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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,415,000 Views)
SacredHoops
Getting on a bit
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Our biggest problem is that we sell our best players and replace them with hopeful, cheap prospects with the idea they might be just as good, and keep a hold of the shampooe that nobody else wants. There doesn't seem to be a single bit of logic or reason to what players are sold - anyone who is wanted is gone. Like just now, I fully expect Van Dijk to be sold, so we should have been getting someone in at the start of the close season to bed in and replace him when he goes. Celtic will sell him, be chuffed to bits with the profit, and then have no carrot to play centre half for half a season.

The same happened with Hooper - gone, no replacement signed. Wanyama - Kayal will take his place. It's a ludicrous approach and shows a board desperate for cash at every turn. When was the last time someone wanted one of our players and we said no, he's staying? I understand the need to bring in money through player sales but it is done massively to the detriment of the team.
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dazabhoy67
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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The Green Lantern
31 Jul 2014, 10:26 AM
idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 10:21 AM
dazabhoy67
31 Jul 2014, 10:14 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Honestly, WGAF about the huns? We may "dominate Scottish football for the next 10 years" (bring back the effin rolleyes smiley!), but that's hardly a reflection the quality of the team or the club.

Since Larsson and Sutton left, we've bought cheaper and cheaper replacements, to the point that we find ourselves bringing on Leigh Griffiths to try and save our season. Leigh effin Griffiths. :lol:

And when he inevitably gets punted, what quality of player are we going to replace him with?
Exactly. This has been an ongoing process for about a decade. We replaced Larsson with Henri Camara, ffs.

Even the players that Strachan had are miles better than what we have now. JVOH, Naka, McDonald, Donati, Jarosik and even Tommy Gravesen would walk into this current team. The comparison to MON's team is even more stark: we've went from Lambert, Lennon, Petrov, Thompson and Lubo to Charlie Mulgrew and a guy who can't get a game for Cardiff.
Although I agree with your point, we can’t hide from the fact that the football landscape has changed since the MON days. Decent players would rather play for relegation fodder in England than come to Celtic because of the wages on offer. We can’t compete with this and shouldn’t try to either.

Since Lawell came in, in 2004 it’s been constant downsizing, it was much needed though after the spending that happened during O’Neil’s era. Now though it’s just complete miss management at boardroom level that has left us where we are. Not enough investment at the right times, same old story for Celtic.
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dazabhoy67
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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SacredHoops
31 Jul 2014, 10:33 AM
Our biggest problem is that we sell our best players and replace them with hopeful, cheap prospects with the idea they might be just as good, and keep a hold of the shampooe that nobody else wants. There doesn't seem to be a single bit of logic or reason to what players are sold - anyone who is wanted is gone. Like just now, I fully expect Van Dijk to be sold, so we should have been getting someone in at the start of the close season to bed in and replace him when he goes. Celtic will sell him, be chuffed to bits with the profit, and then have no carrot to play centre half for half a season.

The same happened with Hooper - gone, no replacement signed. Wanyama - Kayal will take his place. It's a ludicrous approach and shows a board desperate for cash at every turn. When was the last time someone wanted one of our players and we said no, he's staying? I understand the need to bring in money through player sales but it is done massively to the detriment of the team.
We rejected a bid for Forster last week :ph43r:
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Big_dave_greenock_1888
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Celtic To The Core
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liger05
31 Jul 2014, 10:11 AM
Signing Gordon really told us everything you need to know about those who run the club.

A keeper who hasn't played for 2 years that nobody else wanted but Celtic sign him simply because his free and cheap wages.
and most probably will be our number 1 keeper by the time the 31st of August comes round.
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Relentless Fenian
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Can you hear them sing?
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Was Lawwell once a farmer? He seems to be an expert at milking!


We've made a fortune over the last 2-3 years. Spent none of it. Imagine yourself as FF or VVD. You'd be sitting there thinking "yeah, I've done my time here. No investment so might as well move on." In fact, Lawwell has probably been on the phone all morning touting them around.

Without the CL our season is bust. The SPL is beyond pish. In fairness I would probably even enjoy a wee bit of the UEFA league, but only if we had a decent team to have a decent run.

Maybe we'll all be wrong and a rabbit will be pulled out the hat. But I have my doubts.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Estoril
31 Jul 2014, 08:54 AM
fatboab
30 Jul 2014, 10:12 PM
Mr Lawwell, Mr Bankier, you reap what you sow. The downsizing comes home to roost.
I thought you had high hopes for this guy Bankier
What do you think has happened
Simple.

The Board have become complacent, and Lawwell's omnipotence cannot be challenged. Bankier went into the job with some really good ideas about what needed changed, but results like Barcelona and Karagandy have concealed the truth beneath the surface, and complacency set in some time back. The Chairman is a very successful businessman, and he got there by not doing any of what has been done to Celtic. Ask him about the value of investment at all levels of his own business compared to what is happening at Celtic, and we'd get an interesting discussion. That he seems to have enjoyed the minor "celebrity" of the position whilst not really understanding the primary purpose of the football club, ie to win football matches and continually strive to better itself both on and off the park, is perhaps a reflection of his fairly basic knowledge of the game and it's meaning to most.
Lawwell's famous " we aim to come out of each transfer window stronger than we went in" seems very hollow indeed today.

We need change at the top. Lawwell has been in position for far too long for any PLC, never mind a football club, and his way is now the only way, and much of it is so wrong. Bankier seemed eager to address that power imbalance not so long ago. He never did, and it looks like he never will. Shame really.

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Lobey Dosser
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Considering retirement
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dazabhoy67
31 Jul 2014, 10:14 AM
The Green Lantern
31 Jul 2014, 10:05 AM
The problem I have is that the Board is playing with a stacked deck. No matter what happens, the bank balance will be healthier this year than last. No matter what happens, the team will be poorer this year than last.

If we fail to qualify, we'll sell VVD and Forster because the revenue gap will have to be plugged. If we do qualify, VVD and Forster will still be sold; that money will be bundled in with the CL cash. Either way, we will continue to sell our best players and Lawell can still trumpet the fact that he's run the Club prudently.

I'm actually getting sick of the whole thing. We had a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity to dominate Scottish football - and kick on in Europe. Some reinvestment from the sale of players, plus using some of the CL cash, could have allowed us to really improve the quality of the team. Instead we've got a Celtic team that's barely worthy of the name.
Bit ott

We maybe out of Europe at least close to being out now but thats not going to stop us dominating Scottish football for the next 10 years.

Even if the club sells Forster and VVD its not going to make a difference to us winning the league or not. Sevco will not be in a good shape when they do arrive at the top table. There will be another admin before that happens as well. We will most likley get to 6 or 7 before they are in a position to be taken seriously.

We just need to regroup, invest in our youth and bring in some decent young talent to replace the players being sold.

Scottish football has become a backwater, and we are the best of a bad bunch. Being on top of that for another ten years, which I don't believe will happen, should make us happy to watch an ever decreasing standard of football and a continual stream of paternalistic pish from those who run the club ?

The much vaunted business model we employ is just that, a business of buy low, sell high. The process that supports it, the running of the football operation, where the revenue contributors are faced with seeing a decent player go after two to three years and not having a suitable timely replacement , results in a steady weakening of the team and panic buying too little, too late.

The board may be giving each other love bites for their financial results, but they have the accountability for ensuring that the operations they control provide a sustainable product.

That is not happening.

The finances of the club satisfy the businessmen who run and own the club, they do precious little to put a smile on the face of the punters.



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BombJack
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He twists, he turns, Tommy Burns...
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Silent Witness
31 Jul 2014, 05:32 AM
Whilst it is tempting to focus the blame on individuals or a group for failures, I find myself in a minority that wonders what it is that the board is doing so wrong ? I think that they are obliged to operate under business principles, and even operating a football business is not that challenging compared with other business entities.

The charge that they do not invest or spend money is simply untrue. They do, but if the money invested last season did not yield value for money, then that is a failing of the footballing operation (and regarding, the buy low, sell high policy, it was only valid for some, not all of our signings). The screams for greater investment stem from the relatively narrow horizon's of British football culture. Most of the EPL clubs are subsidy junkies, while aims of an average SPL club are modest to say the least. I would also ask how the investment strategies of the other CL qualifying clubs compare with ours. Given the level of investment in the current team, if anything, we are entitled ask why we are not getting better value for that ? This does not suggest a board that is failing. Rather, it suggests that our whole footballing operation is lacking in professionalism, compared even to smaller clubs in Europe.
What the board is doing wrong, is supplying the team with enough quality players.
It's not directly their job, but it is their job to ensure that it happens, and if not work out how we do it. So far in the last 3yrs, our attacking scouts have turned up heehaw.
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Mackin
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The Ginty McGinty genius
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fatboab
31 Jul 2014, 10:47 AM
Estoril
31 Jul 2014, 08:54 AM
fatboab
30 Jul 2014, 10:12 PM
Mr Lawwell, Mr Bankier, you reap what you sow. The downsizing comes home to roost.
I thought you had high hopes for this guy Bankier
What do you think has happened
Simple.

The Board have become complacent, and Lawwell's omnipotence cannot be challenged. Bankier went into the job with some really good ideas about what needed changed, but results like Barcelona and Karagandy have concealed the truth beneath the surface, and complacency set in some time back. The Chairman is a very successful businessman, and he got there by not doing any of what has been done to Celtic. Ask him about the value of investment at all levels of his own business compared to what is happening at Celtic, and we'd get an interesting discussion. That he seems to have enjoyed the minor "celebrity" of the position whilst not really understanding the primary purpose of the football club, ie to win football matches and continually strive to better itself both on and off the park, is perhaps a reflection of his fairly basic knowledge of the game and it's meaning to most.
Lawwell's famous " we aim to come out of each transfer window stronger than we went in" seems very hollow indeed today.

We need change at the top. Lawwell has been in position for far too long for any PLC, never mind a football club, and his way is now the only way, and much of it is so wrong. Bankier seemed eager to address that power imbalance not so long ago. He never did, and it looks like he never will. Shame really.

Isnt his position non-executive?

