Celtic Database at thecelticwiki.com
All
Celtic
World Cup 2018
Tickets/Travel
Wiki
General
Sport
F&D
Entertainment
Travel
Tipsters
Tech
| Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account. Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,596 Views) | |
| Adam Smith 11 | 28 Jul 2016, 02:48 PM Post #8521 |
|
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Read my posts. I said we will be slightly better off by possibly £500k. I also said because this is only a small amount in strategic terms it is not an argument not to do it. A decent squad player will cost around £10k a week when you add in all costs Taxes, bonuses, traveling accommodation etc. £500k though is not strategically important. If you look at Our accounts I think you will find we do invest more than a small amount, we maybe not have invested it wisely over the last few years and therefore a new strategy was required. Brendan Rodgers has been brought in as a change of strategy only 2 months ago. Before we look to change strategy again should we not give this strategy a chance? Edited by Adam Smith 11, 28 Jul 2016, 02:50 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 29 Jul 2016, 06:19 PM Post #8522 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Just noticed your reply to my last post, and the subsequent comments from other posters. Most of what needed to be said has been said. I'm still not sure where you would place responsibility for the declining standard of the football played at CP over recent years, and the decline in SB sales pre-Rodgers. Your last few posts make an aggressive case for Celtic remaining passive. You ask, "Will Celtic be better off by getting a cheaper" CEO--then you reply "No" to your own question! Quite remarkable. Firstly, the size of Lawwell's salary is almost irrelevant compared to the money we have lost under his stewardship. (It's hard to quantify the collateral damage, but it has been significant.) Secondly, how is it possible to predict the chain of events that would unfold under a new CEO?! I was almost going to ask you about the identity of the new executive that you factored into your calculations, but I don't want to drag this any further into the realm of absurdity. One quick footnote: your comment about dancing on Lawwell's grave was in pretty poor taste. It was also an ineffective attempt to derail the discussion--none of this is personal. Peter Lawwells will come and go. This is about what is best for Celtic. |
![]() |
|
| Adam Smith 11 | 29 Jul 2016, 07:56 PM Post #8523 |
|
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Not sure where you got that I said we would not be better off? I specifically said we maybe slightly better off. Read my post again. The question I asked was "would we be FAR better off"? I gave the answer "no"for the reasons I have stated. I then asked "will we be SLIGHTLY better off". I gave the answer "maybe" because I can't predict the future but we could definitely save some money. The blame for the past few years has already been apportioned partly to Deila who was sacked (or left) and partly to PL who in my opinion has had his wings clipped. I have stated that 3 times now if you read my posts. We have set down a new strategy by putting in place one of the top managers in the country to run the football department and therefore curtailed PL's role in the football side of the business. What does sacking him achieve other than a possible saving in salary if you take away any need for personal retribution which gains Celtic nothing in itself. If you think bringing in BR was a passive move then we have to agree to disagree, I think it was a massive statement that we are going to do things differently. As for the "dancing on his grave" phrase it is used regularly when unpopular people people get the sack, sorry if it offended you. However there are fans who would be absolutely delighted to see him go, which is a fair enough opinion. My point is will it achieve anything beyond a possible saving in salary? Hence I said we would maybe be slightly better off if we sacked him. Lastly you state that under Lawwell we have lost money over the last few years under his stewardship. This assumes that another CEO would have guided us to the CL. You then ask how it would be possible to predict the outcome of a new CEO which I haven't done (I said maybe) but you just did with the above statement. You can't have it both ways. Edited by Adam Smith 11, 29 Jul 2016, 09:11 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 29 Jul 2016, 09:31 PM Post #8524 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Sorry about the misquote. You did indeed ask if we would be "far better off by getting a cheaper version of Lawwell." Then you answered yourself with a definite "No." So my original point still stands, Nostradamus. Apology accepted for the "dance on his grave" comment. Not sure why you then felt the need to a wee remark about the "need for personal retribution" against Lawwell. (Is that what the youngsters call "trolling"?) I certainly did point out that the last few years of Lawwell has overseen a decline in SB sales, and in the standard of football at CP; we have also done very badly in the transfer market; and repeatedly failed to get into the CL proper. You say I assumed that another CEO would have taken us into the group stages of the CL. No such assumption was made--I do not share your ability to predict the future with certainty. Sorry, but I think that last wayward allegation just violated an old Kerrydale Street rule: "posters can only have 11 straw men on the park at any given time." |
![]() |
|
| Adam Smith 11 | 29 Jul 2016, 09:54 PM Post #8525 |
|
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
