Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account.

Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,582 Views)
Adam Smith 11
Member Avatar
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bhoyball
14 Sep 2016, 01:52 PM
how much of the Headline figure of £25 -30 m for reaching CL do we see? Surely it's taxed? Also CL home games overheads , policing etc . Players bonuses. Say we come out with £15m Probably buys two sinclair type buys over a four year contract. We need to makesure we spend it right. Next year is when we would see the effect of this extra money.
it won't be taxed as revenue, it will be taxed around 20% if we don't spend it on operating costs.

The player bonuses are contributing to part of a players take home pay so it allows us to sign better players which is the point of getting the money.

So £30m is £30m.

Home games are profit on top as the £2m plus income per game tops the overheads considerably. As were the 3 qualifiers.

We are in a good place relatively speaking just not at the very top table.

Could be a lot, lot worse.
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 14 Sep 2016, 02:04 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wigwam
Member Avatar
Older than dirt
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Adam Smith 11
14 Sep 2016, 02:00 PM
Bhoyball
14 Sep 2016, 01:52 PM
how much of the Headline figure of £25 -30 m for reaching CL do we see? Surely it's taxed? Also CL home games overheads , policing etc . Players bonuses. Say we come out with £15m Probably buys two sinclair type buys over a four year contract. We need to makesure we spend it right. Next year is when we would see the effect of this extra money.
it won't be taxed as revenue, it will be taxed around 20% if we don't spend it on operating costs.

The player bonuses are contributing to part of a players take home pay so it allows us to sign better players which is the point of getting the money.

So £30m is £30m.

Home games are profit on top as the £2m plus income per game tops the overheads considerably. As were the 3 qualifiers.

We are in a good place relatively speaking just not at the very top table.

Could be a lot, lot worse.
Yup, and as the gap between us and Barca is getting wider, so is the gap between us and the rest of Scottish football. Hard to see where it will end but seems to be accelerating now. The huns timed their rise and demise really badly. :lol: If this had all been happening around 1994 they'd have been n among it totally possibly. Shame. :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bhoyball
Member Avatar
No trouble with trebles.
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Adam Smith 11
14 Sep 2016, 02:00 PM
Bhoyball
14 Sep 2016, 01:52 PM
how much of the Headline figure of £25 -30 m for reaching CL do we see? Surely it's taxed? Also CL home games overheads , policing etc . Players bonuses. Say we come out with £15m Probably buys two sinclair type buys over a four year contract. We need to makesure we spend it right. Next year is when we would see the effect of this extra money.
it won't be taxed as revenue, it will be taxed around 20% if we don't spend it on operating costs.

The player bonuses are contributing to part of a players take home pay so it allows us to sign better players which is the point of getting the money.

So £30m is £30m.

Home games are profit on top as the £2m plus income per game tops the overheads considerably. As were the 3 qualifiers.

We are in a good place relatively speaking just not at the very top table.

Could be a lot, lot worse.
Not disagreeing just trying to understand it a bit more . So a sell out CL home game attracts 60k at average of what £30? 60k x 30 = 1.8m Overheads on this? = ? no idea. Surely the players get some extra dough for playing an extra game? or am i off here. How much profit is made from a full house CL game is the question?
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Adam Smith 11
Member Avatar
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bhoyball
14 Sep 2016, 02:35 PM
Adam Smith 11
14 Sep 2016, 02:00 PM
Bhoyball
14 Sep 2016, 01:52 PM
how much of the Headline figure of £25 -30 m for reaching CL do we see? Surely it's taxed? Also CL home games overheads , policing etc . Players bonuses. Say we come out with £15m Probably buys two sinclair type buys over a four year contract. We need to makesure we spend it right. Next year is when we would see the effect of this extra money.
it won't be taxed as revenue, it will be taxed around 20% if we don't spend it on operating costs.

The player bonuses are contributing to part of a players take home pay so it allows us to sign better players which is the point of getting the money.

So £30m is £30m.

Home games are profit on top as the £2m plus income per game tops the overheads considerably. As were the 3 qualifiers.

We are in a good place relatively speaking just not at the very top table.

Could be a lot, lot worse.
Not disagreeing just trying to understand it a bit more . So a sell out CL home game attracts 60k at average of what £30? 60k x 30 = 1.8m Overheads on this? = ? no idea. Surely the players get some extra dough for playing an extra game? or am i off here. How much profit is made from a full house CL game is the question?
More like 33-35 a ticket. So £2.1m per game plus what you spend in the ground possibky net of overheads = £6m. £10m including qualifiers.

What the players get paid is irrelevant as players factor that into the reasons they come here as they have the potential of their share of I think a £2.4m pool for getting to CL.

