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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,666 Views)
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popeyed
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25 Apr 2016, 09:26 AM
Post #7121
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Climbing walls while sittin' in a chair.
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
17,300 £500 season tickets.
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markybhoy
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25 Apr 2016, 09:30 AM
Post #7122
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If he was going in to have a pop at the players that would be in keeping with the generally accepted opinion that he interferes with footballing matters. Though to be fair if I were the CEO of Celtic I'd be having a right f*cking pop at the players as well.
I hope he does leave and if he does the rules around his remuneration package need to change. Any bonuses MUST be linked to on field success and not the 'success' of the clubs annual statement.
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LoveCeltic
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25 Apr 2016, 09:32 AM
Post #7123
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First name on the team-sheet
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- Marado
- 25 Apr 2016, 08:43 AM
- murphio
- 24 Apr 2016, 10:50 AM
- CaltonBhoy1967
- 24 Apr 2016, 10:34 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As I said I have no time for Lawwell and Co but in my view it's simply not true to say that the difference between Celtic 2003 and the Celtic of today is the board's downsizing. The major difference is the rise in wages and transfer fees - Crystal Palace paid the same transfer fee and wage for James McArthur as we paid for Chris Sutton. That's not to say the board haven't been too cautious and wasteful - they have - but the major difference between 2003 and today is market forces.
Got to agree - we cannot attract players that can get 2 and 3 times as much down South. We do currently massively overspend though for some utter mediocrity. But we can afford the same wages for a CEO as those down south?
Villarreal pay the same in transfer fees as us and they would thump us if we played tomorrow.
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Dogg
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25 Apr 2016, 09:34 AM
Post #7124
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- popeyed
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:26 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
17,300 £500 season tickets. Over 500% increase in salary in 11 years.
Total remuneration going from 0.25% of turnover to 1.96% of turnover.
I'm actually hoping the figures aren't right, because it's beyond the pale.
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tinytim81
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25 Apr 2016, 09:35 AM
Post #7125
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- pauldg1
- 25 Apr 2016, 01:02 AM
- aldo
- 25 Apr 2016, 12:44 AM
- LoveCeltic
- 24 Apr 2016, 09:23 PM
What's the story about Lawwell going into the dressing room after the game today?
Yes, someone care to spell this out or direct me to a post it's in, please? Ta
Chick Young saw Peter Lawwell go straight into the dressing room at the end of the match and he called Deila out for it during the post-match interview. Deila mumbled something like "Peter has seen the Celtic dressing room a thousand times. It's normal." Pretty much a non-story. My guess is that Lawwell was dictating what Deila and the players could and couldn't say about the Green Brigade display. Doubt it. He could have done that at half time. Think he went in to have a go at the players. If you remember years ago David Murray did the same after another terrible result under Paul Le Guen.
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tinytim81
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25 Apr 2016, 09:36 AM
Post #7126
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- LoveCeltic
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:32 AM
- Marado
- 25 Apr 2016, 08:43 AM
- murphio
- 24 Apr 2016, 10:50 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Got to agree - we cannot attract players that can get 2 and 3 times as much down South. We do currently massively overspend though for some utter mediocrity.
But we can afford the same wages for a CEO as those down south? Villarreal pay the same in transfer fees as us and they would thump us if we played tomorrow. Yeah but the wages are much higher. You can't just look at the transfer fees in isolation. Higher wages tend to mean much better players.
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Forza
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25 Apr 2016, 09:46 AM
Post #7127
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
Can't speak for the earlier years (they look right), but the last three are correct. All of this information is in the Annual Report and his overall annual remuneration has been a few, pathetic, tokenistic pounds short of £1m p.a. for the last three years. 2012 is a total embarrassment.
He got a golden handcuffs deal when Arsenal came calling in 2008. You'll see his remuneration rises rapidly from 2008 onwards.
