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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,953 Views)
Mubo Loravcik
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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The point regarding out transfer strategy is not about how it's being spent, it's the fact no money has been spent at all.

Yet some Celtic fans, even those on podcasts which I like (i.e 90 Minute Cynic), see no reason to be concerned. I find that incomprehensible
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DELSCORES
First-team starter
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Given that we were odds on to win the SPL without Sevco, I thought that there was a great opportunity to build a team that could have a real go at advancing in the CL, I haven't felt so let down since Wayne Biggins etc.
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guinness07
First team training
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Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
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Rieper's Toe
First team training
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guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Or you could just read the audited accounts to see where it went instead of posting libelous rubbish ?
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OptimusCheese
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Tell my mother that I never wrote a whack jam.
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guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Yes, billionaire Dermott Desmond is secretly using Celtic to keep himself in mustache combs.
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Dewey
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Formerly Flatlandbhoy
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Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Or you could just read the audited accounts to see where it went instead of posting libelous rubbish ?
Agree there is no need for conspiracy nonsense when the books are right there to see. :thumbsup:

But where do last year's profits go? Honest question. Are they distributed? Re-invested in non-football investments? They aren't re-invested in the playing squad! I have no clue.

What is clear is that profits are being had by transfer income, reducing player wages, and reduction of employees (50 fewer employees from 5 years ago). A real wonder considering ST and general attendance is way down over those 5 years.
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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Dewey
12 Aug 2014, 06:25 PM
Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Or you could just read the audited accounts to see where it went instead of posting libelous rubbish ?
Agree there is no need for conspiracy nonsense when the books are right there to see. :thumbsup:

But where do last year's profits go? Honest question. Are they distributed? Re-invested in non-football investments? They aren't re-invested in the playing squad! I have no clue.

What is clear is that profits are being had by transfer income, reducing player wages, and reduction of employees (50 fewer employees from 5 years ago). A real wonder considering ST and general attendance is way down over those 5 years.
Bank debt came down from 7m to just over 100k as I remember.
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CaltonBhoy1967
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Billy McNeill - "Mr Celtic"
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guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Hmm!!!!

Desmond is on Forbes list as having net worth of £2 billion plus - Celtic in a good year have a turnover of £60 million not profit - I think you may well be on to something? :hmmm:














:bawman:
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Jungle_G
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Considering retirement
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Kingslim
12 Aug 2014, 06:00 PM
But the board have just been as culpable in letting players go as they have with the chronic lack of investment. Most teams have a cycle then they break it up due mainly due to an ageing side. Lawell has dismantled a side that hadn't even reached it's peak. Hooper went for an extra few grand. Ledley was a 6m player and went for buttons, Sammy allowed to go for feck all.

This is what's killing me right now. I mean you can make different cases with different individuals obviously in terms of the timing of departures and whatnot but it got to a point where it's almost as if any player who proved himself a success and was open to staying on improved terms met with an automatic GTF then, there's plenty more projects where you came from! response. ll well and good patting yourself on the back for job well done - and obviously lots went right to get us to where we were 18 months ago in the CL, but you can cross the line into believing your own hype and it looks very much like that mindset took hold somewhere above the manager, leading to NL feeling increasingly constrained, marginalised and frustrated. Ideally you want the right balance of established players for continuity's sake whilst moving on the prize finds at huge profits (Wanyama, Forster) and phasing in the projects at the other end of the scale. Somewhere inbetween you have say the Ledleys, maybe even Hooper for one more year and so on.

But the overall picture now for us is one of just having ripped up a team that had an average age of 24 when, having done the hard part and built it, we beat Barca and reached the CL knockouts, to replace it with one where projects no longer compete with and augment first team regulars, but rough drafts compete with first team projects, at this rate. I'm not even judging any of the players involved right now even, point is it's hard to. But in terms of managing the whole process, it's a shocking mess.

Certain parallels with the decline from 08-10 are alarming as eff at the moment. Worst still smacks of the same people with the same high opinion of themselves getting it wrong twice - inbetween Lennon and his backroom were a key variable that bailed them out, and even they got the gig as a cheap option who outlived their usefulness the more independent-minded they became about the team
Edited by Jungle_G, 12 Aug 2014, 06:33 PM.
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The Green Lantern
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Considering retirement
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What's strange to me is that the Board pretend that they're running the business brilliantly but they've failed to implement some basic things. All businesses take calculated investment risks by weighing up what it'll cost versus the return on that investment. It doesn't matter if you're the guy who owns the local paper shop or if you're running Apple Mac, at some point you need to speculate to (at least try to) accumulate.

All the Board seem to be doing is accruing as much income as possible, driving down costs year-on-year and pretending it's not having a negative effect. Meanwhile the on-field performances are getting worse, the fans are losing interest and we risk losing CL income. In business terms, they've got a product that fewer customers want to buy, whilst risking jeopardising the business' most valuable revenue stream. Objectively, that's not a well-run business.
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Rieper's Toe
First team training
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Dewey
12 Aug 2014, 06:25 PM
Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Or you could just read the audited accounts to see where it went instead of posting libelous rubbish ?
Agree there is no need for conspiracy nonsense when the books are right there to see. :thumbsup:

But where do last year's profits go? Honest question. Are they distributed? Re-invested in non-football investments? They aren't re-invested in the playing squad! I have no clue.

What is clear is that profits are being had by transfer income, reducing player wages, and reduction of employees (50 fewer employees from 5 years ago). A real wonder considering ST and general attendance is way down over those 5 years.
From the accounts

Group Revenue increased by 47.7% to £75.82m
(2012: £51.34m)
Operating expenses increased by 15.2% to
£62.71m (2012: £54.44m)
Investment in football personnel of £9.66m
(2012: £5.24m)
Year end net cash at bank £3.76m
(2012: £2.77m net bank debt)
Exceptional costs of £1.83m (2012: £0.54m)
Profit before tax £9.74m (2012: £7.37m loss)


The club have cut the season book price by a £100 and we've paid down lots of historic debt, that's where the money has gone. There are three weeks left of the transfer window, if we've not made any significant signings by the end of it then criticism is justified. Being hysterical because we've had a few entirely predictable bad results is embarrassing. Taking of despair is embarrassing. I'm sure every other club in the league would swap for the 'terrible state' our club is in.
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Bertie Peacock
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The Little Ant
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The Green Lantern
12 Aug 2014, 06:32 PM
What's strange to me is that the Board pretend that they're running the business brilliantly but they've failed to implement some basic things. All businesses take calculated investment risks by weighing up what it'll cost versus the return on that investment. It doesn't matter if you're the guy who owns the local paper shop or if you're running Apple Mac, at some point you need to speculate to (at least try to) accumulate.

All the Board seem to be doing is accruing as much income as possible, driving down costs year-on-year and pretending it's not having a negative effect. Meanwhile the on-field performances are getting worse, the fans are losing interest and we risk losing CL income. In business terms, they've got a product that fewer customers want to buy, whilst risking jeopardising the business' most valuable revenue stream. Objectively, that's not a well-run business.
:thumbsup:
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Belgrano
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Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:40 PM
There are three weeks left of the transfer window, if we've not made any significant signings by the end of it then criticism is justified.
The problem is, everyone knows our entire season is defined by these initial few weeks, and Champions League qualification. It's not as though it's a huge shock for the board either, or they weren't expecting it. They've had, effectively, a year to plan for what sort of strengthening the first-team would require. And I'm sure they've had a year to prepare for the sale and profits from Forster (and probably Van Dijk who they'll try and sell next).
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:40 PM
Dewey
12 Aug 2014, 06:25 PM
Rieper's Toe
12 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Agree there is no need for conspiracy nonsense when the books are right there to see. :thumbsup:

But where do last year's profits go? Honest question. Are they distributed? Re-invested in non-football investments? They aren't re-invested in the playing squad! I have no clue.

What is clear is that profits are being had by transfer income, reducing player wages, and reduction of employees (50 fewer employees from 5 years ago). A real wonder considering ST and general attendance is way down over those 5 years.
From the accounts

Group Revenue increased by 47.7% to £75.82m
(2012: £51.34m)
Operating expenses increased by 15.2% to
£62.71m (2012: £54.44m)
Investment in football personnel of £9.66m
(2012: £5.24m)
Year end net cash at bank £3.76m
(2012: £2.77m net bank debt)
Exceptional costs of £1.83m (2012: £0.54m)
Profit before tax £9.74m (2012: £7.37m loss)


The club have cut the season book price by a £100 and we've paid down lots of historic debt, that's where the money has gone. There are three weeks left of the transfer window, if we've not made any significant signings by the end of it then criticism is justified. Being hysterical because we've had a few entirely predictable bad results is embarrassing. Taking of despair is embarrassing. I'm sure every other club in the league would swap for the 'terrible state' our club is in.
Waiting until after the Champions League qualifiers is absurd. If you are going to invest it should be with a view to chasing the Champions League money and recouping the outlay. In fact I'd argue that if we don't make the Champions League it would make more sense not to spend. Why spend money on winning a prize we will win in any case?
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sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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Bertie Peacock
12 Aug 2014, 06:46 PM
The Green Lantern
12 Aug 2014, 06:32 PM
What's strange to me is that the Board pretend that they're running the business brilliantly but they've failed to implement some basic things. All businesses take calculated investment risks by weighing up what it'll cost versus the return on that investment. It doesn't matter if you're the guy who owns the local paper shop or if you're running Apple Mac, at some point you need to speculate to (at least try to) accumulate.

All the Board seem to be doing is accruing as much income as possible, driving down costs year-on-year and pretending it's not having a negative effect. Meanwhile the on-field performances are getting worse, the fans are losing interest and we risk losing CL income. In business terms, they've got a product that fewer customers want to buy, whilst risking jeopardising the business' most valuable revenue stream. Objectively, that's not a well-run business.
:thumbsup:
In one :thumbsup:
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pauldg1
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A spray tanned Furby, eating KFC and screaming at a Gold Star family
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Is there something in the club's forecasts that they're saving up for? The next phases of the Celtic Way?
Edited by pauldg1, 12 Aug 2014, 06:52 PM.
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brianlara67
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Getting on a bit
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The Green Lantern
12 Aug 2014, 06:32 PM
What's strange to me is that the Board pretend that they're running the business brilliantly but they've failed to implement some basic things. All businesses take calculated investment risks by weighing up what it'll cost versus the return on that investment. It doesn't matter if you're the guy who owns the local paper shop or if you're running Apple Mac, at some point you need to speculate to (at least try to) accumulate.

All the Board seem to be doing is accruing as much income as possible, driving down costs year-on-year and pretending it's not having a negative effect. Meanwhile the on-field performances are getting worse, the fans are losing interest and we risk losing CL income. In business terms, they've got a product that fewer customers want to buy, whilst risking jeopardising the business' most valuable revenue stream. Objectively, that's not a well-run business.
What I cannot fathom out is what is the Board's long term business plan? The current model reeks of short termism. Flog all the main assets for as much money as possible and get the benefit of wiping out debt and getting a surplus at the bank. The problem is because we are not re-investing the assets are not being replaced and eventually there will be nothing left to sell. In the meantime they are pissing off their "customers" with this strategy and we are in a vicious cycle of downsizing the quality of the squad.

They are like a small business which has 3 shops and customers are dropping off and the banks are at he door. So they sell off one of the shops to a property developer and the bank is happy. Sales still fall so a year later they sell the second shop. Sales are still following. What do they do next?

But the guys who are on the Board are savvy businessmen aren't they? They know what they are going. Right?
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Luca
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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*sigh*
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herbert viola
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guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
A fictional detective may indeed wonder where all the money goes.

In the real world, people would look at the financial statements. Especially the cash flow statement, ya effing numbnut.
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Pussyfoot
À la mode if you will
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CaltonBhoy1967
12 Aug 2014, 06:29 PM
guinness07
12 Aug 2014, 06:10 PM
Right now. We're shipping money out of the club to God knows where. Its not spent on wages(the wage bill is coming down year after year) Its not spent on transfer fees(obviously) So, wheres the cash pile thats been accumulated this past few years gone? If it hasnt gone on any of above then you dont need to be Sherlock effing Holmes to see where your investigation needs to start AND end. Is DD using the club to keep the wolves from His door and paying PL handsomely to keep delivering? hmmm.
Hmm!!!!

Desmond is on Forbes list as having net worth of £2 billion plus - Celtic in a good year have a turnover of £60 million not profit - I think you may well be on to something? :hmmm:














:bawman:
I wish Lawwell had 2 billion behind him and not the de facto Owner of the club, we might actually get somewhere.. :angry:



...oh, wait a minute. :ponder:
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