Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account.

Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,978 Views)
Willie Wonka
Member Avatar
Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:59 AM
Corky Buczek
5 Aug 2014, 10:54 AM
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:48 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Don't blame the guy - its playing PL and the board at their own game.

This close season and last summer the board waited to see how little they could get away with spending. They got lucky twelve months ago. This year it look like exploding in their face. They can have no complaints if people demand reductions on what they are paying to watch Celtic given what they are being asked to watch on the park.
also, it's a "no lose" gamble. He gets quoted a price today, based on what might be , and, come Thursday morning, either pays that price, or gets a sizeable discount for the loss of CL games. Celtic have left themselves wide open to taking a huge reduction in Corporate income.
And the whole club suffers.
The further you go down, the bigger, and more expensive the climb back.
Even decent celtic sides in the 80s often drew less than, well less than 30k at home. Consistent downsizing of quality and ability will just lead to more apathy, sevco in the top league or not.


I've not got a problem with the overall strategy, neither do I think moneys being salted off into some account but by God the strategy could be worked a damn sight better.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Clydebank Bhoy
Member Avatar
Not as sad as psychoheart
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Willie Wonka
5 Aug 2014, 08:12 PM
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:59 AM
Corky Buczek
5 Aug 2014, 10:54 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
also, it's a "no lose" gamble. He gets quoted a price today, based on what might be , and, come Thursday morning, either pays that price, or gets a sizeable discount for the loss of CL games. Celtic have left themselves wide open to taking a huge reduction in Corporate income.
And the whole club suffers.
The further you go down, the bigger, and more expensive the climb back.
Even decent celtic sides in the 80s often drew less than, well less than 30k at home. Consistent downsizing of quality and ability will just lead to more apathy, sevco in the top league or not.


I've not got a problem with the overall strategy, neither do I think moneys being salted off into some account but by God the strategy could be worked a damn sight better.
Last line absolutely nails it for me.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wigwam
Member Avatar
Older than dirt
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Clydebank Bhoy
5 Aug 2014, 08:13 PM
Willie Wonka
5 Aug 2014, 08:12 PM
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
And the whole club suffers.
The further you go down, the bigger, and more expensive the climb back.
Even decent celtic sides in the 80s often drew less than, well less than 30k at home. Consistent downsizing of quality and ability will just lead to more apathy, sevco in the top league or not.


I've not got a problem with the overall strategy, neither do I think moneys being salted off into some account but by God the strategy could be worked a damn sight better.
Last line absolutely nails it for me.
Exactly, we all assumed buying players (like Ki, Hooper, Wanyama, VVD, Forster) , developing for 2 or 3 seasons, selling to England at higher price would mean more funds to buy a higher quality of player to do the same with. Given we've also had 2 years' CL money over that period it's mind boggling that we have invested more, or someone's ego got out of control and they thought they had the Midas touch and got lazy, landing us with Bangura, Balde, etc. I'll leave Biton, Johannsen and Pukki out as they are at least decent level players, if not going to be able to be sold like the previous batch for higher money.

As for the meekness comment, I think push is about to come to shove on that front and this time next week there are going to be a lot of angry punters out there looking for answers. It's been hard to argue while the league has been won and CL attained, even though most of us can see beyond those stats to the general decline in quality.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
scarman
Occasional Substitute
[ *  *  *  * ]
Whatever I said last year at this time. Cos nothing has changed. And Pl should resign. Clueless.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
But he won't. As another poster says, he is Bombproof it would appear.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
crtmmc
Member Avatar
Shining bright
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Clydebank Bhoy
5 Aug 2014, 09:43 AM
paulfg42
4 Aug 2014, 11:42 PM
Do Celtic shareholders get a return on their investment?
Nah, not really. The holders of Ordinary shares have never received a dividend, and probably never will (and rightly so). The holders of preference shares receive a 6% dividend annually although I think they can opt to take that in ordinary shares rather than cash. Last year we paid out £527k cash in preference dividends, which I'd imagine won't be a huge sum of money to those who hold those securities and obviously doesn't really move the needle in terms of Celtic's financial results.

That's where I disagree with Deebhoy. Those running the club aren't not investing in the team (or at least not to the extent that most of us would like) in order to personally enrich themselves, it's genuinely because they believe that is the correct strategy to employ. Looking at the financials, it's not like we're stockpiling a huge amount of cash which we'll deploy if/when the huns return, but we certainly do have the capacity to spend a bit more money on the playing squad. I can certainly see the argument that it doesn't make sense to splurge £10m+ on players when the incremental benefit of that spend is questionable from a financial perspective (i.e how much extra cash do you generate from winning a last 16 game to get to the quarters in the CL), but I think the balance is completely wrong.

