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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,967 Views)
Quiet Assasin
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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They appointed a guy on the cheap, who even the press in Norway were shocked got the gig at Celtic. He had been linked with Malmo previously.

I wonder how much the CEO at Stromsgodset or Malmo would be paid.
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Wanyerma
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Considering retirement
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Lachie Mor
7 Aug 2014, 04:59 PM
kearnsy
7 Aug 2014, 04:08 PM
nakasboots
7 Aug 2014, 03:55 PM
Personally I don't think it's fair to question anyone on why they do/don't, can/can't, will/won't go to watch Celtic.

The various reasons will undoubtedly include financial/geographical/family/employment reasons.

In addition, there will be a fair few who decide not to pay to watch a substandard form of 'entertainment'.

If some people want tickets to see Celtic play Barca but turn down tickets to see Raith Rovers, who can blame them for 'gloryhunting'.

For example I don't go to the cinema very often but when I do, it's because there is something I would really like to watch, the same goes for watching live bands. No one questions why I'm not supporting Scottish cinema or Scottish music, they understand the right to pick and choose, and pay to see something you hope will be entertaining.

The reason to want to see Barca is two fold, you are paying to see a quality side with world famous stars, on the other hand if Celtic win, you've been to see your team defeat one of the greatest teams.

That's not to say you won't get an exciting game against Raith now and again but it's fairly obvious Barca are the bigger draw.

I've said before, people will always pick and choose which games to attend but if the product on the pitch was of a (much) higher standard, then the chances are fans would attend in higher numbers than they have been, and as expected, will be for the following season.

The actions of the board have created an apathy around Celtic that I've never seen in my time as a fan.

In the 80's we had teams of quality on the pitch.
The 90's we still attended because we felt the team could put an end to the huns run, and TB had a few world class players who anyone would pay to watch.
Mon's team was simply fantastic and we had a team packed with players who could play at the highest level.
Strachan had less quality but with Boruc, McDonald, JvH, McGeady and Naka we still had real quality when it mattered.
Lennons side achieved similar success but with the loss of our best striker in almost 10 years (Hooper), our best defensive mid in a long time (Vic) and with the money from Ki, McGeady, Vic and Hooper never really returned to the team then it's no wonder the fans are now turning away.

Make no mistake, this is down to the board failing to support and finance the management and therefore failing to show respect to the fans.

They will learn very quickly this year, that you reap what you sow.
to be fair the best reasoned post on this site today
when Tommy Burns came in it was enjoyable, we had the 3 amigos and there was a buzz about the place,
the soul is being sucked out of celtic and the product on the park is awful.
Kearnsy - I am not looking to argue with your sentiments - but when push to shove Tommy Burns' team won nothing apart from the cup in the first season. The 3 amigos + Andy Thom, Alan Stubbs, Phil O'Donnell et al did not deliver for all the excitement they gave us.

:(
Because our pals across the city were employing players they couldn't afford. Sadly the pre 2001 machinations of them re tax will never be addressed, but anyone who thinks they could afford the team they had then is on meths.
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InigoAtOttawa
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I often read that our ability to attract players is not about the transfer fee, but about the wages that more expensive players would command. The follow on is usually to suggest that we have a salary cap of around 25k/week. But, what is the logic in having an individual salary cap? Why wouldn't you have a team/squad salary cap? I'd like to see us move to a strategy where we could attract a spine of 4 or 5 players getting paid (for example) up to 40k, supported by a mixture of solid (predominately Scottish) professionals and prospects from the youth system. If you had Hooper, Vic, VVD (I'm not a fan, but you get the point) and Foster as your spine (and with those wages we may be able to attract better) and then supported them with guys like May, Armstrong, and the odd flyer (like Johannson) (probably making around 10-15k) and some of the better prospects from the youth system (making maybe 5-10k) then I think we'd a more exciting team to watch. The problem at the moment is that our journeymen are required to play too big a role. And our strategy for replacing them is about placing as many long odds bets as possible in the hope that we can get a big win, rather than betting on fewer shorter odds options and getting more, smaller wins (I know which gambler will prosper in the end). I can never get the sense in spending money on Balde, Pukki, Bangura and Griffiths (combined transfer fee and wages?) rather than on Finboggason (or someone similar). The advantages of having a good player are not just in his individual play, but the effect that his excellence has on the group - raising expectations and aspirations. Mass mediocrity, on the other had...

Obviously, you'd expect some churn in the playing staff, but no more (and maybe less) than now.
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Columbo's Cigar
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Wanyerma
7 Aug 2014, 05:30 PM
Lachie Mor
7 Aug 2014, 04:59 PM
kearnsy
7 Aug 2014, 04:08 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Kearnsy - I am not looking to argue with your sentiments - but when push to shove Tommy Burns' team won nothing apart from the cup in the first season. The 3 amigos + Andy Thom, Alan Stubbs, Phil O'Donnell et al did not deliver for all the excitement they gave us.

:(
Because our pals across the city were employing players they couldn't afford. Sadly the pre 2001 machinations of them re tax will never be addressed, but anyone who thinks they could afford the team they had then is on meths.
True but that team wasn't anywhere near as good as some would make out. Their yearly cl spankings will attest to that. They certainly never bought world beaters.
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Corky Buczek
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Lachie Mor
7 Aug 2014, 12:46 PM
I seem to recall similar threads after Artmedia and Ross County. One difference between this weeks rantings and the Ross Co. example is that the absolute villain of the piece then was one Georgios Samaras. In both cases the manager - in time - turned things around and we enjoyed a degree of success at home and in Europe.

I always felt when Deila was appointed that there were players in the squad who simply could not or would not accept the development model put forward by both Ronny and John Collins i.e. if you work harder at your profession then you might/will get better.

At this point in time we are seeing the truth of this and the stuff about 'players revolts' and 'murmurings' are testament to it. I hope that Celtic have the bottle to see this project through and that those who are incapable of accepting this philosophy are shipped out and willing replacements brought in.

As for Ewan Cameron and his ilk, they are loving our present difficulties and will do all that they can to foment discord amongst the support. I noted his comment at the end of his article:

'If Celtic had a superb youth model which offset such circumstances, there would be less of an issue. They don’t.'

I would ask when he last watched any Celtic Youth side in action. They may not be Barcelona but they are without doubt the best that Scotland has to offer and with proper coaching and a commitment to playing them as a matter of development and not simply because someone is injured or the opposition is less than stellar some of them may grow into players of stature.

Time will tell but the knee jerk reactions in this thread are pathetic.
Lachie

I'm not calling for the manager's head, he needs time. But do you really think he has been given enough support by the board ? Do you think that NL got enough support in last year's qualifying round.

Last night - as a result of one player being suspended - we had to put our first choice right back at centre half because we have no reserve centre backs.

Clearly there is a problem with the manager and Izzy but again no reserve left back.

We have no No.9 worth talking about since we decided that Hooper wasn't worth what he was asking for.

Victor Wanyama has not been replaced.

We will in all likelihood replace a very good goalkeeper with one who hasn't played competitively in two years

Lachie, the above is a shocking state of affairs and to go into a CL qualifier in that position is risible.

Peter Lawwell has been CEO at Celtic for far too long. This is now the umpteenth transfer window that he has made a dogs dinner of.

Clearly both the players and the manager deserve severe criticism after last night but there is nothing knee-jerk in saying that the club's current policies aren't working
Edited by Corky Buczek, 7 Aug 2014, 05:38 PM.
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murphio
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The worst part of all this is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to give a toss.
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nakasboots
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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murphio
7 Aug 2014, 05:37 PM
The worst part of all this is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to give a toss.
:thumbsup:


Apathycsc
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brogan
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as sure as night follows day this was goin to happen after the demiseof rangurs....no effective competition in our league lets apathy set in..wish that those who are wanting to take on the board would instead turn their ire on our biggest enemy...that for me is sky tv who are increasing the number of clubs who can outmuscle us in the finance dept.......dont bother telling me that we are financially stronger than legia btw........sky gtf
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Wee Ed KTF
Considering retirement
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nakasboots
7 Aug 2014, 05:39 PM
murphio
7 Aug 2014, 05:37 PM
The worst part of all this is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to give a toss.
:thumbsup:


Apathycsc
Yeah. Think it was pre-McCann when I last felt so disconnected and disillusioned with Celtic

Has Lawwell addressed the proletariat yet with soothing and comforting words of reassurance (otherwise known as lies, spin and bullshampoo)?
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Tubbytubthumper
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Time would appear to be running out for the men in charge.
Would send a huge message not only to the board but to Lawell and even the players if there was a mass walk out after the unfurling of the flag on flag day - make sure Fergus gets the welcome he deserves before standing en-mass outside the stadium for 90 minutes singing - would only work if it numbered in the multiple thousands to show fan power and the level of fans disgruntlement.
:carpark:
:pitchfork: :boxer:
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goalsgallagher
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Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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Wee Ed KTF
Considering retirement
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goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:11 PM
Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We spend the money that we DO have
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brnmcgn
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Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:11 PM
Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We spend the money that we DO have
No disagreement from me on that but I would suggest that we don't spend it wisely or most effective.

Our most important transfer window is the Winter window and we didn't use it.
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CELTBHOY1988
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Getting on a bit
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goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:11 PM
Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We won't get in the EPL. Ever.
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Wee Ed KTF
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brnmcgn
7 Aug 2014, 06:20 PM
Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:11 PM
Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We spend the money that we DO have
No disagreement from me on that but I would suggest that we don't spend it wisely or most effective.

Our most important transfer window is the Winter window and we didn't use it.
Our business strategy / transfer policy is a shambles.

I was responding to goalsgallacher and his 'prudence' / 'don't spend money we don't have' / 'careful now or we could go the way of Leeds / Rangers (IL)' (delete according to time period)

I was suggesting we actually spend what we have rather than spending sod all
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goalsgallagher
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brnmcgn
7 Aug 2014, 06:20 PM
Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM
goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:11 PM
Murphio just hit the nail on the head. I feel sympathy for the manager. He will not be backed by the board, just as they didnt back his predecessor. However, the board MUST be prudent. We need only glance across the city to see the repurcussions of not being so. So we are at a crossroads. We can't spend money we dont have, yet we need to in order to improve. Until we get into the EPL, this is a situation we will find ourselves in every 3 or 4 years.

It is a repeating cycle. Managers leave when they feel they have done as good a job as they can, usually when most of our better players are also gone. New man comes in, has poor players to work with, fans get restless. Expectations get lowered. We make a few low money signings who turn out to be decent. Team improves. Fans are relatively happy. Better players leave, manager follows. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We spend the money that we DO have
No disagreement from me on that but I would suggest that we don't spend it wisely or most effective.

Our most important transfer window is the Winter window and we didn't use it.


Im not disagreeing with anyone on here, but no one seems to be coming up with any real solutions to how we get out of this cycle.

Maybe what the board are doing is right. If we cant compete by spending wages and fees, then back someone who will take their time to build from within and with something that resembles "good football". Risky strategy, but at least its a strategy.
Edited by goalsgallagher, 7 Aug 2014, 06:28 PM.
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brnmcgn
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Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:25 PM
brnmcgn
7 Aug 2014, 06:20 PM
Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No disagreement from me on that but I would suggest that we don't spend it wisely or most effective.

Our most important transfer window is the Winter window and we didn't use it.
Our business strategy / transfer policy is a shambles.

I was responding to goalsgallacher and his 'prudence' / 'don't spend money we don't have' / 'careful now or we could go the way of Leeds / Rangers (IL)' (delete according to time period)

I was suggesting we actually spend what we have rather than spending sod all
:thumbsup:

That is the frustrating thing for me. We have this so called 'model, but it seems very much on the hoof to me. We could all guess that VVD may be subject to transfer speculation in December and also that we would not be offering Mouloko (Sp) a new deal due to injuries but no centre half bought/signed on a pre contract. So with one suspension we have to play our best RB at CH in our most important game of the whole season.

Their may be an argument (Incorrect IMO) that we would then be paying wages for a player 6 months before we need to but it is insignificant in terms of the costs of not making the CL. It is even more galling since we sold Ledley so any signing would have been on less money that he would have been on.

The same will end up being said about Forster, with the signing of Gordon just being done because he was available.

We get rid of our star players and I understand the reasoning behind this but FFS the board should show a bit of forethought and allow the manager to plan ahead.
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Lobey Dosser
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goalsgallagher
7 Aug 2014, 06:27 PM
brnmcgn
7 Aug 2014, 06:20 PM
Wee Ed KTF
7 Aug 2014, 06:15 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No disagreement from me on that but I would suggest that we don't spend it wisely or most effective.

Our most important transfer window is the Winter window and we didn't use it.


Im not disagreeing with anyone on here, but no one seems to be coming up with any real solutions to how we get out of this cycle.

Maybe what the board are doing is right. If we cant compete by spending wages and fees, then back someone who will take their time to build from within and with something that resembles "good football". Risky strategy, but at least its a strategy.
FFS Hope is not a strategy.
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One sharp cookie
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Getting on a bit
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murphio
7 Aug 2014, 05:37 PM
The worst part of all this is that it is becoming increasingly difficult to give a toss.
Correct. The league hadn't even started yet and already this season feels like a waste of time.
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Walter Sobchak
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NSSST NSSST NSSST
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We spent a heck of a lot of money in the past few years "reducing the debt". I'm not an expert but was it essential to clear that debt in such a short time scale ? I'd be stunned if it was.
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