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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,950 Views)
Kingslim
69 and counting
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lenobhoy
13 Aug 2014, 07:07 AM
Dewey
13 Aug 2014, 05:27 AM
murphio
12 Aug 2014, 06:47 PM
Waiting until after the Champions League qualifiers is absurd. If you are going to invest it should be with a view to chasing the Champions League money and recouping the outlay. In fact I'd argue that if we don't make the Champions League it would make more sense not to spend. Why spend money on winning a prize we will win in any case?
As much as it pains me, this makes sense as long as we have enough to win the league. Kills me to say it.

Thanks all for the financial insight. :thumbsup:
I'll tell ye why, because you have a team that has bedded in & you build for the future. So we buy x,y & z player, don't get the CL but win the league. It doesn't matter,the team have become accustomed to playing togther for a year, we build the team & the fans come along to games to see exciting/skillful players & we get more of a chance of qualifying next season for the CL by not scrambling about looking for playersin at the last minute.
Bang on matey :thumbsup:
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tacticalgenius
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The thing that is really ripping my knitting is the wagebill argument. Not that we should up it in line with ridiculous football inflation but we should up it each year rather than slash it in the face of ridiculous football inflation. And if that means we have less to spend on outgoing transfer fees, so be it. In some instances it is surely better to pay more on wages than fees. If I understand it correctly, when they amortise player costs over the duration of the contract anyway it makes zero difference to the famed balance sheet whether it's wages or transfer fees.

Why is there some fear by the board of paying players more than the upper limit of what we were paying fifteen effing years ago? And as a consequence of the lowering of the wage limit (and overall bill, presumably) the (in his own right overpaid) Chief Executive is probably the second highest paid individual in the organisation behind the club captain. Nothing annoying about that whatsoever in light of the team's ever diminishing quality on the park.
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Belgrano
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tacticalgenius
13 Aug 2014, 04:31 PM
The thing that is really ripping my knitting is the wagebill argument.
It's an attempted clever deflection from the fact we're not even paying transfer fees now. Have the fans debate and argue about what level of wages we should be paying, and soon they've started to forget that we're not even forking out a single penny for transfers. Claim it as some sort of "success" when we sign a player on a 'competitive' wage.

They think we're zipped up the back.
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Mubo Loravcik
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Belgrano
13 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
tacticalgenius
13 Aug 2014, 04:31 PM
The thing that is really ripping my knitting is the wagebill argument.
It's an attempted clever deflection from the fact we're not even paying transfer fees now. Have the fans debate and argue about what level of wages we should be paying, and soon they've started to forget that we're not even forking out a single penny for transfers. Claim it as some sort of "success" when we sign a player on a 'competitive' wage.

They think we're zipped up the back.
The problem is than more than just downsizing on the park, the board (Lawwell) have downsized the collective support's expectations to such a paltry low.
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tacticalgenius
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Belgrano
13 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
tacticalgenius
13 Aug 2014, 04:31 PM
The thing that is really ripping my knitting is the wagebill argument.
It's an attempted clever deflection from the fact we're not even paying transfer fees now. Have the fans debate and argue about what level of wages we should be paying, and soon they've started to forget that we're not even forking out a single penny for transfers. Claim it as some sort of "success" when we sign a player on a 'competitive' wage.

They think we're zipped up the back.
That's the case this year but it's been going on for a couple of years now and in that time we have outlaid money for players. VVD, Forster, Pukki all around the £2M mark and a raft of players around the £1M level. I think the wagebill argument more serves to put an artificial ceiling on the amount we will outlay for any player. That £6-8M for aplayer was a de facto lie because PL knew when he siad that there wasn't a player in the world moving for £6M that would accept a salary at the top of our wage structure.

This is to say that I think over the course of even this transfer window we will be buying players for fees, maybe even totalling £7-8M. But there will probably be something stupid like 7 of them paid within this diminished wage structure when it should be about 2 (or 3 at the most) getting paid money commensurate with a £4M transfer (And I mean across Europe, not from England).
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Belgrano
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The board have also got a cheek even bring up the issue of wages, as most of the 'dead wood' in the squad is made up of their terrible punts and speculative signings, players who collectively have taken up a huge chunk of the profits we made on selling our proven players. They now tell us wage considerations are stopping new signings coming in, while their glaring mistake signings are the root cause of that.
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Dannybhoy95
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Belgrano
13 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
They think we're zipped up the back.
A good portion are. Some will try and put a positive spin on the events of the past few months just because it's Celtic.
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drks
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Our wage structure is the problem, we would rather have three mediocre players on 10k (on a wish and a prayer that one is a success even if the other two flop) than one good one on 30k. It's a classic bit of businessman thinking, spreading the risk, but it doesn't make sense for a football club which is financially relatively sound.
Edited by drks, 13 Aug 2014, 05:39 PM.
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murphio
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tacticalgenius
13 Aug 2014, 04:41 PM
Belgrano
13 Aug 2014, 04:35 PM
tacticalgenius
13 Aug 2014, 04:31 PM
The thing that is really ripping my knitting is the wagebill argument.
It's an attempted clever deflection from the fact we're not even paying transfer fees now. Have the fans debate and argue about what level of wages we should be paying, and soon they've started to forget that we're not even forking out a single penny for transfers. Claim it as some sort of "success" when we sign a player on a 'competitive' wage.

They think we're zipped up the back.
That's the case this year but it's been going on for a couple of years now and in that time we have outlaid money for players. VVD, Forster, Pukki all around the £2M mark and a raft of players around the £1M level. I think the wagebill argument more serves to put an artificial ceiling on the amount we will outlay for any player. That £6-8M for aplayer was a de facto lie because PL knew when he siad that there wasn't a player in the world moving for £6M that would accept a salary at the top of our wage structure.

This is to say that I think over the course of even this transfer window we will be buying players for fees, maybe even totalling £7-8M. But there will probably be something stupid like 7 of them paid within this diminished wage structure when it should be about 2 (or 3 at the most) getting paid money commensurate with a £4M transfer (And I mean across Europe, not from England).
This is exactly right; our wage ceiling means there is also a likely cap in the kind of transfers we will be involved in.
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Moey 67
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drks
13 Aug 2014, 05:38 PM
Our wage structure is the problem, we would rather have three mediocre players on 10k (on a wish and a prayer that one is a success even if the other two flop) than one good one on 30k. It's a classic bit of businessman thinking, spreading the risk, but it doesn't make sense for a football club which is financially relatively sound.
There's no denying that the club have done financially well over the last couple of years - however, I wouldn't say they are financially sound.

In the 2008/09 season we had approx 53k season ticket holders - with average crowds of approx 57k per game.

It's looking like ST sales for this year will be under 40k - with average crowds not being much more.

That's a helluva drop over 5 years.

There are also long-term loans of approx £11M (I think) payable in 5 years time, although we have the option to pay these off early.
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sevilliano
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Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

Football is cyclical and we've had our good times so we can expect a downturn

We can't afford wages of striker who is in reasonable fee quality range ie c4m

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki

The new manager needs time as he'll get more out of the team than Lennon once he's had time as complacency had set in

Basically it's a polite eff off to any criticism and we'll bunker down as we know we are right

It's worrying on a number of fronts

Football is cyclical but they appear to be accepting a world where we get left further and further behind in Europe with pl and this board having failed to deliver one innovation in 11-15 years since fergus left

They don't seem to understand that within reason you can have very well paid players and other tiers of players - if you grow your own and don't sign too many duds

That they don't understand our academy teams may do well but their purpose is not to do well as teams but provide players for first team to help offset cost of proven quality

They don't have a clue about football if they think this team is equivalent to lennons last 16 team

They don't have a clue about football if they think likes of pukki are going to be our new hooper

They don't have a clue if they think a complacent team who have performed well in the past with other quality as part of team there are going to be managed/chastened by a Norwegian nobody in theur eyes who has no players to sub in for them

I think the board are in the words of our esteemed gcc leader basically saying bring it on

Feel sorry for Delia as you never know he may have ability but they're going to make life as difficult as possible for all concerned as they've already factored in a dip till huns come back
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Mubo Loravcik
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sevilliano
15 Aug 2014, 05:44 PM
Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

Football is cyclical and we've had our good times so we can expect a downturn

We can't afford wages of striker who is in reasonable fee quality range ie c4m

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki

The new manager needs time as he'll get more out of the team than Lennon once he's had time as complacency had set in

Basically it's a polite eff off to any criticism and we'll bunker down as we know we are right

It's worrying on a number of fronts

Football is cyclical but they appear to be accepting a world where we get left further and further behind in Europe with pl and this board having failed to deliver one innovation in 11-15 years since fergus left

They don't seem to understand that within reason you can have very well paid players and other tiers of players - if you grow your own and don't sign too many duds

That they don't understand our academy teams may do well but their purpose is not to do well as teams but provide players for first team to help offset cost of proven quality

They don't have a clue about football if they think this team is equivalent to lennons last 16 team

They don't have a clue about football if they think likes of pukki are going to be our new hooper

They don't have a clue if they think a complacent team who have performed well in the past with other quality as part of team there are going to be managed/chastened by a Norwegian nobody in theur eyes who has no players to sub in for them

I think the board are in the words of our esteemed gcc leader basically saying bring it on

Feel sorry for Delia as you never know he may have ability but they're going to make life as difficult as possible for all concerned as they've already factored in a dip till huns come back
There's downturn and then there's spending not a single penny on transfer fees.

