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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,983 Views)
MILLIGANS ISLAND
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....give us a glimmer......
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Lennon said the mcgeady money was reinvested in the team and i believe that was the case.
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One sharp cookie
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Getting on a bit
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Zurawski 7
2 Aug 2014, 09:51 AM
One sharp cookie
2 Aug 2014, 09:36 AM
Zurawski 7
2 Aug 2014, 09:23 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We didn't spend anything like £10 million. I'm sure Lennon said some of the fees quoted in the media for the likes of Juarez and Murphy were miles off.
· Investment in football personnel of £10.29m (2010: £13.64m).

http://www.investegate.co.uk/article.aspx?id=201108151100033581M
In an interview with the Herald in February 2012, Lennon confirmed the most he'd ever paid for a player was £1.6 million. So all the talk about £3.6 million for Juarez and £2.2 million for Hooper, etc, was nonsense. I dare say with add-ons and such like, there was the potential to pay more. But we didn't spend £10 million that summer, unless Lennon's lying.
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lynch1888
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http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/chris-sutton-celtic-want-success-3951079?

Great article from Sutton. Has hit every nail on the head. Apologies if already posted
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pauljames213
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Nobody is pocketing money surreptitiously, and not too many people are advocating spending money we don't have. Its the paucity of ambition that is annoying.

We bought Gary Hooper for about £2m and sold him for £5m ish. Problem is that we then took that money, had a rummage in the bargain bin and spent the majority of it on 3 players (Balde, Pukki and Griffiths) none of whom are good enough to play for Celtic so it was to all intents and purposes wasted. And if anyone at any point thought Griffiths was, why was he not purchased before the other 2? he was a known quantity and he was only down the road at Hibs so it was known how he performed in Scotland. He was bought as a panic measure when the other 2 hadnt worked out rather than as any part of a grand plan.

Considering we also took in money for Wanyama and Wilson that summer and qualified for the CL (by the skin of our teeth), we should have been able to buy a striker for £4-5m that would improve the team. A good striker can cover up a multitude of problems in a team, turning defeats to draws and draws to victories and we should be willing to spend to get one.

It's a risk to put all the eggs in one basket but its also a risk to buy tons of players who are probably not good enough and cross your fingers that one of them plays above themself.

For all the people saying we couldnt do that and they wouldnt come etc, I hate to bring them up but only a couple of years ago the huns (RIP) spent £4m on Jelavic (or promised to anyway :lol: ). The quality of him was crucial for them in big games (including a cup final winner against us and a tight title race). He scored a lot of goals and eventually because of their situation they sold him for a knockdown price but still made a slight profit.
Edited by pauljames213, 2 Aug 2014, 11:56 AM.
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casimiris
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lynch1888
2 Aug 2014, 11:05 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/chris-sutton-celtic-want-success-3951079?

Great article from Sutton. Has hit every nail on the head. Apologies if already posted
Good article. "Football is a simple game made complicated by coaches, players and supporters alike". Good to hear this from someone who has played the game.
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Lewis Hamilton's Biggest Fan
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Still Hooped 4 Life, no ye urni
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casimiris
2 Aug 2014, 12:03 PM
lynch1888
2 Aug 2014, 11:05 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/chris-sutton-celtic-want-success-3951079?

Great article from Sutton. Has hit every nail on the head. Apologies if already posted
Good article. "Football is a simple game made complicated by coaches, players and supporters alike". Good to hear this from someone who has played the game.
I could swear his comment when I read the first couple of paragraphs, the link was like an old interview with WGS. Almost word for word.
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Lewis Hamilton's Biggest Fan
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Still Hooped 4 Life, no ye urni
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Wrong thread
Edited by Lewis Hamilton's Biggest Fan, 2 Aug 2014, 01:14 PM.
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Zurawski 7
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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One sharp cookie
2 Aug 2014, 10:46 AM
Zurawski 7
2 Aug 2014, 09:51 AM
One sharp cookie
2 Aug 2014, 09:36 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
· Investment in football personnel of £10.29m (2010: £13.64m).

http://www.investegate.co.uk/article.aspx?id=201108151100033581M
In an interview with the Herald in February 2012, Lennon confirmed the most he'd ever paid for a player was £1.6 million. So all the talk about £3.6 million for Juarez and £2.2 million for Hooper, etc, was nonsense. I dare say with add-ons and such like, there was the potential to pay more. But we didn't spend £10 million that summer, unless Lennon's lying.
its in the accounts in black and white that we spent 10.29m that season. we are not cooking the books
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paranoid_and_proud
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pauljames213
2 Aug 2014, 11:52 AM
Nobody is pocketing money surreptitiously, and not too many people are advocating spending money we don't have. Its the paucity of ambition that is annoying.

We bought Gary Hooper for about £2m and sold him for £5m ish. Problem is that we then took that money, had a rummage in the bargain bin and spent the majority of it on 3 players (Balde, Pukki and Griffiths) none of whom are good enough to play for Celtic so it was to all intents and purposes wasted. And if anyone at any point thought Griffiths was, why was he not purchased before the other 2? he was a known quantity and he was only down the road at Hibs so it was known how he performed in Scotland. He was bought as a panic measure when the other 2 hadnt worked out rather than as any part of a grand plan.

