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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,581 Views)
HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM
paulfg42
16 Sep 2016, 10:39 AM
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
That's the real problem. It's not that the club hasn't spent a lot of money. It certainly has. But too much of it has been wasted on duds, sick-notes and chancers.
In terms of transfer fees it didn't really. Most of the above were loans, frees or under £500K. Indeed only Scepovic, Armstrong, Simunovic, Boyata and Sviatchenko cost more than £1M. (You might have to add Cifcti to that IF his fee was seven figures)

That does NOT however mean that when you add it up and include salaries it isn't a waste of money. It is. But during the same time we sold the likes of Forster, Van Dijk Matthews, Tony watt and Kayal. (As I understand Pukki's transfer fee was used to pay him off) SO in terms of NET, we were significant sellers in both years.
Sure. :thumbsup: Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether the millions being spent on the playing squad are going mostly on transfer fees or wages because either way the money goes out the door and the players come in. I'm no accountant so something may well be flying over my head but I don't see any evidence that there's a huge surplus of cash left over at the end of each financial year so I tend to assume that the club spends as much as it can on the team (while simultaneously keeping the lights on and the driveways heated, of course.)

"A lot of money" is, of course, a relative term. I'm old enough to consider that when a player who doesn't kick a single ball in anger all week long still collects a weekly wage that I could survive on for a whole year, then we're talking about a lot of money. I do recognise that this is what football has become nowadays and that my dislike of it changes nothing other than how much money I personally feel like spending on the professional game. *

So from that perspective, I don't have much of an appetite for criticising the board if it "fails" to secure the signing of some jumped up wee tosspot with a hideously exaggerated sense of his own value and importance who reckons he can hold clubs to ransom as the transfer deadline approaches. Football is in a very, very bad way these days because of distorted values, shameless greed and rampant corruption and I genuinely don't envy the board of a club such as Celtic.


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Corky Buczek
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HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
In terms of transfer fees it didn't really. Most of the above were loans, frees or under £500K. Indeed only Scepovic, Armstrong, Simunovic, Boyata and Sviatchenko cost more than £1M. (You might have to add Cifcti to that IF his fee was seven figures)

That does NOT however mean that when you add it up and include salaries it isn't a waste of money. It is. But during the same time we sold the likes of Forster, Van Dijk Matthews, Tony watt and Kayal. (As I understand Pukki's transfer fee was used to pay him off) SO in terms of NET, we were significant sellers in both years.
Sure. :thumbsup: Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether the millions being spent on the playing squad are going mostly on transfer fees or wages because either way the money goes out the door and the players come in. I'm no accountant so something may well be flying over my head but I don't see any evidence that there's a huge surplus of cash left over at the end of each financial year so I tend to assume that the club spends as much as it can on the team (while simultaneously keeping the lights on and the driveways heated, of course.)

"A lot of money" is, of course, a relative term. I'm old enough to consider that when a player who doesn't kick a single ball in anger all week long still collects a weekly wage that I could survive on for a whole year, then we're talking about a lot of money. I do recognise that this is what football has become nowadays and that my dislike of it changes nothing other than how much money I personally feel like spending on the professional game. *

So from that perspective, I don't have much of an appetite for criticising the board if it "fails" to secure the signing of some jumped up wee tosspot with a hideously exaggerated sense of his own value and importance who reckons he can hold clubs to ransom as the transfer deadline approaches. Football is in a very, very bad way these days because of distorted values, shameless greed and rampant corruption and I genuinely don't envy the board of a club such as Celtic.


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I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
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fatboab
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:37 AM
wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 11:28 AM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM

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That will always be the case though. I agree that the money wasted on duds is the main issue. If you add all that up it will be a pretty significant amount.
As FB says, hopefully already addressed, but will take a couple of years / windows to get sorted.
But should the people responsible for the strategy over the past few years (poor transfer windows didn't begin the appointment of Deila - witness the previous two years as well) still be at the club ?
absolutely not. Lawwell should have been out on his backside years ago.
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wigwam
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:37 AM
wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 11:28 AM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That will always be the case though. I agree that the money wasted on duds is the main issue. If you add all that up it will be a pretty significant amount.
As FB says, hopefully already addressed, but will take a couple of years / windows to get sorted.
But should the people responsible for the strategy over the past few years (poor transfer windows didn't begin the appointment of Deila - witness the previous two years as well) still be at the club ?
Depends on whether they were acting on orders from above. If rumours are true about Deila saying they were nothing to do with him to DD at meeting (yeah I know!) then Lawwell will be a lucky man to still be in a job. He's got a lot of things right though so DD has maybe given him a bollocking and another chance? Hard to say without insider knowledge.
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HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Sure. :thumbsup: Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether the millions being spent on the playing squad are going mostly on transfer fees or wages because either way the money goes out the door and the players come in. I'm no accountant so something may well be flying over my head but I don't see any evidence that there's a huge surplus of cash left over at the end of each financial year so I tend to assume that the club spends as much as it can on the team (while simultaneously keeping the lights on and the driveways heated, of course.)