Even putting the footballing aspect to one side and looking at it purely from a business mindset, there's a huge risk of a bit of a downward spiral where the poor football on show leads to lower ticket revenues and no CL football, which constrains the future ability to invest in the team, which leads to an even poorer side etc etc. It really does make sense to properly invest in the team at this stage IMO.

Being a bit skeptical I wonder whether the major shareholders have some other way of being remunerated other than the dividends or to be blunt filtering money into their back pockets. Some form of creative accounting that disguises where the money is going. Is this possible?
A lot of banks used to offer their employees shares as an alternative to cash bonus but if the shares were kept for three years then they got a free top up of 50% extra shares. Surely our major shareholders could employ similar schemes or does that have to be openly declared.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Lobey Dosser
Member Avatar
Considering retirement
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
crtmmc
5 Aug 2014, 11:27 PM
Clydebank Bhoy
5 Aug 2014, 09:43 AM
paulfg42
4 Aug 2014, 11:42 PM
Do Celtic shareholders get a return on their investment?
Nah, not really. The holders of Ordinary shares have never received a dividend, and probably never will (and rightly so). The holders of preference shares receive a 6% dividend annually although I think they can opt to take that in ordinary shares rather than cash. Last year we paid out £527k cash in preference dividends, which I'd imagine won't be a huge sum of money to those who hold those securities and obviously doesn't really move the needle in terms of Celtic's financial results.

That's where I disagree with Deebhoy. Those running the club aren't not investing in the team (or at least not to the extent that most of us would like) in order to personally enrich themselves, it's genuinely because they believe that is the correct strategy to employ. Looking at the financials, it's not like we're stockpiling a huge amount of cash which we'll deploy if/when the huns return, but we certainly do have the capacity to spend a bit more money on the playing squad. I can certainly see the argument that it doesn't make sense to splurge £10m+ on players when the incremental benefit of that spend is questionable from a financial perspective (i.e how much extra cash do you generate from winning a last 16 game to get to the quarters in the CL), but I think the balance is completely wrong.

Even putting the footballing aspect to one side and looking at it purely from a business mindset, there's a huge risk of a bit of a downward spiral where the poor football on show leads to lower ticket revenues and no CL football, which constrains the future ability to invest in the team, which leads to an even poorer side etc etc. It really does make sense to properly invest in the team at this stage IMO.

Being a bit skeptical I wonder whether the major shareholders have some other way of being remunerated other than the dividends or to be blunt filtering money into their back pockets. Some form of creative accounting that disguises where the money is going. Is this possible?
A lot of banks used to offer their employees shares as an alternative to cash bonus but if the shares were kept for three years then they got a free top up of 50% extra shares. Surely our major shareholders could employ similar schemes or does that have to be openly declared.
We are a public limited company, everything has to be openly declared.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
daleybhoy
Member Avatar
First-team captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
crtmmc
5 Aug 2014, 11:27 PM
Clydebank Bhoy
5 Aug 2014, 09:43 AM
paulfg42
4 Aug 2014, 11:42 PM
Do Celtic shareholders get a return on their investment?
Nah, not really. The holders of Ordinary shares have never received a dividend, and probably never will (and rightly so). The holders of preference shares receive a 6% dividend annually although I think they can opt to take that in ordinary shares rather than cash. Last year we paid out £527k cash in preference dividends, which I'd imagine won't be a huge sum of money to those who hold those securities and obviously doesn't really move the needle in terms of Celtic's financial results.

That's where I disagree with Deebhoy. Those running the club aren't not investing in the team (or at least not to the extent that most of us would like) in order to personally enrich themselves, it's genuinely because they believe that is the correct strategy to employ. Looking at the financials, it's not like we're stockpiling a huge amount of cash which we'll deploy if/when the huns return, but we certainly do have the capacity to spend a bit more money on the playing squad. I can certainly see the argument that it doesn't make sense to splurge £10m+ on players when the incremental benefit of that spend is questionable from a financial perspective (i.e how much extra cash do you generate from winning a last 16 game to get to the quarters in the CL), but I think the balance is completely wrong.

Even putting the footballing aspect to one side and looking at it purely from a business mindset, there's a huge risk of a bit of a downward spiral where the poor football on show leads to lower ticket revenues and no CL football, which constrains the future ability to invest in the team, which leads to an even poorer side etc etc. It really does make sense to properly invest in the team at this stage IMO.

