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James Forrest; he's awright so he is.
Topic Started: 26 Feb 2015, 09:19 PM (518,068 Views)
ReillyBhoy
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BombJack
3 Mar 2015, 04:21 PM
Something to consider. In 2 months, Forrest will have been playing at some level, 1st team football for 5 years. (Ie he made his debut in May 2010).
Since then he has only amassed 90 appearances (going by the wiki) - with 19 goals in that time.
Is that a decent return on appearances for 5 years?
He is only 23 tho.

15 apps so far this year. (Only 1 goal)
27 last season.
31 season before.

So - what should be his break even point?

Commons by contrast has been here one year less, and has 7 more appearances in that time.

How many games should we be expecting him to play?

(Ps - Michael Owen was another who solved(???) has recurring hamstrings by getting some dental work done)
Thats league games. My earlier post has all competitive games in those seasons. He's had one fit season where he missed only a handful of games... each year hes missed more and more. and did less each year. Commons has played 39 more games I beleive... A full domestic season more than Forrest
Edited by ReillyBhoy, 3 Mar 2015, 04:38 PM.
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McStay
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Espanyolification
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paulfg42
3 Mar 2015, 02:29 PM
Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 02:12 PM
remy mcswain
3 Mar 2015, 01:53 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You talking about this? It hardly shows explosive acceleration to be fair. Did well in the initial challenge, although the two DU players were weak, but then strolled into open space. Didn't "burn" anyone. The fact that he did his hamstring without even breaking into a sprint is not a plus.



Edit to say timecode doesn't seem to be working but it's at 4:30
Strolled ffs. At least be honest in your criticism.

And Forrest would have put away that early GMS chance. :ph43r:
Like he put away the easy chance in the cup away to Dundee?
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Puskas
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Personally I'm going to wait until he's fully fit* and has a shampoo game before sticking the boot in


*I realise I may be waiting some time
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ChiliPepper
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His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
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remy mcswain
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ChiliPepper
3 Mar 2015, 04:50 PM
His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
He is fit now. I'd assume he may get a start on Sunday.

If only we could fix his stinking attitude now.
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Joe the Baker
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Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 03:17 PM
2)He didn't use pace to outstrip them. He used a tidy bit of close control and got away from them. Neither of them chased him, one of them moved back towards the centre forward position, the other ran out to the wing. If you genuinely think he "used pace to outstrip them" you're just seeing what you want to see and there's really no point arguing about this further.
Quote:
 
Forrest is, and I'm not being disrespectful or snide here, a one trick pony to a large extent. He knocks the ball past the defender and leaves him for dust. But now that his pace, and more importantly his burst of acceleration, is nowhere near what he was he doesn't seem to be able to beat a full back down the line anymore. It's been that way for nearly two seasons now.


http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13456200&t=9225103

:ponder:

Edited by Joe the Baker, 3 Mar 2015, 05:05 PM.
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arabba11
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Part of the issue is also that he has been getting played on the left and seems clueless on that side constantly cutting in running into trouble. Ronny should try him on the right . When fit and confident he is still a very potent attacking option.

His lack of interest recently and body language though as been rather worrying. At a time when everyone around him seems to be bursting a gut and playing with hunger and willingness to impress and stay in the team hes been anything but. Whether this is down to fitness or attitude is unknown.
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Patrick_Bateman
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Joe the Baker
3 Mar 2015, 05:04 PM
Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 03:17 PM
2)He didn't use pace to outstrip them. He used a tidy bit of close control and got away from them. Neither of them chased him, one of them moved back towards the centre forward position, the other ran out to the wing. If you genuinely think he "used pace to outstrip them" you're just seeing what you want to see and there's really no point arguing about this further.
Quote:
 
Forrest is, and I'm not being disrespectful or snide here, a one trick pony to a large extent. He knocks the ball past the defender and leaves him for dust. But now that his pace, and more importantly his burst of acceleration, is nowhere near what he was he doesn't seem to be able to beat a full back down the line anymore. It's been that way for nearly two seasons now.


http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13456200&t=9225103

:ponder:

I fail to see what point you're making?

That I agree with myself? Or that saying he used a tidy bit of close control and got away from two defenders who didn't chase him somehow invalidates my opinion that he's a one trick pony to a large extent, especially in comparison to Arjen Robben?
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Gallowgate
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remy mcswain
3 Mar 2015, 05:00 PM
ChiliPepper
3 Mar 2015, 04:50 PM
His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
He is fit now. I'd assume he may get a start on Sunday.

If only we could fix his stinking attitude now.
I'm wondering just how fit he actually is? In recent weeks he's played part of some matches and been left out altogether in others. Can understand why he wasn't played at all on artificial surfaces at Kilmarnock and Hamilton but I think the most he's played is about an hour in the other games.

If he is ever going to be useful for us in future, he'll need to do a lot more that flit about on the edge of games and needs to start putting a shift in like everybody else is now doing. With Armstrong and GMS unable to play against Dundee Utd in the next two games, we might get the chance to find out the answer to how fit Forrest is?

Don't see the current situation continuing beyond this season. He'll either find sustained fitness and much improved form or he'll disappear from the first team squad. There's only so much the club can do.

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Neil Jung
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Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 05:29 PM
Joe the Baker
3 Mar 2015, 05:04 PM
Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 03:17 PM
2)He didn't use pace to outstrip them. He used a tidy bit of close control and got away from them. Neither of them chased him, one of them moved back towards the centre forward position, the other ran out to the wing. If you genuinely think he "used pace to outstrip them" you're just seeing what you want to see and there's really no point arguing about this further.
Quote:
 
Forrest is, and I'm not being disrespectful or snide here, a one trick pony to a large extent. He knocks the ball past the defender and leaves him for dust. But now that his pace, and more importantly his burst of acceleration, is nowhere near what he was he doesn't seem to be able to beat a full back down the line anymore. It's been that way for nearly two seasons now.


http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13456200&t=9225103

:ponder:

I fail to see what point you're making?

That I agree with myself? Or that saying he used a tidy bit of close control and got away from two defenders who didn't chase him somehow invalidates my opinion that he's a one trick pony to a large extent, especially in comparison to Arjen Robben?
Comparing any of our players to Robben talent wise wouldnt flatter them but I'm curious as to your one trick pony assertions. Wouldn't you consider Robben a one trick pony? Run fast, cut inside and shoot is mainly what he does.



Again, I only brought Robben into the discussion because his history of injury problems in the early part of his career. Nothing to do with his talent & Forrest's being comparable.
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Rodan
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Gallowgate
3 Mar 2015, 05:46 PM
remy mcswain
3 Mar 2015, 05:00 PM
ChiliPepper
3 Mar 2015, 04:50 PM
His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
He is fit now. I'd assume he may get a start on Sunday.

If only we could fix his stinking attitude now.
I'm wondering just how fit he actually is? In recent weeks he's played part of some matches and been left out altogether in others. Can understand why he wasn't played at all on artificial surfaces at Kilmarnock and Hamilton but I think the most he's played is about an hour in the other games.

If he is ever going to be useful for us in future, he'll need to do a lot more that flit about on the edge of games and needs to start putting a shift in like everybody else is now doing. With Armstrong and GMS unable to play against Dundee Utd in the next two games, we might get the chance to find out the answer to how fit Forrest is?

Don't see the current situation continuing beyond this season. He'll either find sustained fitness and much improved form or he'll disappear from the first team squad. There's only so much the club can do.

He hasn't been injured for over a month, he should have been fully fit weeks ago.
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Joe the Baker
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Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 05:29 PM
Joe the Baker
3 Mar 2015, 05:04 PM
Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 03:17 PM
2)He didn't use pace to outstrip them. He used a tidy bit of close control and got away from them. Neither of them chased him, one of them moved back towards the centre forward position, the other ran out to the wing. If you genuinely think he "used pace to outstrip them" you're just seeing what you want to see and there's really no point arguing about this further.
Quote:
 
Forrest is, and I'm not being disrespectful or snide here, a one trick pony to a large extent. He knocks the ball past the defender and leaves him for dust. But now that his pace, and more importantly his burst of acceleration, is nowhere near what he was he doesn't seem to be able to beat a full back down the line anymore. It's been that way for nearly two seasons now.


http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13456200&t=9225103

:ponder:

I fail to see what point you're making?

That I agree with myself? Or that saying he used a tidy bit of close control and got away from two defenders who didn't chase him somehow invalidates my opinion that he's a one trick pony to a large extent, especially in comparison to Arjen Robben?
In your post earlier today you labelled him a one trick pony who relied on pace to beat a full back and now his pace is gone he seems unable to get past someone.

In your second post you admitted he used a 'tidy bit of skill' to get past his man as opposed to pace.

So clearly this kinda invalidates your initial one trick pony assessment ?
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BombJack
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ReillyBhoy
3 Mar 2015, 04:35 PM
BombJack
3 Mar 2015, 04:21 PM
Something to consider. In 2 months, Forrest will have been playing at some level, 1st team football for 5 years. (Ie he made his debut in May 2010).
Since then he has only amassed 90 appearances (going by the wiki) - with 19 goals in that time.
Is that a decent return on appearances for 5 years?
He is only 23 tho.

15 apps so far this year. (Only 1 goal)
27 last season.
31 season before.

So - what should be his break even point?

Commons by contrast has been here one year less, and has 7 more appearances in that time.

How many games should we be expecting him to play?

(Ps - Michael Owen was another who solved(???) has recurring hamstrings by getting some dental work done)
Thats league games. My earlier post has all competitive games in those seasons. He's had one fit season where he missed only a handful of games... each year hes missed more and more. and did less each year. Commons has played 39 more games I beleive... A full domestic season more than Forrest
http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=52389&season_id=144

Sorry 19 league goals, 24 - in total from 95 appearances in all comps.

It's a decent goal return I guess - but 95 appearances?

I'm not saying he should or shouldn't have more than this number of games under his belt.

But...

By this stage how many games did McGeady have, or McStay? Maloney?
Comparable players - all brought through the ranks...

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AtLeastIDontWorkInAmazon

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arabba11
3 Mar 2015, 05:25 PM
Part of the issue is also that he has been getting played on the left and seems clueless on that side constantly cutting in running into trouble. Ronny should try him on the right . When fit and confident he is still a very potent attacking option.

His lack of interest recently and body language though as been rather worrying. At a time when everyone around him seems to be bursting a gut and playing with hunger and willingness to impress and stay in the team hes been anything but. Whether this is down to fitness or attitude is unknown.
Forrest has played on the left at different times since be broke through and also played there is the youths.
His initial games where on the left, cutting in and having a shot.
I've no idea where this idea has come from that this is a disadvantage to his play?
I actually remember a lot of people wanting him played through the middle and Neil trying him there a few times.

Maybe Forrest doesn't want to play on the left now, who knows?
If that's the case then his attitude needs improved as we have players now who will keep him out the team.
The front three all interchange through the game now, if Forrest can't or won't do that, then he won't be playing.
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Patrick_Bateman
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Joe the Baker
3 Mar 2015, 05:52 PM
Patrick_Bateman
3 Mar 2015, 05:29 PM
Joe the Baker
3 Mar 2015, 05:04 PM
I fail to see what point you're making?

That I agree with myself? Or that saying he used a tidy bit of close control and got away from two defenders who didn't chase him somehow invalidates my opinion that he's a one trick pony to a large extent, especially in comparison to Arjen Robben?
In your post earlier today you labelled him a one trick pony who relied on pace to beat a full back and now his pace is gone he seems unable to get past someone.

In your second post you admitted he used a 'tidy bit of skill' to get past his man as opposed to pace.

So clearly this kinda invalidates your initial one trick pony assessment ?
Nope.

I said he was a one trick pony to a large extent. Can he beat defenders with skill occasionally? Absolutely. Does he do it often enough? No. He usually just resorts to kick and rush. On that occasion he used some good close control to get past a half arsed tackle from a striker. It doesn't mean he's not a one trick pony when facing up a full back. It's been very noticeable in the past two seasons that he drifts across the 18 yard line with ball now rather than try to beat the full back and get a cross in.
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Frannie2k5
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remy mcswain
2 Mar 2015, 02:36 PM
Rodan
2 Mar 2015, 02:04 PM
remy mcswain
2 Mar 2015, 12:34 PM
Adam Matthews has been out of sorts for a while after coming back from injury. Of late, he's had a run in the team and his pace and confidence appear to be back and he is coming back to the form we know he is capable of.

Forrest could do the same.
I agree, but the main reason Matthews is in the team is because of Lustig's injury. Forrest will need something similiar to happen, in a more sought after position, to get an extended run now.
A fit Forrest is a far better player than Gary Mackay-Steven.
.........eeehhhh.......

Leave that with me.

Are you related to James?
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Frannie2k5
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remy mcswain
3 Mar 2015, 05:00 PM
ChiliPepper
3 Mar 2015, 04:50 PM
His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
He is fit now. I'd assume he may get a start on Sunday.

If only we could fix his stinking attitude now.
His attitude is not 'stinking'.

He has, as yet, to develop one.

It is as plain as the nose on one's face.
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Midfield Maestro
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What's the chat with him getting his tadger out? Is that still an active case?
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adbhoy
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Frannie2k5
4 Mar 2015, 12:21 AM
remy mcswain
3 Mar 2015, 05:00 PM
ChiliPepper
3 Mar 2015, 04:50 PM
His injuries are getting Boerrigter-esque.
He is fit now. I'd assume he may get a start on Sunday.

If only we could fix his stinking attitude now.
His attitude is not 'stinking'.

He has, as yet, to develop one.

It is as plain as the nose on one's face.
His attitude does stink. His body language says it all :thumbsup:
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ShugSty
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When FIT, Forrest has been very good for us and has (had?) the potential to be great player for us - pacy, direct and an eye for goal. Alas, he seems to be made of glass and picks up injuries the way a hypochondriac catches the cold. He's a 21st century Phil O'Donnell - great when fit, but when his match fitness is so rare he becomes a burden on club resources.

I'd give him a chance just now to get to get match sharp, but next injury I'd punt him for dog food.
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