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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,455 Views)
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Archibald P Treadwhistle
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12 Sep 2017, 11:26 AM
Post #11321
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Somewhere between madness and love
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- tomtheleedstim
- 12 Sep 2017, 11:09 AM
- culchie
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:53 AM
- OBK
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:37 AM
I dont care if we have to go it alone, hell it may even get us out of the shampoo hole that is Scottish football. Im not surprised that Hibs and Aberdeen have came out and admitted that they want no part in it, but the thought that not one other club will come forward worries me. Then again, as long as we pursue it to the best of our clubs abilities then I'm happy.
I wouldn't be too worried about any club supporting us. The allies we need are the fans of other clubs. I have said before that all our bloggers, fan sites, supporters clubs and associations with some of our legendry players, such as the great Tom Boyd, need to sit down and prepare our strategy and find areas of common ground from simple things like not buying Scotland merchandise or programmes at Scotland games and then progress it to possibly include no loans, press ban and all out boycott of all grounds and SFA sponsors. I am not, for now and with a bit of reflection, in favour of the more extreme measures, but I can be talked into it. By the way to those saying a boycott is a hun thing, you really need to do a bit of research. For my family it is very much part of our DNA. #landleaguecsc
Ourselves alone. Indeed, sir.
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danthestan
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12 Sep 2017, 11:56 AM
Post #11322
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- van Doesburg
- 12 Sep 2017, 09:54 AM
"Apart from one [club] I haven't had a single phone call, email or letter on this subject,": Stewart Regan quoted here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/41228081Think this needs to be remedied, but also think it would need an organised and concerted campaign to have any effect. Anyone aware of any plans afoot to encourage fans to pressure the SFA directly? Apart from the letter from the SPFL board Stewart? That represents how many clubs?
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blanco
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12 Sep 2017, 12:02 PM
Post #11323
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- Timdom come
- 12 Sep 2017, 11:21 AM
- timbojon
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:07 AM
- Torquemada
- 11 Sep 2017, 11:32 PM
Anyone old enough to remember the vituperation visited on Fergus and Celtic when it became clear he was going all in on the Cadete affair will recognise what is happening here. We have always been short of friends when facing up to injustice. But we always win, and we will win this one. Indeed, we already have. Regan and the clubs which have backed him against a review of the utter clusterfeck that is Scottish football governance already look ridiculous. No one with a three-digit IQ can possibly argue that moving on from unraked coals will resolve all that ails Scottish football. The SPFL has called for an independent review, FFS! Heads will roll, new clubs will be recognised as such, trophies will be stripped -- maybe not today or tomorrow but inevitably -- and Regan, Bryson and LNS will be joined by Petrie and Milne, probably Budge too, in the bad joke repository that already contains George Graham, Jim Farry and Harry Swan. Doing what is right always wins out in the end. And that is what we will do.  hell yeah !!!!! veteransacktheboarder cfc
Well said Torq. Celtic are strong enough, with our without the support of others. We don't need the assistance of Aberdeen, Hibs or anybody else. Peter Lawwell and the board didnt release that statement and those letters last week to meekly lie down and roll over because Regan and his cronies have said there won't be a review.
PL would have known exactly the way this was going to play out. There are far too many people involved in this corrupt mess for it to be investigated openly, with their consent and help.
I fully expect us to take this beyond the SFA now, whether that be to UEFA, CAS or legally via judicial review.
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Hairytoes
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12 Sep 2017, 12:08 PM
Post #11324
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Fantastic post there by Ffdiva. Truly excellent - Kudos!
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Lubo25
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12 Sep 2017, 12:09 PM
Post #11325
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- tocce 1973
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:28 AM
- OverAndOver
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:59 AM
- Ffdiva
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:13 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
x2 X3
or any month
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T_Bhoy
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12 Sep 2017, 12:23 PM
Post #11326
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- murphio
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:25 AM
Interesting Reagan says Sevco might, under the terms of the five way stitch up, be punished if it is found the Euro license was fraudulent. They will find them guilty and fine them 1 trillions dollars. they will then say that cant get the money since the old owners are in liquidation, but everyone should be happy as they were found guilty.
