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| The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM | |
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| Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,415,021 Views) | |
| beer_goggler1888 | 16 Jul 2014, 05:56 PM Post #81 |
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Harp Lager ICE cold
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No your theory resembles fabled CelticQuicknews view. The Old generation of domination pish. The Fletcher theory is indeed a sound one. Money rested in the bank and we lost a title and Champions league qualification subsequently. Our profit is exactly that. Profit. It's there for the reinvestment into the side not resting in an account. The old huns/leeds utd scare stories are a load of shampoo regarding our board and our fans and combined we're not that stupid. Spending within our means is indeed that. If we fail in the Champions league with £10mill+ resting in our bank I'll regard that as total and utter failure. If we Qualify and dont' spend to improve for to compete at the higher level then that's total failure also. Gambling on raw footballers year in year out is going to equal failure and cost us more in the long run. A proper mix has to be attained. Now and again we're going to have to push out the boat for quality. Over the past 5 years we've no big name players nor massive outlays , no real stars in our team no real players to excite fans or even he younger generation. The number 7 jersey looks to have been retired. Looking out my window as I type people in the park wearing football jerseys plenty have names on the back , Rooney and Van Persie Man.Utd , Gerrard Liverpool , couple of Messi Barca jerseys , point is there's multiple Celtic jerseys , more than the other sides on view yet not one has a player name upon it. Are we that bland these days? We're a bland footballing brand in dire need of investment. Edited by beer_goggler1888, 16 Jul 2014, 05:58 PM.
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| Tim Waits | 16 Jul 2014, 06:03 PM Post #82 |
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Small-Minded Bien-Pensant
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Also known as "The Unbearable Lightness of Mo Bangura." |
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| Neil Jung | 16 Jul 2014, 06:04 PM Post #83 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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If you have faith in your scout to buy five £2 million players over a course of time you should also have faith in him to identify a player that would cost 50-100% more. We don't follow accountants. The game isn't played on sheets of paper and the financial results binder isnt the league trophy. While I do not advocate a wreckless financial splurge I do think we can and should alter our business plan. Otherwise we will lose money from elsewhere not just our failed signings whether that is one player or ten. As for playing in Scotland. Players play for money. Give them the right deal and they will come. There are players in our squad that don't deserve to be making a living out of the game at our club. They'll be on good wages. There have been guys at our club who's been on good wages who have got nowhere near the first team. These players haven't been big name signings but have been a drain none the less. Celtic can attract players. Its when they get talking about wages is when things fall apart. |
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| Mubo Loravcik | 16 Jul 2014, 06:06 PM Post #84 |
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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I don't recall anyone saying signing player x would guarantee Last 16 qualification or anything like that. It just gives you a much better chance, and regardless will at least comfort the fans that we aren't downsizing. And using examples like the lunacy of the English market, while correct, is irrelevant because what we ask is shopping the unfashionable leagues in Central and Eastern Europe. With the right scouting, we could easily pick up a Jelavic or Finnbogason type. But we should just settle for Stokes and Griffiths without fuss? Dearie me. |
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| reven | 16 Jul 2014, 06:22 PM Post #85 |
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Getting noticed in the reserves
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We should be employing the best coaches we can and spending any profit on the best Scottish talent. Guys like Mccarthy and gauld. |
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| nakasboots | 16 Jul 2014, 06:25 PM Post #86 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Agree with Beergoggler and Mubo. We are on the long slow road to anonymity (in a European sense) if we persist with the standard of players we have at the moment. Plenty of decent pro's, who in Scotland should be the top performers, take them on a plane somewhere and they don't quite match up the standard of opposition. (Reykjavik and other minnows aside) We should be more daring in our scouting and look again at the far East, the US and Eastern Europe to start bringing in lads who are making their names at under 19/20 level. (Don't ask me for a list, I dont play FM) It would be no more harmful than splashing £1/2m here and there on Bangura, Balde and Pukki types. Vic and VVD are good examples of our buying policy working well and although I understand every player to a degree is a risk, I sometimes think our policy of keeping our buys under £1.5/2M means that the Finnbogasson types will continue to pass us by. |
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| qualitystreetkid | 16 Jul 2014, 06:37 PM Post #87 |
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Thank you, bye-bye for calling
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The club is run pretty well - although I agree with the 'penny wise . . .' comments. PL needs to do a lot more to earn that wage . . . I stood for minutes waiting on my ST and nary a cup of tea was proffered, and he sure as eff wasn't busy out hunting for strikers. Punt. |
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| Marado | 16 Jul 2014, 07:28 PM Post #88 |
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I'll give you a war you won't believe.
