he will be tested and he will be found wanting. The guy has ability and can play well. However he can also lose confidence very easily and disappear for months. He is at best in a team that dominates most games and attacks. Finding space in an attack is his strenght. He is Also more confident in a team that wins most weeks. He is not much use when the team is under pressure and having to defend - he brings little to that side of the game. As for him having the character to battle through a relation dogfight, that any team that signs him will inevitably be involved in then forget about it.

As I said he can stay, have a great career at a team that suits him best and still have a very comfortable future. Or he can chase a big pay packet in England, for a while.
that is an absolute pile a shampooe
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geezerbhoy
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CaltonBhoy1967
9 Jun 2018, 10:16 PM
Celticbhoy_07
9 Jun 2018, 07:46 PM
If he isn't committed to us then punt.

No great loss to be honest.
I agree if he has no commitment we punt him but to say he is no great loss is too dismissive .


If Armstrong is on form and we all know he wasn't most of last season but if he was to stay and Brendan gets him back on form he is a very good player to have in the squad.

All ifs and buts just now though. :thumbsup:
your bang on cb :thumbsup:
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geezerbhoy
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station
10 Jun 2018, 05:28 AM
mick405
9 Jun 2018, 10:24 PM
station
9 Jun 2018, 07:56 PM
I think 🤔 and I could be wrong but I’d say football is not his no1 priority. Just punching down time.
Based on?
His form since he came to the club .
:lol: :lol:
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geezerbhoy
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Pussyfoot
10 Jun 2018, 09:13 AM
Stuart's a midfielder with winger or forward stats, I don't think he's started two thirds of appearances in his career and that's not what you need in central midfield. I think young Olivier in his first full season looked more reliable.

McGinn is miles above Armstrong in that department too. Putting other comparisons and attributes aside he's far more used to playing 90 minutes.
:ffs: mcginn a better player than armstrong :lol: :lol: behave yourself :ffs:
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