Being a bit skeptical I wonder whether the major shareholders have some other way of being remunerated other than the dividends or to be blunt filtering money into their back pockets. Some form of creative accounting that disguises where the money is going. Is this possible?
A lot of banks used to offer their employees shares as an alternative to cash bonus but if the shares were kept for three years then they got a free top up of 50% extra shares. Surely our major shareholders could employ similar schemes or does that have to be openly declared.
It allows them to swan around feeling like "custodians" and to go their old grannies and show how big time they are.

For most of them it will be a mixture of a hobby and a privilege.

Also give them access to a place to meet and greet potential customers as well as networking with other business types.

Unless you're the huns where it allows a whole load of shysters an opportunity to legitimise themselves as real proper business types and not gangsters/fraudsters etc etc
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Belgrano
Member Avatar
-
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
It's the law of diminishing returns in terms of the board's strategy of selling off our best players each summer, for the past 4 years.

Sure, you can buy a player on the cheap, develop him, and sell him at a profit to an English side. All the time, you can also qualify for the Champions League. The combined incomes from both cover the running costs of the club, and subsidises the low incomes generated from the domestic Scottish league. But then, if it was that easy - wouldn't everyone be doing it? I know most of the teams in the English Premier League seem to be rolling in crazy money. But surely they'd far rather buy a player for say, £1-2m, rather than buy them for us for £10-12m?

The reality is, it's very difficult to nurture a £1.5m player into a £12m player. We've kinda got lucky with the McGeady, Ki and Wanyama deals. And the board deserve credit for them. But they handled the Hooper, Ledley and Samaras deals awfully. And the likes of Balde, Pukki and Bangura prove that it's much harder to do in reality than in practice. We're now at a stage where if we sell Forster and Van Dijk (which, all indications are that we're trying to) there is pretty much no-one left who I think we could get a good transfer fee for. Add to that, the overall quality of the squad has been diluted to such a degree now that I very much doubt we'll qualify for the Champions League this year (and probably not next year if the trend continues) then it really is difficult to see what the policy has achieved? That's before you even take into account that the fans are becoming increasingly scunnered with the whole thing, and won't turn up in the same number or invest the same in tickets to watch such an inferior product.

No matter what way you look at it, it's difficult to see how it couldn't have been approached differently, and there's definitely a feeling that the board have effed up (and what has made it all the worse, is just how inevitable and how obvious it was going to happen).
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
josephledley
First-team starter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Corky Buczek
5 Aug 2014, 09:58 PM
But he won't. As another poster says, he is Bombproof it would appear.
he's not if we as fans get up off our backsides and do something about it
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:59 AM
Corky Buczek
5 Aug 2014, 10:54 AM
fatboab
5 Aug 2014, 10:48 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Don't blame the guy - its playing PL and the board at their own game.

This close season and last summer the board waited to see how little they could get away with spending. They got lucky twelve months ago. This year it look like exploding in their face. They can have no complaints if people demand reductions on what they are paying to watch Celtic given what they are being asked to watch on the park.
also, it's a "no lose" gamble. He gets quoted a price today, based on what might be , and, come Thursday morning, either pays that price, or gets a sizeable discount for the loss of CL games. Celtic have left themselves wide open to taking a huge reduction in Corporate income.
Your friend will be looking for the discount
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pauldg1
Member Avatar
A spray tanned Furby, eating KFC and screaming at a Gold Star family
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
eff them. This is their faults. pumpkins. :carrot:
Edited by pauldg1, 6 Aug 2014, 09:06 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MartyBhoyCfc
Member Avatar
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Lets get this shower to eff away from our club.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

Lawwell out.
Quote Post Goto Top
 
harryhoodshatrick
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
We never learnt from wgs time as manager when he wasn't given £3.5m to sign fletcher and this probably cost us 3 champions league money.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Deebhoy
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
harryhoodshatrick
6 Aug 2014, 09:10 PM
We never learnt from wgs time as manager when he wasn't given £3.5m to sign fletcher and this probably cost us 3 champions league money.
:ffs: :ffs:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Joe the Baker
Member Avatar
It feels like yesterday... I wish it was tomorrow.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The Europa league play off tie better be on the effing season ticket after this shambles.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
JonnyB67
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Shambles. They haven't backed the manager and downsized everything. Everything apart from Pedro's bonus.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
bigpoppapump
Member Avatar
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
twist
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mickeybhoy84
Member Avatar
Living the dream
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The team struggled to beat a poor Kazakh team in last years qualifiers, the board did nothing about it.
Attendances have been falling, the board have done nothing about it.
The previous manager left because of the lack of funds and potential replacements knocked us back for much the same reason, the board have done nothing about it.

I wonder what they'll do now that they don't have the safety net of CL money?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply