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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,980 Views)
Clydebank Bhoy
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Not as sad as psychoheart
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wigwam
4 Aug 2014, 05:41 PM
Clydebank Bhoy
4 Aug 2014, 12:55 PM
No time at the moment to go through that, but that's pretty much the last decade. The drop off in debt from 05 to 06 was mainly due to the last share issue.
Cheers CB, so along with the news above (if true) of record T/O this year, hard to imagine costs have risen (?) we should have money in the bank, as well as the ability to dip a little into the red if required. There's no other hidden stuff like long term loans not needing repaid yet or stuff like that?

It's absolutely the case we should have money to spend on new players. It is starting to like like some carrot is at it. :angry:
We'll have plenty of net cash at the latest year end. No long term loans hidden in there at all, that's all included in the net debt figure.
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Deebhoy
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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The purpose of a PLC is to run the business efficently and make money for its shareholders. While most of us don't really give a monkey's about that because our connection with the club is an emotional one the same cannot be said of of all shareholders and unfortunately they tend to be those that own a large amount of shares. They did not become rich people by giving away their money and want to see a return on their "investment". I'm sure some of them do OK when we pay a dividend.

However you can only cut so much until the product that generates the money is no longer the attraction it once was for those that part with their cash - i.e. the supporters. If we don't make the Champions League (which looks likely) it will have a significant impact on our turnover this year even if we sell FF and Virgil. The only escape clause for the Board is if Sevco get promoted at the end of the season. They know season ticket sales will increase and while they will spend money over the next few weeks I would expect more to be spent next summer if Sevco get promoted to make it look like they are rising to the challenge.

Appointing Deila is a massive gamble by the Board and the last time they gambled really like that was when Mowbray was appointed. If they get lucky and it works out they can loosen the purse strings a bit more next season and in the very least the manager will have had a season to create his own team. The Board think they are in a really good position but their naivety in making so many cuts across the club could well be their downfall and something that might take us a while to bounce back from if our manager isn't up to do the job they think he is.
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tinsoldier
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Older than dirt
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Deebhoy
4 Aug 2014, 10:37 PM
The purpose of a PLC is to run the business efficently and make money for its shareholders. While most of us don't really give a monkey's about that because our connection with the club is an emotional one the same cannot be said of of all shareholders and unfortunately they tend to be those that own a large amount of shares. They did not become rich people by giving away their money and want to see a return on their "investment". I'm sure some of them do OK when we pay a dividend.

However you can only cut so much until the product that generates the money is no longer the attraction it once was for those that part with their cash - i.e. the supporters. If we don't make the Champions League (which looks likely) it will have a significant impact on our turnover this year even if we sell FF and Virgil. The only escape clause for the Board is if Sevco get promoted at the end of the season. They know season ticket sales will increase and while they will spend money over the next few weeks I would expect more to be spent next summer if Sevco get promoted to make it look like they are rising to the challenge.

Appointing Deila is a massive gamble by the Board and the last time they gambled really like that was when Mowbray was appointed. If they get lucky and it works out they can loosen the purse strings a bit more next season and in the very least the manager will have had a season to create his own team. The Board think they are in a really good position but their naivety in making so many cuts across the club could well be their downfall and something that might take us a while to bounce back from if our manager isn't up to do the job they think he is.
Great post :thumbsup:

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padrepio
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Getting on a bit
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anybody know how much we received for handing over Celtic Park for the Commonwealth Games??

Would it go anyway to making up a shortfall if we don`t get through to the group stages of CL?
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Dr Huffarr
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Club Captain
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padrepio
4 Aug 2014, 10:38 PM
anybody know how much we received for handing over Celtic Park for the Commonwealth Games??

Would it go anyway to making up a shortfall if we don`t get through to the group stages of CL?
New pitch and help with frontage.
Lubbly Jubbly.
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pauldg1
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A spray tanned Furby, eating KFC and screaming at a Gold Star family
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padrepio
4 Aug 2014, 10:38 PM
anybody know how much we received for handing over Celtic Park for the Commonwealth Games??

Would it go anyway to making up a shortfall if we don`t get through to the group stages of CL?
The Champions League shortfall would be about £20 million I think. No chance we got anywhere near that.
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Gerinho
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Deebhoy
4 Aug 2014, 10:37 PM
The purpose of a PLC is to run the business efficently and make money for its shareholders. While most of us don't really give a monkey's about that because our connection with the club is an emotional one the same cannot be said of of all shareholders and unfortunately they tend to be those that own a large amount of shares. They did not become rich people by giving away their money and want to see a return on their "investment". I'm sure some of them do OK when we pay a dividend.

However you can only cut so much until the product that generates the money is no longer the attraction it once was for those that part with their cash - i.e. the supporters. If we don't make the Champions League (which looks likely) it will have a significant impact on our turnover this year even if we sell FF and Virgil. The only escape clause for the Board is if Sevco get promoted at the end of the season. They know season ticket sales will increase and while they will spend money over the next few weeks I would expect more to be spent next summer if Sevco get promoted to make it look like they are rising to the challenge.

Appointing Deila is a massive gamble by the Board and the last time they gambled really like that was when Mowbray was appointed. If they get lucky and it works out they can loosen the purse strings a bit more next season and in the very least the manager will have had a season to create his own team. The Board think they are in a really good position but their naivety in making so many cuts across the club could well be their downfall and something that might take us a while to bounce back from if our manager isn't up to do the job they think he is.
Lennon was a bigger punt than Mowbray.
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daleybhoy
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There is no shortfall. We have made fortunes in last few seasons from champ league and player sales. We should have reinvested the money made on 2-3 classy 1st team players but we spread the money too thinly and bought crap.

The guy is an accountant, while useful to have around you certainly wouldn't want them in charge.

He's got away with

We were following the correct model right up until last summer. That was when we needed to make the next step.

It's what happens when you let accountants and bureaucrats run things.

There is more money sloshing around celtic now than there's ever been and we've used it to pay off all debt.

While that is great it should always be remembered that this was possible through football. It was lenny single handedly over 2 or 3 years who turned the guff left behind by Mowbray into a decent champions league team. And the decisions of the board that have put us back in that same mire of 4 years ago.
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Deebhoy
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Gerinho
4 Aug 2014, 11:08 PM
Lennon was a bigger punt than Mowbray.
I completely disagree. They got lucky - very lucky.
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paulfg42
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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Do Celtic shareholders get a return on their investment?
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Gerinho
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Deebhoy
4 Aug 2014, 11:21 PM
Gerinho
4 Aug 2014, 11:08 PM
Lennon was a bigger punt than Mowbray.
I completely disagree. They got lucky - very lucky.
Yeah, so Lennon was a punt. We agree..... I think
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weejimmy
First name on the team-sheet
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Klepton
3 Aug 2014, 08:34 PM
brogan
3 Aug 2014, 03:58 PM
aye fans will moan at lawell but ask them to unsubscribe from sky and theyd say id miss my epl..im a subscriber to sky and im not goin to do it of my own back but if someone from celtic asked for a boycott itd would be off straight away........id be tough but summat needs done
Sky are not the problem: we have far, far greater financial resources than Shakhter Karagandy, Elfsborg or Legia Warsaw. The problem is misapplication of the considerable resources we have, through buying no-hopers. I mean when was the last time we bought a decent striker? Hooper in 2010?
Sky have created a huge problem. Think about it.
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weejimmy
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Deebhoy
4 Aug 2014, 10:37 PM
The purpose of a PLC is to run the business efficently and make money for its shareholders. While most of us don't really give a monkey's about that because our connection with the club is an emotional one the same cannot be said of of all shareholders and unfortunately they tend to be those that own a large amount of shares. They did not become rich people by giving away their money and want to see a return on their "investment". I'm sure some of them do OK when we pay a dividend.

However you can only cut so much until the product that generates the money is no longer the attraction it once was for those that part with their cash - i.e. the supporters. If we don't make the Champions League (which looks likely) it will have a significant impact on our turnover this year even if we sell FF and Virgil. The only escape clause for the Board is if Sevco get promoted at the end of the season. They know season ticket sales will increase and while they will spend money over the next few weeks I would expect more to be spent next summer if Sevco get promoted to make it look like they are rising to the challenge.

Appointing Deila is a massive gamble by the Board and the last time they gambled really like that was when Mowbray was appointed. If they get lucky and it works out they can loosen the purse strings a bit more next season and in the very least the manager will have had a season to create his own team. The Board think they are in a really good position but their naivety in making so many cuts across the club could well be their downfall and something that might take us a while to bounce back from if our manager isn't up to do the job they think he is.
Yep. and if the product is failing and there is no return on their investment, then the CEO gets fired.
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drks
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i can't decide!
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They have - clubs of a similar size and history to us all over Europe (even in bigger and stronger leagues than ours) are having the exact same problems we have, on a different scale. The EPL, helped by Sky, along with PSG, Monaco, Barca and Madrid have created a hyper-inflated transfer market that only those clubs can really afford to buy in, which is leaving everyone else in Europe behind (possible exception being Bayern). Even Juve can't hold onto their best players for long, and the Milan clubs are choking in Juve's dust these days.
Edited by drks, 5 Aug 2014, 12:09 AM.
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Tiny Tim
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drks
5 Aug 2014, 12:08 AM
The EPL, helped by Sky, along with PSG, Monaco, Barca and Madrid have created a hyper-inflated transfer market that only those clubs can really afford to buy in, which is leaving everyone else in Europe behind (possible exception being Bayern).
Rummenigge has been banging on for a few years now that Bayern can't compete with the EPL and La Liga, an that a real, effective FFP needs to be put in place.
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quattrobhoy
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Tiny Tim
5 Aug 2014, 12:14 AM
drks
5 Aug 2014, 12:08 AM
The EPL, helped by Sky, along with PSG, Monaco, Barca and Madrid have created a hyper-inflated transfer market that only those clubs can really afford to buy in, which is leaving everyone else in Europe behind (possible exception being Bayern).
Rummenigge has been banging on for a few years now that Bayern can't compete with the EPL and La Liga, an that a real, effective FFP needs to be put in place.
I know what FFP doesn't stand for: Finance From Peter.
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Clydebank Bhoy
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Not as sad as psychoheart
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paulfg42
4 Aug 2014, 11:42 PM
Do Celtic shareholders get a return on their investment?
Nah, not really. The holders of Ordinary shares have never received a dividend, and probably never will (and rightly so). The holders of preference shares receive a 6% dividend annually although I think they can opt to take that in ordinary shares rather than cash. Last year we paid out £527k cash in preference dividends, which I'd imagine won't be a huge sum of money to those who hold those securities and obviously doesn't really move the needle in terms of Celtic's financial results.

That's where I disagree with Deebhoy. Those running the club aren't not investing in the team (or at least not to the extent that most of us would like) in order to personally enrich themselves, it's genuinely because they believe that is the correct strategy to employ. Looking at the financials, it's not like we're stockpiling a huge amount of cash which we'll deploy if/when the huns return, but we certainly do have the capacity to spend a bit more money on the playing squad. I can certainly see the argument that it doesn't make sense to splurge £10m+ on players when the incremental benefit of that spend is questionable from a financial perspective (i.e how much extra cash do you generate from winning a last 16 game to get to the quarters in the CL), but I think the balance is completely wrong.

Even putting the footballing aspect to one side and looking at it purely from a business mindset, there's a huge risk of a bit of a downward spiral where the poor football on show leads to lower ticket revenues and no CL football, which constrains the future ability to invest in the team, which leads to an even poorer side etc etc. It really does make sense to properly invest in the team at this stage IMO.

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annie1888
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Considering retirement
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padrepio
4 Aug 2014, 10:38 PM
anybody know how much we received for handing over Celtic Park for the Commonwealth Games??

Would it go anyway to making up a shortfall if we don`t get through to the group stages of CL?
According to Matt McGlone on twitter, we made £5.5m :thumbsup:
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

annie1888
5 Aug 2014, 10:03 AM
padrepio
4 Aug 2014, 10:38 PM
anybody know how much we received for handing over Celtic Park for the Commonwealth Games??

Would it go anyway to making up a shortfall if we don`t get through to the group stages of CL?
According to Matt McGlone on twitter, we made £5.5m :thumbsup:
I've heard a similar figure. We held an ace card in late negotiations, as a contract was drawn up but never signed until very late on.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

also , as an interesting aside, I've just had a conversation with a good pal, who's a long time, big corporate client of the club, investing heavily in corporate packages. He's going to CP today to weigh up his options, but is prepared to gamble on the Thursday morning price for his requirements. I guess he's far from the only one.
Multiply this by a good few corporate clients, and there's another revenue stream that will plummet in the months ahead.

The Board have called this badly wrong. How badly?

I think we are a couple of days from finding out.
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