You need to get a thicker skin if you think that is trolling. You said you wanted his head on a spike - that sounds a bit like someone seeking retribution to me. I'm sure you don't mean it literally so not sure why you are so tetchy about others phraseology. I stand by the statement that we would not be far better off if he was sacked. You have not said what benefits PL being sacked would bring. We have a new manager in place and a CEO who has a proven track record of running the other parts off the business quite well when he was not diverted by being a de facto DOF. So give me your answers. What would a new CEO do differently that would make us far better off? You said that I was.advocating passiveness after one of the boldest moves the Celtic board has made in years, do you stand by this? You continually say that PL has cost us a fortune, the underlying assumption in that assertion is that you are predicting that you can see a counter factual history where another CEO did better. Usually I wouldn't bother about this but again you seem to be quite tetchy about others doing it. So are you still certain another CEO would have done better? Nostradamus Edited by Adam Smith 11, 29 Jul 2016, 10:40 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 30 Jul 2016, 06:28 AM Post #8526 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I think you've got to the crux of the matter: I'm not the one who thinks he can predict the future with absolute certainty, as you did when you declared that Celtic would not be far better off with a new, cheaper CEO. Who (apart from yourself) could possibly tell tell what would happen to Celtic with a new CEO in charge?! If the new guy got things back on track, confidence would breed more confidence; just as failure has bred more failure in successive years under Lawwell. No-one in their right mind would insist that we have to be far better off--that's just yet another straw man argument from you, I'm afraid. There are no guarantees in football--I think Celtic supporters are just looking for better performances on the park, and an end to Lawwell and Park's incoherent signing policy. (Which includes Lawwell's mystifying decision to upgrade Deila from assistant coach to manager.) We seem to agree that having Lawwell as Celtic's de facto DoF was counter-productive; neither of us know how that came about, or exactly how decisions were made while he was in that role. Lawwell either grabbed the DoF role for himself, or he was co-erced into taking it. Either way, he was happy to cash those bonus cheques while presiding over our decline on the park. (For the avoidance of doubt [!], I'm not absolving Dermot Desmond of blame for the Deila/Lawwell farce.) What should a new CEO do differently? That's hard to say without knowing exactly what kind of role Dermot Desmond has given Celtic's new manager in the running of the club. But job number one for the new bhoy in the boardroom would simply be, don't repeat the mistakes of the recent past. If the duties of Celtic's CEO have just been significantly reduced, the message should be, don't repeat the mistakes of the recent past, while the remuneration should be less than 50% of what PL was getting. Being right next door to the most over-inflated football market in the world isn't an ideal situation; however, the EPL can't scoop up every bit of the talent from every European league every year. So we're in a position where we can buy foreign players and introduce them to British football (while also giving them European experience), thus reducing the risk for potential buyers down south--as the Wanyama deal (among others) proved, that can be worth a lot of money. I'm not suggesting that we should adopt a revolving-door policy in the transfer market--but we should be able to sell to the EPL whenever we want/need to. Our inability to do this over recent years cannot be down to bad luck alone--no excuses needed, it's just not good enough. Peter Lawwell, come on down! You seem to share Lawwell's "nothing ventured, nothing gained" attitude to the business of football. Fair enough--I'm sure there are circumstances in which a that approach works. But we all know where Lawwell's vision (sic) took us--Dermot Desmond had to step in and hire a new manager to rebuild the team, boost season ticket sales and spare your boy from the growing anger of the Celtic support. The fact that you called the Rodgers' hiring "one of the boldest moves the Celtic board has made in years" makes me wonder why on earth I'm still typing away here. The board?! I can't even remember the last time anybody accused the Celtic board of making a significant decision. The fact that we're even discussing would suggest that this is one of those "agree to differ" moments. Who knows how long it will be before Brendan Rodgers manages to clear out Deila and Lawwell's dead wood, and give us the Celtic team he has in mind--once again, there are no guarantees in football. It's just good to have a football man calling the shots again. [BTW, when I mentioned "trolls," I wasn't referring to bad language or abuse. No problem on that front. ]
|
![]() |
|
| Adam Smith 11 | 30 Jul 2016, 08:55 AM Post #8527 |
|
Contract up for renewal, now on a diet and trying harder.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
"Your boy" what is that about? You really are personal about PL aren't you? This is leading you into a mindset of you are either for or against on this subject with no in between allowed. You have somehow managed to totally misrepresent my ambivalence to PL ( as stated numerous times ) into he is my boy. You need to either show the evidence of where I have defended him ( I'll save you the time if you want , outside your head I haven't) or ask yourself the question as to whether or not you are actually capable of having a rational debate on this subject anymore? You have decided what you want my argument to be (defender of my boy) so that you can argue with it rather than meet it on it's own terms. The board ( yes the board, get your tinfoil hat off and let's keep things rational ) made the decision to radically change the organisation with the appointment of BR but you seem to give them little credit for this or don't think they have went far enough. I choose to see a lot of good on what has happened in the last few months, I don't need heads on spikes I just want to see how this evolves and whether PL's undoubted commercial and marketing skills fit in with the new organisation/strategy. If not he needs to go. If I move a good right back to centre back and he bombs I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, I find out if he is still a good right back. I'm prepared to give the board the time to see how the new organisation/strategy unfolds over the next 12 months. This is not "nothing ventured nothing gained" tactics, I think most people see the appointment of BR as a bold move/venture. As for " Your boy". Let's leave that patter to the playground. Edited by Adam Smith 11, 30 Jul 2016, 09:24 AM.