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T_Bhoy
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12 Sep 2017, 12:26 PM
Post #11327
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- Mickeybhoy84
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:42 AM
I'm hoping that all of the clubs who have been punished by the SFA for registration errors, no matter how minor, join forces and demand a full investigation into Rangers. You have one club who accidentally only dated a form once, when you require to date it twice. Human error and no intention to deceive. If it has been dated twice, then they player would have been registered. - Club thrown out of competition.
You then have a club who deliberately withheld contracts where they had to register them over a period of about a decade. They then tried everything to fight it when they were caught. Players were counted as registered, but just improperly so no punishment. Nothing to see here.
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T_Bhoy
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12 Sep 2017, 12:27 PM
Post #11328
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- qualitystreetkid
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:56 AM
- Willie Wonka
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:51 AM
- lenobhoy
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:45 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It was £500k iirc, so x2 what the hun got. Seem to remember some sfa gymnastics when the deid ones tapped up wattie too.
Not £100k? Was just over 100k. how many other clubs have been fined for poaching a manager?
e.g. how much were rangers fined from poaching the scotland manager during a campaign?
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CeltFromTheHills
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12 Sep 2017, 12:28 PM
Post #11329
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What is Celtic's next move then? I presume they will have their next move planned for the number of responses the SFA could have given.
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Wee Ed KTF
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12 Sep 2017, 12:31 PM
Post #11330
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- CeltFromTheHills
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:28 PM
What is Celtic's next move then? I presume they will have their next move planned for the number of responses the SFA could have given. I think we'll wait until after the SPFL board meeting (21st September ?) before we say anything publicly.
After all, it was the SPFL who requested a review and for the SFA to participate
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stevie21
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12 Sep 2017, 12:31 PM
Post #11331
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Poster of the Tuesday afternoon!
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This might sound like I'm asking the same question twice, but if the SFA etc. just keep refusing to look into this, is there a way of going over their heads? My last post on this asked what outcome people expect, and I expect it to be brushed under the carpet if the SFA can get away with doing so. Is there a way of pushing this into the Court of Arbitration for Sport or something similar?
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rightsaidted
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12 Sep 2017, 12:40 PM
Post #11332
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- Ffdiva
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:13 AM
- ProvansSocks
- 11 Sep 2017, 09:51 PM
- Hoops For Me All The Way
- 11 Sep 2017, 09:12 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
No need to apologise and no one else is behind what I post. I haven't explained myself too well but it really doesn't take the sharpest! Would we win on our own? Would we weaken ourselves in the process?
So you feel we should back off from taking the corrupt to task on this, on account of the cowardice of the chairmen of other clubs ? Do you know what the definition of character is? Doing the right thing when nobody's looking. We're doing the right thing.We have smart people at our club and among our support. We have right on our side, there is overwhelming evidence of malfeasance. We were cheated, we were lied to, we lost income, we lost prestige, we lost leagues and cups that we should have won, we lost good players, we lost access to the CL, we had to " know our place " when we were ridiculed by Sir  tenners for fivers, and by those excuses for journalists still churning out their Sevco PR We were told we were paranoid, our kids came home devastated at coming so close, but ultimately losing to a financially doped, hubristic shower of cheats. Oh and just to crown it all, once the cheats were rumbled, those tasked with implementing the rules, ignored and bent the rules to facilitate the cheats, to more or less carry on as normal, even to the extent of declaring them the same club. Yeah, let's back off because it's going to be difficult. Eff that. Spiers, or someone of that ilk, said a while back, "If you want to know what is really going on regarding Rangers/Newco, go to a Celtic fans website."