Considering we also took in money for Wanyama and Wilson that summer and qualified for the CL (by the skin of our teeth), we should have been able to buy a striker for £4-5m that would improve the team. A good striker can cover up a multitude of problems in a team, turning defeats to draws and draws to victories and we should be willing to spend to get one.

It's a risk to put all the eggs in one basket but its also a risk to buy tons of players who are probably not good enough and cross your fingers that one of them plays above themself.

For all the people saying we couldnt do that and they wouldnt come etc, I hate to bring them up but only a couple of years ago the huns (RIP) spent £4m on Jelavic (or promised to anyway :lol: ). The quality of him was crucial for them in big games (including a cup final winner against us and a tight title race). He scored a lot of goals and eventually because of their situation they sold him for a knockdown price but still made a slight profit.
Good post and you're spot on with the reference to Jelavic, actually.

I can't see things getting much better in the short to medium term. This is the squad that we'll largely face the season with, I suspect, for better or worse.

It's depressing but I can't see any sort of fan discontent really troubling Lawwell and the rest of the Board given the club's relative financial strength and the fact that he's carved out a niche for himself as one of the, if not the, most powerful figures in the Scottish game. In many ways it's ironic that we laugh and take pride in Lawwell's influence in that regard; it probably makes it harder for regular fans to try and exert pressure on him when the Celtic team is devoid of all talent and there is no clear willingness on the CEO's part to address this by spending money.
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Lobey Dosser
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I fear we are in for a nothing season. Too many players apparently not wanted by Deila , and a new system that the rest will take time to adjust to. Maybe a season.

The Board, and Lawwell,in particular, will back the new man with some money, they can't afford to do otherwise, but only after we have flogged our best players, and the newbies I expect, will be of the same calibre as those who are left.

This new " system " , seems to be based on a traditional Celtic approach of ball on the deck , passing and attack. What's the magic of Deila's approach? A daily continental breakfast, ritual flogging, psychometric testing ? I really wish I knew.

The next few months, say until the end of October, will tell us if the rest if the season is to be a march towards bright sunlit uplands or a dismal trek towards the title with even less in the ground attendances.

Good luck Ronny, I fear you are going to need it.


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Ess
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Abooganza!
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Agree with much of the above.
In my view the board deserve criticism for failing to properly invest in the team.

The UCL group stage alone offers us a massive income stream.
We have a realistic route to the group stages, as champions, and this should never have been taken for granted.
All our resources should have been tailored towards the qualifiers.

We should be looking to build every year and hopefully pick up more points, getting out of the group would be a huge bonus but we should be looking to compete and improve.
Any profit from Europe should have been given to the manager - we balance the books but offer a better product.
Instead we post a bigger profit but watch a poorer product.

We have failed to ensure that our achievements do anything but affect the balance sheet, rather than improve the team

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McStay
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Ess
2 Aug 2014, 10:30 PM
Agree with much of the above.
In my view the board deserve criticism for failing to properly invest in the team.

The UCL group stage alone offers us a massive income stream.
We have a realistic route to the group stages, as champions, and this should never have been taken for granted.
All our resources should have been tailored towards the qualifiers.

We should be looking to build every year and hopefully pick up more points, getting out of the group would be a huge bonus but we should be looking to compete and improve.
Any profit from Europe should have been given to the manager - we balance the books but offer a better product.
Instead we post a bigger profit but watch a poorer product.

We have failed to ensure that our achievements do anything but affect the balance sheet, rather than improve the team

:thumbsup:
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guinness07
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I got an enforced absense on this very subject ...and I'll say it again. the shareholders want their dividend. DD is nothing more than a ruthless business man..end of. and like all businesses, when it dries up. they move on. PL is lauded by many here for his business acumen. he's been touted in the past with CE jobs in the EPL. but like most.if not all. Celtic men who've moved south. his limitations will be found out. This season is gonna be a F'n disaster. theres no doubt about it. we may/will win the league again..but at what price??? we've banked so much money from the CL and selling on our best players this past few seasons,I'm really convinced the Bored would "take a year out" and wait for Scotlands newest club to make its return before throwing anything that resembles money at the manager. FACT!
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kewlcelt
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guinness07
2 Aug 2014, 11:02 PM
I got an enforced absense on this very subject ...and I'll say it again. the shareholders want their dividend. DD is nothing more than a ruthless business man..end of. and like all businesses, when it dries up. they move on. PL is lauded by many here for his business acumen. he's been touted in the past with CE jobs in the EPL. but like most.if not all. Celtic men who've moved south. his limitations will be found out. This season is gonna be a F'n disaster. theres no doubt about it. we may/will win the league again..but at what price??? we've banked so much money from the CL and selling on our best players this past few seasons,I'm really convinced the Bored would "take a year out" and wait for Scotlands newest club to make its return before throwing anything that resembles money at the manager. FACT!
Even when Sevco get to the Premiership we still wont spend mate.
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CarlisleCelt
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guinness07
2 Aug 2014, 11:02 PM
I got an enforced absense on this very subject ...and I'll say it again. the shareholders want their dividend. DD is nothing more than a ruthless business man..end of. and like all businesses, when it dries up. they move on. PL is lauded by many here for his business acumen. he's been touted in the past with CE jobs in the EPL. but like most.if not all. Celtic men who've moved south. his limitations will be found out. This season is gonna be a F'n disaster. theres no doubt about it. we may/will win the league again..but at what price??? we've banked so much money from the CL and selling on our best players this past few seasons,I'm really convinced the Bored would "take a year out" and wait for Scotlands newest club to make its return before throwing anything that resembles money at the manager. FACT!
This says to me that the hun will be competing with us next year. Sickening.
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Edmontim
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This board's luck has now run out and we're no longer punching above our weight. In addition, they banked on their buy low sell high theory and they have substantially weakened the team.

