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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,621 Views)
Forza
Considering retirement
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Lobey Dosser
14 Jun 2016, 10:56 PM
aldo
14 Jun 2016, 09:53 PM
Forza
14 Jun 2016, 03:50 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Man, if season tickets are flying off the shelves it's because of Brendan Rodgers' appointment, and the hope that such ambition heralds an end to the policy of austerity that bedivilled every aspect of the club (apart from Lawwell's remuneration and power base).

There were many, many ST holder who, like me, had resolved not to renew unless the Club demonstrated an intent to prioritise onfield achievement over business activities - team sheet before balance sheet - and the raft of other issues that lead to the disconnect between the Board and the support. The Board's apparent inactivity on Resolution 12 and the need to defend the Club's past, present and future interest were among the beefs we held, and recent comments from the R12 camp have not made for encouraging reading*

The fear is that Lawwell will contrive to allow R12 to wither on the vine while we are distracted by the Brendan feel good factor. A simple statement confirming The Club's support of the aims of R12 and of The Requisitioners would go a long way to assure fans that this Board, which has badly let us down in recent years, are on the same page as us at last.

*wee bit vague, I know, but a couple of months ago on of the R12 team posted on here of his disillusion with the process and of his belief that Lawwell had been stringing them along all the time
Good shout Aldo, the jury is still out on the board with respect to their activity or non activity on res 12.

No one is asking for foamy mouthed nonsense, as previously suggested, but the subject is of immense importance and goes to the heart of whether the game is bent or not.


If Celtic released a one line statement confirming it was aware of the Resolution 12 concerns and that they had played a role in ensuring that the issue was now brought to the attention of UEFA, there would undoubtedly be people on here insisting that it wasn't enough, or sufficiently full throated. Something like that.

In doing that, there would probably be some blowback about it in the Scottish media, which could run counter to what was actually happening regarding the case within the UEFA arbitration process. I am just not sure releasing a statement that invites that is a particular benefit at this stage, because it appears regardless of whether it is being reported on more widely or not there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it is now being formally considered where it needs to be, within UEFA. This is especially if the club are not currently aware of how this may or may not be progressing through the appropriate channels.

CQN and Brian McNally (perhaps Phil too?) seem to have jumped the gun in assuming there was going to be some statement. It might even have been a nudge to pressure the club in the direction of doing so.

As I have pointed out though, the notion that Resolution 12 is some sort of red line when it comes to peoples' attendance at Celtic games this coming season - which has been put forward by many people on social media over the last year or so - is really flawed, as the current stadium map for season tickets tends to show. The club's PR is rightly about Rodgers and the new season, and it would be really basic PR not to remove the focus from that at this point.
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paulfg42
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Forza
16 Jun 2016, 11:30 AM
as the current stadium map for season tickets tends to show.
It's just a marketing scam, mate.
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Tiny Tim
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Forza
16 Jun 2016, 11:30 AM
As I have pointed out though, the notion that Resolution 12 is some sort of red line when it comes to peoples' attendance at Celtic games this coming season - which has been put forward by many people on social media over the last year or so - is really flawed, as the current stadium map for season tickets tends to show. The club's PR is rightly about Rodgers and the new season, and it would be really basic PR not to remove the focus from that at this point.
It IS a red line for some. Some people want to see the maladministration in the Scottish game dealt with, others are happy to ignore it.
That doesn't make it a flawed notion.
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Wanyerma
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Tiny Tim
16 Jun 2016, 12:08 PM
Forza
16 Jun 2016, 11:30 AM
As I have pointed out though, the notion that Resolution 12 is some sort of red line when it comes to peoples' attendance at Celtic games this coming season - which has been put forward by many people on social media over the last year or so - is really flawed, as the current stadium map for season tickets tends to show. The club's PR is rightly about Rodgers and the new season, and it would be really basic PR not to remove the focus from that at this point.
It IS a red line for some. Some people want to see the maladministration in the Scottish game dealt with, others are happy to ignore it.
That doesn't make it a flawed notion.
Would agree with this.

The board are on double secret probation; while BR is a great move we haven't signed anyone yet, and we still have done nowt publicly re Res 12.

Both are important to indicate the board have turned a corner.
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searcher52
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Not wishing to appear cynical, however, I would suggest that if people gave up attending/buying season books etc on account of Res 12 there would be many willing to fill their seats. I doubt it's an issue with the "basic" fan to the degree that many on here believe it is.
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Forza
Considering retirement
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Tiny Tim
16 Jun 2016, 12:08 PM
Forza
16 Jun 2016, 11:30 AM
As I have pointed out though, the notion that Resolution 12 is some sort of red line when it comes to peoples' attendance at Celtic games this coming season - which has been put forward by many people on social media over the last year or so - is really flawed, as the current stadium map for season tickets tends to show. The club's PR is rightly about Rodgers and the new season, and it would be really basic PR not to remove the focus from that at this point.
It IS a red line for some. Some people want to see the maladministration in the Scottish game dealt with, others are happy to ignore it.
That doesn't make it a flawed notion.
So in the following hypothetical scenario*: Celtic formally support and/or acknowledge the presentation of the case, UEFA consider, then they establish there has not been a breach, and explain the reasons why (whether it is based on a convenient technicality or something more substantial). It is raised to CAS who do likewise.

Does this mean, for those this is a red line for, they are lost to the club indefinitely? Doesn't really compute for me. We've shown LNS was a bit of a sham already and people still want to follow the team, even through downsizing. On LNS, it seems difficult to know what more Celtic could have done on that.

I think we might be in the process of pre-judging outcomes? As in, there is only once perceived outcome that will be acceptable to some people, and they'll be ill prepared for any evidence - not suggesting it definitely exists by any means - that might contradict that and lead to an alternative conclusion to this?

Not that I want to speak on behalf of people who may or may not be seeking their pound of flesh, but if the only endgame here for some is a Farry-type removal of people from positions at the top of the Scottish Football Association, then I think people need to at least be prepared for that not happening. That the concept of a slam dunk as it is exists in their minds, may be somewhat less so when open to balanced scrutiny.

I actually think that the scrutiny that UEFA and FIFA are under means it is more likely they will look at this fully. Like many, I'll be interested in the outcome, but I'd be surprised if it was a red line issue (as in, I've not bought my season tickets or tickets and am unlikely to until this is resolved to my satisfaction) for any more than a handful of people. The experience of this summer tends to prove that the perceived ambition shown regarding the team totally outweighs it, and rightly so.

*deliberately hypothetical
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john67
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A update from the REV 12 guys over the next couple of days according to James forest
It ain't going away
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HenryClarson
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The biggest problem with the Res12 issues is the simple fact that the Celtic board should have been all over them like a rash years before shareholders had to fight to get it onto the agenda at an AGM. Even then, the likes of Auldheid and the other CQN guys were the ones doing all the heavy lifting and forcing the pace while the board dragged its heels.
We've got a CEO who has trousered millions of pounds since the licensing anomaly should have been rigorously questioned. We're supposed to have had all these supremely competent high-fliers on the board - guys who can run the Bank of England and Cabinet Ministers who can drag the whole country into years of war - and they've sat on their arses watching Celtic being routinely cheated by the Hùns and the SFA. We've got a major shareholder who can practically run the Irish economy working harder on his golf swing than protecting Celtic's interests. Billionaires, millionaires, barons and lords, all letting Campbell Ogilvie and Sandy Bryson run rings round them, year after year after year, and we're supposed to believe that they can't do anything about it?

Rubbish.

Celtic boards have done as much as anyone else to keep the Old Firm brand viable because there's lots of easy money to be made out of all that rancid hatred. Holding the Húns and the SFA properly to account would jeopardise that cosy and lucrative business arrangement so they do nothing other than pay lip service to concerns about fundamental principles of integrity. During the season of honest mistakes, they took it all on the chin. They couldn't even grow a pair when every referee in the country openly turned against us. They were quite prepared to let the Hùns cheat their way to CL paydays to keep them - and the Old Firm - afloat. And it's paid off now that Sevco have made it into the top division to renew the franchise but they're quite clearly in tune with tens of thousands of customers who'll tolerate just about anything so long as they can keep going along to the pantomime every week.

It's a pity. We've blown the chance of a lifetime to wipe out the rallying point for many of the most regressive attitudes in our society. But the Old Firm games will look as spectacular as ever on Sky television and I suppose that's the important thing.
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Torquemada
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HenryClarson
17 Jun 2016, 08:23 AM
Spoiler: click to toggle


It's a pity. We've blown the chance of a lifetime to wipe out the rallying point for many of the most regressive attitudes in our society. But the Old Firm games will look as spectacular as ever on Sky television and I suppose that's the important thing.
I wouldn't be quite as strident as you have been, Henry, but it's hard to argue with most of that. The only thing I can say in the board's defence is that, being tolerated in Scotland but unloved by all but our own, Celtic probably hoped other clubs, equally cheated by the huns, would have stepped forward in a show of unity. That hope died with Turnbull Hutton.

But I haven't given up on Resolution 12 or the Celtic board yet -- not by a long chalk. I'm a born optimist. :thumbsup:
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Lobey Dosser
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Torquemada
17 Jun 2016, 09:53 AM
HenryClarson
17 Jun 2016, 08:23 AM
Spoiler: click to toggle


It's a pity. We've blown the chance of a lifetime to wipe out the rallying point for many of the most regressive attitudes in our society. But the Old Firm games will look as spectacular as ever on Sky television and I suppose that's the important thing.
I wouldn't be quite as strident as you have been, Henry, but it's hard to argue with most of that. The only thing I can say in the board's defence is that, being tolerated in Scotland but unloved by all but our own, Celtic probably hoped other clubs, equally cheated by the huns, would have stepped forward in a show of unity. That hope died with Turnbull Hutton.

But I haven't given up on Resolution 12 or the Celtic board yet -- not by a long chalk. I'm a born optimist. :thumbsup:
I don't think HC's post is excessively forceful nor controversial.

He's saying what a great many think, without the soft focus. Plain and simple.

I'd agree with you that the apparent absence of support from other clubs is disappointing, but it is always going to be thus when they are desperate for the money that the hun support brings.

The board know this, or should know this, and have the responsibility to face the situation.

It certainly looks like they have sat on their hands for a very long time, waiting for things to get back to " normal "

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greenjedi
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Lobey Dosser
17 Jun 2016, 10:21 AM
Torquemada
17 Jun 2016, 09:53 AM
HenryClarson
17 Jun 2016, 08:23 AM
Spoiler: click to toggle


It's a pity. We've blown the chance of a lifetime to wipe out the rallying point for many of the most regressive attitudes in our society. But the Old Firm games will look as spectacular as ever on Sky television and I suppose that's the important thing.
I wouldn't be quite as strident as you have been, Henry, but it's hard to argue with most of that. The only thing I can say in the board's defence is that, being tolerated in Scotland but unloved by all but our own, Celtic probably hoped other clubs, equally cheated by the huns, would have stepped forward in a show of unity. That hope died with Turnbull Hutton.

But I haven't given up on Resolution 12 or the Celtic board yet -- not by a long chalk. I'm a born optimist. :thumbsup:
I don't think HC's post is excessively forceful nor controversial.

He's saying what a great many think, without the soft focus. Plain and simple.

I'd agree with you that the apparent absence of support from other clubs is disappointing, but it is always going to be thus when they are desperate for the money that the hun support brings.

The board know this, or should know this, and have the responsibility to face the situation.

It certainly looks like they have sat on their hands for a very long time, waiting for things to get back to " normal "

From ETIMS today

"….everyone seems to have ignored the fact that the much promised and much anticipated statement from Celtic FC has failed to materialise.

Thats because it isn’t going to happen.

CQN magazine , who have nobly carried the fight, tweeted somewhat vaguely yesterday, when asked if there was to be a statement,

not sure tbh. They said they would but landscape has changed. They played their part.

As the site has consistently hinted at a staement that would appear first of all on their pges, it seems a little unusual that CQN are now “not sure ” , and claiming the “landscape has changed ”

Well, if they are “not sure”, should they not check ?

And if the “landscape has changed”, can they not ask how ?

And if “they played their part “, can we not have some clarifcation on who “they ” are, and what “part ” they played ?

Because I’ll tell you how it looks from here, and I’m seeing this rather clearly, I think, the new guy is in, the books have been sold, and Timmy can eff off now.

Is that a realistic assessment of how the “landscape has changed ” ?

The support haven’t forgotten that we have been cheated.

We haven’t forgotten that the club hinted they were going to do something about it.

We won’t forget it if they don’t."
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blanco
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Lobey Dosser
17 Jun 2016, 10:21 AM
Torquemada
17 Jun 2016, 09:53 AM
HenryClarson
17 Jun 2016, 08:23 AM
Spoiler: click to toggle


It's a pity. We've blown the chance of a lifetime to wipe out the rallying point for many of the most regressive attitudes in our society. But the Old Firm games will look as spectacular as ever on Sky television and I suppose that's the important thing.
I wouldn't be quite as strident as you have been, Henry, but it's hard to argue with most of that. The only thing I can say in the board's defence is that, being tolerated in Scotland but unloved by all but our own, Celtic probably hoped other clubs, equally cheated by the huns, would have stepped forward in a show of unity. That hope died with Turnbull Hutton.

But I haven't given up on Resolution 12 or the Celtic board yet -- not by a long chalk. I'm a born optimist. :thumbsup:
I don't think HC's post is excessively forceful nor controversial.

He's saying what a great many think, without the soft focus. Plain and simple.

I'd agree with you that the apparent absence of support from other clubs is disappointing, but it is always going to be thus when they are desperate for the money that the hun support brings.

The board know this, or should know this, and have the responsibility to face the situation.

It certainly looks like they have sat on their hands for a very long time, waiting for things to get back to " normal "

It looks like our board probably see things in much the same way as the GASL, hopefully win 55% of the time to the others 45% and keep things close enough that the rivalry returns to the levels of years gone by. :angry:
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tomtheleedstim
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I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
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He Cometh
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tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 07:44 PM
I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
A line in the sand was drawn when Celtic officially contacted UEFA with their query.

Statement apart they can do no more.
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pedrok
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He Cometh
17 Jun 2016, 08:49 PM
tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 07:44 PM
I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
A line in the sand was drawn when Celtic officially contacted UEFA with their query.

Statement apart they can do no more.
So they can issue a statement.
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He Cometh
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pedrok
17 Jun 2016, 08:54 PM
He Cometh
17 Jun 2016, 08:49 PM
tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 07:44 PM
I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
A line in the sand was drawn when Celtic officially contacted UEFA with their query.

Statement apart they can do no more.
So they can issue a statement.
If they choose to they can yes.

The most important action has been done though.
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tomtheleedstim
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He Cometh
17 Jun 2016, 08:49 PM
tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 07:44 PM
I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
A line in the sand was drawn when Celtic officially contacted UEFA with their query.

Statement apart they can do no more.
I'm afraid that is nonsense.
The board have been at best negligent and at worst,complicit.
Shareholders forced the issue against the board's wishes.
We have a CEO paid in the region of £1m per year and he is supported by a highly resourced group of directors and none of them saw the issues raised by the requisitioners? It has cost our club millions.

It has taken fans to get it this far.

Brian Quinn, our former Chairman, sits on the UEFA CFCB committee. This is the very committee in charge of club licensing issues. If the Celtic board had concerns about the Huns licensing then they only had to pick up the phone.

I notice you mention "statement apart" as though that isn't a big issue. Many of us think it is a big issue.
Many of us think that the silence speaks volumes.

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Belgrano
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In terms of 'quick wins', the board releasing a statement seems about one of the easiest ones. It begs questions why they haven't done so.
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pedrok
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Belgrano
17 Jun 2016, 09:08 PM
In terms of 'quick wins', the board releasing a statement seems about one of the easiest ones. It begs questions why they haven't done so.
Yip. That was the point I was looking to make.
Edited by pedrok, 17 Jun 2016, 09:10 PM.
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He Cometh
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tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 09:05 PM
He Cometh
17 Jun 2016, 08:49 PM
tomtheleedstim
17 Jun 2016, 07:44 PM
I also think that the Celtic board have "played" the res12 guys and the wider support.
They could have drawn the line in the sand in this issue but have chosen not to.
We will reap the rewards of that tactic for years to come.
A line in the sand was drawn when Celtic officially contacted UEFA with their query.

Statement apart they can do no more.
I'm afraid that is nonsense.
The board have been at best negligent and at worst,complicit.
Shareholders forced the issue against the board's wishes.
We have a CEO paid in the region of £1m per year and he is supported by a highly resourced group of directors and none of them saw the issues raised by the requisitioners? It has cost our club millions.

It has taken fans to get it this far.

Brian Quinn, our former Chairman, sits on the UEFA CFCB committee. This is the very committee in charge of club licensing issues. If the Celtic board had concerns about the Huns licensing then they only had to pick up the phone.

I notice you mention "statement apart" as though that isn't a big issue. Many of us think it is a big issue.
Many of us think that the silence speaks volumes.

I can't help what you 'think' mate but what I know as fact is that Celtic have contacted UEFA officially with their query in regards to the issuing of the European licence.

You either don't believe that or you don't want to believe that but that is the state of play right now.

A statement would be nice but there might be reasons it's not came yet (and I've been told from a shareholder directly involved in this) that the delay is coming from them and not the club right now as the whole thing is moving in the background.

The most important thing though is the raising of the issue from the club with UEFA and that has been done.
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