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Lubo25
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12 Sep 2017, 12:41 PM
Post #11333
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- stevie21
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:31 PM
This might sound like I'm asking the same question twice, but if the SFA etc. just keep refusing to look into this, is there a way of going over their heads? My last post on this asked what outcome people expect, and I expect it to be brushed under the carpet if the SFA can get away with doing so. Is there a way of pushing this into the Court of Arbitration for Sport or something similar? I think this is where a judicial review comes in
if that goes ahead and the result comes back that the SFA/SPL deliberately misled member clubs and deliberately bent/broke their own rules to save the Huns and they then refuse to admit/acknowledge/do anything, the next logical step would be CAS
ready to stand corrected
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echo
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12 Sep 2017, 12:43 PM
Post #11334
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Heart Of Saturday Afternoon
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- T_Bhoy
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:23 PM
- murphio
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:25 AM
Interesting Reagan says Sevco might, under the terms of the five way stitch up, be punished if it is found the Euro license was fraudulent.
They will find them guilty and fine them 1 trillions dollars. they will then say that cant get the money since the old owners are in liquidation, but everyone should be happy as they were found guilty. Sevco agreed to pay any footballing debts as part of the 5 way agreement did they not? 1 trillion dollars did you say?
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Torquemada
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12 Sep 2017, 12:57 PM
Post #11335
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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- weebaldy
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:23 AM
- timbojon
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:07 AM
- Torquemada
- 11 Sep 2017, 11:32 PM
Anyone old enough to remember the vituperation visited on Fergus and Celtic when it became clear he was going all in on the Cadete affair will recognise what is happening here. We have always been short of friends when facing up to injustice. But we always win, and we will win this one. Indeed, we already have. Regan and the clubs which have backed him against a review of the utter clusterfeck that is Scottish football governance already look ridiculous. No one with a three-digit IQ can possibly argue that moving on from unraked coals will resolve all that ails Scottish football. The SPFL has called for an independent review, FFS! Heads will roll, new clubs will be recognised as such, trophies will be stripped -- maybe not today or tomorrow but inevitably -- and Regan, Bryson and LNS will be joined by Petrie and Milne, probably Budge too, in the bad joke repository that already contains George Graham, Jim Farry and Harry Swan. Doing what is right always wins out in the end. And that is what we will do.  hell yeah !!!!! veteransacktheboarder cfc
Yep, unlike the Kelly regime, the bunnett wasn't afraid to take on those cheating carrots at the SFA  The wee man should have a statue for what he did for our club Very unfair to Bob Kelly. He faced down the bigoted bastards over the flag issue in 1952, when they tried to push us out of Scottish football unless we capitulated. Having won that battle, he waited a few years and then nailed Sir George Graham on a ticket scam in much the way that Fergus nailed Farry. Exclude Bob Kelly, who had his faults admittedly, from the calumny deservedly heaped on the Kelly trough snouts who followed him.
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Luigi
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12 Sep 2017, 01:02 PM
Post #11336
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- puroresu_boy
- 11 Sep 2017, 03:15 PM
Remember Regan was the one pushing for Sevco to be planted into Div 1.
"We cant punish 41 clubs for the mismanagement of one" is what he said. He should of been removed from office then!!! Should have, not should of.
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Harris Tottle
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12 Sep 2017, 01:02 PM
Post #11337
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I've said it elsewhere on this forum, even if we can step aside from the cheating issue, the real stinker here is one of governance.
Reagan yesterday made the frankly absurd statement that EBT Ogilvie "excused himself" when these matters were discussed. Really, Stu? So, to be clear, you have Messrs Ogilvie and Dickson, both of them neck deep in this, both strangely forgetful in the witness box, and the best you can come up with is "we didn't speak about it in front of honest Campbell". I'd have thought you'd have both gentlemen in a room for a solid grilling followed by a resignation statement. For all else we are asked to stomach, the continued presence of EBT recipients, both in the SFA and as media commentators (and bizarrely people who are never asked about their EBTs), really is a further kick in the stones.
