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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,997 Views)
Lobey Dosser
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Considering retirement
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arklys
31 Jul 2014, 01:28 PM
All I can see is these frustrating circular problems.

The budget for buying decent players is limited because crowds are dwindling. Crowds are dwindling because the team is shampooe.

We can't attract good players without the Champions League. We struggle to qualify for the Champions League because we don't have good players.

I really don't know the answer.
These are the typical sorts of problems business boards throughout the country face daily. Nothing unique at all.

The answer is to engage a board who have the skills, experience and mind sets to overcome the problems.

I wish our board would note that complacency is not a business strategy, nor is hope.
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idyllwild


Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:23 PM
Buy high, sell even higher works well for clubs like Porto, Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk, who sell their best players most summers but spend decent cash on replacements and the process starts again. Don't know why we can't follow that model.
they all have much much more money than us to owners and tv deals

porto have already spent 32m euros this summer
Porto are actually are a similar size to us.

What we need to do is spend a wee bit more on the replacement than we paid for the guy we've just sold. Then when we punt him, our selling price should have a similar uplift.

That's the theory.

Instead, we spend less on the replacement, and get less money when we sell him further down the line. We dilute the quality of our team with every round of this process.

The vast majority of our signings are cut-price downgrades on the person they're replacing. And we've been doing this for almost a decade. It's a feckin miracle that we've managed the occasional decent showing in Europe.
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One sharp cookie
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Greenock_Celt
31 Jul 2014, 01:41 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:32 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The reason Porto have spent €32 m is because they've raked in a fortune selling Fernando, Moutinho and Rodriguez in the past year. If we speculated to accumulate like they do, we could be the same.
They can get their hands on Brazillian players and let them play to their style much easier than we can.

Porto and Benfica also play in a better/much more competitive league than we do which adds value as well. There is no chance in hell of us spending even the 6 million we paid for Sutton and Lennon back in the day never mind double figures.
Not all their signings are South American. Benfica spent several millions on Markovic from Partizan Belgrade two years and have just sold him for £20 million to Liverpool. There's absolutely no reason why we couldn't be in the market for these kind of players.
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Mickeybhoy84
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Is it maybe time to break the wage structure for certain players? We keep hearing from Lawell that a £6million player is doable but we all know there isn't a £6million player out there that will accept under 30 grand a week in wages. Signing good players requires spending the sort of money good players expect.
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LoveCeltic
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:23 PM
Buy high, sell even higher works well for clubs like Porto, Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk, who sell their best players most summers but spend decent cash on replacements and the process starts again. Don't know why we can't follow that model.
they all have much much more money than us to owners and tv deals

porto have already spent 32m euros this summer
Porto and Benfica (as well as Ajax and the like) also have good youngsters ready waiting to take some players place before they sell, either that or they have a well identified target lined up. We tend to have neither lined up and that is why we fail.

We tend to scattergun tiny amounts on several players and hope one comes good. Its doomed to fail as we build up the failures and sell the ones that turn out good with no viable replacements lined up.
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Zurawski 7
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One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:55 PM
Greenock_Celt
31 Jul 2014, 01:41 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They can get their hands on Brazillian players and let them play to their style much easier than we can.

Porto and Benfica also play in a better/much more competitive league than we do which adds value as well. There is no chance in hell of us spending even the 6 million we paid for Sutton and Lennon back in the day never mind double figures.
Not all their signings are South American. Benfica spent several millions on Markovic from Partizan Belgrade two years and have just sold him for £20 million to Liverpool. There's absolutely no reason why we couldn't be in the market for these kind of players.
they paid over 5m and only joint owned him 50%

we cant afford to speculate to accumulate anywhere near that level if it all
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Zurawski 7
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 01:54 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:23 PM
Buy high, sell even higher works well for clubs like Porto, Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk, who sell their best players most summers but spend decent cash on replacements and the process starts again. Don't know why we can't follow that model.
they all have much much more money than us to owners and tv deals

porto have already spent 32m euros this summer
Porto are actually are a similar size to us.

