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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,929 Views)
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Tommy_Burns
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28 Aug 2014, 03:47 PM
Post #1881
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:45 PM
It's incredible to think that Lawwell, a man who has such influence over the footballing side of our 'business', his objectives are in no way football-related. He could potentially be relegated and as long as he sells off a few golden eggs, he'll make the profits necessary to trigger another bonus payment approaching £1m.
I wonder if Delia is paid as much? Or if his objectives trigger a similar bonus for football success? I've heard Delia is on as little as a third of what Lennon was on.
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oataat
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28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
Post #1882
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:32 PM
- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:21 PM
But time is something he most certainly will not get if all the ones on here calling for boycotts, cancelling HCTS , cancelling DD for Season Tickets are anything to go by.
Its laughable- we slag Aberdeen,Dundee UTd,Kilmarnock etc about being Glory hunters when we have a support who are exactly the same, want to pack it in as soon as things go pear shaped on the field..... either very young or have very short memories if they think this is bad...
There's absolutely nothing "sudden" about how things have gone 'pear shaped'. The sheer inevitability of it, all the ignored warning signs, and the blind continuation of a policy that is clearly no longer working have resulted in many fans feeling they way they do. It certainly has nothing to do with "glory hunting". Had we have qualified on Wednesday, those same concerns, complaints and reservations would still have been there among the fans. But all it would have done would to have bought the board a bit more time before those feelings, inevitably, manifested themselves in a situation were fans are genuinely considering withdrawing financial support for the club until things change. The fans aren't stupid. You may describe it as "packing things in". Others will make the educated observation that the only language boards understand is financial hits. All the protests, boycotts and demonstrations in the world will have almost eff all impact if the same financial resources are flowing into the club. Once they flow reduce, or stop altogether, then the board have to sit up and take notice of the message being sent. Until that moment - it's business as usual, and the board have tacit approval from the fans to continue the present disastrous policy. You say the policy is clearly no longer working - its worked the past couple of seasons and was 15/20 mins away from working again ie in obtaining CL Qualification. That is about as much as we can really hope for is it not? Last 16 at a push ,certainly nothing beyond that. If the manager gets the signings right then we dont have a problem, if he doesnt as has been the case recently then this is what happens, If Derk had turned out like a Hooper or Berget like Wanyama or Ambrose like VVD ..would things have been different....all transfers are a risk/gamble - has Torres been a success for £50m, spending big on transfers carries no guarantees... no one knows for sure if Deila has money to spend or if the loans have been forced upon him..
We are where we are , why damage the club any more ?
Had we qualified on Wednesday there would have been no talk of boycotts,cancelling tickets,not going back etc etc.... that to me is Glory hunting we may differ in our opinion as to what to call it.
Dont get me wrong I am as angry and upset as the next supporter but football goes in cycles - it always has done.... I am not suddenly going to stop supporting my team just because we didnt reach this seasons CL...
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ax somebody
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28 Aug 2014, 03:56 PM
Post #1883
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:21 PM
- modest mouse
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:09 PM
- Belgrano
- 27 Aug 2014, 10:01 PM
Here's a list of our top 10 highest transfers in our history. As you can see, it's a long, long time since we spent such money on players. In fact, it's more than 5 years now since we spent more than £3m on a player. No-one is even contemplating going back to an era of £5m or £6m signings. But, it's clear when you shop around the £1.5m-£2m mark - you're more than likely to get a 'miss' rather than a 'hit'. All the more difficult to accept when you're taking in £10m or £12.5m fees from player sales (something we never even came close to during the Martin O'Neill era).
1 John Hartson - Coventry City - £6,000,000 - 2 August 2001 2 Chris Sutton - Chelsea - £6,000,000 - 11 July 2000 3 Neil Lennon - Leicester City - £5,750,000 - 8 December 2000 4 Eyal Berkovic - West Ham - £5,750,000 - 8 July 1999 5 Rafael Scheidt - Grêmio - £4,800,000 - 1 January 2000 6 Scott Brown - Hibernian - £4,400,000 - 1 June 2007 7 Joos Valgaeren - Roda JC - £3,800,000 - 28 July 2000 8 Marc-Antoine Fortune - West Bromwich Albion - £3,800,000 - 9 July 2009 9 Alan Stubbs - Bolton Wanderers - £3,500,000 - 1 August 1996 10 Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink - PSV Eindhoven - £3,400,000 - 24 August 2006
The policy of "buy cheap, sell big" is worth pursuing. But when it becomes all-encompassing, and so rigid that it doesn't allow for any other type of signing, or retaining some of those successful signings, then it becomes out downfall. The board have completely exposed the flaws of the policy in recent seasons, and we now find ourself in a position where we have only one player left (Van Dijk) who can realistically get us a big transfer fee, and no top-level European platform on which to showcase or develop our other players. The baw is now, officially, burst. Time for change.
