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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,415,023 Views)
Stringer Bell
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Getting on a bit
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Hugo's Boss
15 Jul 2014, 11:16 AM
I'm happy with the board overall. Yeah, we don't splash funds on marquee signings on a yearly basis but the financial management of the club is sound. It means we can 'afford' to miss out on the Champions League for a season or so with no real issue - in financial terms anyhow.

I agree with others in that I'd be happy if we, at times, were more prepared to spend an extra £500k-1m to land a player who has proved to be a success elsewhere rather than sign 'projects' or players from clubs below us as cheaper alternatives.
The first part here is one of my main gripes with the board. PL loves to roll the financial dice at this time of year, hoping we have enough to get through the qualifiers and then we'll buy some players. It's barmy. Spend the money now and give ourselves the best possible chance. Yes, most of the teams we'll play in the qualifiers are diddies, but last season should be the warning we needed.
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sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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Stringer Bell
15 Jul 2014, 11:31 AM
Hugo's Boss
15 Jul 2014, 11:16 AM
I'm happy with the board overall. Yeah, we don't splash funds on marquee signings on a yearly basis but the financial management of the club is sound. It means we can 'afford' to miss out on the Champions League for a season or so with no real issue - in financial terms anyhow.

I agree with others in that I'd be happy if we, at times, were more prepared to spend an extra £500k-1m to land a player who has proved to be a success elsewhere rather than sign 'projects' or players from clubs below us as cheaper alternatives.
The first part here is one of my main gripes with the board. PL loves to roll the financial dice at this time of year, hoping we have enough to get through the qualifiers and then we'll buy some players. It's barmy. Spend the money now and give ourselves the best possible chance. Yes, most of the teams we'll play in the qualifiers are diddies, but last season should be the warning we needed.
totally agree on this

last year v Karagandy should be a real warning - and then we had a steady management team

hvaing changed management and leaving RD hanging out there does not appear to be backing him but rather the usual PL roulette
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yaweedurty
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GetFunky
15 Jul 2014, 10:57 AM
yaweedurty
15 Jul 2014, 10:41 AM
What exactly is this living wage thing we're talking about?
http://slw.povertyalliance.org/about_us

The Scottish Living Wage Campaign was established in the autumn of 2007 following a conference organised by the Poverty Alliance in Glasgow. Following this, a steering group was established for the campaign, working hard over the past seven years to build support.
Learning from the success of the London Living Wage Campaign, which estimates to have put £24million back in the pockets of low paid workers since its launch in 2001, the campaign has gone from strength to strength.
Glasgow City Council was the first employer to receive the Scottish Living Wage Employer Award in 2009. Many other large employers such as SSE have committed to pay all their staff the Scottish Living Wage.
The campaign has been working with the Living Wage Foundation to encourage employers to go through the recognised accreditation process, ensuring that not only directly employed staff but also those who are subcontracted are ultimately covered by the living wage.
The number of accredited employers is increasing across the UK, with some recent notable Scottish employers including SSE plc, Falkirk Council and West Dunbartonshire CVS. Over the coming year the number of accredited employers in Scotland will increase as the Poverty Alliance implements the Living Wage Accreditation Project, funded by the Scottish Government.
Given Celtics charitable contributions and a the majority of the working class fans that pretty deplorable.
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Midfield Maestro
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greenjedi
15 Jul 2014, 09:20 AM
They're doing a good job in tough times.

I have to laugh at guys who demand we spend money we don't have. We've dropped almost 33% in attendances in just over 10 years and if that picked up we could spend more, but it won't as the fair weather fan is only intertested in going when we splash out on big names. Its a vicious circle
Bang on in relation to spending v attendances. :thumbsup:
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ChillerBee
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Time for the medicine
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Relatively happy.

I would like to see increased investment in the academy, though. Slightly over a million pounds p/a isn't a particularly significant investment for a club of our size.
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Corky Buczek
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GetFunky
15 Jul 2014, 11:14 AM
Corky Buczek
15 Jul 2014, 11:09 AM
Overall OK

We cannot compete against clubs from bigger nations and we all accept that. Don't want to see us go into debt. Happy with DD as main shareholder. No problem Bankier as chairman. Communication with fans is generally passable.

However

We have signed enough projects - if a top player leaves why not try and replace him with someone that can walk into the team

PL is grossly overpaid as Herbert points out

Reduces the cost of food and beverages on match day (they are a complete rip off)

and pay the living wage
We've replaced players with who have left with players who have walked into the team.

VVD replaced Kelvin Wilson
Johansen replaced Wanyama
Griffiths was the eventual replacement for Hooper.

