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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,515 Views)
jbj712
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FergusMcGrain
8 Aug 2017, 01:35 PM
This was tweeted, originally from Darkfish..,

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGsToHHXYAA2TXh.jpg
For those of us not in the know, is this "darkfish" chap a stand up guy as our American cousin would say or is he prone to flights of fancy?
I'm always afraid of reading in to things what you want to see rather than the reality of what's there!
Not trying to disrespect the guy at all!
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Carnanreagh
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I wonder if the SFA see this as a way of satisfying fans desire for justice to be done. "Ach just give them one (the one that hurt the most) and they'll forget about all this EBT nonsense".

I'm not sure it would work but then again the SFA aren't the most competent bunch.
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murphio
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Jimbo Jones
8 Aug 2017, 02:20 PM
I can't believe there will be any new evidence being uncovered of that match being fixed all these years later - the likes of Calderwood & Nichol wouldn't have needed documentation to not be motivated to win the game (especially when you see some of the players in their ranks that day), it would all have been a nod and a wink stuff and probably similar telephone conversations to the one that Calderwood spilled the beans on about Murray being responsible for him getting the Dunfermline job.

For what it's worth, I don't believe Calderwood or Nichol would have been explicit in telling the players to lose the game - they're not that daft. I just think they were likely extremely lax in preparation and wouldn't exactly have the players geared up to winning it plus were tactically not exactly tight which would have gotten got through to the players. Is that fixing a match? Possibly, but almost impossible to prove.
The club in question wasn't mentioned on the podcast or the CQN Magazine piece; but it is obviously Dunfermline. If it has nothing to do with match fixing then is it possible it points to some kind of dual ownership since it was Murray who appointed Jimmy Calderwood at the Pars?
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murphio
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For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
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Quiet Assasin
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murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
That isn't anything CQN acquired themselves. Calderwood said it on Radio Scotland.
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murphio
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Quiet Assasin
8 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
That isn't anything CQN acquired themselves. Calderwood said it on Radio Scotland.
I know that. The article doesn't specify the 'taped interviews' were acquired by them.
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SaMule
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The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
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murphio
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SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Someone from CQN apparantly at the heart of this has dismissed the match fixing angle. If It's not that and yet it is obviously Dunfermlime then it must be the Murray/Masterson/Calderwood/Charlotte18 angle or something very close.
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tarrant
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murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
Imperfectly owned, dontcha know.

Long time ago, didnt know about it at the time, can't do anything about it now, both teams eventually went into administration, they've suffered enough, we (ie, you) need to move on.

:nono:

Let's do these carrots, throw it all out in the open and up in the air, see who and what comes out the other end. I'm sick of standing by the river waiting for bodies.

:boxer:
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SaMule
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murphio
8 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Someone from CQN apparantly at the heart of this has dismissed the match fixing angle. If It's not that and yet it is obviously Dunfermlime then it must be the Murray/Masterson/Calderwood/Charlotte18 angle or something very close.
Now that would make much more sense :thumbsup:

No doubt if anything does come out Dunfermline will be the ones to take all the flak.
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Jimbo Jones
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murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
The Calderwood & Murray thing isn't new news though given the Off the Ball interview so there must be something else - maybe there is the evidence to say Murray was way too involved in Dunfermline. Whilst that is clearly in breach of rules, I'm not sure what they can do retrospectively other than ban Murray from being involved in football again?
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Quiet Assasin
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murphio
8 Aug 2017, 03:05 PM
Quiet Assasin
8 Aug 2017, 03:01 PM
murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
That isn't anything CQN acquired themselves. Calderwood said it on Radio Scotland.
I know that. The article doesn't specify the 'taped interviews' were acquired by them.
Au right. I picked up wrong. I thought it was implying some kind of secrecy about the admission when he'd said on national radio.
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murphio
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tarrant
8 Aug 2017, 03:14 PM
murphio
8 Aug 2017, 02:50 PM
For clarification; having dual ownership or direct/ indirect interest in more than one member club broke article 13 of SFA rules. This would tally with CQN's 'taped interviews' evidence from Calderwood which claimed Murray installed him at Dunfermline while still in charge at Rangers. Was Masterson a front man for Murray at another SPL club?
Imperfectly owned, dontcha know.
:lol:
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jbj712
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SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:17 PM
murphio
8 Aug 2017, 03:11 PM
SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Someone from CQN apparantly at the heart of this has dismissed the match fixing angle. If It's not that and yet it is obviously Dunfermlime then it must be the Murray/Masterson/Calderwood/Charlotte18 angle or something very close.
Now that would make much more sense :thumbsup:

No doubt if anything does come out Dunfermline will be the ones to take all the flak.
Someone somewhere on etims mentioned going through old stuff from an east coast club that was in danger of going under at one time. That might be the Pars. Could it be that there might be an invoice for say a holiday trip for the team and management that was forwarded for payment to another club/company/chairman?
Is not match fixing but it would be hard to explain!
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legal_man
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SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Is this the case? I'm reasonably sure that in the event of teams being level on points in 2003 they were separated on goal difference, then goals scored, rather than on head-to-head record.