I would agree with the facts and part of your analysis that you post, but I would argue that Ronny Deila is that change. I think the whole point is that, going forward, our emphasis has to be developing our own players, which means giving them game time and a coaching team who are willing to invest their time and energy into their long term development, not just the next few games or this season. That has to be a better long term strategy than continually signing players at the £2m mark, which you rightly say is no guarantee of success. But then what is? I'm not sure what some people are actually looking for here. I don't particularly like many areas of the club's operation, but in terms of signing players and building a successful team I'm not that sure what else we do, other than allow RD and his staff time.
But time is something he most certainly will not get if all the ones on here calling for boycotts, cancelling HCTS , cancelling DD for Season Tickets are anything to go by. Its laughable- we slag Aberdeen,Dundee UTd,Kilmarnock etc about being Glory hunters when we have a support who are exactly the same, want to pack it in as soon as things go pear shaped on the field..... either very young or have very short memories if they think this is bad... Be sure and tell us when it gets bad.
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Wee Ed KTF
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28 Aug 2014, 04:05 PM
Post #1884
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Oataat, I admire your optimism, just as I admire Roseanne's happy-clapping optimism
Unfortunately, however, Celtic FC is in decline - and that decline is accelerating.
Quality of player, quality of team, quality of football, quality of manager, attendances, therefore revenue........everything is in decline, except Peter Lawwell's renumeration.
The worst bit, however, is that it is all self-inflicted.
Lawwell has inflicted more damage on Celtic than any opponent in recent years.
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murphio
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28 Aug 2014, 04:21 PM
Post #1885
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Could start a row in an empty room
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Nice piece from Stephen McGowan in the Mail.
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Johan Mjallby felt regret and disappointment as he watched Celtic crash out of the Champions League to Maribor. Yet, by his own admission, there was no real surprise. The former Parkhead assistant manager resigned and returned to Sweden in April amid concerns the plc board were loathe to invest large sums on new players. After two years of delivering Champions League football, failure at the third time of asking was likely to end as most managerial reigns do. In the sack.
Link
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Belgrano
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28 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
Post #1886
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- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
You say the policy is clearly no longer working - its worked the past couple of seasons and was 15/20 mins away from working again ie in obtaining CL Qualification. That is about as much as we can really hope for is it not? Last 16 at a push ,certainly nothing beyond that. If the manager gets the signings right then we dont have a problem, if he doesnt as has been the case recently then this is what happens, If Derk had turned out like a Hooper or Berget like Wanyama or Ambrose like VVD ..would things have been different....all transfers are a risk/gamble - has Torres been a success for £50m, spending big on transfers carries no guarantees... no one knows for sure if Deila has money to spend or if the loans have been forced upon him..
We are where we are , why damage the club any more ?
Had we qualified on Wednesday there would have been no talk of boycotts,cancelling tickets,not going back etc etc.... that to me is Glory hunting we may differ in our opinion as to what to call it.
Dont get me wrong I am as angry and upset as the next supporter but football goes in cycles - it always has done.... I am not suddenly going to stop supporting my team just because we didnt reach this seasons CL... If you're happy with the way the club is being run, then that's good for you. But I think you'll find yourself increasingly in the minority.
You say the policy almost worked? That had we qualified on Wednesday, everything would have been rosey in the garden. But it isn't. We didn't qualify. And I don't think too many of us are surprised we didn't qualify. We rode our luck big time last season, and were a crossbar away from being put out by Karagandy. Then despite those warning flags that the team needed investment, we didn't sign anyone else and inevitably finished rock bottom of our group.
