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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,985 Views)
SaMule
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NSFW
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leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 01:03 PM
SaMule
1 Aug 2014, 12:50 PM
leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 12:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Wow, Steve Clarke would have guaranteed us CL qualification, I didn't know that :rubeyes:
Clearly a board member.
I'm more bored than board to be honest.

Steve Clarke's such an incredible manager that he's currently out of work after getting the sack from West Brom. I wouldn't have been against his appointment, but I'm not dumb enough to think he'd have guaranteed us CL football any more than Deila or just about any other manager that we had a reasonable chance of getting.
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zombieslayer35
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Willie Wonka
1 Aug 2014, 12:59 PM
zombieslayer35
1 Aug 2014, 12:54 PM
Hooped 4 Life
1 Aug 2014, 11:13 AM

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I am not Broonies biggest fan but we missed his leadership on the pitch the other night. Mulgrew is not a leader. His shampoo stained boxers the other night proved that.

When it was becoming obvious the "tactics" weren't working that is where you want your captain to lead by example. Tell the manager it isn't working and it needs changed. If the manager continues on the destructive path then he asks for everything he gets.

Did anyone have the balls to say look boss this isn't working and this is why?

Come to think of it we really have no other leaders in the team do we?
not sure theres any in the dugout either.
Unfortunately true.
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One sharp cookie
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I was underwhelmed when it looked like Steve Clarke was the front runner. But, if we get papped out on Wednesday, there will definitely be folk asking why we overlooked experienced coaches and made the most left-field appointment in our history (and that's saying something after Barnes, Brady and Venglos).
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Pat McGatt
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SaMule
1 Aug 2014, 02:11 PM
leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 01:03 PM
SaMule
1 Aug 2014, 12:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Clearly a board member.
I'm more bored than board to be honest.

Steve Clarke's such an incredible manager that he's currently out of work after getting the sack from West Brom. I wouldn't have been against his appointment, but I'm not dumb enough to think he'd have guaranteed us CL football any more than Deila or just about any other manager that we had a reasonable chance of getting.
I don't think it's "dumb" to suggest that Clarke might have been more tactically astute than Deila was the other night. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have gone gung ho for 90 minutes, chopped the team around and been left needing three goals in the second leg of a penultimate qualifier. I'm saying this a someone fully supportive of Ronny being given time too.
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katlegend
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CaltonBhoy1967
1 Aug 2014, 01:02 PM
leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 12:46 PM
Wee Red
1 Aug 2014, 10:58 AM
Is there a football performance bonus for the scouts, like John Park?
Is there a player profit turnaround bonus for John Park?
Which incentive or combination gets John Park the highest wages.
Similar questions for Peter Lawwell, and the coaching staff.
Are we set up for footballing or financial success, what pays the best rewards?
Unless footballing success reaps the best rewards for all the employees, we are hobbling our progress.
Nobody at a football club should get bonuses solely on financial prudence. For me, footballing success should make up 60-70% of any crucial employee bonuses.
The danger may be that Lawwell and/or Park and the coach/manager rewards are too heavily biased toward financial results.
I'm sure that the accounts, objective as they are, will agree with you when the 2014/15 figures are tallied WR.

The £17m that Steve Clarke would have delivered through CL qualification (cost £1.5m is a net £15.5m revenue gain)

v

The £3m that the Ronny Deila is likely to deliver through an abject EL campaign (cost £0.75m? is a net £2.25m revenue gain)
This is the bit where Lawwell's gambling can come home to roost.

A bit of decent investment in two/three players totalling a max of £6million (which is available no problem despite any utterances from within otherwise) would freshen things up ,instill competition for places and at least get you by Legia (who were mince and there for the taking imo - First twenty minutes when we went at them their defence and keeper were all over the shop) - Get into the CL proper and you are guaranteed £15m - £22m before we get papped out.

At the end of the day irrespective of what happens and if we don't get CL qualification our turnover will be no where near £60m (as previously) he will still get his £1m plus feck knows what in share and share options despite feckin' up.I run my own business if I feck up I carry the can similarly if you work for somebody and don't carry out your work/ mess up you should be getting your baws toed.

As Kevtic said to me years ago "Lawwell is in a comfort zone" and over the years he has built this D of F role around it without having the reins pulled in on him.It was patently obvious why Lennon chucked it and equally it is patently obvious why Deila has got the gig.

We are a club without ambition. :(
That we are a club without ambition has been clear for a while now. The Fletcher/Flood window in 2009 set my alarm bells ringing & without doubt it was a damaging window for the club. The board then allowed a Rangers team on their deathbeds to win not one, two, but 3 consecutive titles that should have been well out of their reach. Two of these titles came with guaranteed CL jackpots.
The appointment of Neil Lennon as a rookie manager was also a clear sign of the boards intentions. Much as I admired Neil as a player , and knew he was a true Celt, he would never have been considered had we any real ambition. I decided I wouldn't renew my season ticket if he got the job as it was a clear statement of the Club's intents. This has proved to be the case.
The transfer window last Summer was just a total disgrace. The manager wanted Finnbogason, who we could easily afford, but we got two figures of ridicule instead because they were a lot cheaper. The striker the manager wanted is now in La Liga & only Suarez & Ronaldo scored more league goals than him last season in the whole if Europe.
This summers managerial appointment shows were still on the same road, as do the two signings that we've made so far.
When I read a team sheet these days I just cringe at most of the names on it. How can any of us accept this as a Celtic team ?
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Perry Whyte
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The board are aware the the prize pot for the CL group stages doubles as of next season and are planning appropriately, yes?
Edited by Perry Whyte, 1 Aug 2014, 03:03 PM.
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nakasboots
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katlegend
1 Aug 2014, 02:50 PM
CaltonBhoy1967
1 Aug 2014, 01:02 PM
leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 12:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This is the bit where Lawwell's gambling can come home to roost.

A bit of decent investment in two/three players totalling a max of £6million (which is available no problem despite any utterances from within otherwise) would freshen things up ,instill competition for places and at least get you by Legia (who were mince and there for the taking imo - First twenty minutes when we went at them their defence and keeper were all over the shop) - Get into the CL proper and you are guaranteed £15m - £22m before we get papped out.

At the end of the day irrespective of what happens and if we don't get CL qualification our turnover will be no where near £60m (as previously) he will still get his £1m plus feck knows what in share and share options despite feckin' up.I run my own business if I feck up I carry the can similarly if you work for somebody and don't carry out your work/ mess up you should be getting your baws toed.

As Kevtic said to me years ago "Lawwell is in a comfort zone" and over the years he has built this D of F role around it without having the reins pulled in on him.It was patently obvious why Lennon chucked it and equally it is patently obvious why Deila has got the gig.

We are a club without ambition. :(
That we are a club without ambition has been clear for a while now. The Fletcher/Flood window in 2009 set my alarm bells ringing & without doubt it was a damaging window for the club. The board then allowed a Rangers team on their deathbeds to win not one, two, but 3 consecutive titles that should have been well out of their reach. Two of these titles came with guaranteed CL jackpots.
The appointment of Neil Lennon as a rookie manager was also a clear sign of the boards intentions. Much as I admired Neil as a player , and knew he was a true Celt, he would never have been considered had we any real ambition. I decided I wouldn't renew my season ticket if he got the job as it was a clear statement of the Club's intents. This has proved to be the case.
The transfer window last Summer was just a total disgrace. The manager wanted Finnbogason, who we could easily afford, but we got two figures of ridicule instead because they were a lot cheaper. The striker the manager wanted is now in La Liga & only Suarez & Ronaldo scored more league goals than him last season in the whole if Europe.
This summers managerial appointment shows were still on the same road, as do the two signings that we've made so far.
When I read a team sheet these days I just cringe at most of the names on it. How can any of us accept this as a Celtic team ?
re: Finnbogason, I remember a few posters on here saying how anyone can top the Dutch scoring charts and it's not a reasonable barometer of a player. He was approx £3/4M at that point.
Then after another storming season and the figure was £4-6M, many laughed that a two season wonder :ponder: was not value at that price and it would be a ridiculous gamble to even consider that kind of outlay.

He's now off to La Liga in a £7M deal. :ffs:

Dodged a bullet there Peter, well played. :thumbsup:
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Glorious_1967
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leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 01:17 PM
Glorious_1967
1 Aug 2014, 01:06 PM
leangreen
1 Aug 2014, 12:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As much as I'd like to agree but hiring a more known/experienced coach doesn't equal automatic qualification for the group stages.
Correct, but Steve Clarke is not among the 80% of experienced managers who would not achieve it.
Based on what? Complete speculation :thumbsup:
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Winds of Change CSC
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Franakamura
1 Aug 2014, 01:33 PM
Chickens coming home to roost for Lawell et al.

It's no coincidence the results in Europe have been getting worse as the downsizing continues.

Two season ago we qualified for the champions league with which was arguably Lennon's best squad. That year we also competed, made it to the last 16.

Last season we struggled through the qualifiers, made it to the group and took a bit of a doing in the group stages.

Now we are struggling to get into the qualifying play off.

Two years ago we had a settled squad that included the likes of Wanyama, Hooper, Ledley, Brown, Forster, Izaguirre and some more as key players.

Last summer saw the departures of Wanyama and Hooper, two key components of the previous years squad, irrespective if what anyone says. They weren't replaced with the same quality, if at all. Hooper wasn't even replaced until January. In fairness we are only really minus Joe Ledley at this point this year, however he was reliable and could be trusted.

Away from the downsizing the manager has to take his share of the blame which he seems willing to do, square pegs round holes and all that.

A major worry of mine is lets say Forster goes and VVD goes. Forster is already replaced with a freebie, who replaces VVD, another project.

Lawell and co need to see the bigger picture here and realise a wee bit of spending has to be done to accumulate. Very unfair to expect the manager, whoever he is, to continually qualify for the champions league based on the existing model.
This.

That squad two years ago had a fair amount of potential. We should have tried to enhance it not rip it apart.

selling Wanyama, Hooper & Wilson and replacing them with mediocre dross was a massive mistake. VVD was brought in to partner Wilson not replace him. When Wilson was allowed to leave why wasn't a replacement signed? it was a shocking state of affairs.

Despite this hatchet job we still managed to get into the group stages with the final kick of the ball, did we then go and make some prudent investment? did we hell.

Since this debacle we have continued to downsize losing high earners like Ledley & Samaras for next to nothing and not providing any replacements.

This close season has been far worse then I could ever of imagined, a total lack of investment and the prospect of yet more players leaving, it is nothing short of criminal. We now have projects in the dugout to mirror the ones on the pitch. it's a woeful squad, weak in just about every area with an excess of overpaid dross on the sidelines. The players signed recently demonstrate that our scouting department is also wide of the mark when it comes to identify what we actually need.

Lawwell supports Celtic PLC not Celtic FC, he is by far & away the biggest problem we have. his time at the club is up, his policies are killing us on & off the park, I am sick to the back teeth of the man.

RD seems like a decent guy but it is already clear that the more influential members of our esteemed playing squad are grumbling at the new methods. It makes me cringe to think that I am talking about the likes of Stokes, Commons & Mulgrew as our more influential players FFS.

I was scunnered after that performance in midweek, now I am just becoming indifferent because I do not see this changing anytime soon.

It's soul destroying
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celtovik
I'm new. Be gentle.
It can't go on like this.

Buy cheap, sell high.

That is not working.

Our good players may go, no confidence at all that their quality will be replaced.

We are like a poker player who has a lucky win in the first round -- Hooper, Wanyama. (Scunthorpe!)

As the next rounds go by, the poor poker player reveals his lack of skill.

Keeps the same strategy, declining returns.

Bangura, Miku, the other one, Pukki. There are more.

Now we are chasing the pot with a bad set of cards.

And

Football requires a gamble.

Doesn't have to be like Sevco. But football is not a business like others.

We need to be more courageous in our signing policy, or we become a mediocrity. If we're not already.

Otherwise, what's the point?
Edited by celtovik, 1 Aug 2014, 07:15 PM.
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TK57
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The board appointed the cheap option. A guy who didn't laugh when he was told what the budget was. Moyes, Keane and the other 'top men' were not interested. Lenny left because he told them that they had made an erse of it with Balde, Pukki and the Dutch sick note. He had asked for 2 players that would have cost £1.5 million more than those 3 Diddies.

We are now in a mess, with our supposed best players wanting away and a novice in charge to sort it out.( not his fault )

As it stands, with the possibility of Forster, VVD and others for the off, we have the possibility of that team winning feck all.
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Dewey
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Antoninho
1 Aug 2014, 08:58 AM
Economic collapse over the last five years surely has something to do with it no?
It is more complicated than just economy. Top five in attendance in SPL 2013-2014: Celtic attendance rose .3% from 2012-13 numbers. Yet Hearts saw +7.3%, Aberdeen +34.4%, Hibs +5.1%, and DU +.7%. Lots of reasons for fans to stay away. Economy. League opposition. But, surely, on-field quality ranks among them. And that is what the board are responsible for.

I am not sure what is debatable here. The qualitative downsizing? Fan frustration? Short-term profiteering without wise reinvestment to keep the cycle going?

Regardless, we'll trounce the league for four-in-a-row. :thumbsup: Hopefully. :twitch:
Edited by Dewey, 1 Aug 2014, 08:01 PM.
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culchie
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The board are defo banking on the return of the hun (their fans not the club/company). This will probably add 10,000 season ticket holders along with two four man tent signings that will keep them going on salaries/bonuses for a while.
I was slated on here a couple of years back for suggesting when Lawell does go he will not return as a supporter. The way he is guiding things now he wouldn't have the brass neck to come near the place.
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murphio
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celtovik
1 Aug 2014, 07:14 PM
It can't go on like this.

Buy cheap, sell high.

There is no alternative. 15 years ago the club were 30m in debt (and rising) having funded Barnes and then O'Neill. And that was at a time when we could compete with Premiership clubs in terms of wages. We became so hamstrung, even back then with Champions League football, 60k fans every week and the run to Seville, certain transfer windows amounted to failed loan deals for Dwight Yorke. We simply have to look for value and when we find it we have to look at recouping our outlay - at least. Spending millions on players and allowing their contracts to expire is the path to bankruptcy.
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Gonga
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murphio
1 Aug 2014, 09:34 PM
celtovik
1 Aug 2014, 07:14 PM
It can't go on like this.

Buy cheap, sell high.

There is no alternative. 15 years ago the club were 30m in debt (and rising) having funded Barnes and then O'Neill. And that was at a time when we could compete with Premiership clubs in terms of wages. We became so hamstrung, even back then with Champions League football, 60k fans every week and the run to Seville, certain transfer windows amounted to failed loan deals for Dwight Yorke. We simply have to look for value and when we find it we have to look at recouping our outlay - at least. Spending millions on players and allowing their contracts to expire is the path to bankruptcy.
I think the term he is looking for is buy smart, sell high.
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murphio
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Gonga
1 Aug 2014, 09:37 PM
murphio
1 Aug 2014, 09:34 PM
celtovik
1 Aug 2014, 07:14 PM
It can't go on like this.

Buy cheap, sell high.

There is no alternative. 15 years ago the club were 30m in debt (and rising) having funded Barnes and then O'Neill. And that was at a time when we could compete with Premiership clubs in terms of wages. We became so hamstrung, even back then with Champions League football, 60k fans every week and the run to Seville, certain transfer windows amounted to failed loan deals for Dwight Yorke. We simply have to look for value and when we find it we have to look at recouping our outlay - at least. Spending millions on players and allowing their contracts to expire is the path to bankruptcy.
I think the term he is looking for is buy smart, sell high.
We have done OK. Yes, there has been failures but when you look at what we spent on Hooper, Mulgrew, Ledley, Stokes, Izzaguire, Forster, Wilson, Matthews, Wanyama, Lustig, Ambrose, Van Dijk...... it wasn't fortunes. We have been fairly smart, in all fairness.
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Broadsword
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Tony_bhoy7
1 Aug 2014, 01:28 PM
remy mcswain
1 Aug 2014, 01:26 PM
Tony_bhoy7
1 Aug 2014, 01:25 PM
The board have been asleep at the wheel for the last 18 months - 2 years. Selling players left right and centre with no idea how to replace them. Or letting a couple of good player's contracts just run down.

The only player that we've sold in the past two years that has been replaced is Wilson. And even his replacement looks like he's off. We could get proper hidings off a no-mark Premiership team this year (Hull).

Completely unacceptable.
VvD was bought to partner Wilson not replace him. We got lucky that VvD was able to adapt to playing left side.
If that's true (and I've no reason to say it's not), then they should be shot with balls of their own shampooe.

No wonder Lenny jacked it. Hard to see why any manager worth their salt would take a job under such conditions.

EDIT: Just remembered that Lenny said something aboutwanting VvD and Wilson as a partnership. FFS :boxer:
Kelvin Wilson had personal reasons for moving back to Nottingham. I don't think anyone at the club really anticipated selling him to be fair.
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Gonga
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murphio
1 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
Gonga
1 Aug 2014, 09:37 PM
murphio
1 Aug 2014, 09:34 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think the term he is looking for is buy smart, sell high.
We have done OK. Yes, there has been failures but when you look at what we spent on Hooper, Mulgrew, Ledley, Stokes, Izzaguire, Forster, Wilson, Matthews, Wanyama, Lustig, Ambrose, Van Dijk...... it wasn't fortunes. We have been fairly smart, in all fairness.
I agree, we have on an individual basis made some good signings.

My main issue is that we don't seem to know when to move players on and how to keep things fresh.

We now have an incredibly stale side who are stuck between their own comfort zone and not actually giving a eff.

Whether that is because they want to see the club bring new faces in to help them progress, or they are just taking
the job for granted because they know this is as good as it gets and nobody else is challenging for their position I do not know.

Its poor management, and its been coming for a while.

Lenny was great at the start, but became an extremely lazy manager as time progressed and I think we are left with a squad
that shows that.
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ootmaheid
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Gonga
1 Aug 2014, 10:19 PM
murphio
1 Aug 2014, 09:44 PM
Gonga
1 Aug 2014, 09:37 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We have done OK. Yes, there has been failures but when you look at what we spent on Hooper, Mulgrew, Ledley, Stokes, Izzaguire, Forster, Wilson, Matthews, Wanyama, Lustig, Ambrose, Van Dijk...... it wasn't fortunes. We have been fairly smart, in all fairness.
I agree, we have on an individual basis made some good signings.

My main issue is that we don't seem to know when to move players on and how to keep things fresh.

We now have an incredibly stale side who are stuck between their own comfort zone and not actually giving a eff.

Whether that is because they want to see the club bring new faces in to help them progress, or they are just taking
the job for granted because they know this is as good as it gets and nobody else is challenging for their position I do not know.

Its poor management, and its been coming for a while.

Lenny was great at the start, but became an extremely lazy manager as time progressed and I think we are left with a squad
that shows that.
:thumbsup:
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tinsoldier
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I understand that the board have implemented a strict business model regarding bringing players in and increasing their value etc etc but surely there is some room for flexibility? Is it really too much to ask for instance that we bring in someone with a bit of experience, especially up front?
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