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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,999 Views)
idyllwild


Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
:thumbsup: Any company should have both operational and financial targets.

However, I genuinely struggle to think what our operational targets might be.

Perhaps not entirely unrelated, I'd guess that executive bonuses are driven solely by the financial targets.
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Wanyerma
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beezeypedro
31 Jul 2014, 10:55 AM
Is Celtic just not attractive enough to 'big name players'? Champions league yes, but look at all the other shampoo we have to deal with on a week by week basis.

We don't need big name players. We just need good players.

Couldn't give a toss if they are big names or not.
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Mackin
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The Ginty McGinty genius
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
31 Jul 2014, 11:25 AM
idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 11:06 AM
MILLIGANS ISLAND
31 Jul 2014, 11:01 AM
I don't know what the support expect of the board? The kind of players needed to make instant improvement are out of our price range or just wont come to scotland.

Expect more young foreign players to be brought in and our own youth advanced quicker to the first team. I'm almost certain that is deilas remit.

The clubs made it clear it won't risk our financial position chasing the champions league money - thats what we laugh at rangers for remember ?
Gary Hooper was within our price range and would have stayed in Scotland. We now have Leigh Griffiths.

And are people really still referencing Rangers as some sort of benchmark for Celtic??? :ffs: :lol:
I don't recall stating they were a benchmark. I was saying their strategy was flawed and we would be foolish to follow it.
It isnt an either/or scenario.
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thenakattack
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Getting on a bit
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Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
Agree, i just have this image of Lawwell going and everyone rejoicing only for his replacement to be given the exact same remit and role.
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The Green Lantern
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thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:36 AM
Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
Agree, i just have this image of Lawwell going and everyone rejoicing only for his replacement to be given the exact same remit and role.
They would probably be the business equivalent of Ronny Deila: young; full of ideas; but ultimately willing to operate with zero budget.

If anything, Lawell leaving would be used as a pretext to downsize even further.
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Lobey Dosser
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 11:26 AM
Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
:thumbsup: Any company should have both operational and financial targets.

However, I genuinely struggle to think what our operational targets might be.

Perhaps not entirely unrelated, I'd guess that executive bonuses are driven solely by the financial targets.
I'd guess that you are right about bonus being driven solely by financial targets. I'd also guess Lawwell has in the past been more driven by his own personal reward than by the success of the team, where such success requires a financial outlay which might not be 100% guaranteed.
The manager must have operational targets to achieve. If Lawwell's objectives don't support those of the manager, we have a club running on a Mexican stand-off basis at the operational level.


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Emerald Oracle
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BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
Is there a CQN blog yet telling us it will all be OK and Peter knows what hes doing?
Posted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
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SacredHoops
Getting on a bit
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dazabhoy67
31 Jul 2014, 10:36 AM
SacredHoops
31 Jul 2014, 10:33 AM
Our biggest problem is that we sell our best players and replace them with hopeful, cheap prospects with the idea they might be just as good, and keep a hold of the shampooe that nobody else wants. There doesn't seem to be a single bit of logic or reason to what players are sold - anyone who is wanted is gone. Like just now, I fully expect Van Dijk to be sold, so we should have been getting someone in at the start of the close season to bed in and replace him when he goes. Celtic will sell him, be chuffed to bits with the profit, and then have no carrot to play centre half for half a season.

The same happened with Hooper - gone, no replacement signed. Wanyama - Kayal will take his place. It's a ludicrous approach and shows a board desperate for cash at every turn. When was the last time someone wanted one of our players and we said no, he's staying? I understand the need to bring in money through player sales but it is done massively to the detriment of the team.
We rejected a bid for Forster last week :ph43r:
My point is that he'll go at some point. Celtic have said they want more money, they haven't said he's not for sale.
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CHAPS
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Be aswell downsizing the stadium too.
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Midfield Maestro
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 11:26 AM
Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM
thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
:thumbsup: Any company should have both operational and financial targets.

However, I genuinely struggle to think what our operational targets might be.

Perhaps not entirely unrelated, I'd guess that executive bonuses are driven solely by the financial targets.
Getting to the Champions League group stages is the only genuine operational target that we have (given that the league should be a gimme).

Getting to the Champions League group stages is also the most important plank in ensuring that the club meets its financial targets. The only problem being that getting there paradoxically requires investment.

The board has been playing Russian roulette with these qualifiers for years and our squad is consequently a lot poorer than it was two years ago. The policy of "buy low, sell high" is sound in principle but we have not implemented it at all well in recent years, primarily due to what appears to be a scattergun approach to transfers in which we spaff one or two million a piece on guys like Pukki and Balde.

The fact that Charlie Mulgrew is a guaranteed starter in midfield and the fact that we have gone into a Champions League qualifier against decent opposition with Pukki, Griffiths and Stokes as our only striking options are testaments to the club's failure to adequately implement its own policy over the last few years. The policy is only justifiable if it produces improvement. Two years ago, we had a midfield three of Wanyama, Brown and Ledley and up front we had Hooper. What we have now is not improvement.

The thing that struck me last night was that I am paying £500 a season ticket to watch deeply average footballers and I already can't be bothered going to watch the games. We haven't even played a proper home game yet! No Champions League football is a disaster for us. The price of a season ticket is only justifiable if (a) the product is good and/or (b) you are guaranteed to see some of Europe's best teams in the group stages. If we don't qualify, the team will be playing to an average gate of 30,000 (if it's lucky). Last night I was saying that we need to keep things I'm perspective - and I think we do - but for the last few years a sense of apathy has been building and it will continue to do so unless we drastically improve. And, of course, any drastic improvement will require some spending.

I liked the appointment of Ronny Deila: it showed a bit of imagination and he says all the right things for me when it comes the dedication he expects of his players and the football he wants to play. The board needs to give Ronny backing and that means we need to spend something this summer, whether we qualify for the Champions League or not. Anything else is just setting us up for the exact same failures next year.
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SaMule
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NSFW
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM
BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
Is there a CQN blog yet telling us it will all be OK and Peter knows what hes doing?
Posted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
Who to believe, the audited accounts of a plc or the unsupported rantings of a guy on the internet? :hmmm:
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Midfield Maestro
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM
BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
Is there a CQN blog yet telling us it will all be OK and Peter knows what hes doing?
Posted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
Are you actually accusing Celtic directors of financial malfeasance? :lol:

Celtic's accounts are audited. If you think that Celtic directors are squirrelling money away for themselves and then hiding this from the auditors, then I fear it is you who is the simpleton.

Disagree with their investment policy all you want, but this kind of stuff is tinfoil hat nonsense.
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Timdom come
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Midfield Maestro
31 Jul 2014, 12:06 PM
idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 11:26 AM
Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 11:21 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:thumbsup: Any company should have both operational and financial targets.

However, I genuinely struggle to think what our operational targets might be.

Perhaps not entirely unrelated, I'd guess that executive bonuses are driven solely by the financial targets.
Getting to the Champions League group stages is the only genuine operational target that we have (given that the league should be a gimme).

Getting to the Champions League group stages is also the most important plank in ensuring that the club meets its financial targets. The only problem being that getting there paradoxically requires investment.

The board has been playing Russian roulette with these qualifiers for years and our squad is consequently a lot poorer than it was two years ago. The policy of "buy low, sell high" is sound in principle but we have not implemented it at all well in recent years, primarily due to what appears to be a scattergun approach to transfers in which we spaff one or two million a piece on guys like Pukki and Balde.

The fact that Charlie Mulgrew is a guaranteed starter in midfield and the fact that we have gone into a Champions League qualifier against decent opposition with Pukki, Griffiths and Stokes as our only striking options are testaments to the club's failure to adequately implement its own policy over the last few years. The policy is only justifiable if it produces improvement. Two years ago, we had a midfield three of Wanyama, Brown and Ledley and up front we had Hooper. What we have now is not improvement.

The thing that struck me last night was that I am paying £500 a season ticket to watch deeply average footballers and I already can't be bothered going to watch the games. We haven't even played a proper home game yet! No Champions League football is a disaster for us. The price of a season ticket is only justifiable if (a) the product is good and/or (b) you are guaranteed to see some of Europe's best teams in the group stages. If we don't qualify, the team will be playing to an average gate of 30,000 (if it's lucky). Last night I was saying that we need to keep things I'm perspective - and I think we do - but for the last few years a sense of apathy has been building and it will continue to do so unless we drastically improve. And, of course, any drastic improvement will require some spending.

