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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,606 Views)
Torquemada
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auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
They used that form of words precisely to STOP people deliberately muddying the waters between "club" and "company" in the way Chuckie Verde and Neil Doncaster did. It's a legal catch-all.

Edit: Unless CQN and James Forrest have deliberately misrepresented the Uefa letter, Uefa regards the old huns as dead and Sevco as a different club.
Edited by Torquemada, 10 Jul 2016, 03:44 PM.
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auldbhoy1975
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Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
They used that form of words precisely to STOP people deliberately muddying the waters between "club" and "company" in the way Chuckie Verde and Neil Doncaster did. It's a legal catch-all.
fair enough, makes sense


chuckie verde :lol:

at the end of the day though, their next title will still be billed as 55 by the SPFL even if UEFA apply the correct co-efficient for them when they reach european competition again. That's all that matters to them
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DhenBhoy
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Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
They used that form of words precisely to STOP people deliberately muddying the waters between "club" and "company" in the way Chuckie Verde and Neil Doncaster did. It's a legal catch-all.
It's no wonder solicitors make so much money.

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Wailer
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auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:47 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
They used that form of words precisely to STOP people deliberately muddying the waters between "club" and "company" in the way Chuckie Verde and Neil Doncaster did. It's a legal catch-all.
fair enough, makes sense


chuckie verde :lol:

at the end of the day though, their next title will still be billed as 55 by the SPFL even if UEFA apply the correct co-efficient for them when they reach european competition again. That's all that matters to them
We'll see.....in about 15 years or so.
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DhenBhoy
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auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:47 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
They used that form of words precisely to STOP people deliberately muddying the waters between "club" and "company" in the way Chuckie Verde and Neil Doncaster did. It's a legal catch-all.
fair enough, makes sense


chuckie verde :lol:

at the end of the day though, their next title will still be billed as 55 by the SPFL even if UEFA apply the correct co-efficient for them when they reach european competition again. That's all that matters to them
There is a possibility that the authorities may have been forced to rethink by then. Depends how much fight fans, of football in Scotland, have in them?
Edited by DhenBhoy, 10 Jul 2016, 03:52 PM.
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Sheshoon
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Maybe the Requisitioners are stalling release of the actual letter from UEFA.......until Tuesday! :suspect:
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auldbhoy1975
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DhenBhoy
10 Jul 2016, 03:51 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:47 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepor
fair enough, makes sense


chuckie verde :lol:

at the end of the day though, their next title will still be billed as 55 by the SPFL even if UEFA apply the correct co-efficient for them when they reach european competition again. That's all that matters to them
There is a possibility that the authorities may have been forced to rethink by then. Depends how much fight fans, of football in Scotland, have in them?
I suppose we could see what the outcome, if any, of the Res 12 fight may be

If SFA/SPFL are shafted by Uefa then it may be difficult for them to continue the same club myth

although, as I've said, I don't think anything will happen and they will continue to be treated as the original rangers unfortunately
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Auldyin
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DhenBhoy
10 Jul 2016, 03:51 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:47 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepor
fair enough, makes sense


chuckie verde :lol:

at the end of the day though, their next title will still be billed as 55 by the SPFL even if UEFA apply the correct co-efficient for them when they reach european competition again. That's all that matters to them
There is a possibility that the authorities may have been forced to rethink by then. Depends how much fight fans, of football in Scotland, have in them?
THIS.

Do enough care enough to say enough?
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Auldyin
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DhenBhoy
10 Jul 2016, 03:39 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
Not in a legal missive where they are giving a reply.

The Club must be a "legal entity "as far UEFA are concerned and the CLUB are the licence applicants.

There was no other "holding company" prior to Sevco's RIFC.

Club of associated members - Incorporated - Limited company (club and company are synonymous) - Public company (still same legal entity) - being liquidated.

There is no separation of a company/club's legal entity, nor do UEFA recognise any such a separation. They do now recognise holding companies which is entirely irrelevant.

So why would a professional solicitor mean "or" with a slash, which btw is not a normal interpretation of a slash it's usually interpreted as "and/or" as in "an informal conjunction used to link alternatives or words denoting or describing a dual (or multiple) function or nature".

Given the context of the whole piece, written by a professional, in response to a legal query .. do you really think he is using an ambiguous interpretation of "or"?




Read back to explanation of Article 12.

No dubiety. UEFA cannot afford it because if they did Article 12 would lose its purpose which is to stop clubs or clubs with a contractual relationship with a company dumping debt and carrying on as before.

If UEFA allowed the holding company approach ( Southampton tried it and told to gtf by FA then Article 12 would be easily circumvented.

This was true long before RFC went bust but UEFA never said before that the principle behind Aricle 12 applied to the club at Ibrox. They only ever pointed at their rules.
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Auldyin
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remy mcswain
10 Jul 2016, 11:37 AM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 11:37 AM
remy mcswain
10 Jul 2016, 11:31 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
can you expand on that :lol:
Complete pish
Thank you Remy. (Words I thought I'd never say ;)
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stevie21
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DhenBhoy
10 Jul 2016, 03:16 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:07 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 02:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Which part of "a new club/company which sought entry into the fourth tier of Scottish football" are you having difficulty with?
This!!