|
![]() |
|
| paulfg42 | 30 Jul 2016, 10:22 AM Post #8528 |
|
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The appointment of BR suggested a change of strategy. Our dealings in the transfer market since then would suggest not. |
![]() |
|
| andybhoy65 | 30 Jul 2016, 12:19 PM Post #8529 |
|
Occasional Substitute
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The strategy was to bring in a big name manager to sell season tickets. It worked. |
![]() |
|
| Quiet Assasin | 30 Jul 2016, 01:41 PM Post #8530 |
|
..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm sure the Celtic board would have loved that but from Rodgers' point of view, that strategy would give his reputation a total tanking. For that reason I'm still hopeful that some decent deals are there to be done.
|
![]() |
|
| Pussyfoot | 30 Jul 2016, 03:20 PM Post #8531 |
|
À la mode if you will
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm not bemused at all, he has hit the nail on the head. Edited by Pussyfoot, 30 Jul 2016, 03:23 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 30 Jul 2016, 05:01 PM Post #8532 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Well that's a bit embarrassing. You have thrown your toys out the pram due to a minor misunderstanding. "Your boy" is merely a casual bit of vernacular that means the same as the Irish phrase "yer man" (or "yer mon"). |
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 30 Jul 2016, 05:09 PM Post #8533 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Agreed. The one thing we have going for us right now is Brendan Rodgers' ego. He has come to Celtic to restore his reputation; and if he manages to do so over the next few seasons, both parties will benefit. This wasn't a decision that was made casually--Rodgers would have had a lot of very specific question for Desmond, and he must have been satisfied with the answers he got. I can't imagine Rodgers letting himself be undermined at this critical juncture in his career--we'll have to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks. |
![]() |
|
| auldbhoy1975 | 30 Jul 2016, 05:39 PM Post #8534 |
|
Occasional Substitute
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
If Rodgers doesn't get the backing he may have been promised, he'll walk and say why I say may as we don't know under what conditions he took the role |
![]() |
|
| Big_Bobo_Balde | 4 Aug 2016, 10:29 AM Post #8535 |
|
Lizzie's Lothario
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I'm sure our CEO was a tad uncomfortable on the 93 minute... |
![]() |
|
| Forza | 4 Aug 2016, 10:38 AM Post #8536 |
|
Considering retirement
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It's not funny anymore. This mob need to deliver a signing or two that gives the manager serious options for the Play Off Round. Any further pissing about and I fear we'll be found wanting. |
![]() |
|
| georgiesleftpeg | 4 Aug 2016, 11:32 AM Post #8537 |
|
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What Splob patently fails tae get, is the value of momentum in driving a football club/team forward. What should be happening, for a club of our size right here/right now, is that Sinclair should be signed, and making his debut at Tynecastle on Sunday. That lot are likely to be waiting to see if we get lucky, in tomorrows draw, before making any kind of move
|
![]() |
|
| QualityStreet1970 | 4 Aug 2016, 11:47 AM Post #8538 |
|
First-team starter
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Forgive my ignorance/bad memory, but what is SPLOB again? I remember "sharp-suited man" (those were the days), but it all goes a bit hazy after that. |
![]() |
|
| Big_Bobo_Balde | 4 Aug 2016, 11:49 AM Post #8539 |
|
Lizzie's Lothario
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Sir Peter Lover Of Bonuses
|
![]() |
|
| Cardross Bhoy | 4 Aug 2016, 11:51 AM Post #8540 |
![]()
Club Captain
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Is that what it is? Well it's pish and should never be used again
|
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
|
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)



]


8:47 AM Jul 11