I liked the appointment of Ronny Deila: it showed a bit of imagination and he says all the right things for me when it comes the dedication he expects of his players and the football he wants to play. The board needs to give Ronny backing and that means we need to spend something this summer, whether we qualify for the Champions League or not. Anything else is just setting us up for the exact same failures next year.
Our approach is based on whatever the board can get away with without major investment. A good survival strategy for a while but this team didn't need someone like Griffiths to improve. God knows what the calculators are spewing out this morning- panic buys to calm the fans, or selling players to plug the gap....or both.
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Emerald Oracle
First team training
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Midfield Maestro
31 Jul 2014, 12:12 PM
Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM
BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
Are you actually accusing Celtic directors of financial malfeasance? :lol:

Celtic's accounts are audited. If you think that Celtic directors are squirrelling money away for themselves and then hiding this from the auditors, then I fear it is you who is the simpleton.

Disagree with their investment policy all you want, but this kind of stuff is tinfoil hat nonsense.
Do you not think there are ways around putting numbers on a sheet. That's like saying bung payments never exist because they aren't accounted for and not put on paper. No wonder clubs take the biscuit out of the customers who pay them as the average football customer isn't the sharpest knife in the draw.
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Ned Rise
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I think that the club now sees getting to the Champions League as the victory. As if the glory is in being able to stand on the same pitch as Barca or AC Milan. There's nothing great about getting there and being gubbed, not a shed of glory in that.

I thought that the best thing that might have happened to Brazil was if Neymar was sent off in their first game. They probably wouldn't even have made it out of the group. Bad as that would have been, it wouldn't have been as bad as what followed.

Celtic, in our current state, could easily concede ten against Real Madrid. At home. It's not an exaggeration to say this - we were lucky to escape from last night without it being the worst ever night in our European history, which would have been something considering previous collapses.

In the upstairs downstairs of football, we're scrubbing the pots and pans while Madrid and Barca are glugging champagne out of the best crystal and Peter Lawwell is bombing about like that snobby, conceited butler in the Remains of the Day, basking in reflected glory while it all crumbles round about him.
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Antoninho
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Quite simply, The buy low, sell high policy DOES work. Celtic are just pish at it.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:20 PM
as the average football customer isn't the sharpest knife in the draw.
you are certainly providing plenty evidence of that. :thumbsup:
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embdysman
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM
BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
Is there a CQN blog yet telling us it will all be OK and Peter knows what hes doing?
Posted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
Complete and utter nonsense.

Probably libellous too.
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SaMule
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 12:20 PM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jul 2014, 12:12 PM
Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
Are you actually accusing Celtic directors of financial malfeasance? :lol:

Celtic's accounts are audited. If you think that Celtic directors are squirrelling money away for themselves and then hiding this from the auditors, then I fear it is you who is the simpleton.

Disagree with their investment policy all you want, but this kind of stuff is tinfoil hat nonsense.
Do you not think there are ways around putting numbers on a sheet. That's like saying bung payments never exist because they aren't accounted for and not put on paper. No wonder clubs take the biscuit out of the customers who pay them as the average football customer isn't the sharpest knife in the draw.
The average football customer can spell the word drawer, so I guess you're in the below average category.

If you've got even the slightest shred of evidence suggesting that the board are siphoning money from the club, it's time to share it. If not, find a conspiracy theory website somewhere that'll pay you the attention you're obviously craving :thumbsup:
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Mackin
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The Ginty McGinty genius
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Emerald Oracle
31 Jul 2014, 11:47 AM
BeastieBhoy
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:09 AM
Is there a CQN blog yet telling us it will all be OK and Peter knows what hes doing?
Posted Image
Problem is the DoF probably has his hands tied, He'll most certainly be under instruction from board room level scumbags who are fleecing any profits they can get away with out the back door. Lawwell is a Celtic men after all, not all in suits are, they are money men(thieves).

How much debt did the club have going into 12-13 season ? I'd say that season ticket sales more or less cover running expenses, so anything else is profit. Now if you account champions league money x2 @12 mil, player sales @10-20 mil (includes ki) That's at least £40 mil in on top of season ticket money yet no substantial investment in the squad. But as some simpletons would tell you 'but they release the accounts publicly, there is no way anyone is taking money out the club as it's all accounted for'

Lennon wasn't waiting around for more downsizing to happen and be a part if it, he knew the money his playing staff were making on the pitch was going missing upstairs.
Youre right.

The director of football has his hands tied by the Chief Executive.

:ffs:
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