If they are gonna get rid of FF and VVD they need to reinvest the money in the squad. Not just 2m of it.
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crtmmc
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paulfg42
29 Jul 2014, 08:24 PM
Wailer
29 Jul 2014, 08:17 PM
Quiet Assasin
29 Jul 2014, 07:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deephttps://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Z62R76G

They do love the match day experience. ;)

Took longer than the last one - do you want seats or not?

I hope everyone is putting quality of signings in as the answer to the last question.
Does anyone else feel they are being patronized by this guff and that all they are after is more money. I would not mind if I thought the purpose was to put better players on the park or to ensure our financial solvency. Unfortunately I get the feeling more and more that our financial model is more about providing the directors with a decent financial return and the football is secondary to that. Maybe just frustration but the feeling grows.
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padrepio
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the 2 main worries now are the speed we are downsizing at and the player level we are downsizing too.
Rather than a slow gradual financial downsize, we now seem to be going down the steep mountainside very fast, if you get my meaning. We are pulling our horns in very very quickly
as for player downsizing there seems even to be a huge drop in class from not than long ago at all Hooper>Balde, Ledley> Johansen, Forster>Gordon Samaras> Berget. I know there is pro and con arguments bout how good these players were but as i said previously the club has never been as cash rich in its history as it was at the beginning of last season and we spent next to nothing in transfers, if we never done it then can`t see any way we are going to be throwing cash at anything anytime soon. Any money we get in for the sale of Forster or VVD I would suspect the manager will get about 20% of it to spend(if he is lucky)
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wigwam
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Does anyone who understands accounts have a breakdown of our financial position over the last 3 or 4 years? In simple terms like

2010 -> turnover 60.5m loss 5m -> total debt 8m
2011 -> turnover 73.4m profit 9m -> total debt 6m

I know that might be asking for over simplification but given the amounts we have pulled in over the last few years in transfers and CL money, with people claiming 'it's all there in the accounts', my thinking is we surely must have made profit and lowered debt over the last few years? I know there are various accounting methods to avoid profit on paper (deferring? etc) to avoid tax, but have we really spunked all that money on just running the club and bringing in the likes of Bangura, Balde etc? It seems impossible. If we have then the model isn't actually working at all is it? It's just a guaranteed downward spiral really. I thought buying low and selling on would generate more to invest in players not just keep you going like a junkie ever more desperate for their next fix.

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crtmmc
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Barnsey
2 Aug 2014, 12:14 AM
bermbob
1 Aug 2014, 11:32 PM
TK57
1 Aug 2014, 07:41 PM
The board appointed the cheap option. A guy who didn't laugh when he was told what the budget was. Moyes, Keane and the other 'top men' were not interested. Lenny left because he told them that they had made an erse of it with Balde, Pukki and the Dutch sick note. He had asked for 2 players that would have cost £1.5 million more than those 3 Diddies.

We are now in a mess, with our supposed best players wanting away and a novice in charge to sort it out.( not his fault )

As it stands, with the possibility of Forster, VVD and others for the off, we have the possibility of that team winning feck all.
Sums up my feelings. PL has had success in the transfer market no doubt about that. My gripe with him is that the squad doesn't continually require the addition of loads of cheap prospects when the sum of the money spent could have bought a few players of better quality who would be first team starters. I think the success that PL has had in the transfer market clouds his judgement and fuels his ego when he should be taking a more critical look at the money he has wasted. Much more of the profit from the sale of our decent players should have been invested in their direct replacements, he has missed out on some good players because he refuses to pay the going rate and we end up with two or three numpties. I understand that we are inevitably regressing because if the financial constraints but I feel that PL has significantly sped up this process by not investing in better quality, when he leaves this won't be a part of his legacy that he will be mentioning on his CV.
Peter Lawwell is in a stronger position than the manager, has been for years, and that's a huge danger. I know he's getting paid more than Ronny ffs.
It reminds me of when Jock Brown was untouchable.
Fans could get any manager the sack, but not the beatified Peter. That's why he treats us like dirt transfer wise and constantly rips the piss safe in the knowledge that as long as his bonus remians intact he doesn't give a eff.
Do you really think this is down to Lawwell or does he just do others bidding?
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