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Stuart Armstrong; 'Fishel: Signs for Southampton on a 4 year deal.
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Topic Started: 18 Oct 2015, 09:50 PM (731,148 Views)
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Forza
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30 Jun 2017, 01:15 PM
Post #2941
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
Depends what is on offer. If it's Burnley or Swansea at £50k a week and a relegation clause, do you opt for that?
As it stands, I've not seen one team linked with him.
He's just become a full international in March, and could likely be a mainstay of the international team for a few years to come. He could also play a lot more European football with Celtic over the coming season or two. There's an obvious danger of becoming bit part elsewhere if it doesn't work out, as Snodgrass is finding out.
This next deal need not be his biggest. If his progress continues next season he could realistically be gone at the end of next season or the one after for a sizeable fee, aged 26 or 27.
I think he understands the environment Rodgers has created has been the making of him, and leaving that behind quickly has its risks.
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searcher52
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30 Jun 2017, 01:17 PM
Post #2942
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
To suggest he "holds all the aces" is just nonsense. He may be in a strong bargaining position, however he's under contract to the club for a year AFAIK and the club always has the option of having him sit in the stand. I'm not advocating that they do, but they have that as an option. By your maths he then stands to lose (if at present he is on £20k per week) the best part of £2m before tax. He is a bright guy and can do the sums himself.
I'm pretty confident that both parties can come to an amicable agreement which will ensure his future at the club for the foreseeable.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 01:22 PM
Post #2943
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- Forza
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:15 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
Depends what is on offer. If it's Burnley or Swansea at £50k a week and a relegation clause, do you opt for that? As it stands, I've not seen one team linked with him. He's just become a full international in March, and could likely be a mainstay of the international team for a few years to come. He could also play a lot more European football with Celtic over the coming season or two. There's an obvious danger of becoming bit part elsewhere if it doesn't work out, as Snodgrass is finding out. This next deal need not be his biggest. If his progress continues next season he could realistically be gone at the end of next season or the one after for a sizeable fee, aged 26 or 27. I think he understands the environment Rodgers has created has been the making of him, and leaving that behind quickly has its risks. Leaving it behind quickly does have its risks, but his stock may never be this high.
Burnley, Brighton, whoever......if they come up with between 50k and 70k per week he'll find it hard to knock back.
Playing more European football is no big deal if you're playing in the EPL week in week out.
He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income. I'd love him to stay, but I understand every player who moves on for a better deal.
They may not flourish footballistically, but they'll be set up for life. Even more so than with a very good deal from Celtic.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 01:27 PM
Post #2944
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- searcher52
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:17 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
To suggest he "holds all the aces" is just nonsense. He may be in a strong bargaining position, however he's under contract to the club for a year AFAIK and the club always has the option of having him sit in the stand. I'm not advocating that they do, but they have that as an option. By your maths he then stands to lose (if at present he is on £20k per week) the best part of £2m before tax. He is a bright guy and can do the sums himself. I'm pretty confident that both parties can come to an amicable agreement which will ensure his future at the club for the foreseeable. The club will sell him or renew him......he won't be sitting in the stand.
If he choses to run down his contract and start speaking to other teams from January, then it's up to Brendan what happens to him football wise.
if Brendan wants to use him he will.
I don't understand your point about him standing to lose 2m
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searcher52
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30 Jun 2017, 01:31 PM
Post #2945
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:22 PM
- Forza
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:15 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
Depends what is on offer. If it's Burnley or Swansea at £50k a week and a relegation clause, do you opt for that? As it stands, I've not seen one team linked with him. He's just become a full international in March, and could likely be a mainstay of the international team for a few years to come. He could also play a lot more European football with Celtic over the coming season or two. There's an obvious danger of becoming bit part elsewhere if it doesn't work out, as Snodgrass is finding out. This next deal need not be his biggest. If his progress continues next season he could realistically be gone at the end of next season or the one after for a sizeable fee, aged 26 or 27. I think he understands the environment Rodgers has created has been the making of him, and leaving that behind quickly has its risks.
Leaving it behind quickly does have its risks, but his stock may never be this high. Burnley, Brighton, whoever......if they come up with between 50k and 70k per week he'll find it hard to knock back. Playing more European football is no big deal if you're playing in the EPL week in week out. He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income. I'd love him to stay, but I understand every player who moves on for a better deal. They may not flourish footballistically, but they'll be set up for life. Even more so than with a very good deal from Celtic. Are you his agent? I'm sure the money might be tempting but as I've said before her's a clever boy. To suggest "He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income" is far too simplistic. He'll need to weigh up a lot of issues.
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Firefly
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30 Jun 2017, 01:32 PM
Post #2946
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- searcher52
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:31 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:22 PM
- Forza
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:15 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Leaving it behind quickly does have its risks, but his stock may never be this high. Burnley, Brighton, whoever......if they come up with between 50k and 70k per week he'll find it hard to knock back. Playing more European football is no big deal if you're playing in the EPL week in week out. He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income. I'd love him to stay, but I understand every player who moves on for a better deal. They may not flourish footballistically, but they'll be set up for life. Even more so than with a very good deal from Celtic.
Are you his agent? I'm sure the money might be tempting but as I've said before her's a clever boy. To suggest "He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income" is far too simplistic. He'll need to weigh up a lot of issues. He seems like a sensitive soul to me. I think he'll stay where he's happy. It's not like he'll be poor after playing for us.
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dazabhoy67
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30 Jun 2017, 01:35 PM
Post #2947
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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If he doesn't sign this month, I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell him. I think we should keep him for the CL play off round at least.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 01:35 PM
Post #2948
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- searcher52
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:31 PM
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- 30 Jun 2017, 01:22 PM
- Forza
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:15 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Leaving it behind quickly does have its risks, but his stock may never be this high. Burnley, Brighton, whoever......if they come up with between 50k and 70k per week he'll find it hard to knock back. Playing more European football is no big deal if you're playing in the EPL week in week out. He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income. I'd love him to stay, but I understand every player who moves on for a better deal. They may not flourish footballistically, but they'll be set up for life. Even more so than with a very good deal from Celtic.
Are you his agent? I'm sure the money might be tempting but as I've said before her's a clever boy. To suggest "He'll only really be thinking about maximising his income" is far too simplistic. He'll need to weigh up a lot of issues. Only the very very best get to weigh up other issues. The rest look at the money.
There is also the attraction of playing in the EPL, one of the big 5 leagues.
Forget you support Celtic.....if someone head hunts you at three/four times your current wage, are you going to think about it too much?
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Rosco67
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30 Jun 2017, 01:38 PM
Post #2949
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We're here to eff shampoo up!
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
I like Armstrong as much as the next guy, and I'm aware EPL wages are nuts, but I'd be astounded if anyone down there was offering him £70k p/w.
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searcher52
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30 Jun 2017, 01:39 PM
Post #2950
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:27 PM
- searcher52
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:17 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
To suggest he "holds all the aces" is just nonsense. He may be in a strong bargaining position, however he's under contract to the club for a year AFAIK and the club always has the option of having him sit in the stand. I'm not advocating that they do, but they have that as an option. By your maths he then stands to lose (if at present he is on £20k per week) the best part of £2m before tax. He is a bright guy and can do the sums himself. I'm pretty confident that both parties can come to an amicable agreement which will ensure his future at the club for the foreseeable.
The club will sell him or renew him......he won't be sitting in the stand. If he choses to run down his contract and start speaking to other teams from January, then it's up to Brendan what happens to him football wise. if Brendan wants to use him he will. I don't understand your point about him standing to lose 2m If he stays with Celtic and assuming he is on £20k per week his income for the year would be £20k x 50 = £1m. If, using your argument, he might be lured by a club paying £50k to £70k per week then his possible income (based on a mid range) would be £60k x 50 = £3m. Deduct £1m from £3m = £2m.
So if he plays hardball thinking he can get £60k per week elsewhere and the club say "you're going nowhere for a year, bar the stand", then he has just had all the aces taken away from him. He would also need to bear in mind that training all week and sitting in the stand will mean he'll not necessarily be an attraction for so many other clubs 12 months from now.
I stress, I can't see the club treating him like that and expect a deal will be done.
Edit:spelling
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Dubz
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30 Jun 2017, 01:46 PM
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Lot of panicing going on here, he's here for the foreseeable future and probably more.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 01:47 PM
Post #2952
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- searcher52
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:39 PM
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- 30 Jun 2017, 01:27 PM
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The club will sell him or renew him......he won't be sitting in the stand. If he choses to run down his contract and start speaking to other teams from January, then it's up to Brendan what happens to him football wise. if Brendan wants to use him he will. I don't understand your point about him standing to lose 2m
If he stays with Celtic and assuming he is on £20k per week his income for the year would be £20k x 50 = £1m. If, using your argument, he might be lured by a club paying £50k to £70k per week then his possible income (based on a mid range) would be £60k x 50 = £3m. Deduct £1m from £3m = £2m. So if he plays hardball thinking he can get £60k per week elsewhere and the club say "you're going nowhere for a year, bar the stand", then he has just had all the aces taken away from him. He would also need to bear in mind that training all week and sitting in the stand will mean he'll not necessarily be an attraction for so many other clubs 12 months from now. I stress, I can't see the club treating him like that and expect a deal will be done. Edit:spelling OK, I understand now. However, if he wants a deal down in England, Celtic will reluctantly negotiate to get something for him in this window.
They will not let an asset sit in the stands and also if this were to happen, his stock would go down but he'd still get a better deal by being a free agent.
It all depends on what he wants. If he doesn't get the deal he wants from Celtic, he'll look at his options elsewhere and I don't see Celtic allowing an asset to depreciate to zero.
I hope he stays, wonderful player for us with better to come i think.
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searcher52
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30 Jun 2017, 01:55 PM
Post #2953
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- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:47 PM
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- 30 Jun 2017, 01:39 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:27 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If he stays with Celtic and assuming he is on £20k per week his income for the year would be £20k x 50 = £1m. If, using your argument, he might be lured by a club paying £50k to £70k per week then his possible income (based on a mid range) would be £60k x 50 = £3m. Deduct £1m from £3m = £2m. So if he plays hardball thinking he can get £60k per week elsewhere and the club say "you're going nowhere for a year, bar the stand", then he has just had all the aces taken away from him. He would also need to bear in mind that training all week and sitting in the stand will mean he'll not necessarily be an attraction for so many other clubs 12 months from now. I stress, I can't see the club treating him like that and expect a deal will be done. Edit:spelling
OK, I understand now. However, if he wants a deal down in England, Celtic will reluctantly negotiate to get something for him in this window. They will not let an asset sit in the stands and also if this were to happen, his stock would go down but he'd still get a better deal by being a free agent. It all depends on what he wants. If he doesn't get the deal he wants from Celtic, he'll look at his options elsewhere and I don't see Celtic allowing an asset to depreciate to zero. I hope he stays, wonderful player for us with better to come i think. Precisely, and who brought him on last season to be the "wonderful player"? Brendan Rodgers. At CP Armstrong will know that there will be stability at managerial level. He would have to weigh up the effect on his career and his value if he were to affected by the managerial merry go round that is the EPL. What would happen if he is signed by a Burnley or any other EPL club and is the blue eyed boy only to find that in 3 months time the gaffer changes and he is out of favour?
So it's not just about the money.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 01:56 PM
Post #2954
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- Rosco67
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:38 PM
- BlauGranaBhoy
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:01 PM
He holds all the aces. Undoubtedly he'll have an idea of what he's worth down south and that could be anywhere between 50k and 70k per week on a 4 year deal.
He has won everything here with us. He has nothing else left to prove at Celtic. Maybe going further in Europe....maybe, but to want to do that we will have to make it worth his while.
He's 25, this deal and his next are the biggest of his career.....we have to make it worth his while.
I like Armstrong as much as the next guy, and I'm aware EPL wages are nuts, but I'd be astounded if anyone down there was offering him £70k p/w. That's the sort of money you're talking about down there for an average to good midfielder.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 02:01 PM
Post #2955
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OK, I understand now. However, if he wants a deal down in England, Celtic will reluctantly negotiate to get something for him in this window. They will not let an asset sit in the stands and also if this were to happen, his stock would go down but he'd still get a better deal by being a free agent. It all depends on what he wants. If he doesn't get the deal he wants from Celtic, he'll look at his options elsewhere and I don't see Celtic allowing an asset to depreciate to zero. I hope he stays, wonderful player for us with better to come i think.
Precisely, and who brought him on last season to be the "wonderful player"? Brendan Rodgers. At CP Armstrong will know that there will be stability at managerial level. He would have to weigh up the effect on his career and his value if he were to affected by the managerial merry go round that is the EPL. What would happen if he is signed by a Burnley or any other EPL club and is the blue eyed boy only to find that in 3 months time the gaffer changes and he is out of favour? So it's not just about the money. What would happen? He'd still be earning the big money, that's what would happen.
What happens if he breaks his leg in pre-season? What if, what if?
I can only think of one delay in him not having renewed his contract with us yet. The deal isn't good enough.
If he is happy with all these things, Brendan bringing him on, the managerial stability, the chance of CL football....if all that is there, why has he not renewed yet?
Because the deal is not good enough as far as he (and/or his advisors) are concerned.
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Mackin
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30 Jun 2017, 02:23 PM
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- Haitch
- 30 Jun 2017, 01:12 PM
He's not as replaceable as some seem to think, not cheap to get a midfielder who posses all the quality that Stuart does. I suggest some folk watch some of his performances from last season again. We got a midfielder possessing all of his qualities for less than two million quid.
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BlauGranaBhoy
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30 Jun 2017, 02:24 PM
Post #2957
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- 30 Jun 2017, 02:23 PM
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He's not as replaceable as some seem to think, not cheap to get a midfielder who posses all the quality that Stuart does. I suggest some folk watch some of his performances from last season again.
We got a midfielder possessing all of his qualities for less than two million quid. Have we signed Anton?
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remy mcswain
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30 Jun 2017, 02:32 PM
Post #2958
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EPL club scouts will have watched him against England. They wouldn't have been impressed. Put a time limit on contract offer and, if he doesn't sign, or wants to go, then sell him.
He may not have as many decent options as he thinks.
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Bawman
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30 Jun 2017, 02:43 PM
Post #2959
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- remy mcswain
- 30 Jun 2017, 02:32 PM
He may not have as many decent options as he thinks. FWIW my inclination is that he was hoping that England game would tip a few interested parties in his direction. That he wasn't only bad but in fact rid rotten has had them hold their fire. If he had two seasons in a row with the kind of form he demonstrated last season there'd be at least half a dozen with the money on the table. That he has one solitary season as an important player for us will most likely be giving scouts the heebie jeebies.
Remember the old SPL bias runs deep down there. Players here need to really prove themselves over time if they are to get their big move. My guess is most teams have passed on him in favour of taking another look next Summer where they could still snap him up for a moderate sum by their standards.
That leaves him in a dodgy spot. Re-sign with us, where we hold all the cards about when he moves and/or for how much OR don't sign, take a move to a wannabe team down there (Norwich, Ipswich, Villa etc) and hope he doesn't disappear in a sea of mediocrity to only resurface at Hearts in three seasons. For a smart lad, he is being a bit of an over-analytical twat about this.
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Dubz
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30 Jun 2017, 07:41 PM
Post #2960
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- Bawman
- 30 Jun 2017, 02:43 PM
- remy mcswain
- 30 Jun 2017, 02:32 PM
He may not have as many decent options as he thinks.
FWIW my inclination is that he was hoping that England game would tip a few interested parties in his direction. That he wasn't only bad but in fact rid rotten has had them hold their fire. If he had two seasons in a row with the kind of form he demonstrated last season there'd be at least half a dozen with the money on the table. That he has one solitary season as an important player for us will most likely be giving scouts the heebie jeebies. Remember the old SPL bias runs deep down there. Players here need to really prove themselves over time if they are to get their big move. My guess is most teams have passed on him in favour of taking another look next Summer where they could still snap him up for a moderate sum by their standards. That leaves him in a dodgy spot. Re-sign with us, where we hold all the cards about when he moves and/or for how much OR don't sign, take a move to a wannabe team down there (Norwich, Ipswich, Villa etc) and hope he doesn't disappear in a sea of mediocrity to only resurface at Hearts in three seasons. For a smart lad, he is being a bit of an over-analytical twat about this. You've over analysed that and blamed it on Armstrong.
Armstrongs agent won't get the deal he wants and neither will Celtic, it will be somewhere in the middle. Rodgers has said it a few times now, it's just discussions and he's confident the agent and the club will come to an agreement.
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