If it had stayed 5-1 to them and 4-0 to us the teams would have been level on goal difference, but they would have been ahead on goals scored. So their penalty put it beyond doubt, but it didn't win them the title in itself. (But happy to stand corrected.)

Anyway, as you say without the smoking gun it's difficult to prove. For example: we managed to put 4 goals past ex-Celtic keeper Gordon Marshall at Kilmarnock. How bothered was he?
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murphio
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legal_man
8 Aug 2017, 03:26 PM
SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Is this the case? I'm reasonably sure that in the event of teams being level on points in 2003 they were separated on goal difference, then goals scored, rather than on head-to-head record.

If it had stayed 5-1 to them and 4-0 to us the teams would have been level on goal difference, but they would have been ahead on goals scored. So their penalty put it beyond doubt, but it didn't win them the title in itself. (But happy to stand corrected.)

Anyway, as you say without the smoking gun it's difficult to prove. For example: we managed to put 4 goals past ex-Celtic keeper Gordon Marshall at Kilmarnock. How bothered was he?
Plenty the big Hun buffoon with the amount of time wasting he done. :nono:
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Willie Wonka
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legal_man
8 Aug 2017, 03:26 PM
SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Is this the case? I'm reasonably sure that in the event of teams being level on points in 2003 they were separated on goal difference, then goals scored, rather than on head-to-head record.

If it had stayed 5-1 to them and 4-0 to us the teams would have been level on goal difference, but they would have been ahead on goals scored. So their penalty put it beyond doubt, but it didn't win them the title in itself. (But happy to stand corrected.)

Anyway, as you say without the smoking gun it's difficult to prove. For example: we managed to put 4 goals past ex-Celtic keeper Gordon Marshall at Kilmarnock. How bothered was he?
quite a bit IIRC
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SaMule
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legal_man
8 Aug 2017, 03:26 PM
SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
Is this the case? I'm reasonably sure that in the event of teams being level on points in 2003 they were separated on goal difference, then goals scored, rather than on head-to-head record.

If it had stayed 5-1 to them and 4-0 to us the teams would have been level on goal difference, but they would have been ahead on goals scored. So their penalty put it beyond doubt, but it didn't win them the title in itself. (But happy to stand corrected.)

Anyway, as you say without the smoking gun it's difficult to prove. For example: we managed to put 4 goals past ex-Celtic keeper Gordon Marshall at Kilmarnock. How bothered was he?
I'm happy to be corrected - I always remembered it as us being equal in goals scored as well, but as with the timing of the penalty that may well be the bitterness talking :lol:

NB Gordon Marshall never gave any impression of wanting Celtic to win when he played for us, so I'm not convinced that he'd be too bothered about us losing the league :ph43r:
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Broadly Equivalent Bhoy
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SaMule
8 Aug 2017, 03:07 PM
The huns won the league that day in 2003 when they were awarded a penalty deep into injury time*. We'd have won otherwise due to a better head to head record, so they really needed that last minute goal. They'd gone over half an hour without scoring a sixth, so if the Pars were really at it they could have given one away long before that. While I've got no problem believing that Tango & Sash were as happy as anyone in Ibrox at the result that day, it would be difficult to fix it to end that way without the collusion of at least the Pars player who gave away the penalty and maybe also the referee. I'm not sure who the player was (and I'm effed if I'm watching the highlights on YouTube just to find out :lol: ) but the ref was Stuart Dougal.

In short, if that game was rigged then it was rigged in an unnecessarily complex way, and as I wouldn't credit any of those involved with having the intelligence to plan all of it, I'm sceptical. I wouldn't be shocked if it were true, far from it - I've watched Scottish football long enough to know better than that. It just seems like a standard case of hun favouritism to me though, rather than anything more unusually devious.


*I always remember it as being 7 minutes into 4 minutes of added time :suspect:
I think they would have won it without the penalty, that was just an insurance policy.

Without the penalty the goal difference would have been level and they would have won it because they had scored more goals

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Wailer
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CQN Magazine‏ @CQNMagazine 21h21 hours ago
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For those following our 'Developing Story' conversation, as expected it developed further this afternoon and we should update on CQN later.
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