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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,625 Views)
Lobey Dosser
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He Cometh
10 Jun 2016, 10:09 PM
smiddybar
10 Jun 2016, 10:00 PM
Belgrano
10 Jun 2016, 06:40 PM
No matter what way you look at it - the club's complete silence and inactivity over the Resolution 12 issue - leaving the fans to fight the battle in the press and with UEFA, is disgraceful.

Hopefully Desmond's putting of Lawwell in his place over the managers position will also be matched by a sudden engagement on the Resolution 12, rather than the lip-service and deflection tactics the Lawwell-led board has adopted over the past few years, hoping desperately that the issue will just 'go away'.
If Celtic are indeed sitting on the fence on this major issue, then it will be very unlikely that EUFA will want to take it any further without a supporting input from the club itself.
The club have already contacted UEFA officially to raise their concerns.

It's now out of the clubs hands and down to UEFA.
Source ?
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Torquemada
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With all this "he said/she said" nonsense, we're losing sight of the real issue here -- the Guardian, that fabled defender of the voiceless and advocate for an open society, has refused an ad that asks questions about corruption on the back of a report from a respected tax watchdog whose other reports it has been happy to publish and report on.

The whole thing stinks and the reputation of the newspaper and one of its most respected contributors -- a guy I knew well once upon a time -- has suffered immeasurably.

You have to ask yourself: For what? :ponder:
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rightsaidted
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Isn't Alex Thompson giving a clue as to what he thinks happened, in his tweet ie Is he saying that it was the government who pressurised the Guardian to spike the advert? He certainly states that they are behaving like a government department.

Doesn't anyone question the support all things Rangers have had for decades in Scotland? Bizarre decisions in the judiciary, a police force which has always leaned towards them, a Scottish government which has always attempted to make Celtic as culpable as Rangers and we don't even need to begin on the MSM. This isn't about football and I'm beginning to question whether it is about money either. It's political. Perhaps.

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pedrok
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Torquemada
11 Jun 2016, 10:33 AM
With all this "he said/she said" nonsense, we're losing sight of the real issue here -- the Guardian, that fabled defender of the voiceless and advocate for an open society, has refused an ad that asks questions about corruption on the back of a report from a respected tax watchdog whose other reports it has been happy to publish and report on.

The whole thing stinks and the reputation of the newspaper and one of its most respected contributors -- a guy I knew well once upon a time -- has suffered immeasurably.

You have to ask yourself: For what? :ponder:
Exactly. What is the reason for not running the advert, and then the Greenslade nonsense.

I can't believe it has anything to do with losing the Rangers pound. The number of Guardian readers, who buy the paper, is pretty small. The number or Rangers supporters who would then boycott it, would be minimal.

So who is putting the pressure on? I can't believe it is the Scottish Government either, I don't think they have the muscle to do so. So, then who? And why?
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Hoops For Me All The Way
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pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 11:32 AM
Torquemada
11 Jun 2016, 10:33 AM
With all this "he said/she said" nonsense, we're losing sight of the real issue here -- the Guardian, that fabled defender of the voiceless and advocate for an open society, has refused an ad that asks questions about corruption on the back of a report from a respected tax watchdog whose other reports it has been happy to publish and report on.

The whole thing stinks and the reputation of the newspaper and one of its most respected contributors -- a guy I knew well once upon a time -- has suffered immeasurably.

You have to ask yourself: For what? :ponder:
Exactly. What is the reason for not running the advert, and then the Greenslade nonsense.

I can't believe it has anything to do with losing the Rangers pound. The number of Guardian readers, who buy the paper, is pretty small. The number or Rangers supporters who would then boycott it, would be minimal.

So who is putting the pressure on? I can't believe it is the Scottish Government either, I don't think they have the muscle to do so. So, then who? And why?
Lets assume it was the SNP for some reason, or staff in one of the various departments acting rogue- which is not unknown.

If, if, that happened then the guardian (does not merit a G from now on) would have a scoop hitch they would love to publish. They could not get enough of that and would be trumpeting the "act" in any way possible. Cat and cream. Government intention in free speech? They would be in their element.

So, it's not that. At least, as far as I can see.
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pedrok
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Hoops For Me All The Way
11 Jun 2016, 12:12 PM
pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 11:32 AM
Torquemada
11 Jun 2016, 10:33 AM
With all this "he said/she said" nonsense, we're losing sight of the real issue here -- the Guardian, that fabled defender of the voiceless and advocate for an open society, has refused an ad that asks questions about corruption on the back of a report from a respected tax watchdog whose other reports it has been happy to publish and report on.

The whole thing stinks and the reputation of the newspaper and one of its most respected contributors -- a guy I knew well once upon a time -- has suffered immeasurably.

You have to ask yourself: For what? :ponder:
Exactly. What is the reason for not running the advert, and then the Greenslade nonsense.

I can't believe it has anything to do with losing the Rangers pound. The number of Guardian readers, who buy the paper, is pretty small. The number or Rangers supporters who would then boycott it, would be minimal.

So who is putting the pressure on? I can't believe it is the Scottish Government either, I don't think they have the muscle to do so. So, then who? And why?
Lets assume it was the SNP for some reason, or staff in one of the various departments acting rogue- which is not unknown.

If, if, that happened then the guardian (does not merit a G from now on) would have a scoop hitch they would love to publish. They could not get enough of that and would be trumpeting the "act" in any way possible. Cat and cream. Government intention in free speech? They would be in their element.

So, it's not that. At least, as far as I can see.
Unless there is something pretty straight forward, that we are all missing, such as a potential legal issue, I don't know what the Guardian gets out of not publishing the advert.
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Quiet Assasin
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pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 12:21 PM
Hoops For Me All The Way
11 Jun 2016, 12:12 PM
pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 11:32 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Lets assume it was the SNP for some reason, or staff in one of the various departments acting rogue- which is not unknown.

If, if, that happened then the guardian (does not merit a G from now on) would have a scoop hitch they would love to publish. They could not get enough of that and would be trumpeting the "act" in any way possible. Cat and cream. Government intention in free speech? They would be in their element.

So, it's not that. At least, as far as I can see.
Unless there is something pretty straight forward, that we are all missing, such as a potential legal issue, I don't know what the Guardian gets out of not publishing the advert.
There was an ASA investigation following the last ad they ran from Celtic fans.
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Wanyerma
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Is it possible the Grauniad high heid yins, who let's face it know nothing about Scotland or Scottish football, asked one of their Scottish journos about the ad, were given a tin hat image of #res12 and acted accordingly?
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pedrok
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Wanyerma
11 Jun 2016, 12:30 PM
Is it possible the Grauniad high heid yins, who let's face it know nothing about Scotland or Scottish football, asked one of their Scottish journos about the ad, were given a tin hat image of #res12 and acted accordingly?
But why would it matter? The Guardian gets £5k for printing something, which the following day is being used to wrap fish suppers or bedding for hamsters.

Remember the stories the Guardian has reported and broken, just in the last few years alone. For a media organisation such as the Guardian, this is small stuff. Had they just printed the thing, that bit would have been over and done with.
Edited by pedrok, 11 Jun 2016, 12:41 PM.
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rightsaidted
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Quiet Assasin
11 Jun 2016, 12:26 PM
pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 12:21 PM
Hoops For Me All The Way
11 Jun 2016, 12:12 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Unless there is something pretty straight forward, that we are all missing, such as a potential legal issue, I don't know what the Guardian gets out of not publishing the advert.
There was an ASA investigation following the last ad they ran from Celtic fans.
So why didn't they just come out and say that? Why have they made matters far worse by lying?
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corsica1968
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The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
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Lobey Dosser
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corsica1968
11 Jun 2016, 12:53 PM
The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
Commercial pressures on the advertising front.

Print that, lose our business. ?
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lisbonlion10
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Lobey Dosser
11 Jun 2016, 12:56 PM
corsica1968
11 Jun 2016, 12:53 PM
The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
Commercial pressures on the advertising front.

Print that, lose our business. ?
No journalist worth his or her salt would agree to that.
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TechnoTic
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rightsaidted
11 Jun 2016, 12:41 PM
Quiet Assasin
11 Jun 2016, 12:26 PM
pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 12:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
There was an ASA investigation following the last ad they ran from Celtic fans.
So why didn't they just come out and say that? Why have they made matters far worse by lying?
Perhaps assisting in shining a light on dead RFC and their blatant cheating which was poorly covered up by the SFA - resulting in national widespread coverage may have been too much of a security risk. After all, we saw how the huns reacted to a pitch full of celebrating Hibbies - now imagine the scene if all the Tims around the country partied at the rumbling of the SFA and their deceased masters. So my take is that someone had a word in their ear and it was pulled to keep the streets safe.
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lisbonlion10
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https://johnjamessite.com/2016/06/11/the-spoiler/

Truth or more rubbish by JJ?

” I understand Dear Reader that there is some tension between the intrepid Resolution 12 people today following a rather costly mishap in their attempts to re-ignite the issue.The clever lads crowdfunded circa £4000 and even more brilliantly found an accommodating sales executive at a Swiss newspaper who confirmed he would happily print any ad which was free of offensive language. Off to work they went and produced their piece.They had been confidently assured by Paul Brennan via his “UEFA contact” that this was the English language newspaper of choice for UEFA delegates….unfortunately there was a breakdown in communication with his well placed source as the newspaper they’ve chosen is in fact a French language one. Hilariously the Resolution 12 guys only learnt of their mistake last night and despite some frantic calls begging for a refund it was too late, the money was gone and the public embarrassment was unavoidable.Perhaps to compensate they can publish their imminent Guardian ad on the same subject in French? ‘Je Suis Resolution Douze.’Oh dear !”

The aforementioned comment was sent to me on this site on the 1st June. This comment is known in the trade as a spoiler. The Pers12tence beats Resistance ad was published on the 1st June in the Tribune De Geneve. This comment was leaked to a friendly Rangers-facing social media site. It has subsequently been removed to distance the author of this spoiler from his smoking gun.

I put this comment in my trash file, not my spam file. In the spam file I don’t see the comments unless I choose to go looking for them prior to their automatic deletion. I have no time or desire to revisit the most ardent swivel-eyed-FTP loons. The trash file is also automatically deleted after three months but I use it as a working file. If I’m sent anything in confidence, if it’s marked not for publication, I respect the request. If a comment is marked not to be attributed to source, I also respect it. In this way I have managed to acquire a volume of inside information. I will not allow my site to be used to perpetrate a lie. However ten days after the event, this spoiler has traction and is now on my agenda for scrutiny and discussion.

Let’s look at the facts of this matter. Professor Roy Greenslade is a journalist who rightly commands the respect of his peers. He is a man of integrity. He has lifted my quotes from this site and he had the courtesy to name-check this source. Celtic Quick News (CQN) is a site run by Paul Brennan. I have never met Mr Brennan, but he is highly thought of by others, some of whom have commented openly (or discreetly) on this site. CQN raised funds to highlight the collusive corruption at the heart of Scottish football governance. The funds were raised from supporters of Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee United, Hearts and others.

The proposed advertisements, in English, were not published in the Guardian. A senior executive vetoed the publication of two half page ads that were booked, paid for in advance, and due for run on the 4th and 6th of June. This surprising decision incited many to write to Roy Greensland to question the integrity of the Guardian. His two responses came as a surprise. He opined that if it had been his decision, he would have probably allowed the ads to be published. He stated that it was a commercial decision that in no way undermined editorial or journalistic integrity. He was somewhat dismissive in his assertion that it was a Glasgow issue. This assertion was redolent of Stewart Regan’s position that it is an issue of no relevance by anonymous individuals in the West of Scotland with an agenda. However, what he did next played into the hands of the author of the spoiler. He claimed that the ads for the Guardian were accepted in French and subsequently vetoed when translated. He followed this up with an excerpt of an ad that had been translated into French

This developing narrative piqued the interest of Alex Thomson of Channel 4 News. He directed questions via his C4 News Twitter account to the Guardian inquiring why the ads were not published and who made the decision to veto them? He did not receive a response. Paul Brennan then published his email exchange with the advertising executive at the Guardian. He wholeheartedly refuted Roy Greenslade’s narrative.

At this point I invite readers to look at the text in the spoiler again.Would anyone be surprised if James Traynor of Level 5 was behind this spoiler? Would anyone be surprised if he had a contact at the Guardian who spiked the article? I would not be surprised. As much as I’m persuaded by his unseen hand in this affair, the most important question is the source of the French translation as there are only three possible alternatives:

A earlier draft was created in French by CQN as an option for Tribune De Geneve and this was sent to the commercial department of the Guardian to provide an indication of scale.
The author of the spoiler created a French narrative which he sent to his contact at the Guardian.
The executive who spiked the ads created his own translation to cover his tracks. If an unseen hand was behind his decision, he would not wish for this to be disclosed.


Mr Traynor may believe that he has prevailed on this occasion but he should be aware that the fallout is now nuclear and he might well get burned.
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Lobey Dosser
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lisbonlion10
11 Jun 2016, 12:58 PM
Lobey Dosser
11 Jun 2016, 12:56 PM
corsica1968
11 Jun 2016, 12:53 PM
The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
Commercial pressures on the advertising front.

Print that, lose our business. ?
No journalist worth his or her salt would agree to that.
Not all newspapers are run by journalists. Also very many journalists do not deserve the title.
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aldo
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pedrok
11 Jun 2016, 12:40 PM
Wanyerma
11 Jun 2016, 12:30 PM
Is it possible the Grauniad high heid yins, who let's face it know nothing about Scotland or Scottish football, asked one of their Scottish journos about the ad, were given a tin hat image of #res12 and acted accordingly?
But why would it matter? The Guardian gets £5k for printing something, which the following day is being used to wrap fish suppers or bedding for hamsters.

Remember the stories the Guardian has reported and broken, just in the last few years alone. For a media organisation such as the Guardian, this is small stuff. Had they just printed the thing, that bit would have been over and done with.
I think that's a very plausible scenario Wanyerma suggests. Depending on who High Heid Yin asks, he could have been spun a tale of bickering, internet bampot OF fans that's best left avoided, especially after the pre-cup tie advert was investigated by the ASA following complaints by the usual suspects.

edit: that said, I suspect Traynor using his Ladbrokes leverage is behind this.
Edited by aldo, 11 Jun 2016, 01:18 PM.
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Lobey Dosser
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He Cometh
10 Jun 2016, 10:09 PM
smiddybar
10 Jun 2016, 10:00 PM
Belgrano
10 Jun 2016, 06:40 PM
No matter what way you look at it - the club's complete silence and inactivity over the Resolution 12 issue - leaving the fans to fight the battle in the press and with UEFA, is disgraceful.

Hopefully Desmond's putting of Lawwell in his place over the managers position will also be matched by a sudden engagement on the Resolution 12, rather than the lip-service and deflection tactics the Lawwell-led board has adopted over the past few years, hoping desperately that the issue will just 'go away'.
If Celtic are indeed sitting on the fence on this major issue, then it will be very unlikely that EUFA will want to take it any further without a supporting input from the club itself.[/quote
]The club have already contacted UEFA officially to raise their concerns.

It's now out of the clubs hands and down to UEFA.

That you Peter ?
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lenobhoy
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Lobey Dosser
11 Jun 2016, 12:56 PM
corsica1968
11 Jun 2016, 12:53 PM
The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
Commercial pressures on the advertising front.

Print that, lose our business. ?
As Pedrok stated above there can't be that many Huns buying the Gruniard that they would lose that much money. It's not like the Insider or Good Night & Good Luck, were large corporations are thinking of pulling the plug and endangering the existence of renowned media companies just to block a story.

It's a very strange decision from a newspaper that was prepared to run a very controversial ad for Zionists during the Gaza attack a couple of years back. By blocking the ad after the initial acceptance & with the bizarre excuses, it's just muddied the waters even more.
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Lobey Dosser
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lenobhoy
11 Jun 2016, 01:32 PM
Lobey Dosser
11 Jun 2016, 12:56 PM
corsica1968
11 Jun 2016, 12:53 PM
The other thing that is weird about all this guardian stuff is David Conn. He has:

(a) been writing about and exposing corruption in football for donkey's years (not just in England);
(b) pretty much carte blanche to write what he wants at the guardian;
(c) had an awful lot of information and evidence sent to him direct on Res12 as well as the wider sevco farce;
(d) had at least three in-depth conversations on Res12 and sevco that I know of

and yet he refuses to run or investigate the story. You can understand SMSM churnalists sticking their fingers in their ears and singing lalalala but an award-winning, investigative reporter handed a huge story on a plate?
Commercial pressures on the advertising front.

Print that, lose our business. ?
As Pedrok stated above there can't be that many Huns buying the Gruniard that they would lose that much money. It's not like the Insider or Good Night & Good Luck, were large corporations are thinking of pulling the plug and endangering the existence of renowned media companies just to block a story.

It's a very strange decision from a newspaper that was prepared to run a very controversial ad for Zionists during the Gaza attack a couple of years back. By blocking the ad after the initial acceptance & with the bizarre excuses, it's just muddied the waters even more.
My point relates to advertising revenue, not the daily pence the punter pays for his fish and chip wrapper.
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