My only issue with this is the downsizing.
I would argue :-

Johansen & Griffiths are not replacements for either Wanyama or Hooper - totally different type of players
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Shuggie Edvaldsson
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Joxer_Daly
15 Jul 2014, 09:39 AM
sevilliano
15 Jul 2014, 06:42 AM
mr green sky
15 Jul 2014, 12:46 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This is the crucial point (agree with everything else said by you and TW) and where the board need to up their game

Scandanavian league, the initiatives in Belarus (think politics may stop that) all point the way fwd for the board to deliver a UK cup or Celtic summer league or north sea league or such like - anything to bring about change in environmentb

O/wise we are effed
What are the Belarus initiatives? I missed that story.
This maybe? Was all I could find. Seems like a good idea. Definitely one for the long term, though.
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Dannybhoy95
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Champions Again Olé, Olé
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We could do much better.

Wouldn't give an eff if Lawwell left. He's done an excellent job in completely dwarfing fan expectations.
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colwell1888
First team training
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Corky Buczek
15 Jul 2014, 11:49 AM
GetFunky
15 Jul 2014, 11:14 AM
Corky Buczek
15 Jul 2014, 11:09 AM
Overall OK

We cannot compete against clubs from bigger nations and we all accept that. Don't want to see us go into debt. Happy with DD as main shareholder. No problem Bankier as chairman. Communication with fans is generally passable.

However

We have signed enough projects - if a top player leaves why not try and replace him with someone that can walk into the team

PL is grossly overpaid as Herbert points out

Reduces the cost of food and beverages on match day (they are a complete rip off)

and pay the living wage
We've replaced players with who have left with players who have walked into the team.

VVD replaced Kelvin Wilson
Johansen replaced Wanyama
Griffiths was the eventual replacement for Hooper.

My only issue with this is the downsizing.
I would argue :-

Johansen & Griffiths are not replacements for either Wanyama or Hooper - totally different type of players
Aye but they've replaced them in the starting 11.
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popeyed
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duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
He'll be waiting on his testimonial.

Lawwell's Lions vs an Olivier Kapo XI.
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Ben Kenobi
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It's been mentioned before but worth pointing out again; VVD wasn't brought in as Wilson's replacement.
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Corky Buczek
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popeyed
15 Jul 2014, 12:57 PM
duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
He'll be waiting on his testimonial.

Lawwell's Lions vs an Olivier Kapo XI.
He got one when he "knocked back" the Arsenal job.

Got an LTIP payment of £650k in 2011 on top of salary and other bonuses
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McStay
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popeyed
15 Jul 2014, 12:57 PM
duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
He'll be waiting on his testimonial.

Lawwell's Lions vs an Olivier Kapo XI.
:lol:

Which team is Ljungberg playing for?
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Mrs HF4Ls Biggest fan
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Generally we are well run. However, some of the decisions that have been taken are short sighted at best.

As others have mentioned, last season failing to sign anyone before the qualifiers was a huge risk that was a shot off the woodwork away from causing us to miss out on the CL. Mental decision in my view.

We then had Lennon talking about getting deals done at the January window so the same thing didn't happen. Maybe I missed all those first team ready players we signed in January.

Then it was we will get them done early in the window. Except the manager left and we haven't signed anyone bar a new second choice keeper.

So basically we are repeating the :twitch: approach to the qualifiers.

My other complaints on the signing front are two fold. We have thrown a great deal of money away on a number of (cliche alert) works in progress. Rolling that money in to one proper signing would have been a better approach. It certainly couldn't have been worse.

The other complaint is the lack of imagination and slavishly following the buy them cheap/sell them on option. There has to be the possibility of picking up the odd experienced player, even if it is own loan. That would help bring on the team as a whole.

Both of those would also help arrest the decline in attendance. If the board don't watch, they could have a vicious circle of declining ticket sales, no CL, falling turnover etc etc etc
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kingbhoyd
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Corky Buczek
15 Jul 2014, 01:14 PM
popeyed
15 Jul 2014, 12:57 PM
duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
He'll be waiting on his testimonial.

Lawwell's Lions vs an Olivier Kapo XI.
He got one when he "knocked back" the Arsenal job.

Got an LTIP payment of £650k in 2011 on top of salary and other bonuses
The Ltip was payable at the end of four years, so the agreement predated his salary increase. There was an additional amount agreed after he turned down the arsenal job but he was due a large payout as part of a standard agreement that Eric Riley also benefitted from
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duffsticks
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mikebhoy
15 Jul 2014, 11:14 AM
duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
Post #15 on page 1 :thumbsup:
Pah, I don't read threads before weighing in with my ill-considered opinion.

That's for wimps.
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Corky Buczek
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kingbhoyd
15 Jul 2014, 01:39 PM
Corky Buczek
15 Jul 2014, 01:14 PM
popeyed
15 Jul 2014, 12:57 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He got one when he "knocked back" the Arsenal job.

Got an LTIP payment of £650k in 2011 on top of salary and other bonuses
The Ltip was payable at the end of four years, so the agreement predated his salary increase. There was an additional amount agreed after he turned down the arsenal job but he was due a large payout as part of a standard agreement that Eric Riley also benefitted from
Fine it wasn't for "knocking back" the Arsenal gig. A totally OTT payment none the less for merely staying to do his job :rolleyes:
Edited by Corky Buczek, 15 Jul 2014, 02:04 PM.
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Auldyin
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Mubo Loravcik
15 Jul 2014, 12:36 AM
Tim Waits
15 Jul 2014, 12:24 AM
Excellent financial management overall. The long-term strategy is conservative and while that minimizes risk it means that improvement in the team is slow and sometimes erratic. All that I can live with easily. But decisions like killing the living wage initiative are penny wise and pound foolish (as well as morally questionable) in a business where you rely on the goodwill of your support as much as Celtic does.
Pretty much agree although sadly I think the board are out of touch and people like Peter Lawwell, while good business wise, are manipulators in the style of New Labour in its infancy; cringe-worthy slogans and using all the nice language (Celtic family, more than a club). This was exemplified by their disgraceful refusal to implement the Living Wage initiative. And I won't even touch the issue of Lord Reid being chairman prior to Bankier.

I also can't abide the 'at least we won't die like the Rangers' retort to the slightest bit of questioning on our transfer policy. I do think it's the correct and only road we can go down and I have no problem with selling the likes of Wanyama for an 8 figure fee, but it needs tweaked. I also think the board need to grasp that perhaps fans are apathetic - shown by decline in attendances - because Leigh Griffiths, Teemu Pukki, Amido Balde or even 'Tony' Stokes don't excite the punters. For all our domestic dominance, I just want one striker worthy of the name and one winger supplying said striker who isn't inconsistent, perma-injured or an imposter.

Is that too much to ask?




On the Living Wage I missed out on the background and reasons when it all took place. Recently someone suggested they would be happy to pay for it via an increase in their ST and I thought that the cost of doing it and the funding of that cost was missing from the resolution which said:

” 11. This AGM instructs the PLC Board to take all necessary steps to make Celtic Football Club a Living Wage employer by ensuring that all employees are paid a minimum rate of £7.45 per hour and to upgrade this annually in line with the Scottish Living Wage Campaign recommendations. Celtic FC would become the first football club in the UK to do so and will set an example to both sporting employers and the wider business community in the country.”


The actual cost was not established beforehand but the following Resolution would cover the point to fund via the season ticket.

” 11. This AGM instructs the PLC Board to make Celtic Football Club a Living Wage employer by ensuring that all employees are paid a minimum rate of £X.XX (7.45) per hour funded by a corresponding increase on individual tickets spread across the adult ticket range and to upgrade the Living Wage and the cost of doing so annually in line with the Scottish Living Wage Campaign recommendations. If Ticket sale income drops below the cost of funding a Living Wage in year one and subsequent annual increases then the Living Wage or annual increase will not be implemented in that sales season. Celtic FC would become the first football club in the UK to do so and will set an example to sporting employers, other clubs and the wider business community in the country.

Celtic would then be in a position in their response to indicate to shareholders how much tickets would increase by and shareholders could vote in the knowledge of the cost to them of what they were committing the club to do.

Alternatively you fund payment from CL Group stage money in the form of an end of season bonus equivalent to what anyone below the Living wage would have got had it been in force in that season year ending.

Whatever way you slice and dice it the cost and funding has to be part of the debate rather than the club taking the necessary steps with no feel for how they would be received. As a shareholder I would want all the information before deciding which way to vote so that I knew what I was voting for.
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Stephane_Mahe
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As frustrating as it is, it's hard to argue against the conservative way that we operate in the transfer market. The one change I'd like to see on that front is the purchase of one player for £3million rather than 3 players for £1million - we are in bad habit of stockpiling poor players.

It's the non-footballing issues like the living wage, treatment of the GB, lack of doing anything about Griffiths etc where I think the board are really poor.
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popeyed
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McStay
15 Jul 2014, 01:17 PM
popeyed
15 Jul 2014, 12:57 PM
duffsticks
15 Jul 2014, 11:03 AM
Slightly concerned that no-one has gently suggested to Lawwell that despite his many years of good service, 10 years as a director is pushing the boundaries of good corporate governance.

I appreciate he's probably a fan and I assume he enjoys the work, but a relatively regular turn-over of ideas at the head of an organisation is almost always for the best.
He'll be waiting on his testimonial.

Lawwell's Lions vs an Olivier Kapo XI.
:lol:

Which team is Ljungberg playing for?
Half each. :lol:
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