We are paying him too much, but we are paying him now as much for him being on the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (hugely influential in shaping the future composition of the Champions League) and on the Executive Board of the European Club Association. The ECA is already dominant on the CCC, but it basically shapes its own position within the ECA beforehand.
What I am saying is that it is unfortunately not as cut and dried with Lawwell. I'd like him gone, but I'd like the club to retain that seat at the table at European level to try and temper the more overzealous plans your Barcas, Inters, Bayerns and Charlie Stillitano actually have for the future of the UEFA club competitions.
Edited by Forza, 25 Apr 2016, 09:52 AM.
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Dogg
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25 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
Post #7128
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- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:46 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
Can't speak for the earlier years (they look right), but the last three are correct. All of this information is in the Annual Report and his overall annual remuneration has been a few, pathetic, tokenistic pounds short of £1m p.a. for the last three years. 2012 is a total embarrassment. He got a golden handcuffs deal when Arsenal came calling in 2008. You'll see his remuneration rises rapidly from 2008 onwards. We are paying him too much, but we are paying him now as much for him being on the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (hugely influential in shaping the future composition of the Champions League) and on the Exectuive Board of the European Club Association. The ECA is already dominant on the CCC, but it basically shapes its own psoition within the ECA beforehand. What I am saying is that it is unfortunately not as cut and dried with Lawwell. I'd like him gone, but I'd like the club to retain that seat at the table at European level to try and temper the more overzealous plans your Barcas, Inters, Bayerns and Charlie Stillitano actually have for the future of the UEFA club competitions. His job is to first and foremost make sure we are operating at the maximum level possible within our budget, everything else comes afterwards. He's failing miserably when it comes to what we pay him for, and if you think he really has any sway amongst your Barcas, Inters etc you're deluding yourself.
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lenobhoy
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25 Apr 2016, 09:53 AM
Post #7129
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Catch some light and it'll be alright
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- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:46 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
Can't speak for the earlier years (they look right), but the last three are correct. All of this information is in the Annual Report and his overall annual remuneration has been a few, pathetic, tokenistic pounds short of £1m p.a. for the last three years. 2012 is a total embarrassment. He got a golden handcuffs deal when Arsenal came calling in 2008. You'll see his remuneration rises rapidly from 2008 onwards. We are paying him too much, but we are paying him now as much for him being on the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (hugely influential in shaping the future composition of the Champions League) and on the Exectuive Board of the European Club Association. The ECA is already dominant on the CCC, but it basically shapes its own psoition within the ECA beforehand. What I am saying is that it is unfortunately not as cut and dried with Lawwell. I'd like him gone, but I'd like the club to retain that seat at the table at European level to try and temper the more overzealous plans your Barcas, Inters, Bayerns and Charlie Stillitano actually have for the future of the UEFA club competitions. He then needs to lose all control of the football side of things if nothing else. No good a European League if he's still buying in duds for the manager.
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Forza
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25 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
Post #7130
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:46 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:24 AM
ETims posted this last night.
To those who are more in the know about these things, are these figures accurate?
Can't speak for the earlier years (they look right), but the last three are correct. All of this information is in the Annual Report and his overall annual remuneration has been a few, pathetic, tokenistic pounds short of £1m p.a. for the last three years. 2012 is a total embarrassment. He got a golden handcuffs deal when Arsenal came calling in 2008. You'll see his remuneration rises rapidly from 2008 onwards. We are paying him too much, but we are paying him now as much for him being on the UEFA Club Competitions Committee (hugely influential in shaping the future composition of the Champions League) and on the Exectuive Board of the European Club Association. The ECA is already dominant on the CCC, but it basically shapes its own psoition within the ECA beforehand. What I am saying is that it is unfortunately not as cut and dried with Lawwell. I'd like him gone, but I'd like the club to retain that seat at the table at European level to try and temper the more overzealous plans your Barcas, Inters, Bayerns and Charlie Stillitano actually have for the future of the UEFA club competitions.
His job is to first and foremost make sure we are operating at the maximum level possible within our budget, everything else comes afterwards. He's failing miserably when it comes to what we pay him for, and if you think he really has any sway amongst your Barcas, Inters etc you're deluding yourself. Deluding myself? Ok mate.
The point is, if you think his role on both the CCC and ECA does not complicate his exit, and does not factor into the Celtic Board's estimations as to mutually consenting Lawwell, YOU'RE deluding yourself.
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tenerifetim
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25 Apr 2016, 09:59 AM
Post #7131
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- aldo
- 25 Apr 2016, 12:44 AM
- LoveCeltic
- 24 Apr 2016, 09:23 PM
What's the story about Lawwell going into the dressing room after the game today?
Yes, someone care to spell this out or direct me to a post it's in, please? Ta In the Hootsman .
Celtic fans protest as Ronny Deila plays down Lawwell visit
Spoiler: click to toggle Celtic fans protest as Ronny Deila plays down Lawwell visit Celtic fans make their feelings known before yesterdays match. Picture: PA Celtic fans make their feelings known before yesterdays match. Picture: PA STEPHEN HALLIDAY
Ronny Deila played down the significance of a post-match visit to the Celtic dressing room by the club’s chief executive Peter Lawwell on an afternoon of discord and protest for the Scottish champions and insisted he has no intention of accelerating his departure as manager.
Lawwell, who, along with major shareholder Dermot Desmond, had been the subject of criticism in the form of a giant banner displayed by fans before kick-off, made his way into the home dressing room after Deila’s team had toiled
to a 1-1 draw against Ross County.
There have been things beyond football this week and of course that affected the players a little bit Ronny Deila
It leaves Celtic nine points clear of Aberdeen at the top of the Premiership with four games of the campaign remaining.
Their vastly superior goal difference over the Dons means they can effectively wrap up the club’s fifth successive title with a victory against Hearts at Tynecastle on Saturday.
But the mood of the Celtic support remains mutinous in the wake of the Scottish Cup semi-final defeat by Rangers which preceded last week’s announcement that Deila will step down as manager at the end of the season. The Norwegian, who felt the atmosphere around the club had a detrimental effect on his players yesterday, stressed that Lawwell’s appearance in the dressing room was not related to his own position.
“He spoke to me, not the players,” said Deila. “But we talk together all the time. It’s nothing new. It’s not like I’m going to quit tomorrow. I’m going to stay here until the end of the season and do everything to get over the line and perform better than we did today. I didn’t see the banners before the game. But as I’ve said before, this club is a special place. There are enormous demands here.
“To be a team which has been in European finals and then see the way it is now – it’s a different time.
“There are always going to be disagreements. But it is important when we play games that we stay together.
“But I understand there are different opinions about things.
“It’s not helping, I can assure you of that. You can see it in some of the confidence of the boys. But this is the circumstances right now and I can understand the fans. Of course it doesn’t help them.
“A lot happened this week. It’s about more than just what is going on on the park. It’s not easy to play under, but it’s something we have to deal with.
“I worried before the game about this, but you always do that. There have been a lot of other things beyond football this week and of course that affected the players a little bit.
“Now we are three points away and nine points ahead and you see, also, that Aberdeen lost at the weekend as well.
“It’s not easy to just go out and beat every team and just win. A lot of people are starting to get more tired, but now we have to stick together, work hard and have fun in the last four games.
“We need to get the best out of each other and then hope we have the quality to get over the line in a good way.”
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Dogg
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25 Apr 2016, 10:04 AM
Post #7132
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- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:46 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
His job is to first and foremost make sure we are operating at the maximum level possible within our budget, everything else comes afterwards. He's failing miserably when it comes to what we pay him for, and if you think he really has any sway amongst your Barcas, Inters etc you're deluding yourself.
Deluding myself? Ok mate. The point is, if you think his role on both the CCC and ECA does not complicate his exit, and does not factor into the Celtic Board's estimations as to mutually consenting Lawwell, YOU'RE deluding yourself. Did I say it would be easy to get rid of him? No so wind your neck in, mate.
My point was that his increased remuneration linked to his roles at the CCC and ECA is, in the grand scheme of things, a waste as the club and him have very little chance of changing, or stopping, the bigger clubs from doing what they want if they really set their mind to something.
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LoveCeltic
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25 Apr 2016, 10:05 AM
Post #7133
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First name on the team-sheet
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- tinytim81
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:36 AM
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- 25 Apr 2016, 09:32 AM
- Marado
- 25 Apr 2016, 08:43 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But we can afford the same wages for a CEO as those down south? Villarreal pay the same in transfer fees as us and they would thump us if we played tomorrow.
Yeah but the wages are much higher. You can't just look at the transfer fees in isolation. Higher wages tend to mean much better players. They spread their budget over 23 players. We must have circa 30 players. There's money there that if used effectively, which Lawwell and Park cant conspire to do.
I also doubt their CEO is on 2% of their turnover.
The point is they have a not dis-similar budget yet can attract these players.
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paulfg42
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25 Apr 2016, 10:06 AM
Post #7134
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:04 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Deluding myself? Ok mate. The point is, if you think his role on both the CCC and ECA does not complicate his exit, and does not factor into the Celtic Board's estimations as to mutually consenting Lawwell, YOU'RE deluding yourself.
Did I say it would be easy to get rid of him? No so wind your neck in, mate. My point was that his increased remuneration linked to his roles at the CCC and ECA is, in the grand scheme of things, a waste as the club and him have very little chance of changing, or stopping, the bigger clubs from doing what they want if they really set their mind to something. Is his increased remuneration linked to his membership of those organisations? Was he not getting stupid amounts of money long before that?
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Smiley
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25 Apr 2016, 10:14 AM
Post #7135
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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https://twitter.com/CollectCelticFC/status/724506125522067456
lol
Edited by Smiley, 25 Apr 2016, 10:15 AM.
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Forza
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25 Apr 2016, 10:35 AM
Post #7136
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:04 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:50 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Deluding myself? Ok mate. The point is, if you think his role on both the CCC and ECA does not complicate his exit, and does not factor into the Celtic Board's estimations as to mutually consenting Lawwell, YOU'RE deluding yourself.
Did I say it would be easy to get rid of him? No so wind your neck in, mate. My point was that his increased remuneration linked to his roles at the CCC and ECA is, in the grand scheme of things, a waste as the club and him have very little chance of changing, or stopping, the bigger clubs from doing what they want if they really set their mind to something. That's not really how it works. You don't get into these positions without having a bit of respect at these levels (regardless of how you are perceived at home), and in turn achieving some clout. There are 15 people in total on the ECA Board. There's 220 member clubs of the ECA. There's only a similar number of committee members on the CCC. There's over 500 clubs (and probably more) who would be eligible to have someone on that committee.
It was reported recently that Celtic appeared to be working on something related to the structure of either club competitions or regional leagues with the Dutch representatives at the very least. Similarly, it is not just happy accident that we are the only club playing home or close to home fixtures in Charlie Stillitano's International Champions Cup.
It appears that this is seen as an attempt at counterbalancing the more harebrained nonsense we've heard over the last few months about Big 5 wild cards and closed shops. I'd rather our involvement in this continued to completely undermine this garbage.
On the park he is busy making us less credible. I am not suggesting I like it any more than anyone else, but the fact of the matter is that Celtic are paying Lawwell to be in these positions, as much as they are for having Brian Marwood and Dudu Dahan on speed dial.
So if he can sit as a NED (or in some other reduced capacity) on these bodies, then maybe all the better.
I know this is all ancillary to what we actually want of a CEO, DOF, General Manager which is proper investment in the first team, a competent team at European level and signs of a youth system that delivers good quality for the first team. It's long been established this is not Lawwell's forte, as he's had 13 years at it and we're going backwards. He is only there these days (and paid to the level he is) because of what he brings to the table externally.
Edited by Forza, 25 Apr 2016, 10:37 AM.
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DKB
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25 Apr 2016, 10:50 AM
Post #7137
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I think that PL's wages and bonus can be "accepted" for his work on the football club - debt are gone and financially things looks brighter - the big problem is that he seems to have a deciding vote on who to buy and not buy, he should never be in that position. Don't know if it is the "scare" of Thomas Gravesen that has promoted him into that position so another manager won't "waste" money on a big buy without him having the option to veto the deal or not, but he is in no way qualified to make such deals, and teaming up with John Park that has nothing to do with team management doesn't help that.
Leave the football side of the club to others and work on the finances/behind the scenes with UEFA/FIFA/????? and things would be far better IMO
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Dogg
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25 Apr 2016, 10:53 AM
Post #7138
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- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:35 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:04 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 09:56 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Did I say it would be easy to get rid of him? No so wind your neck in, mate. My point was that his increased remuneration linked to his roles at the CCC and ECA is, in the grand scheme of things, a waste as the club and him have very little chance of changing, or stopping, the bigger clubs from doing what they want if they really set their mind to something.
That's not really how it works. You don't get into these positions without having a bit of respect at these levels (regardless of how you are perceived at home), and in turn achieving some clout. There are 15 people in total on the ECA Board. There's 220 member clubs of the ECA. There's only a similar number of committee members on the CCC. There's over 500 clubs (and probably more) who would be eligible to have someone on that committee. It was reported recently that Celtic appeared to be working on something related to the structure of either club competitions or regional leagues with the Dutch representatives at the very least. Similarly, it is not just happy accident that we are the only club playing home or close to home fixtures in Charlie Stillitano's International Champions Cup. It appears that this is seen as an attempt at counterbalancing the more harebrained nonsense we've heard over the last few months about Big 5 wild cards and closed shops. I'd rather our involvement in this continued to completely undermine this garbage. On the park he is busy making us less credible. I am not suggesting I like it any more than anyone else, but the fact of the matter is that Celtic are paying Lawwell to be in these positions, as much as they are for having Brian Marwood and Dudu Dahan on speed dial. So if he can sit as a NED (or in some other reduced capacity) on these bodies, then maybe all the better. I know this is all ancillary to what we actually want of a CEO, DOF, General Manager which is proper investment in the first team, a competent team at European level and signs of a youth system that delivers good quality for the first team. It's long been established this is not Lawwell's forte, as he's had 13 years at it and we're gonig backwards. He is only there these days because of what he brings to the table externally. Lawwell will need to produce a shampoo ton of rabbits out the hat to come close to earning the remuneration he receives, home ties in some PR tournament, which will cost the fans more money, and reports of something maybe happening about club competition structures really aren't good enough.
Why should our fans be the ones funding the 'possibility' that he is part of some counter-balance to the big clubs greed?
2% of our turnover goes straight in his pocket and to be perfectly honest icgaf how much 'clout' we have at these old boys networks when we're relying on Aberdeen being too shampoo to win the one-horse league we're in.
As it stands if Lawwell really is making a difference to European structures we probably won't benefit as he's running us into the ground to make sure the balance sheet gives him his bonus.
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sevilliano
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25 Apr 2016, 11:11 AM
Post #7139
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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- Bryan67
- 24 Apr 2016, 10:30 AM
- henrikmc2
- 23 Apr 2016, 09:21 PM
Darroch replacing Lawwell?
So we already have our new FD from Deloitte and possibly a lawyer of a CEO. I guess it's different from the usual jobs for the boys mantra our board have. Fresh ideas should be welcomed. He's an accountant and not simply for that reason - not what we need
But he is definitely in the frame
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Forza
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25 Apr 2016, 11:12 AM
Post #7140
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- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:53 AM
- Forza
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:35 AM
- Dogg
- 25 Apr 2016, 10:04 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's not really how it works. You don't get into these positions without having a bit of respect at these levels (regardless of how you are perceived at home), and in turn achieving some clout. There are 15 people in total on the ECA Board. There's 220 member clubs of the ECA. There's only a similar number of committee members on the CCC. There's over 500 clubs (and probably more) who would be eligible to have someone on that committee. It was reported recently that Celtic appeared to be working on something related to the structure of either club competitions or regional leagues with the Dutch representatives at the very least. Similarly, it is not just happy accident that we are the only club playing home or close to home fixtures in Charlie Stillitano's International Champions Cup. It appears that this is seen as an attempt at counterbalancing the more harebrained nonsense we've heard over the last few months about Big 5 wild cards and closed shops. I'd rather our involvement in this continued to completely undermine this garbage. On the park he is busy making us less credible. I am not suggesting I like it any more than anyone else, but the fact of the matter is that Celtic are paying Lawwell to be in these positions, as much as they are for having Brian Marwood and Dudu Dahan on speed dial. So if he can sit as a NED (or in some other reduced capacity) on these bodies, then maybe all the better. I know this is all ancillary to what we actually want of a CEO, DOF, General Manager which is proper investment in the first team, a competent team at European level and signs of a youth system that delivers good quality for the first team. It's long been established this is not Lawwell's forte, as he's had 13 years at it and we're gonig backwards. He is only there these days because of what he brings to the table externally.
Lawwell will need to produce a shampoo ton of rabbits out the hat to come close to earning the remuneration he receives, home ties in some PR tournament, which will cost the fans more money, and reports of something maybe happening about club competition structures really aren't good enough. Why should our fans be the ones funding the 'possibility' that he is part of some counter-balance to the big clubs greed? 2% of our turnover goes straight in his pocket and to be perfectly honest icgaf how much 'clout' we have at these old boys networks when we're relying on Aberdeen being too shampoo to win the one-horse league we're in. As it stands if Lawwell really is making a difference to European structures we probably won't benefit as he's running us into the ground to make sure the balance sheet gives him his bonus. All I am offering is a reasonable, relevant counter balance as to why his dismissal is likely more complicated, at least at some level. One that is likely to be occupying Board members minds before they go angrily typing up his letter of dismissal on the back of seeing a few banners.
He goes to Sunderland or elsewhere, we likely lose that place at the table, at a time ironically when on the park he has left us with as little clout as we'll likely ever have, and when Scotland is in its lowest coefficient position ever. Catch 22.
Good luck replacing that easily. It would be a pretty isolationist move. It's not untypical of Scottish football to look down and in, when things are going wrong for our game.
Changes to these things happen at glacier like pace. The reporting of the recent Stillitano comments, and the closed shop idea was largely laughed out of town. The wishes of Inter, Bayern and Barca are running out of time to have any sort of chance of being accepted in time for the next Club Competition cycle,2017-2020. Who knows who has had success in slowing that talk down? Similarly, The Atlantic League was first talked about in 2000.
It's undoubtedly going to be looked upon as a squirrel (Oh look! you can't get rid of me, I'm going to deliver the CL in perpetuity!) but I struggle to see an unknown replacement quickly assuming that role where we have some say, any say in what football looks like in future. Whether Lawwell's ego would withstand a stripping of his power in a football sense and a drastic wage reduction is another thing. Probably not when there are apparently other suitors out there.
The first thing the Board need, and get paid to provide, is to provide a succession plan. What does a post-Lawwell Celtic look like? What does it mean for our relationships externally? Who knows, maybe that's what the new Finance Director has come in to do. For example, if the Director of Football position is seen as important to the club, we need a real one, not Peter's Champ Manager largesse.
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