Oh so very predictable :nono:
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MBhoy1888
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Getting on a bit
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sevilliano
15 Aug 2014, 05:44 PM
Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

Football is cyclical and we've had our good times so we can expect a downturn

We can't afford wages of striker who is in reasonable fee quality range ie c4m

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki

The new manager needs time as he'll get more out of the team than Lennon once he's had time as complacency had set in

Basically it's a polite eff off to any criticism and we'll bunker down as we know we are right

It's worrying on a number of fronts

Football is cyclical but they appear to be accepting a world where we get left further and further behind in Europe with pl and this board having failed to deliver one innovation in 11-15 years since fergus left

They don't seem to understand that within reason you can have very well paid players and other tiers of players - if you grow your own and don't sign too many duds

That they don't understand our academy teams may do well but their purpose is not to do well as teams but provide players for first team to help offset cost of proven quality

They don't have a clue about football if they think this team is equivalent to lennons last 16 team

They don't have a clue about football if they think likes of pukki are going to be our new hooper

They don't have a clue if they think a complacent team who have performed well in the past with other quality as part of team there are going to be managed/chastened by a Norwegian nobody in theur eyes who has no players to sub in for them

I think the board are in the words of our esteemed gcc leader basically saying bring it on

Feel sorry for Delia as you never know he may have ability but they're going to make life as difficult as possible for all concerned as they've already factored in a dip till huns come back
The board will look at things from business point of view, knowing that barring a Mowbrayesque catastraeff they will get through the current 'downturn' relatively unscathed and then invest more at some later date when the return is greater. The league would be won and they will no doubt be hoping on some level for sevco to arrive next season and peak the interest of many folk who will be looking to see us thump them in 4 games in a show of dominance, theres no denying if/when those games come about they will be box office. On the issue of wages I do find it striking that our chief exec as I understand it is getting a basic salary that is nearly double that of some counterparts in the prem and a net which is pushing the silly money paid by top clubs, and far more than COs of companies outside football with comparable turnover are getting, seemingly none of the clubs other financial or administrative staff balk at this so why is it so important that there be such an iron cast wage structure for players ? In the end as well I think many folk are failing to see the effect that the stagnation of Scottish football is having on the club, theres just no interest in the game in this country from outside and that is not going to improve any time soon.
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Zurawski 7
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sevilliano
15 Aug 2014, 05:44 PM
Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki
i presume theyve started brainwashing people in board meetings now?

Posted Image
Edited by Zurawski 7, 15 Aug 2014, 06:22 PM.
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paulfg42
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It's a self-generated downturn ffs.

That Lawwell and the board can't see or refuse to acknowledge the decline in quality is utterly depressing and confirms that nothing will be done unless supporters remove their financial backing.
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harryhoodshatrick
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Moey 67
13 Aug 2014, 05:56 PM
drks
13 Aug 2014, 05:38 PM
Our wage structure is the problem, we would rather have three mediocre players on 10k (on a wish and a prayer that one is a success even if the other two flop) than one good one on 30k. It's a classic bit of businessman thinking, spreading the risk, but it doesn't make sense for a football club which is financially relatively sound.
There's no denying that the club have done financially well over the last couple of years - however, I wouldn't say they are financially sound.

In the 2008/09 season we had approx 53k season ticket holders - with average crowds of approx 57k per game.

It's looking like ST sales for this year will be under 40k - with average crowds not being much more.

That's a helluva drop over 5 years.

There are also long-term loans of approx £11M (I think) payable in 5 years time, although we have the option to pay these off early.
The board have got to get the balance right between spending enough money to keep selling season tickets and getting into the c.l. and not getting the club into financial difficulties.Unfotunately most Celtic fans who I know think the board don't get the right balance and in terms of our team are asset strippers.
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neverboo
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Belgrano
13 Aug 2014, 05:20 PM
The board have also got a cheek even bring up the issue of wages, as most of the 'dead wood' in the squad is made up of their terrible punts and speculative signings, players who collectively have taken up a huge chunk of the profits we made on selling our proven players. They now tell us wage considerations are stopping new signings coming in, while their glaring mistake signings are the root cause of that.

Good post we need a smaller squad with some quality especially an exciting centre forward,ship the ones that we can all see will never make the grade and free up some decent cash
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lenobhoy
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paulfg42
15 Aug 2014, 06:42 PM
It's a self-generated downturn ffs.

That Lawwell and the board can't see or refuse to acknowledge the decline in quality is utterly depressing and confirms that nothing will be done unless supporters remove their financial backing.
Exactly. It is a downturn that they generate. If you had a proper youth system that care not a jot about winning youth leagues but in producing better players, if you had scouting network that did not pick up eejits like Bangura or Murphy (i.e if we selected quality over quantity) and if you pushed the boat our for one or two exciting players, then you would not have a downturn. There is no strategic planning, see the buys of Pukki at the last minute and no proper strategy in place.
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Corky Buczek
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Trolololo
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sevilliano
15 Aug 2014, 05:44 PM
Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

Football is cyclical and we've had our good times so we can expect a downturn

We can't afford wages of striker who is in reasonable fee quality range ie c4m

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki

The new manager needs time as he'll get more out of the team than Lennon once he's had time as complacency had set in

Basically it's a polite eff off to any criticism and we'll bunker down as we know we are right

It's worrying on a number of fronts

Football is cyclical but they appear to be accepting a world where we get left further and further behind in Europe with pl and this board having failed to deliver one innovation in 11-15 years since fergus left

They don't seem to understand that within reason you can have very well paid players and other tiers of players - if you grow your own and don't sign too many duds

That they don't understand our academy teams may do well but their purpose is not to do well as teams but provide players for first team to help offset cost of proven quality

They don't have a clue about football if they think this team is equivalent to lennons last 16 team

They don't have a clue about football if they think likes of pukki are going to be our new hooper

They don't have a clue if they think a complacent team who have performed well in the past with other quality as part of team there are going to be managed/chastened by a Norwegian nobody in theur eyes who has no players to sub in for them

I think the board are in the words of our esteemed gcc leader basically saying bring it on

Feel sorry for Delia as you never know he may have ability but they're going to make life as difficult as possible for all concerned as they've already factored in a dip till huns come back
If having watched our performances in Europe over the past 13 months, they can't see something is wrong, then we are up shampoo-creek. One suspects a long protracted battle, with folk voting with their feet before things improve.

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lenobhoy
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Corky Buczek
15 Aug 2014, 09:21 PM
sevilliano
15 Aug 2014, 05:44 PM
Got the clearest indication of the board thinking today from someone close to the board

Football is cyclical and we've had our good times so we can expect a downturn

We can't afford wages of striker who is in reasonable fee quality range ie c4m

The team isn't as bad as people think - in fact it's not that much different from when Lennon made last 16

Some of our as yet unproven forward line will come good eg pukki

The new manager needs time as he'll get more out of the team than Lennon once he's had time as complacency had set in

Basically it's a polite eff off to any criticism and we'll bunker down as we know we are right

It's worrying on a number of fronts

Football is cyclical but they appear to be accepting a world where we get left further and further behind in Europe with pl and this board having failed to deliver one innovation in 11-15 years since fergus left

They don't seem to understand that within reason you can have very well paid players and other tiers of players - if you grow your own and don't sign too many duds

That they don't understand our academy teams may do well but their purpose is not to do well as teams but provide players for first team to help offset cost of proven quality

They don't have a clue about football if they think this team is equivalent to lennons last 16 team

They don't have a clue about football if they think likes of pukki are going to be our new hooper

They don't have a clue if they think a complacent team who have performed well in the past with other quality as part of team there are going to be managed/chastened by a Norwegian nobody in theur eyes who has no players to sub in for them

I think the board are in the words of our esteemed gcc leader basically saying bring it on

Feel sorry for Delia as you never know he may have ability but they're going to make life as difficult as possible for all concerned as they've already factored in a dip till huns come back
If having watched our performances in Europe over the past 13 months, they can't see something is wrong, then we are up shampoo-creek. One suspects a long protracted battle, with folk voting with their feet before things improve.

Then they will have created the downturn that they anticipated. Clever or stupid, it will come to fruition. Meanwhile Pistol Pete, will still come away with a big pay cheque and say that he was ahead of the game, instead of getting our infrastructure sorted and planning to build for gradual success.
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