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We are seriously downsizing at a scary rate. I know we cannot spend money we don't have but something needs to be done to people losing interest and us heading into European obscurity like the rest of Scottish football. |
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| Rieper's Toe | 16 Jul 2014, 07:43 PM Post #89 |
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First team training
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The problem with signing guys for 4-5 mill instead of 1-2 is we can afford less of them which greatly increases the risk to the club, particularly as their wage demands will be higher as well. No matter how good your scouts are some players will just not work out, so you sell a wanyama and have no replacement and are stuck with someone you can't shift because no other teams will meet his wage demands. We used to sign fewer more expensive players and we lost money , lots of it. We're not losing money hand over fist any more and we are winning the league at a canter and still ( hopefully ) qualifying for the champions league. Even signing a couple of 10M players would give us no realistic chance of going any further than the last 16. So why waste the money ?
We can't afford that any more. We used to have the 6th biggest wage bill in the UK, we're less than most championship teams now because of the sky money. Players who are motivated by money will just sit on QPR's bench for 5 times what we can afford. Puki's fee was reported at 2-3 million not 1/2 a million. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2407808/Celtic-complete-signing-Finnish-striker-Teemu-Pukki-3m-deal-Schalke.html |
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| OptimusCheese | 16 Jul 2014, 07:50 PM Post #90 |
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Tell my mother that I never wrote a whack jam.
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Nobody has ever used the word 'guarantee'. You've just made that up. |
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| Neil Jung | 16 Jul 2014, 07:52 PM Post #91 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Nobody is advocating spending £10 million on a player or two to take us to the next level in Europe. They are advocating to concentrate a little more on quality rather than quantity. You might think walking the league with Stokes and Griffiths up front and Mulgrew in midfield is entertaining but a lot of others don't. The club has treated the support as customers and a decent percentage of the support will act like that. If they aren't given a reason to spend cash on the team they won't. There is a middle ground, jeez the club don't even need to find the middle ground, the policy just needs a tweek here and there. If it stays the same as is then the wages of those running the club need to be adjusted to suit the market we are in. |
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| Corky Buczek | 16 Jul 2014, 07:57 PM Post #92 |
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Trolololo
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Utter nonsense. Which CEO's of other football clubs get paid glorified testimonials for just hanging around to do the job. - stop kidding yourself on it was anything other than that - the Swiss Rambler (a very good football/finance blogger) pointed it out a year before it got paid. Which other major football club have the CEO as the highest (as he could well have been in that season) or amongst the highest earners at the club ? Lawwell is grossly overpaid. |
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| Neil Jung | 16 Jul 2014, 07:59 PM Post #93 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Im not a Peter Lawwell hater, in fact I think he's done a good job on the whole, but he is on a wage that he wouldn't get elsewhere. It is higher than a lot of his contemporaries get at BPL clubs and they already earn far more than their equivalents do at non footballing companies with similar turnovers. Why can we afford to pay him top dollar but take punts on managers and players and no doubt scrimp when it comes to our youth coaches and sports scientists etc. |
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| Jungle_G | 16 Jul 2014, 08:10 PM Post #94 |
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Considering retirement
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I'm not too down on things right now cos I've ranted and raved in the past only to more often than not discover within a season or two that I was most likely full of shampooe. There was the Mowbray nadir for instance, immediately followed by a gradual improvement and capped by an excellent 125th anniversary season. But what I will say is that if you take say the last five years as a whole then we've hit a spectacular low once (09-10), punched above our weight and had an excellent European run once (12-13) and spent the rest of the time on or around the level I think most of us are entitled to expect in any event. Whilst that is a long way from wailing and gnashing territory, equally it's a long way off acclaiming the CEO as some sort of indispensable fulcrum we absolutely must pay top dollar to retain. Especially at a time when it doesn't take much to prompt a reminder of the apparent folly of "risking" top dollar outlays on even one or two members of the playing squad, or heaven forbid, the manager. |