This season we knew we faced similar challenges in qualifying. We had over 6 months to prepare for qualification - line up some signings, attempt to consolidate and keep some of our better players, or plan for how we were to progress. Instead we've sold our best player for £10m and the guy who scored our winner against Barcelona. And spent not a penny on the side to strengthen or replace it. And that's also not even taking into account that we've also lost Ledley and Samaras from that same qualification period last year.
If you think it's about "glory hunting" or just a recent thing, then you deserve everything the board will continue to give you. And that's exactly what they will do, unless the language of money (or, more accurately, lack of) starts getting the message through to them that the current policy isn't working.
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paulfg42
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28 Aug 2014, 07:14 PM
Post #1887
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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- murphio
- 28 Aug 2014, 04:21 PM
Nice piece from Stephen McGowan in the Mail. - Quote:
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Johan Mjallby felt regret and disappointment as he watched Celtic crash out of the Champions League to Maribor. Yet, by his own admission, there was no real surprise. The former Parkhead assistant manager resigned and returned to Sweden in April amid concerns the plc board were loathe to invest large sums on new players. After two years of delivering Champions League football, failure at the third time of asking was likely to end as most managerial reigns do. In the sack. Link Maybe some posters still supporting the board will read that and see the light. Mjallby has been badly missed.
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Tubbytubthumper
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28 Aug 2014, 07:36 PM
Post #1888
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I have heard today that the youth budget has been slashed over the last couple of years with the football coaches acting as taxi drivers picking up the young players and dropping them off. Also told that the club have made drastic changes to operating costs throughout the club - was a wee bit worrying considering we are supposed to be a big club
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Belgrano
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28 Aug 2014, 07:38 PM
Post #1889
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Lawwell gets paid £20,000-a-week, making him our highest paid striker at the club. And like the rest of them - he's shyte.
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Willie Wonka
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28 Aug 2014, 07:55 PM
Post #1890
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Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
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Fc Basel in pot2, anyone know how their finances / wage bill etc compare to ours.
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wigwam
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28 Aug 2014, 08:04 PM
Post #1891
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- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:32 PM
- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:21 PM
But time is something he most certainly will not get if all the ones on here calling for boycotts, cancelling HCTS , cancelling DD for Season Tickets are anything to go by.
Its laughable- we slag Aberdeen,Dundee UTd,Kilmarnock etc about being Glory hunters when we have a support who are exactly the same, want to pack it in as soon as things go pear shaped on the field..... either very young or have very short memories if they think this is bad...
There's absolutely nothing "sudden" about how things have gone 'pear shaped'. The sheer inevitability of it, all the ignored warning signs, and the blind continuation of a policy that is clearly no longer working have resulted in many fans feeling they way they do. It certainly has nothing to do with "glory hunting". Had we have qualified on Wednesday, those same concerns, complaints and reservations would still have been there among the fans. But all it would have done would to have bought the board a bit more time before those feelings, inevitably, manifested themselves in a situation were fans are genuinely considering withdrawing financial support for the club until things change. The fans aren't stupid. You may describe it as "packing things in". Others will make the educated observation that the only language boards understand is financial hits. All the protests, boycotts and demonstrations in the world will have almost eff all impact if the same financial resources are flowing into the club. Once they flow reduce, or stop altogether, then the board have to sit up and take notice of the message being sent. Until that moment - it's business as usual, and the board have tacit approval from the fans to continue the present disastrous policy.
You say the policy is clearly no longer working - its worked the past couple of seasons and was 15/20 mins away from working again ie in obtaining CL Qualification. That is about as much as we can really hope for is it not? Last 16 at a push ,certainly nothing beyond that. If the manager gets the signings right then we dont have a problem, if he doesnt as has been the case recently then this is what happens, If Derk had turned out like a Hooper or Berget like Wanyama or Ambrose like VVD ..would things have been different....all transfers are a risk/gamble - has Torres been a success for £50m, spending big on transfers carries no guarantees... no one knows for sure if Deila has money to spend or if the loans have been forced upon him.. We are where we are , why damage the club any more ? Had we qualified on Wednesday there would have been no talk of boycotts,cancelling tickets,not going back etc etc.... that to me is Glory hunting we may differ in our opinion as to what to call it. Dont get me wrong I am as angry and upset as the next supporter but football goes in cycles - it always has done.... I am not suddenly going to stop supporting my team just because we didnt reach this seasons CL... Did boycotting during the final days of the old board damage the club?
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tacticalgenius
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28 Aug 2014, 09:15 PM
Post #1892
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 07:38 PM
Lawwell gets paid £20,000-a-week, making him our highest paid striker at the club. And like the rest of them - he's shyte. That has been irritating me recently. In 2003 I understand the CEO was on about a sixth of the salary of the top player(s) at the club. Since Ledley and Samaras left Lawwell is now probably the second-highest paid person in the organisation behind Brown.
And this is while the turnover, share price, football performance and in sum, the business, is shrinking.
He's done a lot right in the 8 years he's been here but it is unquestionably time-up. We could get better for cheaper, i.e. better value (a concept he himself holds as most important) at the drop of a hat for his job.
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Glorious_1967
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28 Aug 2014, 09:20 PM
Post #1893
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:45 PM
It's incredible to think that Lawwell, a man who has such influence over the footballing side of our 'business', his objectives are in no way football-related. He could potentially be relegated and as long as he sells off a few golden eggs, he'll make the profits necessary to trigger another bonus payment approaching £1m.
I wonder if Delia is paid as much? Or if his objectives trigger a similar bonus for football success? From what I've heard Deila is paid well below a number of first XI players.
Even Watt iirc
- Murphio
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Nice piece from Stephen McGowan in the Mail. - Quote:
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Johan Mjallby felt regret and disappointment as he watched Celtic crash out of the Champions League to Maribor. Yet, by his own admission, there was no real surprise. The former Parkhead assistant manager resigned and returned to Sweden in April amid concerns the plc board were loathe to invest large sums on new players. After two years of delivering Champions League football, failure at the third time of asking was likely to end as most managerial reigns do. In the sack. Link So we went out because we didn't spent enough? We bought extremely poorly over the last 18 months.
Even that should be sufficient to beat Maribor & Legia who barely bought anyone above 150k €.
The old Stevie Fletcher-schemata pulled out.
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guinness07
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28 Aug 2014, 09:21 PM
Post #1894
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Will there be a online link to PL's interview tomorrow? someone share a link please? and why is Keevins hosting it? wasnt he chucked outta CP not to recently? hmmm
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Belgrano
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28 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
Post #1895
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From Lawwell, as recently as February this year:
Celtic now have £5.7m in the bank and, with Lawwell describing the Scottish champions as arguably being in the best financial health in their history, he pledged to make up to £8m available for one player - so long as Lennon and his scouting team can convince him the target represents value for money. "Neil will have substantial funds to spend in the summer," said Lawwell. "We’re in arguably the best financial state we’ve ever been in but it makes no sense to keep the money in the bank. We want to invest in the club by investing in good footballers that create value for the club."
Is that right Peter? Wonder if he'll change his tune in his 'exclusive' interview with Clyde tomorrow?
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Auldyin
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28 Aug 2014, 09:46 PM
Post #1896
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- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:32 PM
- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:21 PM
But time is something he most certainly will not get if all the ones on here calling for boycotts, cancelling HCTS , cancelling DD for Season Tickets are anything to go by.
Its laughable- we slag Aberdeen,Dundee UTd,Kilmarnock etc about being Glory hunters when we have a support who are exactly the same, want to pack it in as soon as things go pear shaped on the field..... either very young or have very short memories if they think this is bad...
There's absolutely nothing "sudden" about how things have gone 'pear shaped'. The sheer inevitability of it, all the ignored warning signs, and the blind continuation of a policy that is clearly no longer working have resulted in many fans feeling they way they do. It certainly has nothing to do with "glory hunting". Had we have qualified on Wednesday, those same concerns, complaints and reservations would still have been there among the fans. But all it would have done would to have bought the board a bit more time before those feelings, inevitably, manifested themselves in a situation were fans are genuinely considering withdrawing financial support for the club until things change. The fans aren't stupid. You may describe it as "packing things in". Others will make the educated observation that the only language boards understand is financial hits. All the protests, boycotts and demonstrations in the world will have almost eff all impact if the same financial resources are flowing into the club. Once they flow reduce, or stop altogether, then the board have to sit up and take notice of the message being sent. Until that moment - it's business as usual, and the board have tacit approval from the fans to continue the present disastrous policy.
You say the policy is clearly no longer working - its worked the past couple of seasons and was 15/20 mins away from working again ie in obtaining CL Qualification. That is about as much as we can really hope for is it not? Last 16 at a push ,certainly nothing beyond that. If the manager gets the signings right then we dont have a problem, if he doesnt as has been the case recently then this is what happens, If Derk had turned out like a Hooper or Berget like Wanyama or Ambrose like VVD ..would things have been different....all transfers are a risk/gamble - has Torres been a success for £50m, spending big on transfers carries no guarantees... no one knows for sure if Deila has money to spend or if the loans have been forced upon him.. We are where we are , why damage the club any more ? Had we qualified on Wednesday there would have been no talk of boycotts,cancelling tickets,not going back etc etc.... that to me is Glory hunting we may differ in our opinion as to what to call it. Dont get me wrong I am as angry and upset as the next supporter but football goes in cycles - it always has done.... I am not suddenly going to stop supporting my team just because we didnt reach this seasons CL... This. Its cyclical.
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murphio
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28 Aug 2014, 09:48 PM
Post #1897
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Could start a row in an empty room
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- Auldyin
- 28 Aug 2014, 09:46 PM
- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:32 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You say the policy is clearly no longer working - its worked the past couple of seasons and was 15/20 mins away from working again ie in obtaining CL Qualification. That is about as much as we can really hope for is it not? Last 16 at a push ,certainly nothing beyond that. If the manager gets the signings right then we dont have a problem, if he doesnt as has been the case recently then this is what happens, If Derk had turned out like a Hooper or Berget like Wanyama or Ambrose like VVD ..would things have been different....all transfers are a risk/gamble - has Torres been a success for £50m, spending big on transfers carries no guarantees... no one knows for sure if Deila has money to spend or if the loans have been forced upon him.. We are where we are , why damage the club any more ? Had we qualified on Wednesday there would have been no talk of boycotts,cancelling tickets,not going back etc etc.... that to me is Glory hunting we may differ in our opinion as to what to call it. Dont get me wrong I am as angry and upset as the next supporter but football goes in cycles - it always has done.... I am not suddenly going to stop supporting my team just because we didnt reach this seasons CL...
This. Its cyclical. Auldyin's been up at CP for tea and biscuits again.
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tinsoldier
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28 Aug 2014, 09:51 PM
Post #1898
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
From Lawwell, as recently as February this year:
Celtic now have £5.7m in the bank and, with Lawwell describing the Scottish champions as arguably being in the best financial health in their history, he pledged to make up to £8m available for one player - so long as Lennon and his scouting team can convince him the target represents value for money. "Neil will have substantial funds to spend in the summer," said Lawwell. "We’re in arguably the best financial state we’ve ever been in but it makes no sense to keep the money in the bank. We want to invest in the club by investing in good footballers that create value for the club."
Is that right Peter? Wonder if he'll change his tune in his 'exclusive' interview with Clyde tomorrow? "Up to £8m available for one player". Oh FFS.
Tomorrow will be stage managed nonsense, a game of Lawwell bingo for the listeners.
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wigwam
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28 Aug 2014, 09:51 PM
Post #1899
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- murphio
- 28 Aug 2014, 09:48 PM
- Auldyin
- 28 Aug 2014, 09:46 PM
- oataat
- 28 Aug 2014, 03:54 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This. Its cyclical.
Auldyin's been up at CP for tea and biscuits again.
It's not really cyclical, even if it was, would you advocate just sitting on your hands doing nothing, expecting your 'turn' to come round again? No effort required at all, just a bit of patience?
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Poggibonsi
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28 Aug 2014, 09:55 PM
Post #1900
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- Belgrano
- 28 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
From Lawwell, as recently as February this year:
Celtic now have £5.7m in the bank and, with Lawwell describing the Scottish champions as arguably being in the best financial health in their history, he pledged to make up to £8m available for one player - so long as Lennon and his scouting team can convince him the target represents value for money. "Neil will have substantial funds to spend in the summer," said Lawwell. "We’re in arguably the best financial state we’ve ever been in but it makes no sense to keep the money in the bank. We want to invest in the club by investing in good footballers that create value for the club."
Is that right Peter? Wonder if he'll change his tune in his 'exclusive' interview with Clyde tomorrow? We actually had over £16 million in bank at end of December. The £5.7m was net cash - basically what we'd have left if we paid back all our debt. So there really ought to have been "substantial funds" available. Wonder what's happened to it!!
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