Only if you are looking at us hoarding money or paying higher dividends is this relevant. The reason we make the majority of our money is to pay more to players so they will join.
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 14 Sep 2016, 03:43 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
QualityStreet1970
First-team starter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
14 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM
Ess
14 Sep 2016, 12:19 PM
Last night showed what happens when you don't invest the money you have in the squad
we do invest the money we have. You want us to invest the money we don't have.
Please to be explaining!

According to numerous reports, Lawwell was attempting to sign at least one midfielder until the point when the transfer window... you know.

Was he trying to spend money we don't have? Does he not know that this kind of things leadzzzzzz...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fatboab
Member Avatar
Just before the Dawn

QualityStreet1970
16 Sep 2016, 09:38 AM
fatboab
14 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM
Ess
14 Sep 2016, 12:19 PM
Last night showed what happens when you don't invest the money you have in the squad
we do invest the money we have. You want us to invest the money we don't have.
Please to be explaining!

According to numerous reports, Lawwell was attempting to sign at least one midfielder until the point when the transfer window... you know.

Was he trying to spend money we don't have? Does he not know that this kind of things leadzzzzzz...
as you well know, signing a player doesn't always mean spending money. From what we heard , we were trying to get a Loan Deal concluded on the last day of the window.
Celtic are a risk averse Company. Whether we agree or not, and most of us don't, we are not inclined to go into debt. Year end figures for last year didn't suggest we were hoarding cash. We will invest more money in the next two windows due to the CL monies, but we won't change the Board's habits .
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
remy mcswain
Member Avatar
Big in Canada
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
16 Sep 2016, 09:54 AM
QualityStreet1970
16 Sep 2016, 09:38 AM
fatboab
14 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Please to be explaining!

According to numerous reports, Lawwell was attempting to sign at least one midfielder until the point when the transfer window... you know.

Was he trying to spend money we don't have? Does he not know that this kind of things leadzzzzzz...
as you well know, signing a player doesn't always mean spending money. From what we heard , we were trying to get a Loan Deal concluded on the last day of the window.
Celtic are a risk averse Company. Whether we agree or not, and most of us don't, we are not inclined to go into debt. Year end figures for last year didn't suggest we were hoarding cash. We will invest more money in the next two windows due to the CL monies, but we won't change the Board's habits .
A loan deal would still have involved a fee and paying wages.

As usual, didn't quite get anything over the line. We aren't good enough in midfield for the CL. Not addressed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bobby Peru
Member Avatar
The Maestro

remy mcswain
16 Sep 2016, 10:11 AM
fatboab
16 Sep 2016, 09:54 AM
QualityStreet1970
16 Sep 2016, 09:38 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
as you well know, signing a player doesn't always mean spending money. From what we heard , we were trying to get a Loan Deal concluded on the last day of the window.
Celtic are a risk averse Company. Whether we agree or not, and most of us don't, we are not inclined to go into debt. Year end figures for last year didn't suggest we were hoarding cash. We will invest more money in the next two windows due to the CL monies, but we won't change the Board's habits .
A loan deal would still have involved a fee and paying wages.

As usual, didn't quite get anything over the line. We aren't good enough in midfield for the CL. Not addressed.
I'm sure if the Jozo deal hadn't fallen through we would have managed to get another player in.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
remy mcswain
16 Sep 2016, 10:11 AM
fatboab
16 Sep 2016, 09:54 AM
QualityStreet1970
16 Sep 2016, 09:38 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
as you well know, signing a player doesn't always mean spending money. From what we heard , we were trying to get a Loan Deal concluded on the last day of the window.
Celtic are a risk averse Company. Whether we agree or not, and most of us don't, we are not inclined to go into debt. Year end figures for last year didn't suggest we were hoarding cash. We will invest more money in the next two windows due to the CL monies, but we won't change the Board's habits .
A loan deal would still have involved a fee and paying wages.

As usual, didn't quite get anything over the line. We aren't good enough in midfield for the CL. Not addressed.
Everything about the way we conduct our business is half arsed

The end of the strachan era was a joke - with no investment despite DD promising the same
The mowbray term was to be fair to Pl just a disaster of TM making
NL was completely stuffed on investment with his team being repeatedly raided and re-investment not being made before the /John kennedyMan City/Norway/Delia experiment was foisted on him with removal of mjallby

Without rehashing Delia years that was an unmitigated disaster on pitch, on scouting etc and BR has had to start from that position

Having made the CL and having the certainty of the cash coming we should have had offers lined up which were effectively on our part subject to qualification and we should have got these over the line

They may not have been wanyama type successes in due course but as said previously we should invest when we know we have the cash coming, it will in a ll proability help on the pitch, it will also help augment transfer values of all players if it does help on the pitch

Attempting to stagger investment into january is bollocks cause we don't know what is available and how perilous our route will be next season

The only valid argument against investing is BR said no

I do not believe that for a second - everyone saw the quotes around time of second hapoel match and also saw how effin hopeless we were

Mismanagement again - a recurrent theme since 2008
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
16 Sep 2016, 09:54 AM
QualityStreet1970
16 Sep 2016, 09:38 AM
fatboab
14 Sep 2016, 12:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Please to be explaining!

According to numerous reports, Lawwell was attempting to sign at least one midfielder until the point when the transfer window... you know.

Was he trying to spend money we don't have? Does he not know that this kind of things leadzzzzzz...
as you well know, signing a player doesn't always mean spending money. From what we heard , we were trying to get a Loan Deal concluded on the last day of the window.
Celtic are a risk averse Company. Whether we agree or not, and most of us don't, we are not inclined to go into debt. Year end figures for last year didn't suggest we were hoarding cash. We will invest more money in the next two windows due to the CL monies, but we won't change the Board's habits .
And deciding NOT to spend money is as big a gamble as spending it.

If the Simunovic deal had gone through we would have been NET sellers this transfer window despite significant increased season ticket sales, increased sponsorship and CL football. Now if we can address all the weaknesses in the team and still be net sellers then great. But we didn't. and so often I have heard "we did all we could" from the board as another transfer window shuts and positions in the team have not been addressed.

In 2014/15 we bought the following
Denaeyer
Berget
Tonev
Wakaso
Gordon
Guidetti
Mackay-Stevens
Scepovic
Armstrong

Last season we signed
Ciftci
Boyata
Simunovic
Allan
Christie
Cole
Kazim-Richards
Sviatchenko
Blackett
Roberts
Janko

Of all the above, only one - Sviatchenko is a starter. Gordon, for all his faults, has been a good signing. Armstrong & Christie may yet prove to be good Celtic players. Roberts will probably fall into the same category as Denaeyer - very good but not hanging about. The rest failed and have either left or we're open to offers - including Simunovic.

That is shocking transfer policy. That is one of the main reasons we got the hiding we did on Tuesday. A total scatter-gun approach. The risk averse strategy you talk about also ensures that key positions are not addressed. In 2015, one of those priorities was a left back but after the Mitchell Dijk deal collapsed at the end of May (and I accept that this one was not Celtic's fault) that was basically it - no left back. The previous season we went into Europe with Tony Stokes as our lone striker. Now by all means point the finger at Ronnie for his system but the board surely could have helped him out and bought somebody more suitable?

This season has seen a change with Rodgers targeting players that could improve us and play to the system he wants. Dembele, Sinclair and Toure all made significant contributions this summer in Europe and we would probably have been in the Europa League this week if it weren't for buying them. We have to continue in this vein. I am not demanding that we put ourselves into unmanageable debt, but we also have to invest more in the team than we have over the previous two seasons. And I do hope we have seen an end to the last week bargain basement rummaging that saw us buy Bangura, Pukki, Scepovic and the like.

I would also say that many a PLC would have binned the CEO in charge of such a scatter-gun policy and one of appointing an untested manager in Deila when he was lined to be the assistant . But I fear that PL will only leave Celtic when he decides.




Edited by Corky Buczek, 16 Sep 2016, 12:23 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
paulfg42
Member Avatar
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Walter Sobchak
Member Avatar
NSSST NSSST NSSST
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Celtic have a £30million overdraft which as far as I can tell has been serving very little purpose in the past few years.

I'm not asking us to max it out but proper investment is required to sort out that midfield.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
HenryClarson
Member Avatar
Bolstering the duty of good faith
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
paulfg42
16 Sep 2016, 10:39 AM
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
That's the real problem. It's not that the club hasn't spent a lot of money. It certainly has. But too much of it has been wasted on duds, sick-notes and chancers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
as adam smith has said we are moving down the line on quality no matter which way we look at it but to preserve any chance of selling into the championship never mind the epl at top prices we have to perform in europe

to do that we have to invest at right level in right quantity and we haven't being doing that
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Willie Wonka
Member Avatar
Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM
paulfg42
16 Sep 2016, 10:39 AM
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
That's the real problem. It's not that the club hasn't spent a lot of money. It certainly has. But too much of it has been wasted on duds, sick-notes and chancers.
It also blows away the not invested comments.