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| Garavogue | 16 Jul 2014, 08:12 PM Post #95 |
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First team training
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We've been the dominant club in Scotland for years. We've arguably also been the best run club in Scotland for ages too. We lost trophies and titles and money to cheating - pure and simple. The authorities skewed the league in favour of a club that eventually died trying to compete with us. Despite the honest mistakes and Euro license jiggery pokery - they still couldn't compete fairly. That tells me, that whilst we are not run perfectly, we're run rather well. I also feel that the appointment of RD could usher in a whole new homegrown sunbeam of success for us. However I'd like the board to invest in one of them hover pitches wot was all the rage a few years back. |
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| kingbhoyd | 16 Jul 2014, 08:28 PM Post #96 |
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First-team captain
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Doesn't matter how many times you say it an ltip isn't a glorified testimonial, it's a standard part of a CEO contract and many directors contracts. Eric Riley had one as well. I hope your beef isn't with him on this, he doesn't decide what goes into his contract, you need to start a thread on the remuneration committee if you really want to rant about it. Make sure you look up Swiss ramblers thoughts on it first though, eh. |
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| dweezilfc | 16 Jul 2014, 08:39 PM Post #97 |
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First name on the team-sheet
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The boards medium term strategy could be conjectured, thus: Spend the minimum possible on the football side and hope for the best. Sometime soon, the dead huns will re-emerge (phoenix like) into our division and spark some kinda interest. We, will then start playing the ten-in-a-row-card . Attendances will grow the closer we get, and, If we have to, we will purchase expensive has-beens in order to realise the fans dreams
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| Corky Buczek | 16 Jul 2014, 08:59 PM Post #98 |
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Trolololo
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It was money paid for merely staying in the job - dress it up however you wish. Nothing more than glorified testimonial. Oh and do you really believe he had no input into it. Suggest you go and lean how remuneration committees actually works in reality - not the official guff about the CEO & Exec directors having no say or thoughts on the matter. I realise that your love of Peter has no ends but trying to be condescending when you talk absolute nonsense is actually quite funny. So do tell, other than turning up for work, what was the £650,000 for ? Growing the business ? Nope, here is the Turnover for the 4 years 2008 £72.95M 2009 £72.59M 2010 £61.72M 2011 £52.56M Growing the customer base ? Doubt it, the Season Tickets numbers reduced from 54,000 to 42,500 in that period. Success on the pitch ? Highly unlikely. Three trophies, only one of which was a league championship in that time. And only one entry into the Champions League - 2008/9 He also earned bonuses in 2009 of 200,000, in 2010 of £152k & in 2011 of £200k And btw - I did criticise the remuneration committee at the time it was paid, for agreeing to it - and I didn't even have to speak to the Swiss Rambler. Maybe you missed it when you were spinning for the board Edited by Corky Buczek, 17 Jul 2014, 12:28 AM.
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| herbert viola | 16 Jul 2014, 10:51 PM Post #99 |
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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Youd have to ask what who the remun committee were looking at as competitors when they agreed to that peak in the competitive salary as CEO of a football club with a paultry 80m turnover. perhaps we should look by that pish though and just agree that it was window dressing a nice one-off bonus payable to pistol pete agreed by desmond. His salary and entire remuneration is shocking for the role he has. He is likely on close to 3-4* the salary paid to the manager of the football club, and not far off par with some of our higher paid players. And it just seems to go up year after year. Perhaps he has an inverse bonus based on quantity of reducing season ticketholders? |
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| frankebhoy | 16 Jul 2014, 11:34 PM Post #100 |
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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We all know and accept the board are managing decline in Scotland. The warning signs were there however from last years champions league results About the direction we are heading. The board are doing a pretty good job in terms of selling all our best players And then replacing them with lower quality players, but this can't continue as Already we the supporters are seriously disenchanted by this short term approach. The board would have been under severe pressure if karagandy had Scored instead of hitting the bar late in the game at parkhead last year. Peter lawwell would maybe have felt uncomfortable pocketing his million Pound package, then again maybe he wouldn't? |
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