What we need to do is spend a wee bit more on the replacement than we paid for the guy we've just sold. Then when we punt him, our selling price should have a similar uplift.

That's the theory.

Instead, we spend less on the replacement, and get less money when we sell him further down the line. We dilute the quality of our team with every round of this process.

The vast majority of our signings are cut-price downgrades on the person they're replacing. And we've been doing this for almost a decade. It's a feckin miracle that we've managed the occasional decent showing in Europe.
we tried to sign rudnevs to replace hooper. hed have cost more than hooper initally did but he refused to come here even though he was stuck in hamburg reserves

so i dont think its us automatically targetting cheaper players but trying to get the best we can convince to come here
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One sharp cookie
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:58 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:55 PM
Greenock_Celt
31 Jul 2014, 01:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Not all their signings are South American. Benfica spent several millions on Markovic from Partizan Belgrade two years and have just sold him for £20 million to Liverpool. There's absolutely no reason why we couldn't be in the market for these kind of players.
they paid over 5m and only joint owned him 50%

we cant afford to speculate to accumulate anywhere near that level if it all
Of course we could - especially if we were selling players for more than £10 million every year. Unfortunately too many fans have been brainwashed into a "think small" mentality. If Porto and Benfica can come up with a business strategy which allows them to buy big there's absolutely no reason why a club of our size can't.
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idyllwild


Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:01 PM
idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 01:54 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Porto are actually are a similar size to us.

What we need to do is spend a wee bit more on the replacement than we paid for the guy we've just sold. Then when we punt him, our selling price should have a similar uplift.

That's the theory.

Instead, we spend less on the replacement, and get less money when we sell him further down the line. We dilute the quality of our team with every round of this process.

The vast majority of our signings are cut-price downgrades on the person they're replacing. And we've been doing this for almost a decade. It's a feckin miracle that we've managed the occasional decent showing in Europe.
we tried to sign rudnevs to replace hooper. hed have cost more than hooper initally did but he refused to come here even though he was stuck in hamburg reserves

so i dont think its us automatically targetting cheaper players but trying to get the best we can convince to come here
Nah, this happens all the time, and has done for years. We're not downsizing by accident.

And if we are, then I'd question the ability of the club's executives even more than at present.
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One sharp cookie
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Some players will come, some won't. If you offer enough money, most players will have no problem playing in Scotland. You only need to look at the amount of Brazilians playing in Russia and Ukraine to realise players will go where the money is, irrespective of the quality of the league or weather.
Edited by One sharp cookie, 31 Jul 2014, 02:07 PM.
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Zurawski 7
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One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:58 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:55 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
they paid over 5m and only joint owned him 50%

we cant afford to speculate to accumulate anywhere near that level if it all
Of course we could - especially if we were selling players for more than £10 million every year. Unfortunately too many fans have been brainwashed into a "think small" mentality. If Porto and Benfica can come up with a business strategy which allows them to buy big there's absolutely no reason why a club of our size can't.
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
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idyllwild


Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:06 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Of course we could - especially if we were selling players for more than £10 million every year. Unfortunately too many fans have been brainwashed into a "think small" mentality. If Porto and Benfica can come up with a business strategy which allows them to buy big there's absolutely no reason why a club of our size can't.
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
Of course it's a comparable situation. We actually are of a similar size to these clubs.

The difference is the scale at which we choose to operate, which is entirely our own doing.
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One sharp cookie
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:06 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Of course we could - especially if we were selling players for more than £10 million every year. Unfortunately too many fans have been brainwashed into a "think small" mentality. If Porto and Benfica can come up with a business strategy which allows them to buy big there's absolutely no reason why a club of our size can't.
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
The only reason we won't be doing it anytime soon is because we're not buying players of sufficient quality/potential. And the Portuguese league is generally an awful league with three good teams - not a million miles away from what the SPL was just a few years back. Most of the clubs operate on shoestring budgets.
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Midfield Maestro
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:56 PM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jul 2014, 12:44 PM
Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Of course there are ways of committing fraud (which is effectively what you are suggesting). But you have no evidence and no reason to suspect that anyone at Celtic is involved in anything approaching that kind of activity. This is complete zoomer stuff. Celtic is actually the most transparently run football club in the UK (it being the only one still listed on a UK exchange, other than Rangers) whether you agree with the board's decisions or not.

The average football supporter isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer indeed.
Well you can continue to spend time and money going to watch a sub standard team on the park while the board keeps the money or whatever. And I believe an executive who is paid more than most players is fraud/theft so I'm right either way.
:lol:

Just because you believe something does not make it so. You are not right. You are utterly wrong.

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Zurawski 7
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 02:09 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:06 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
Of course it's a comparable situation. We actually are of a similar size to these clubs.

The difference is the scale at which we choose to operate, which is entirely our own doing.
the differences are huge.

it is completely unrealistic to expect to operate in the same way as these teams. seriously, look at the transfer fees both teams pay year after year then look at the tv money they recieve
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Zurawski 7
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One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:10 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:06 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
The only reason we won't be doing it anytime soon is because we're not buying players of sufficient quality/potential. And the Portuguese league is generally an awful league with three good teams - not a million miles away from what the SPL was just a few years back. Most of the clubs operate on shoestring budgets.
we wont be buying players of sufficent quality and potential because 99.9% of the time its simply not possible
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SaMule
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:56 PM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jul 2014, 12:44 PM
Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Of course there are ways of committing fraud (which is effectively what you are suggesting). But you have no evidence and no reason to suspect that anyone at Celtic is involved in anything approaching that kind of activity. This is complete zoomer stuff. Celtic is actually the most transparently run football club in the UK (it being the only one still listed on a UK exchange, other than Rangers) whether you agree with the board's decisions or not.

The average football supporter isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer indeed.
Well you can continue to spend time and money going to watch a sub standard team on the park while the board keeps the money or whatever. And I believe an executive who is paid more than most players is fraud/theft so I'm right either way.
No, you're definitely wrong. Just trust me on this one.
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One sharp cookie
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I just find it depressing that a generation of Celtic fans is growing up with such limited expectations. We're becoming like the Scotland national team, happy just to be competing but no prospects of doing anything but making up the numbers.
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LoveCeltic
First name on the team-sheet
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Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 02:06 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 02:03 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:58 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Of course we could - especially if we were selling players for more than £10 million every year. Unfortunately too many fans have been brainwashed into a "think small" mentality. If Porto and Benfica can come up with a business strategy which allows them to buy big there's absolutely no reason why a club of our size can't.
benfica are a bigger club, play in a much better league, can afford much more expensive transfers and attract young players from south america.

its not being brainwashed to see that its not a comparable situation. we've only ever sold one player for over 10m and i doubt we will be doing it anytime soon nevermind every year
And we spent £700,000 on a project who wasn't ready to replace said £12.5m player.... :cuckoo:
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Midfield Maestro
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 01:54 PM
Zurawski 7
31 Jul 2014, 01:27 PM
One sharp cookie
31 Jul 2014, 01:23 PM
Buy high, sell even higher works well for clubs like Porto, Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk, who sell their best players most summers but spend decent cash on replacements and the process starts again. Don't know why we can't follow that model.
they all have much much more money than us to owners and tv deals

porto have already spent 32m euros this summer
Porto are actually are a similar size to us.

What we need to do is spend a wee bit more on the replacement than we paid for the guy we've just sold. Then when we punt him, our selling price should have a similar uplift.

That's the theory.

Instead, we spend less on the replacement, and get less money when we sell him further down the line. We dilute the quality of our team with every round of this process.

The vast majority of our signings are cut-price downgrades on the person they're replacing. And we've been doing this for almost a decade. It's a feckin miracle that we've managed the occasional decent showing in Europe.
You are bang on here. We buy Hooper for c. £2m and sell him for c. £6m (and we probably should have sold him earlier and got more). Rather than spending £3m or £4m on his replacement (with an eye on turning that into £10m after a few years), we spunked the same amount on Pukki, Griffiths and Balde, none of whom are as good as Hooper and none of whom have any real significant sell-on value.
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