The SFA has regulary and consistently bent the narrative, I am sure inspired by the notion that the ba' is burst in Scottish football unless Rangers are there. In that attitude, that "too big to fail" nonsense that pollutes the business world, you essentially give the opportunistic every chance to extract the urine. I don't even need to go back raking over the coals of the SFA's shabby history that includes tolerating sectarian signing policies, trying to ban the Irish Flag, ridiculous non selection of players like Jinky, the Cadete affair, Jim Farry etc. In the last 5 years, the SFA, cos its ra Gers, have passed solid gold individuals like Whyte, Green and King as fit and proper. Even better, the likes of King, Johnson and Potless Murray had ringside seats when Minty was essentially running/ruining Scottish football. The idea that "lessons have been learned" is frankly ridiculous. No matter what the Govan club does, no matter how many confrontational and bile filled statements are made by Club 1690, guys like Reagan are hard wired into the notion that no Rangers equates to some form of social and economic calamity on the game.
The acid test of how much has changed is what happens when Sevco falls over. I think we all know how that movie will play out.
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mcgeady
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12 Sep 2017, 01:07 PM
Post #11338
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If this issue involved Hamilton illegally using EBTs to have a squad that kept them in the top division while Dundee Utd, Hibs, Hearts etc all found themselves relegated in the last five years, you can bet your house that all 108 clubs, or whatever number Regan used, would rightly insist on an inquiry into how this was allowed to occur.
This is pure fear from most of the people involved in the decision making of these clubs of incurring the fury of Rangers fans. The threats & intimidation prevent them being treated the same way all other clubs would be treated.
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Balham_Tic
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12 Sep 2017, 01:07 PM
Post #11339
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- T_Bhoy
- 12 Sep 2017, 12:26 PM
- Mickeybhoy84
- 12 Sep 2017, 08:42 AM
I'm hoping that all of the clubs who have been punished by the SFA for registration errors, no matter how minor, join forces and demand a full investigation into Rangers.
You have one club who accidentally only dated a form once, when you require to date it twice. Human error and no intention to deceive. If it has been dated twice, then they player would have been registered. - Club thrown out of competition. You then have a club who deliberately withheld contracts where they had to register them over a period of about a decade. They then tried everything to fight it when they were caught. Players were counted as registered, but just improperly so no punishment. Nothing to see here. This is it for me. We have them bang to rights. We have them guilty, plus we have precedence of registration being (rightly) harshly punished.
We have them by the balls if we push it all the way, legally. And they know it; that explains the orchestrated PR slinging from their side this week.
We go all in, throw some money at it, we'll bury them.
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Fortune Teller
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12 Sep 2017, 01:13 PM
Post #11340
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Link
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The Rangers row threatening to drown out all else in Scottish football
A silent majority no longer care about the Rangers affair but dare to suggest this topic has little relevance in 2017 and you are accused of being part of the problem
Ewan Murray
@mrewanmurray
Tuesday 12 September 2017 12.51 BST
If the Scottish Football Association is anxious regarding the latest, stinging criticism of its governance then such fear is well hidden. By close of business on another of Scottish football’s manic Mondays, focus had firmly shifted towards another of the game’s legislators.
The SFA’s chief executive, Stewart Regan, met the media in reply to an insistence from the Scottish Professional Football League that a “fully independent review” must be held to investigate football governance issues surrounding the 2012 liquidation of Rangers and the club’s use of Employee Benefit Trusts.
The issue has gained significant public traction as letters from Celtic’s chief executive, Peter Lawwell, urging the SFA to agree to such a review, entered the public domain. The undertone is that Scottish football’s ruling body was at best negligent as the Rangers saga played out.
Regan is adamant no such project need be undertaken. He looks and sounds comfortable with his position. The EBT scenario flew back into public consciousness as a supreme court judgment assessed that tax was payable by those Rangers players and officials who earned via the scheme between 2001 and 2010. Regan believes any review would be pointless and that those with a grievance relating to the SFA’s handling of all things Rangers will never be placated.
“Since 2011 the board have relied heavily on advice from four QCs and three law lords, supporting us on that journey,” said Regan of legislative steps and punishments implemented in relation to Rangers. “We also have two independent directors on our board. Independence has been at the heart of everything we have done.
“I think it would be really difficult to convince those who believe in conspiracies that there isn’t a conspiracy at play. My pushback to them is do we really think that four QCs, three law lords, all the club execs, all the independent panel members are all part of some huge conspiracy?
“We have to be able to move on. We won’t get closure in the eyes of some parts of Scottish football – some fans, some stakeholders – we won’t ever get closure. This will be one of those topics that will be talked about for years and years to come. There isn’t a right or a wrong answer; it’s a judgment call and a group of guys around the boardroom table with independent legal scrutiny have come to the conclusion that this is where we draw a line.”
The SFA has, it must be noted, opted to take a closer look at the award of a European licence to Rangers in 2011 after information was revealed during the trial of the club’s former owner Craig Whyte. If it is proven that Rangers misled the SFA in an attempt to earn that Champions League qualifying place, the sanction should be serious. Should, though, is the operative term; the SFA did not even have it within its power to penalise clubs for a mass on-field riot at the conclusion of the 2016 Scottish Cup final.
Lawwell finds himself in an invidious position. A noisy element of the Celtic support refuse to let the issue of Rangers and their demise go away. That group, naturally, would be seriously disappointed if the chief executive of their own club refused to fight on their behalf. If Lawwell believes an investigation is now his best hope of delivering something tangible, his attitude is understandable. He can at the very least say he tried.
“I have a lot of respect for Peter Lawwell,” Regan said. “I was with him at the Champions League draw a couple of weeks ago and we have a very good relationship. I’d do exactly the same in his position – he is looking out for the best interests of Celtic Football Club.”
The notion that fans across Scotland remain enraged by Rangers’ antics and by the approach of officialdom towards that issue is continually overplayed. The reality, one people refuse to accept, is that a silent majority of those who attend matches week on week no longer care about this affair. They grew tired of it long ago, after chuckling as Rangers played domestic fixtures at Albion Rovers and Cowdenbeath. But dare to suggest this topic has little relevance in 2017 and you are accused of being part of the problem.
Rangers’ current fury is towards the SPFL’s chief executive, Neil Doncaster, who penned a letter to the SFA under the title: “Independent review of use of tax avoidance schemes at Rangers FC and actions of Scottish football authorities.”
The Ibrox club are adamant the SPFL board, upon which their managing director Stewart Robertson sits, agreed to undertake no such thing. A process of how circumstances even remotely similar to 2012 would be handled in future, yes, but not essentially another investigation into the EBT years. Semantics, perhaps, but important ones.
The SPFL’s 42 members were referenced in Lawwell’s correspondence; the 42 are also members of the SFA. Aberdeen’s chairman, Stewart Milne, has been consistently vocal with his belief that reviews would do more harm than good. Billy Bowie, Kilmarnock’s majority shareholder, has offered the same message.
“We haven’t had a single email, phone call or letter – other than from Celtic – asking us to have a look at this,” added Regan. “I thought it would be worthwhile to go back out and ask our members: ‘Are you sure … is there anything you want looked at?’ I told them the rationale to our decision in a letter last week. I haven’t had a single response asking for clarification.”
Hibernian’s chairman, Rod Petrie, is also a vice-president of the SFA, which is perhaps pertinent in respect of their statement distancing themselves from the SPFL’s stance by Monday evening. That said, the basic notion of “independence” in the context of an inquiry is arguably undermined by Regan and Petrie – such prominent SFA figures – being in position to veto.
Suddenly, Doncaster’s letter looked a curious piece of work. Why on earth did the SPFL’s chief executive pen it when member clubs, and prominent ones at that, would be immediately willing to take an alternative stance? In a statement on Monday evening the SPFL pointed only to its board approving the call for an inquiry. For such an important issue, surely all 42 clubs should have been consulted to avoid what has regressed into a public relations disaster.
The SPFL itself did not reply to a direct question as to how many clubs actually support a call for a fully independent review. And yet, it seems at best bizarre that Doncaster would approach the SFA without sufficient backing. Perhaps, given Celtic’s size and status, they have every right to push on their own. By very definition, they were the club most affected by Rangers’ EBT use. Maybe Doncaster was seeking to put the focus on the SFA when, in reality, the consequence has been altogether different.
On Tuesday evening Celtic will host Paris Saint-Germain against the inevitable backdrop of an almighty din. It is a noise matched elsewhere.
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