Investment has been made, the balance sheets, as other have said, show there is no pot of cash unspent (other than the overdraft). That investment has been poorly targeted and managed. No manager (or DOF, pseudo or otherwise) gets every signing right but all our great deals have done is prop up a load of duds.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fatboab
Member Avatar
Just before the Dawn

sevilliano
16 Sep 2016, 11:02 AM
as adam smith has said we are moving down the line on quality no matter which way we look at it but to preserve any chance of selling into the championship never mind the epl at top prices we have to perform in europe

to do that we have to invest at right level in right quantity and we haven't being doing that
It's significant that since Rodgers arrived, our quality of signing has improved dramatically ( Sinclair, Toure, Dembele).
Perhaps we are seeing the end of Lawwell as a significant influence on this part of the club. If Rodgers didn't get the players he wanted on deadline day due to PL's inability to conclude the deals, then I'd imagine there will be repercussions.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM
paulfg42
16 Sep 2016, 10:39 AM
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
That's the real problem. It's not that the club hasn't spent a lot of money. It certainly has. But too much of it has been wasted on duds, sick-notes and chancers.
In terms of transfer fees it didn't really. Most of the above were loans, frees or under £500K. Indeed only Scepovic, Armstrong, Simunovic, Boyata and Sviatchenko cost more than £1M. (You might have to add Cifcti to that IF his fee was seven figures)

That does NOT however mean that when you add it up and include salaries it isn't a waste of money. It is. But during the same time we sold the likes of Forster, Van Dijk Matthews, Tony watt and Kayal. (As I understand Pukki's transfer fee was used to pay him off) SO in terms of NET, we were significant sellers in both years.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
wigwam
Member Avatar
Older than dirt
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM
paulfg42
16 Sep 2016, 10:39 AM
That's a real eye-opener on recent transfers, Corky.

I know every transfer is a bit of a gamble but whoever is responsible for targeting the majority of those players should be shown the door. At least the club are rapidly getting rid of many of the wasters we've signed but we've wasted huge amounts in recent seasons.
That's the real problem. It's not that the club hasn't spent a lot of money. It certainly has. But too much of it has been wasted on duds, sick-notes and chancers.
In terms of transfer fees it didn't really. Most of the above were loans, frees or under £500K. Indeed only Scepovic, Armstrong, Simunovic, Boyata and Sviatchenko cost more than £1M. (You might have to add Cifcti to that IF his fee was seven figures)

That does NOT however mean that when you add it up and include salaries it isn't a waste of money. It is. But during the same time we sold the likes of Forster, Van Dijk Matthews, Tony watt and Kayal. (As I understand Pukki's transfer fee was used to pay him off) SO in terms of NET, we were significant sellers in both years.
That will always be the case though. I agree that the money wasted on duds is the main issue. If you add all that up it will be a pretty significant amount.
As FB says, hopefully already addressed, but will take a couple of years / windows to get sorted.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Kingslim
69 and counting
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
fatboab
16 Sep 2016, 11:06 AM
sevilliano
16 Sep 2016, 11:02 AM
as adam smith has said we are moving down the line on quality no matter which way we look at it but to preserve any chance of selling into the championship never mind the epl at top prices we have to perform in europe

to do that we have to invest at right level in right quantity and we haven't being doing that
It's significant that since Rodgers arrived, our quality of signing has improved dramatically ( Sinclair, Toure, Dembele).
Perhaps we are seeing the end of Lawwell as a significant influence on this part of the club. If Rodgers didn't get the players he wanted on deadline day due to PL's inability to conclude the deals, then I'd imagine there will be repercussions.
Only thing is with the players we've moved on we've probably covered the five players we've brought in - so probably spent little or nothing overall.
Edited by Kingslim, 16 Sep 2016, 11:33 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
wigwam
16 Sep 2016, 11:28 AM
Corky Buczek
16 Sep 2016, 11:14 AM
HenryClarson
16 Sep 2016, 11:00 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
In terms of transfer fees it didn't really. Most of the above were loans, frees or under £500K. Indeed only Scepovic, Armstrong, Simunovic, Boyata and Sviatchenko cost more than £1M. (You might have to add Cifcti to that IF his fee was seven figures)

That does NOT however mean that when you add it up and include salaries it isn't a waste of money. It is. But during the same time we sold the likes of Forster, Van Dijk Matthews, Tony watt and Kayal. (As I understand Pukki's transfer fee was used to pay him off) SO in terms of NET, we were significant sellers in both years.
That will always be the case though. I agree that the money wasted on duds is the main issue. If you add all that up it will be a pretty significant amount.
As FB says, hopefully already addressed, but will take a couple of years / windows to get sorted.
But should the people responsible for the strategy over the past few years (poor transfer windows didn't begin the appointment of Deila - witness the previous two years as well) still be at the club ?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply