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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,989 Views)
Emerald Oracle
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
pauldg1
31 Jul 2014, 09:22 PM
Since Lennon became manager:

Player sales: ~£49 million
European prize money: ~£36 million

Player purchases: ~£29 million


It's absolutely taking the piss.
How dare you! It doesn't show that on the accounts so it can't be true.

If you take 40,000 season tickets at an average of £300 that's £12m, add a sold out Champions league stadium threw an extra 3 match package of £80, cup and general sale tickets and combine that with merchandise(boards favourite) gives around £20m. That should cover 20 players on £20k a week(we know that isnt the average wage) for a year ie Operating costs

So its fair to say the player sales profit hasn't been going on these so called operating costs that are spoke of.

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josephledley
First-team starter
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pauldg1
31 Jul 2014, 09:22 PM
Since Lennon became manager:

Player sales: ~£49 million
European prize money: ~£36 million

Player purchases: ~£29 million


It's absolutely taking the piss.
If these are accurate figures and I've no reason to doubt they aren't then its truly staggering that we are so effed on the park and heads need to roll I'm afraid.

How anyone can defend this shower that are running the club is beyond me
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mr green sky
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First name on the team-sheet
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is it preposterious to maybe think that the only way we can address this is for us to go outa europe so heads will/must roll

if we downsize any more we will be smaller than a mouses ****

*insert own analogy
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Sjb141
First-team captain
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 09:45 PM
Mubo Loravcik
31 Jul 2014, 09:38 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 09:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I wish I knew.
i think the wages are far too high for very average players (some not even average). the worst point is it seems we need to pay these players more than their worth to get them to even consider joining us. its a no win situation and i have no idea what the solution. i dont think the board have many answers either

i can see the thinking behind getting a highly rated coach who is all for developing young players but he still needs backing from the board which doesnt seem to be available.
This is a massive cop out.

Also, I've seen you make a lot of references to the "numbers being out there" that show our net spending/wage budget/'operating expenses' but I can't recall ever seeing anything that breaks it down to that degree. Care to source?


edit - just meant to quote the bolded part.
Edited by Sjb141, 31 Jul 2014, 10:04 PM.
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Gonga
Older than dirt
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dweezilfc
31 Jul 2014, 09:50 PM
aye, he's the highly rated coach from.......Norway :doh:
should be coaching, then, and not managing Celtic
I'd rather have a highly rated coach from Norway managing Celtic than a jumped up businessman.
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Zurawski 7
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Sjb141
31 Jul 2014, 10:04 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 09:45 PM
Mubo Loravcik
31 Jul 2014, 09:38 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
i think the wages are far too high for very average players (some not even average). the worst point is it seems we need to pay these players more than their worth to get them to even consider joining us. its a no win situation and i have no idea what the solution. i dont think the board have many answers either

i can see the thinking behind getting a highly rated coach who is all for developing young players but he still needs backing from the board which doesnt seem to be available.
This is a massive cop out.

Also, I've seen you make a lot of references to the "numbers being out there" that show our net spending/wage budget/'operating expenses' but I can't recall ever seeing anything that breaks it down to that degree. Care to source?


edit - just meant to quote the bolded part.
i dont think it is a cop out. i think far too many underestimate just how hard it is to attract players to scotland.

ive said the accounts show how much we are spending and the fact that we are not sitting on a pile of money as many seem to think. youve even got some that think we are hoarding money to spend whenever that mob get promoted

last years accounts - http://www.celtictrust.net/index.php?func=d_home_documents_view&id=48

"This is not only a highly satisfactory result, but representsa five year record profit. Consistent with such a robust financial performance, our net cash at bank position at the year end was £3.76m"

decembers accounts. 5.7m before buying johansen, griffiths and paying the wages with no season book money in for the next 6 months http://www.celticfc.net/downloads/Celtic_plc_Interim_Report_2013.pdf

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The Green Lantern
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Considering retirement
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Even if wages are included, our net spend must be less than what we took in. Ledley and Samaras were two of our highest earners. Hooper left because we wouldn't me his (allegedly) reasonable demands for an improved salary. Biton will be on roughly the same money as Wanyama. It still points to a serious lack of investment.
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Wee Ed KTF
Considering retirement
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Scary thing about our much vaunted buy low / sell high, sooper dooper, generation of domination, Lawwell is a genius, well done Peter, transfer policy:

Once we've sold Fraser Forster and Virgil Van Dijk to the EPL in the next week or two, what players left at Celtic will be sought after by EPL clubs and attract sizeable transfer fees?

Er............... :ponder:

Lustig? Maybe.

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Luxo
First-team starter
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The Green Lantern
31 Jul 2014, 10:23 PM
Even if wages are included, our net spend must be less than what we took in. Ledley and Samaras were two of our highest earners. Hooper left because we wouldn't me his (allegedly) reasonable demands for an improved salary. Biton will be on roughly the same money as Wanyama. It still points to a serious lack of investment.
Wanyama was on tiny money.... about 170,000 I believe. He earns nearly 10 times his Celtic salary at Southampton.
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Lobey Dosser
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Considering retirement
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Wee Ed KTF
31 Jul 2014, 10:30 PM
Scary thing about our much vaunted buy low / sell high, sooper dooper, generation of domination, Lawwell is a genius, well done Peter, transfer policy:

Once we've sold Fraser Forster and Virgil Van Dijk to the EPL in the next week or two, what players left at Celtic will be sought after by EPL clubs and attract sizeable transfer fees?

Er............... :ponder:

Lustig? Maybe.

On the plus side, mebbe we'll get a settled team then, nobody will want them.
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Neil Jung
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Wee Ed KTF
31 Jul 2014, 10:30 PM
Scary thing about our much vaunted buy low / sell high, sooper dooper, generation of domination, Lawwell is a genius, well done Peter, transfer policy:

Once we've sold Fraser Forster and Virgil Van Dijk to the EPL in the next week or two, what players left at Celtic will be sought after by EPL clubs and attract sizeable transfer fees?

Er............... :ponder:

Lustig? Maybe.

None that we will sell for "big money" unless wee Forrest gets fit & back on form.
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nakasboots
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Luxo
31 Jul 2014, 10:34 PM
The Green Lantern
31 Jul 2014, 10:23 PM
Even if wages are included, our net spend must be less than what we took in. Ledley and Samaras were two of our highest earners. Hooper left because we wouldn't me his (allegedly) reasonable demands for an improved salary. Biton will be on roughly the same money as Wanyama. It still points to a serious lack of investment.
Wanyama was on tiny money.... about 170,000 I believe. He earns nearly 10 times his Celtic salary at Southampton.
Wanyama is a rotten example, as it was a no brainer in respect of the value returned the club.

The point is, we don't see even half the funds of sales going back into buying players.

For every million we gain, we spend £100k.

(I've just made that up but no doubt someone actually has the figures)
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idyllwild


Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 09:53 PM
pauldg1
31 Jul 2014, 09:22 PM
Since Lennon became manager:

Player sales: ~£49 million
European prize money: ~£36 million

Player purchases: ~£29 million


It's absolutely taking the piss.
How dare you! It doesn't show that on the accounts so it can't be true.

If you take 40,000 season tickets at an average of £300 that's £12m, add a sold out Champions league stadium threw an extra 3 match package of £80, cup and general sale tickets and combine that with merchandise(boards favourite) gives around £20m. That should cover 20 players on £20k a week(we know that isnt the average wage) for a year ie Operating costs

So its fair to say the player sales profit hasn't been going on these so called operating costs that are spoke of.

What doesn't it show on the accounts? :ponder:

Those figures are meaningless when picked out and posted in isolation. We also have other revenues and costs worth £millions.
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pablo5
Member Avatar
Whatever it is, there's not enough of it
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I just don't see the long term plan.

We're on the road to oblivion without Champions League money.

Don't qualify, no money, no investment, no chance of ever getting back...

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pablo5
Member Avatar
Whatever it is, there's not enough of it
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Luxo
31 Jul 2014, 10:34 PM
The Green Lantern
31 Jul 2014, 10:23 PM
Even if wages are included, our net spend must be less than what we took in. Ledley and Samaras were two of our highest earners. Hooper left because we wouldn't me his (allegedly) reasonable demands for an improved salary. Biton will be on roughly the same money as Wanyama. It still points to a serious lack of investment.
Wanyama was on tiny money.... about 170,000 I believe. He earns nearly 10 times his Celtic salary at Southampton.
And what percentage of the transfer fee did him and his agent take?

That's the reality of the market we're in.

Players use us as a stepping stone because we'll make it worth their while...
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Dewey
Member Avatar
Formerly Flatlandbhoy
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 10:23 PM
Sjb141
31 Jul 2014, 10:04 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 09:45 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepthe worst point is it seems we need to pay these players more than their worth to get them to even consider joining us. its a no win situation and i have no idea what the solution. i dont think the board have many answers either

i can see the thinking behind getting a highly rated coach who is all for developing young players but he still needs backing from the board which doesnt seem to be available.
This is a massive cop out.

Also, I've seen you make a lot of references to the "numbers being out there" that show our net spending/wage budget/'operating expenses' but I can't recall ever seeing anything that breaks it down to that degree. Care to source?


edit - just meant to quote the bolded part.
i dont think it is a cop out. i think far too many underestimate just how hard it is to attract players to scotland.

ive said the accounts show how much we are spending and the fact that we are not sitting on a pile of money as many seem to think. youve even got some that think we are hoarding money to spend whenever that mob get promoted

last years accounts - http://www.celtictrust.net/index.php?func=d_home_documents_view&id=48

"This is not only a highly satisfactory result, but representsa five year record profit. Consistent with such a robust financial performance, our net cash at bank position at the year end was £3.76m"

decembers accounts. 5.7m before buying johansen, griffiths and paying the wages with no season book money in for the next 6 months http://www.celticfc.net/downloads/Celtic_plc_Interim_Report_2013.pdf

Thanks for the link. Shocked about record profits considering a few of the details.

Comparing 2009 to 2013:
Home league attendance: 57,570 down to 46,754
ST: 54,252 down to 41,716

A serious hit to revenue in that 5-year decline.

However, 2013 saw 6 European matches compared to 3 in 2009. And in 2013, Celtic had 53 fewer employees than in 2009. Then add transfer revenue and it all accounts for "five year record profit."

With lack of investment in team: ST will stay down, home league attendance will stay down, less European revenue, fewer players to sell to generate revenue. This may be the last year of anything close to a "five year record profit" after selling of FF and VVD. And after that...
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Lobey Dosser
Member Avatar
Considering retirement
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There is absolutely no argument that we have been downsizing for a number of years. But not across the organisation. Funny that.

Why do we need to pay our CEO a package that amounts to around three times the total whack that the President of the USA is paid ?

Celtic FC in the scale of business is a small to medium enterprise, c£76M turnover last year. How is Lawwell's remuneration justified in managing a relatively modest financial operation such as ours. ?



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thenakattack
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Getting on a bit
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Stephane_Mahe
31 Jul 2014, 08:18 PM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 08:04 PM
Stephane_Mahe
31 Jul 2014, 07:04 PM
Stopped at the name calling, no point reading the rest

Power to the people.....this week
Name calling?

Oh you mean numpty? Are you really gonna call that name calling?

And you probably read the rest, realised I was right and tried to use the 'name calling' as a convenient excuse.

Nice try, though.
Read it there so as not to upset you

Load of utter nonsense, away and hit like on a facebook pic to show that you hate cancer
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timtastic
Club Captain
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Over the past few years we've seen an increase in quantity of cheap signings at a time when we've needed one or two quality players.
The money we've wasted on cheaper inferior players who cost £1 million to £2 million and wages costs more than the odd higher value fee and wage as most of our projects are crap.

No guarantee any signing will work but more chance with a bit of quality. The board either have to support the manager with new players he wants or tell the fans why not.

Over the past few years a lot of long term season ticket holder have drifted away because of a number or reasons. My reason is the lack of quality on the park. Nothing to do with competition or no huns. Watching some of our players who get a regular game can be painful when you think back a few years to Hartson, Larson, Sutton, Thompson, Petrov, Naka, McGeady, Hooper, Wanyama etc.

Downsizing is the buzz word used at the moment that best describes what I feel the board are doing to the team on the park. We are a business but first we are a football team

No more heroes CSC.
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thenakattack
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Getting on a bit
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Think we call got caught up a bit in the whole transfer policy thing, we made alot of decent punts at one time but most are now gone. We dont buy enough players to get half correct and those we do buy are more likely to reach championship rather than EPL standard. Saying the transfer policy works is like saying the hibs youth academy works, it did once but doesnt now.
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