"A lot of money" is, of course, a relative term. I'm old enough to consider that when a player who doesn't kick a single ball in anger all week long still collects a weekly wage that I could survive on for a whole year, then we're talking about a lot of money. I do recognise that this is what football has become nowadays and that my dislike of it changes nothing other than how much money I personally feel like spending on the professional game. *

So from that perspective, I don't have much of an appetite for criticising the board if it "fails" to secure the signing of some jumped up wee tosspot with a hideously exaggerated sense of his own value and importance who reckons he can hold clubs to ransom as the transfer deadline approaches. Football is in a very, very bad way these days because of distorted values, shameless greed and rampant corruption and I genuinely don't envy the board of a club such as Celtic.


*
Spoiler: click to toggle
I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
I envy his salary. I would absolutely hate to have his job.
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wigwam
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Sure. :thumbsup: Frankly, it makes no difference to me whether the millions being spent on the playing squad are going mostly on transfer fees or wages because either way the money goes out the door and the players come in. I'm no accountant so something may well be flying over my head but I don't see any evidence that there's a huge surplus of cash left over at the end of each financial year so I tend to assume that the club spends as much as it can on the team (while simultaneously keeping the lights on and the driveways heated, of course.)

"A lot of money" is, of course, a relative term. I'm old enough to consider that when a player who doesn't kick a single ball in anger all week long still collects a weekly wage that I could survive on for a whole year, then we're talking about a lot of money. I do recognise that this is what football has become nowadays and that my dislike of it changes nothing other than how much money I personally feel like spending on the professional game. *

So from that perspective, I don't have much of an appetite for criticising the board if it "fails" to secure the signing of some jumped up wee tosspot with a hideously exaggerated sense of his own value and importance who reckons he can hold clubs to ransom as the transfer deadline approaches. Football is in a very, very bad way these days because of distorted values, shameless greed and rampant corruption and I genuinely don't envy the board of a club such as Celtic.


*
Spoiler: click to toggle
I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
From the business side he has done very well, as with outgoing transfers. Nobody really knows who 'chose' those terrible players. The important thing is it looks like it's been changed anyway. Just in time too. :twitch:
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remy mcswain
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HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:32 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
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I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
I envy his salary. I would absolutely hate to have his job.
He has one of the easiest CEO/MD jobs going. Especially for the money he trousers.
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HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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remy mcswain
16 Sep 2016, 12:35 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:32 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM

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I envy his salary. I would absolutely hate to have his job.
He has one of the easiest CEO/MD jobs going. Especially for the money he trousers.
I don't doubt it. I still wouldn't want that kind of job for all the money hidden away in Gavin Masterton's Swiss bank accounts. :lol:
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bhoyfromdacountyhell
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wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 12:33 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM

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I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
From the business side he has done very well, as with outgoing transfers. Nobody really knows who 'chose' those terrible players. The important thing is it looks like it's been changed anyway. Just in time too. :twitch:
Has our revenue not decreased significantly during his time in charge? I can't find anything quick and simple on the internet but a google shows headlines for the past number of years showing big decreases in revenue- sometimes turning a profit
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wigwam
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bhoyfromdacountyhell
16 Sep 2016, 12:43 PM
wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 12:33 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM

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From the business side he has done very well, as with outgoing transfers. Nobody really knows who 'chose' those terrible players. The important thing is it looks like it's been changed anyway. Just in time too. :twitch:
Has our revenue not decreased significantly during his time in charge? I can't find anything quick and simple on the internet but a google shows headlines for the past number of years showing big decreases in revenue- sometimes turning a profit
He was brought in to manage downsizing and get debt repaid though after the spending of the first 3 MON years. I'm not saying he's been all good but not been all bad either in a period where Scottish football has been through the wringer. As I said, the main issue over the last few years has been recruitment, both managers and players. Lenny's success maybe got him out of jail previously. Looks like it has been resolved, whether it will be sustainable long term we'll have to wait and see.
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QualityStreet1970
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Quiet Assasin
14 Sep 2016, 12:26 PM
I said a few years back that we were in serious risk of becoming a Dinamo Zagreb like club. Win your domestic league, occasionally fluke a CL qualification and get pumped rotten when your there. That might seem OK in terms of 'let's pocket the cash' but the pumpings in the CL reduce the coefficient and make it harder to pocket that cash.

Whilst even with some extra investment in the team, I don't think we're beating Barça in the Camp Nou, I think the odds of a 7-0 thumping are reduced and the odds of getting even third in the group increase, which generates income and coefficient points.

I just hope this is the start of a long term building job and not a one off roll of the dice.
Pretty good summary--and so concise!

It's hard to overstate how badly the club has been run over the last few years. There's more to it than elevating an assistant-manager candidate to manager; then basing your transfer policy on the I Ching. Footballers might not be rocket surgeons, but they're not complete idiots: if they see a succession of random, inadequate signings passing through the revolving door, they'll realise that somebody is taking the David Nish. If a football club ends up in the hands of people who don't have much at stake, that will eventually be reflected in the team's performances. (Same thing probably applies to most businesses--human nature, innit.)

In last year's Cup semi-final, we looked dominated Poundshop Rangers in manner that reflected our financial advantage over them. But only one team played like they had something it stake--and it wasn't those chaps in the green and white hoops. The Huns were still lucky to win--but we were a bloody mess. Make no mistake, we were on the heated driveway to hell. Thankfully Dermot Desmond knew that decisive action had to be taken.

It's hard to underestimate the rebuilding job Rodgers took on when he arrived at CP. Fortunately, the stakes are as high as they get for our new manager. After Liverpool, Rodgers badly needed to restore his reputation--and he saw Celtic as a club with the potential to put him back on the map. (Having a manager who understands the club is obviously good, but it's not a major factor here.) If Rodgers manages to achieve his personal goals while he's Celtic manager, he'll be leaving us in a far better state than we were in when he arrived. Everybody wins.

Rodgers got off to a strong start in terms of signings and CL qualification; but a difficult draw was made worse by (ahem) the club's failure to bring in midfield reinforcements. The next few weeks will be a bit turbulent, to say the least, but the manager will continue to build in January, and again next summer. There are no guarantees in football--but we might have got the right man at the right time.

Edited by QualityStreet1970, 16 Sep 2016, 12:55 PM.
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Corky Buczek
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wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 12:33 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 12:25 PM

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I think quite a few folk would envy PL's salary especially as no matter how much of a ricketts he makes when it comes to transfers or managerial appointments, he is still always there - as is his bonus.
From the business side he has done very well, as with outgoing transfers. Nobody really knows who 'chose' those terrible players. The important thing is it looks like it's been changed anyway. Just in time too. :twitch:
Sorry mate that is nonsense. Look at how much money we have spunked on bad transfers - scatter gun and from positions of weakness in the last week of the window - with the resultant repercussions in Europe and our overall trophy haul. Despite far greater resources, in the last decade, we've had our dinner served to us by the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Sion, Copenhagen, Happoel tel Aviv, Legia, Maribor, Malmo and Molde. Domestically I would argue that we should have won far more trophies than we have.

It happens far too often for it NOT to be something running through the club. PL is the common denominator.

Secondly if a CEO is brought in to manage downsizing then why pay him an EPL salary ? Heck of a lot of easier to cut expenditure than it is to grow a company.

As i pointed out earlier this morning, choosing to walk away from spending, deciding to leave positions unfilled in the team is every bit as big a gamble as spending money you don't have. And far too often we have gambled and lost.
Edited by Corky Buczek, 16 Sep 2016, 01:09 PM.
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QualityStreet1970
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:58 PM
Sorry mate that is nonsense. Look at how much money we have spunked on bad transfers - scatter gun and from positions of weakness in the last week of the window - with the resultant repercussions in Europe and our overall trophy haul. Despite far greater resources, in the last decade, we've had our dinner served to us by the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Sion, Copenhagen, Happoel tel Aviv, Legia, Maribor, Malmo and Molde. Domestically I would argue that we should have won far more trophies than we have.

It happens far too often for it NOT to be something running through the club. PL is the common denominator.

Secondly if a CEO is brought in to manage downsizing then why pay him an EPL salary ? Heck of a lot of easier to cut expenditure than it is to grow a company.

As i pointed out earlier this morning, choosing to walk away from spending, deciding to leave positions unfilled in the team is every bit as big a gamble as spending money you don't have. And far too often we have gambled and lost.
Now if someone could just print that out & slip it into the same envelope as Lawwell's next bonus cheque...

(KPIs? Pistolero Pet don't need your stinkin' KPIs!)
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LambertandButler
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Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Edited by LambertandButler, 17 Sep 2016, 08:02 AM.
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Milton
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LambertandButler
17 Sep 2016, 08:00 AM
Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Pretty disgusting if indeed true.
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TheRealTimShady
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Milton
17 Sep 2016, 08:35 AM
LambertandButler
17 Sep 2016, 08:00 AM
Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Pretty disgusting if indeed true.
sickening.
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johnbhoy1958
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Milton
17 Sep 2016, 08:35 AM
LambertandButler
17 Sep 2016, 08:00 AM
Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Pretty disgusting if indeed true.
If true then said executive should be out on his ear.
Having said that let's see if the DR names anyone or supplies any real evidence.I don't want to trivialise this in any way but by now we all know that the DR are accepting Traynors cash to biggy up Sevco.Part of that tactic includes undermining us(rememember the "zero hr contracts story 2 days before the Hun game).If everyone is talking about us then they're not talking about them & their problems!.
As I said though,if true & the DR can back up their story then heads should roll.If untrue,then I'd expect the club to back any employee in a legal action against the DR.No one wants a sexual harrassment charge on their CV.
Edited by johnbhoy1958, 17 Sep 2016, 08:46 AM.
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wigwam
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Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:58 PM
wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 12:33 PM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 12:28 PM

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From the business side he has done very well, as with outgoing transfers. Nobody really knows who 'chose' those terrible players. The important thing is it looks like it's been changed anyway. Just in time too. :twitch:
Sorry mate that is nonsense. Look at how much money we have spunked on bad transfers - scatter gun and from positions of weakness in the last week of the window - with the resultant repercussions in Europe and our overall trophy haul. Despite far greater resources, in the last decade, we've had our dinner served to us by the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Sion, Copenhagen, Happoel tel Aviv, Legia, Maribor, Malmo and Molde. Domestically I would argue that we should have won far more trophies than we have.

It happens far too often for it NOT to be something running through the club. PL is the common denominator.

Secondly if a CEO is brought in to manage downsizing then why pay him an EPL salary ? Heck of a lot of easier to cut expenditure than it is to grow a company.

As i pointed out earlier this morning, choosing to walk away from spending, deciding to leave positions unfilled in the team is every bit as big a gamble as spending money you don't have. And far too often we have gambled and lost.
Don't disagree with any of that (or that he's probably overpaid) - those are all football things though, I only meant as a business we've been run well. He came in when we were tens of millions in debt remember after the big spending MON years and losing millions year on year. That had to stop. We're lucky Brian Quinn called it when he did. Like Fergus before him, took stick as fans always want more players, better players.
The stuff you've listed is football related. In the main caused by poor recruitment. Obviously there are rumours he's overstepped his mark through having too much power and been involved in player recruitment (directly or indirectly). The lack of transparency means it's hard to say who was responsible for certain players managers since WGS seem to have had foisted on them. I wouldn't be averse to replacing him, but careful what you wish for. A new guy might have got less for VVD, Forster, Wanyama etc. Lawwell even managed to get us over 1m for Beattie and a Heid with 6 months left on contract IIRC. If he was replaced with a worse version of himself getting the same orders from above, it could end up going badly. Or an Alan McDonald that comes in with a dream team vision and exits leaving a mess and tens of millions down the drain.
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oneillsrevolution
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LambertandButler
17 Sep 2016, 08:00 AM
Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Obviously have a lot of sympathy for any employee, especially female, being harrassed by a creepy boss. I dont have any specifics related to the case and wont comment.

And I'm not an employment contract lawyer either, but solution looks fairly standard to me. Creepy boss no longer there, employee with a substantial pay-off, both tied into confidentiality agreements. That seems to be the basis that Celtic 'covered it up' but it seems to be standard practice for big organisations, no?

Interesting she left in 2015 but has chosen to go public now.
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mick82
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oneillsrevolution
17 Sep 2016, 09:44 AM
LambertandButler
17 Sep 2016, 08:00 AM
Daily Record going with allegations that a 'senior official' at the club covered up the sexual harassment of an employee on their front page this morning.
Obviously have a lot of sympathy for any employee, especially female, being harrassed by a creepy boss. I dont have any specifics related to the case and wont comment.

And I'm not an employment contract lawyer either, but solution looks fairly standard to me. Creepy boss no longer there, employee with a substantial pay-off, both tied into confidentiality agreements. That seems to be the basis that Celtic 'covered it up' but it seems to be standard practice for big organisations, no?

Interesting she left in 2015 but has chosen to go public now.
Confidentiality clauses would be pretty standard in a settlement agreement.

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