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Stuart Armstrong; 'Fishel: Signs for Southampton on a 4 year deal.
Topic Started: 18 Oct 2015, 09:50 PM (731,073 Views)
Bawman
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nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:00 PM
remy mcswain
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So, turn down £3m and pay Armstrong's wages for a season to teach everyone a lesson?

Eminently sensible.
Pretty much aye.
He could do himself and the club a favour by signing a deal.
If he doesn't, fine.
We haven't 'lost' £3m, it's not there, we will have however paid the wages we were going to pay anyway.

I'd play hardball.
Each to their own. :thumbsup:
There's hardball and then there's mentalball
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SthlmCelt
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3M + 100% sell on fee :naught:
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macfleeto
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Bawman
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:00 PM
remy mcswain
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Pretty much aye.
He could do himself and the club a favour by signing a deal.
If he doesn't, fine.
We haven't 'lost' £3m, it's not there, we will have however paid the wages we were going to pay anyway.

I'd play hardball.
Each to their own. :thumbsup:
There's hardball and then there's mentalball
I think mentalball is selling one of our best players for £3 million.

Maybe at the end of the season we could just bite the hand off anyone that puts in a lowball offer for Dembele too?
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Willie Wonka
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eff me, how many logins has Jim McLean got on here? :o
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Bawman
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macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 03:06 PM
Bawman
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:00 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There's hardball and then there's mentalball
I think mentalball is selling one of our best players for £3 million.

Maybe at the end of the season we could just bite the hand off anyone that puts in a lowball offer for Dembele too?
With two years left on his contract? Aye, that's a great idea.
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nakasboots
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Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM
Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 02:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Sends a signal to those willing to hold the club to ransom.

Sign a deal, he's then allowed to move at a price the club feels suitable.

His stock is high, it probably won't be if he doesn't get any game time.

Also tells Southampton that if they want a fresh player then come up with the goods.

Celtic hold the cards here, not Armstrong and not Southampton.
Four million quid to send a message, that we're a scunner to play for and do business with.
Nope.
It's his wages we are paying out on.
We would pay them anyway.

You want the club to allow players and other clubs to shaft us at their leisure?

The signal it sends is, Celtic value their players in line with British market value, if any team want to pay the kind of money it would cost you to buy an English second division player, then go shop there.

Not from a Champions League team, full of internationals. :cuckoo:

Armstrong is playing a game with the club, he could easily get a deal that suits Celtic and himself. He's showing no loyalty.
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LambertandButler
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3 million is in the ballpark of the figure we're looking at if he wants to leave now.

There's no way the board would turn that down to 'make a point'.
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macfleeto
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Bawman
11 Aug 2017, 03:10 PM
macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 03:06 PM
Bawman
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think mentalball is selling one of our best players for £3 million.

Maybe at the end of the season we could just bite the hand off anyone that puts in a lowball offer for Dembele too?
With two years left on his contract? Aye, that's a great idea.
Well why not, you're already open to low offers on our players by accepting £3 million for Armstrong. In fact why not just tell Southampton they only need to offer £1.5 million?

Just for a bit of contrast here, Andy Yiadom formerly of the mighty Barnet and Barnsley has signed for Huddersfield for £3 million because he was on the last year of his contract. Yet people on here think we as a Champions League club should be selling one of our best players to a Premiership club who are effing MINTED for the same figure because we might not get anything?

Naw.
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Smiley
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nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Four million quid to send a message, that we're a scunner to play for and do business with.
Nope.
It's his wages we are paying out on.
We would pay them anyway.

You want the club to allow players and other clubs to shaft us at their leisure?

The signal it sends is, Celtic value their players in line with British market value, if any team want to pay the kind of money it would cost you to buy an English second division player, then go shop there.

Not from a Champions League team, full of internationals. :cuckoo:

Armstrong is playing a game with the club, he could easily get a deal that suits Celtic and himself. He's showing no loyalty.
We're paying wages for a player to do a job for us though. We are actually losing out when we bench him because we're then paying for someone to do nothing for us.

If an offer's on the table then we have a choice between taking the cash (£4m or so); refusing it and playing him (at least we get the services of a player); or refusing and benching him to 'send a message'.

We're not paying upwards of £3million to spit the dummy out and bench a player. We all know the game, we've benefited enough from it ourselves. We can't punish a player for what after all is fulfilling their contract, unless you want to put other players off signing contracts with us in future.

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CaltonBhoy1967
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nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM
Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 02:48 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:33 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not sure that would achieve much.

He's benched so we lose the player's services, £3m and a year's worth of wages.

We sell him and we lose the player's services and gain £3m and his wages for the season.
Sends a signal to those willing to hold the club to ransom.

Sign a deal, he's then allowed to move at a price the club feels suitable.

His stock is high, it probably won't be if he doesn't get any game time.

Also tells Southampton that if they want a fresh player then come up with the goods.

Celtic hold the cards here, not Armstrong and not Southampton.
Armstrong holds the Aces.

Paying his wages which he is contracted to be paid and then having him piss about with the Youths or whoever without getting any benefit to the First Team whilst at the same time forfeiting the £3m or whatever transfer fee is in effect going to cost us north of £3.5m+ to prove your point.???

Part of the lure for getting players to come to Celtic is that they know if they succeed they will be moved on benefitting both the player and Celtic - Armstrong is not an Wanyama/Forster or VVD but to be seen to be fecking a player about as you suggest will deter from the attraction of Celtic to some other players and as Rodgers is hinting and we already know it is not that easy to get the quality he wants in here as opposed to down South.

I still would rather he signed a new deal - If the length of the deal is still a stumbling block tweak it to 3 years as he then knows he will be away within in two years after it kicks in - He is worth more than the £3m but if HE is insisting he wants to go now and that is all that is on the table and we let him run his contract down and get hee haw he will be punted sooner rather than later..

Edited by CaltonBhoy1967, 11 Aug 2017, 03:26 PM.
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Fast n Bulbous
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If he's not going to sign a new contract and doesn't want to stay then sell for the best offer. If that's 3 million it's quite disappointing but so be it. It's still money in the bank and wages saved, which could be spent on someone who does want to be here.

I'd still rather he signed a new contract and stayed, but it's up to him. Don't see the point in punishing him either. Let him go and move on.
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legal_man
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Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 03:21 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Nope.
It's his wages we are paying out on.
We would pay them anyway.

You want the club to allow players and other clubs to shaft us at their leisure?

The signal it sends is, Celtic value their players in line with British market value, if any team want to pay the kind of money it would cost you to buy an English second division player, then go shop there.

Not from a Champions League team, full of internationals. :cuckoo:

Armstrong is playing a game with the club, he could easily get a deal that suits Celtic and himself. He's showing no loyalty.
We're paying wages for a player to do a job for us though. We are actually losing out when we bench him because we're then paying for someone to do nothing for us.

If an offer's on the table then we have a choice between taking the cash (£4m or so); refusing it and playing him (at least we get the services of a player); or refusing and benching him to 'send a message'.

We're not paying upwards of £3million to spit the dummy out and bench a player. We all know the game, we've benefited enough from it ourselves. We can't punish a player for what after all is fulfilling their contract, unless you want to put other players off signing contracts with us in future.

Quote:
 
We can't punish a player for what after all is fulfilling their contract, unless you want to put other players off signing contracts with us in future.


Correct. How does it look to players we're hoping to sign just now, or in the future, if the message gets out that if they do nothing more than stick to the terms of their contract we'll do our best to wreck their careers in return?

It's entirely hypocritical of us to expect more "loyalty" from players than they showed to the team we signed them from. If he wants to stay past the end of the year he can sign. If he doesn't, he can run down his contract. Either way, if he's playing well enough to get into the team, he gets into the team. Full effing stop.
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Mickeybhoy84
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£3million is the sort of fee I'd be looking for in January. Right now I'd want at least double that.

We're in a peculiar position where we already have the players to replace him. I don't know how much impact the fact he isn't a guaranteed first pick has had on his value.
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Smiley
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Mickeybhoy84
11 Aug 2017, 03:26 PM
£3million is the sort of fee I'd be looking for in January. Right now I'd want at least double that.
Definitely we should be trying for more - we can do a lot better than £3million.

If that's all that's on the table by the end of the window then I reckon we'll have to take it. Will be gutted.
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noelab
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remy mcswain
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:33 PM
macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 02:27 PM
If it's true then what a effing insult of an offer :nono:

£3 million for one of our best players in today's market is a complete and utter joke.

Accept that offer and we'll condemn ourselves to lowball EPL offers on our players for the rest of time. We don't need the £3 million so tell them to GTF.
That's what I'd do.
Shove yer 3m.

Stick him in with the youths if he doesn't want to allow the club to make a decent wedge off him.

If an international midfielder with Champions league experience and an excellent goal record is worth so little then we are getting shafted.

Bench him and tell Southampton they can have the player for nowt next year. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
So, turn down £3m and pay Armstrong's wages for a season to teach everyone a lesson?

Eminently sensible.
You are assuming that he is either willing to move or sign a new deal. He can do neither if he chooses to.

The difference in sticking to the deal he is on over the next four months will be fairly insignificant compared to negotiating a new deal or transfer in January. He might miss out on £0.5M wages over that period but pocket the lions share of the £3m transfer money that Southampton or someone else might offer at the minute. Chuck in a CL bonus or two and he's not exactly strapped for cash meantime.

The ball is in his court - the time for us to strike a new deal was last year, but you wouldn't have spent two bob on him at that time.
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Mubo Loravcik
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nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
Smiley
11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 02:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Four million quid to send a message, that we're a scunner to play for and do business with.
Nope.
It's his wages we are paying out on.
We would pay them anyway.

You want the club to allow players and other clubs to shaft us at their leisure?

The signal it sends is, Celtic value their players in line with British market value, if any team want to pay the kind of money it would cost you to buy an English second division player, then go shop there.

Not from a Champions League team, full of internationals. :cuckoo:

Armstrong is playing a game with the club, he could easily get a deal that suits Celtic and himself. He's showing no loyalty.
The assumption on all sides is that Armstrong won't sign a new contract, so it's on that basis that there are 2 options here.

a) Accept around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus we would be getting rid of, as you described, a disloyal and unfocused player who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

b) Reject around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus knowing that we don't need him to win 7IAR and he alone is unlikely to improve our UCL chances. And we'd have said disloyal and unfocused player for a year, who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

It's not like us running down Armstrong's contract until next summer, even if he continues playing and has another good season, will suddenly send a shiver down the spines of every EPL owner and suddenly from 2018 onwards they will pay us megabucks for our best players that will make the 'pennies' we received for VVD & Wanyama seem small fry by comparison.
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Ricky Spanish
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Sell for £3m then a 100% loan fee clause when he's loaned back up to Aberdeen.
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Bawman
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macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 03:19 PM
Bawman
11 Aug 2017, 03:10 PM
macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 03:06 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
With two years left on his contract? Aye, that's a great idea.
Well why not, you're already open to low offers on our players by accepting £3 million for Armstrong. In fact why not just tell Southampton they only need to offer £1.5 million?

Just for a bit of contrast here, Andy Yiadom formerly of the mighty Barnet and Barnsley has signed for Huddersfield for £3 million because he was on the last year of his contract. Yet people on here think we as a Champions League club should be selling one of our best players to a Premiership club who are effing MINTED for the same figure because we might not get anything?

Naw.
Well if you're going to make things up...there's nowhere I said we're open to low offers.

There is a reality to business that we sometimes use to our advantage (Dembele being an example) and that sometimes works against us (John Collins being one for the oldies) and now Armstrong. It's just plain bad business to take Armstrong into this season when we could have put three million quid in the bank to put toward his replacement. Is that amount equal to his value? No but neither is what we paid for Dembele.

Instead of sending a message, we need to get one. Players with two years on their deals need to re-up or be sold. The irony of this (rare) occasion is that we would end up with more than if we had sold the quiff last season.

If the guy wants out and the best offer we have is three mill, do it.
Edited by Bawman, 11 Aug 2017, 03:38 PM.
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macfleeto
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Mubo Loravcik
11 Aug 2017, 03:32 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
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11 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Nope.
It's his wages we are paying out on.
We would pay them anyway.

You want the club to allow players and other clubs to shaft us at their leisure?

The signal it sends is, Celtic value their players in line with British market value, if any team want to pay the kind of money it would cost you to buy an English second division player, then go shop there.

Not from a Champions League team, full of internationals. :cuckoo:

Armstrong is playing a game with the club, he could easily get a deal that suits Celtic and himself. He's showing no loyalty.
The assumption on all sides is that Armstrong won't sign a new contract, so it's on that basis that there are 2 options here.

a) Accept around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus we would be getting rid of, as you described, a disloyal and unfocused player who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

b) Reject around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus knowing that we don't need him to win 7IAR and he alone is unlikely to improve our UCL chances. And we'd have said disloyal and unfocused player for a year, who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

It's not like us running down Armstrong's contract until next summer, even if he continues playing and has another good season, will suddenly send a shiver down the spines of every EPL owner and suddenly from 2018 onwards they will pay us megabucks for our best players that will make the 'pennies' we received for VVD & Wanyama seem small fry by comparison.
Well I mean for a start it's £3 million that's being quoted here, not "nearly £4 million".

Secondly, nobody is suggesting that it will 'send a shiver down the spine of EPL clubs'. What is being very plainly stated is that accepting such a low offer will have an impact on the value of future potential sales to England.
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Bawman
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macfleeto
11 Aug 2017, 03:38 PM
Mubo Loravcik
11 Aug 2017, 03:32 PM
nakasboots
11 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The assumption on all sides is that Armstrong won't sign a new contract, so it's on that basis that there are 2 options here.

a) Accept around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus we would be getting rid of, as you described, a disloyal and unfocused player who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

b) Reject around £4 million, knowing Armstrong only has 1 year left on his contract and central midfield is the area where we're strongest. Plus knowing that we don't need him to win 7IAR and he alone is unlikely to improve our UCL chances. And we'd have said disloyal and unfocused player for a year, who's only had 1 excellent season for Celtic

It's not like us running down Armstrong's contract until next summer, even if he continues playing and has another good season, will suddenly send a shiver down the spines of every EPL owner and suddenly from 2018 onwards they will pay us megabucks for our best players that will make the 'pennies' we received for VVD & Wanyama seem small fry by comparison.
Well I mean for a start it's £3 million that's being quoted here, not "nearly £4 million".

Secondly, nobody is suggesting that it will 'send a shiver down the spine of EPL clubs'. What is being very plainly stated is that accepting such a low offer will have an impact on the value of future potential sales to England.
How do you work that one out?
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