I have no idea how a simple slash can cause so much confusion and panic.

Edit: Haud on ... mibbe it means "club per company" or "club as a fraction of a company?
Whoever is questioning it, maybe he/she realises a slash might mean one or the other :ph43r:

In all seriousness I dont think there's any ambiguity.
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Willie Wonka
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auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 03:17 PM
club or company

couldn't that be left open to interpretation?
Eh, no.
Clear as a bell.
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Wee Ed KTF
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A “new club/company”

Patently obvious meaning. :thumbsup:
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auldbhoy1975
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Wee Ed KTF
10 Jul 2016, 06:32 PM
A “new club/company”

Patently obvious meaning. :thumbsup:
I missed the Celticblog article

Having now read it, it explains the club/company useage well.
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CHR15
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auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 06:51 PM
Wee Ed KTF
10 Jul 2016, 06:32 PM
A “new club/company”

Patently obvious meaning. :thumbsup:
I missed the Celticblog article

Having now read it, it explains the club/company useage well.
Sevco fan/zombie. Rangers fan/hun.

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CHR15
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DhenBhoy
10 Jul 2016, 03:16 PM
Torquemada
10 Jul 2016, 03:07 PM
auldbhoy1975
10 Jul 2016, 02:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Which part of "a new club/company which sought entry into the fourth tier of Scottish football" are you having difficulty with?
This!!

I have no idea how a simple slash can cause so much confusion and panic.

Edit: Haud on ... mibbe it means "club per company" or "club as a fraction of a company?
The slash my father wore
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OverAndOver
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Auldyin
9 Jul 2016, 08:06 PM
OverAndOver
9 Jul 2016, 11:46 AM
First of all what a fantastic effort from the Resolution 12 guys - sheer perseverance paid off - a great deal of gratitude is owed to you as i fear if this matter had been left with the board to deal with it would not have seen the light of day.

Secondly this passage is taken from the statement at 6pm on CQN last night

However, in terms of accountability, the full UEFA response, when set against and contrasted with other information in the public domain, previous replies and public statements from the SFA, has raised further significant and as yet unanswered questions that shareholders feel should be drawn to the attention of UEFA Club Financial Control Body, the SFA (who said they would cooperate with any enquiry/investigation by UEFA) and Celtic, whom UEFA invited to take up directly.


If i am reading this correctly it states that UEFA have invited Celtic to get involved directly - if Auldyin is about - has this happened ? and if not is it likely to happen in the near future ?


The final point in the Update on CQN is that once UEFA have been written to Res12 will have met it's responsibilities to shareholders in taking the matter to UEFA CFCB.

To complete it Celtic have a decision to make based on the points made and that decision will be a more informed one if they wait until the full shareholders concerns have been articulated.

So it would be best if the Res12 baton was carried over the line before being handed over.

Taking it too early could be a fumble.

thanks for the reply :thumbsup:

and once again for what you guys have done :clap:
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Mackin
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8 Jul 2016, 08:47 PM
Sunny Jim Young
8 Jul 2016, 08:43 PM
Quiet Assasin
8 Jul 2016, 08:08 PM
So did they actually answer the issue as to why old Huns were allowed to play in Europe and what is happening with the SFA? I thought that was the whole point and not getting one up on the current Huns who will refuse to believe it anyway
My take on it is that UEFA are acknowledging that they broke the rules in 2011/12. But they had been eliminated from Europe by the time the irregularity was discovered. Sanctions would have been taken against them in 2012/13 but by that time they didn't exist.
That's exactly the situation.
Something has been missed in the 5 pages following this post, but we know they broke the rules in 11/12. They went into administration in February 2012 with a tax debt and would have been ineligible in 12/13 if they hadnt died. Surely the issue is around the end of the season 10/11 when they were granted the license for 11/12? This hasnt been answered by UEFA at all, unless its in the mythical letter which hasnt been published.
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Auldyin
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Mackin
11 Jul 2016, 10:50 AM
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8 Jul 2016, 08:47 PM
Sunny Jim Young
8 Jul 2016, 08:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's exactly the situation.
Something has been missed in the 5 pages following this post, but we know they broke the rules in 11/12. They went into administration in February 2012 with a tax debt and would have been ineligible in 12/13 if they hadnt died. Surely the issue is around the end of the season 10/11 when they were granted the license for 11/12? This hasnt been answered by UEFA at all, unless its in the mythical letter which hasnt been published.
Well spotted. One of the points clarification is needed on.

At what point was it realised there was an overdue payable and if it was Sherriff Officers calling then how was that allowed to happen when just 6 weeks before a submission was made and passed by the SFA that there were no overdure payable.

One way how it came about requires false statements and non disclosure and we know who was in the driving seat in June 2011.

Read James Forres recent blog for more.
Edited by Auldyin, 11 Jul 2016, 11:55 AM.
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Auldyin
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Who guards the guards?

A thoughtful article from E Tims.

http://etims.net/?p=9359

In a way Res12 is pioneering making SFA acountable, building the capacity to do so as it rolls along.

But it's a slow shoogly train and when it has reached its station something more efficient that will remove the distrust in football governance is need.
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