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Stuart Armstrong; 'Fishel: Signs for Southampton on a 4 year deal.
Topic Started: 18 Oct 2015, 09:50 PM (731,108 Views)
Ste
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Flawless
18 Jul 2017, 08:36 PM
Poor Student
18 Jul 2017, 08:29 PM
Flawless
18 Jul 2017, 08:23 PM
Armstrong himself might just decide to stick it out a year. Then move for zilch.
With the number of central midfielders we have he could well find himself entirely frozen out. I don't think he's played at a consistently high level for long enough to risk losing a year. I don't see it as too likely a scenario.
Armstrong, alongside Brown and Sinclair are the first 3 names on the team sheet.

This mental gymnastics, this need to minimise his abilities to make his possible departure less sore is fascinating though.

For me I'd rather have Rogic and Brown in the midfield 3 than Armstrong and Brown. That leaves 1 space for Armstrong, Ntcham, Benyu, McGregor, Eboue and Bitton.

I don't think our 4.5m man will be sitting on the bench.
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dannyclyro
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ronan cfc
18 Jul 2017, 11:16 PM
I don't think Rodgers would play a guy that has made it clear he doesn't want to play for the club any more ( in this scenario) and is shafting the club out of millions by rejecting a move in order to get a better signing on bonus next summer. Especially given we've just signed a guy in his position for good money.

I don't think that's likely at all though. He'll either sign a new deal or leave this window and I still believe it will be the former.
"Shafting". :lol:

If a guy signs a contract and decides to complete it professionally then leave at the end, he's not "shafting" us. It's not great when we are the club on the receiving end of a Bosman but on other occasions we've been the beneficiaries. He's not a Celtic fan. He's a professional footballer. There's no shafting here, he signed a deal and is happy to complete it; in what area of employment does that mean you need to sign another deal before you're allowed to leave, "so's we kin get some dosh n'at, no"?
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randombloke
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Gerinho
18 Jul 2017, 11:39 PM
ronan cfc
18 Jul 2017, 11:16 PM
Luigi
18 Jul 2017, 11:01 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't think Rodgers would play a guy that has made it clear he doesn't want to play for the club any more ( in this scenario) and is shafting the club out of millions by rejecting a move in order to get a better signing on bonus next summer. Especially given we've just signed a guy in his position for good money.

I don't think that's likely at all though. He'll either sign a new deal or leave this window and I still believe it will be the former.
Dangerous game to play. Wouldnt go down well in the dressing room i would imagine if he were to be told to train with the kids. It wouldnt get to that stage anyway as im certain he would be sold beforehand.
If Armstrong declines the new contract on offer (and that's sheer speculation at this point) I expect he'll go on to play a part in the team until his contract expires or he's sold.

If a club is being professionally and competently run then "freezing out" of players only happens in one of two circumstances;

1. The player is acting the erse and either not putting in the effort as his contract runs down or being some sort of disruptive influence in the dressing room. Dunno if we've had anyone in that category in recent years, can't think of one off the top of my head.

2. He is genuinely surplus to requirements and has no role to play in the team - I guess Kris Commons fell in to this category...formerly a key part of the team, but found that he just didn't fit in the new manager's tactics through no fault of his own. Even then I don't think he was told to train with the kids or stay away at any point and he was available for selection if an injury crisis or a sudden rethink of tactics made it necessary.

Armstrong is certainly still a good fit for the team and I think is professional enough to see out his contract while remaining fully committed to the team. He'll play his part even if he's decided to see out his contract and leave on a free (as is his right).
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The Wizard of Tim
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randombloke
19 Jul 2017, 08:13 AM
Gerinho
18 Jul 2017, 11:39 PM
ronan cfc
18 Jul 2017, 11:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Dangerous game to play. Wouldnt go down well in the dressing room i would imagine if he were to be told to train with the kids. It wouldnt get to that stage anyway as im certain he would be sold beforehand.
If Armstrong declines the new contract on offer (and that's sheer speculation at this point) I expect he'll go on to play a part in the team until his contract expires or he's sold.

If a club is being professionally and competently run then "freezing out" of players only happens in one of two circumstances;

1. The player is acting the erse and either not putting in the effort as his contract runs down or being some sort of disruptive influence in the dressing room. Dunno if we've had anyone in that category in recent years, can't think of one off the top of my head.

2. He is genuinely surplus to requirements and has no role to play in the team - I guess Kris Commons fell in to this category...formerly a key part of the team, but found that he just didn't fit in the new manager's tactics through no fault of his own. Even then I don't think he was told to train with the kids or stay away at any point and he was available for selection if an injury crisis or a sudden rethink of tactics made it necessary.

Armstrong is certainly still a good fit for the team and I think is professional enough to see out his contract while remaining fully committed to the team. He'll play his part even if he's decided to see out his contract and leave on a free (as is his right).
I agree with this My only concern will be the 40/60 balls that need to be won away in Europe and at Snake Mountain- a player with one foot already out the door will rarely win those.
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Otis
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If he stays, he stays, if he goes, he goes.

From the recent signings that BR has made recently, I think he is preparing for that and giving Armstrong & his agent a clear message.
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Spooky88
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What a saga this is turning out to be, my memory isn't great but did the player himself not say he was keen to stay (interviewed at SCF). The Manager was positive about the prospect of him staying, everything else is speculation. I expect he will sign up, 3 year deal.
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wigwam
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Stringer Bell
19 Jul 2017, 07:13 AM
Estadio nacional
19 Jul 2017, 05:37 AM
Maybe rumours of him going were Lawwell plants and he's been signing all along, the re-signing can be held up as a summer victory...
I thought similar yesterday, though I think I just try to think of the snidest way Lawwell could play out any situation :lol:

Get everyone into a panic about Amrstrong leaving, sell Dembele :( , but Armstrong gets a new deal and everyone is kinda happy, when in reality he was never going.
:lol: Yeah, folk are that gullible they'd barely notice Dembele leaving because Armstrong signed a new deal.

Lawwell's likely very happy with the way things have gone over the last year.
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Flawless
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Ste
19 Jul 2017, 08:09 AM
Flawless
18 Jul 2017, 08:36 PM
Poor Student
18 Jul 2017, 08:29 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Armstrong, alongside Brown and Sinclair are the first 3 names on the team sheet.

This mental gymnastics, this need to minimise his abilities to make his possible departure less sore is fascinating though.

For me I'd rather have Rogic and Brown in the midfield 3 than Armstrong and Brown. That leaves 1 space for Armstrong, Ntcham, Benyu, McGregor, Eboue and Bitton.

I don't think our 4.5m man will be sitting on the bench.
And for me it's something completely different. And no doubt for 100's of us.

I'm talking about Brendan. Brendan plays Armstrong.

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SuperHans67
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peejaybee
19 Jul 2017, 07:55 AM
You're a bit harsh on new guys passing on info.

The part about Armstrong forcing the issue-I had heard that at the time, it seems more to be that he is pretty single minded about his career which would tie in with the difference in the length of contracts at the time between him and GMS.

Like I said, could all be rubbish, but considering where the info came from I just thought I would share it.
:thumbsup: I remember being slightly annoyed at the time we'd given ourselves 3.5 years of Armstrong while getting 4.5 years of GMS.

I think that's something to be read in to. He's a clever man and probably has a path in his mind, he's 25 or so and might not have another three quarter season like he just had.

I do think he should give us another 2 years though.
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lubolubo
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Flawless
19 Jul 2017, 08:42 AM
Ste
19 Jul 2017, 08:09 AM
Flawless
18 Jul 2017, 08:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
For me I'd rather have Rogic and Brown in the midfield 3 than Armstrong and Brown. That leaves 1 space for Armstrong, Ntcham, Benyu, McGregor, Eboue and Bitton.

I don't think our 4.5m man will be sitting on the bench.
And for me it's something completely different. And no doubt for 100's of us.

I'm talking about Brendan. Brendan plays Armstrong.

Rodgers also just signed a box to box player who could fit into Armstrongs position without too much trouble. The calculus of playing an Armstrong who is running down his contract is different to one who is not, especially when you have a plethora of midfield options.
Edited by lubolubo, 19 Jul 2017, 09:50 AM.
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puroresu_boy
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BR has form for pushing a player out of the first team squad with Suarez but that was different.

Suarez made it public he wanted to go and claimed the Manager verbally said he could go. He also was taking liberties in training so Rodgers made him train alone until he sorted himself out.

For me unless a player is letting down his teammates he should be part of the 1st team squad regardless if he wants to move. I don't think a player wanting to move on effects other players as its part and parcel of the game. Players come, players go.
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Big Drew
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lubolubo
19 Jul 2017, 09:05 AM
Flawless
19 Jul 2017, 08:42 AM
Ste
19 Jul 2017, 08:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And for me it's something completely different. And no doubt for 100's of us.

I'm talking about Brendan. Brendan plays Armstrong.

Rodgers also just signed a box to box player who could fit into Armstrongs position without too much trouble. The calculus of playing an Armstrong who is running down his contract is different to one who is now, especially when you have a plethora of midfield options.
Yeah, Ntcham didnt even make our bench last season. Armstrong wont leave a hole in the squad now.
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Ste
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Flawless
19 Jul 2017, 08:42 AM
Ste
19 Jul 2017, 08:09 AM
Flawless
18 Jul 2017, 08:36 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
For me I'd rather have Rogic and Brown in the midfield 3 than Armstrong and Brown. That leaves 1 space for Armstrong, Ntcham, Benyu, McGregor, Eboue and Bitton.

I don't think our 4.5m man will be sitting on the bench.
And for me it's something completely different. And no doubt for 100's of us.

I'm talking about Brendan. Brendan plays Armstrong.

Where did he play him when Rogic was fit? :ponder:

Beside Brown.

It's Armstrong or Rogic to drop out for Ntcham and nobody knows who that'll be yet...
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allthewine
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peejaybee
18 Jul 2017, 10:55 PM
Right-my first ever contribution here. I got a call tonight from a guy I work with who lives in Dundee and is involved with the Arab trust and other stuff. He has heard similar, that basically Armstrong has done the same at Celtic as he did at Utd to force a move. There is a deal agreed-don't know who he Club he's going to is-and I won't mention the fee as for me it's outlandish, but he did say that Utd have got a 20% sell on clause.
Pish.
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Bobby Peru
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Ste
19 Jul 2017, 09:46 AM
Flawless
19 Jul 2017, 08:42 AM
Ste
19 Jul 2017, 08:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And for me it's something completely different. And no doubt for 100's of us.

I'm talking about Brendan. Brendan plays Armstrong.

Where did he play him when Rogic was fit? :ponder:

Beside Brown.

It's Armstrong or Rogic to drop out for Ntcham and nobody knows who that'll be yet...
It should go without saying but the team selection will vary from game to game.
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Luca
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allthewine
19 Jul 2017, 09:51 AM
peejaybee
18 Jul 2017, 10:55 PM
Right-my first ever contribution here. I got a call tonight from a guy I work with who lives in Dundee and is involved with the Arab trust and other stuff. He has heard similar, that basically Armstrong has done the same at Celtic as he did at Utd to force a move. There is a deal agreed-don't know who he Club he's going to is-and I won't mention the fee as for me it's outlandish, but he did say that Utd have got a 20% sell on clause.
Pish.
:lol:
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greenjedi
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If Armstrong decides to see out his contract he's picking a high risk strategy, he was only a millimetre or so away from a broken ankle on Friday night. There will be plenty of similar assaults throughout the season.
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Forza
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As pointed out, running down your contract is no picnic. Zlatan was injured in April, no new contract come mid July upon the expiry of his original 1 year deal.

Players like Zlatan can do it because they are at the end of their career, have earned a fortune, and can negotiate enormous salaries without being encumbered by transfer fees.

Players in their mid 20 who tend to be in demand don't allow that to happen. All it takes is one injury. I'd be amazed if it wasn't done and dusted one way or another before the end of the window.
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peejaybee
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allthewine
19 Jul 2017, 09:51 AM
peejaybee
18 Jul 2017, 10:55 PM
Right-my first ever contribution here. I got a call tonight from a guy I work with who lives in Dundee and is involved with the Arab trust and other stuff. He has heard similar, that basically Armstrong has done the same at Celtic as he did at Utd to force a move. There is a deal agreed-don't know who he Club he's going to is-and I won't mention the fee as for me it's outlandish, but he did say that Utd have got a 20% sell on clause.
Pish.
Tough crowd. :(
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Ste
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Bobby Peru
19 Jul 2017, 09:53 AM
Ste
19 Jul 2017, 09:46 AM
Flawless
19 Jul 2017, 08:42 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Where did he play him when Rogic was fit? :ponder:

Beside Brown.

It's Armstrong or Rogic to drop out for Ntcham and nobody knows who that'll be yet...
It should go without saying but the team selection will vary from game to game.
I agree - I think Rogic will drop out in tougher games in Europe if all of our current players stay but for the most in the SPFL I reckon he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet given the creativity he brings to the team.
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