Why would a guy who's remit is basically to pitch up a day and a half a month for £50k a year have any input into changing the day-to-day running of the club?
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beezeypedro
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Occasional Substitute
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Is Celtic just not attractive enough to 'big name players'? Champions league yes, but look at all the other shampoo we have to deal with on a week by week basis.

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Lobey Dosser
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Considering retirement
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fatboab
31 Jul 2014, 10:47 AM
Estoril
31 Jul 2014, 08:54 AM
fatboab
30 Jul 2014, 10:12 PM
Mr Lawwell, Mr Bankier, you reap what you sow. The downsizing comes home to roost.
I thought you had high hopes for this guy Bankier
What do you think has happened
Simple.

The Board have become complacent, and Lawwell's omnipotence cannot be challenged. Bankier went into the job with some really good ideas about what needed changed, but results like Barcelona and Karagandy have concealed the truth beneath the surface, and complacency set in some time back. The Chairman is a very successful businessman, and he got there by not doing any of what has been done to Celtic. Ask him about the value of investment at all levels of his own business compared to what is happening at Celtic, and we'd get an interesting discussion. That he seems to have enjoyed the minor "celebrity" of the position whilst not really understanding the primary purpose of the football club, ie to win football matches and continually strive to better itself both on and off the park, is perhaps a reflection of his fairly basic knowledge of the game and it's meaning to most.
Lawwell's famous " we aim to come out of each transfer window stronger than we went in" seems very hollow indeed today.

We need change at the top. Lawwell has been in position for far too long for any PLC, never mind a football club, and his way is now the only way, and much of it is so wrong. Bankier seemed eager to address that power imbalance not so long ago. He never did, and it looks like he never will. Shame really.

Lawwell is Desmond's man from what I see. Whilst that relationship continues and the bewhiskered billionaire exercises controlling influence, Bankier will have little to no impact on what happens.

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idyllwild


Lobey Dosser
31 Jul 2014, 10:50 AM
The board may be giving each other love bites for their financial results, but they have the accountability for ensuring that the operations they control provide a sustainable product.

That is not happening.
Wonderfully stated. :worthy:
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Zurawski 7
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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beezeypedro
31 Jul 2014, 10:55 AM
Is Celtic just not attractive enough to 'big name players'? Champions league yes, but look at all the other shampoo we have to deal with on a week by week basis.

definitely not. thats the only real sympathy i have with the board. i dont think its as simple as saying theres 4m go get a quality striker.

it must be torture trying to attract any kind of decent players here right now
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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....give us a glimmer......
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I don't know what the support expect of the board? The kind of players needed to make instant improvement are out of our price range or just wont come to scotland.

Expect more young foreign players to be brought in and our own youth advanced quicker to the first team. I'm almost certain that is deilas remit.

The clubs made it clear it won't risk our financial position chasing the champions league money - thats what we laugh at rangers for remember ?
Edited by MILLIGANS ISLAND, 31 Jul 2014, 11:01 AM.
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duffsticks
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Cheap aftershave and bullshampoo
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Mackin
31 Jul 2014, 10:54 AM
fatboab
31 Jul 2014, 10:47 AM
Estoril
31 Jul 2014, 08:54 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Simple.

The Board have become complacent, and Lawwell's omnipotence cannot be challenged. Bankier went into the job with some really good ideas about what needed changed, but results like Barcelona and Karagandy have concealed the truth beneath the surface, and complacency set in some time back. The Chairman is a very successful businessman, and he got there by not doing any of what has been done to Celtic. Ask him about the value of investment at all levels of his own business compared to what is happening at Celtic, and we'd get an interesting discussion. That he seems to have enjoyed the minor "celebrity" of the position whilst not really understanding the primary purpose of the football club, ie to win football matches and continually strive to better itself both on and off the park, is perhaps a reflection of his fairly basic knowledge of the game and it's meaning to most.
Lawwell's famous " we aim to come out of each transfer window stronger than we went in" seems very hollow indeed today.

We need change at the top. Lawwell has been in position for far too long for any PLC, never mind a football club, and his way is now the only way, and much of it is so wrong. Bankier seemed eager to address that power imbalance not so long ago. He never did, and it looks like he never will. Shame really.

Isnt his position non-executive?

Why would a guy who's remit is basically to pitch up a day and a half a month for £50k a year have any input into changing the day-to-day running of the club?
Every chairman's role is non-executive.

Part of his remit is to ensure that the company abides by good corporate governance, or as much of the corporate governance guidelines as is appropriate.

One of those guidelines is around the length of time a director should remain in his post - guidelines say up to 7 years. Lawwell has long since surpassed that but remains the (sole) man in charge.

The chairman should be pointing that out. The chairman should also not be afraid to challenge the CEO where it is needed. Mr Bankier should be doing both of these things.
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idyllwild


MILLIGANS ISLAND
31 Jul 2014, 11:01 AM
I don't know what the support expect of the board? The kind of players needed to make instant improvement are out of our price range or just wont come to scotland.

Expect more young foreign players to be brought in and our own youth advanced quicker to the first team. I'm almost certain that is deilas remit.

The clubs made it clear it won't risk our financial position chasing the champions league money - thats what we laugh at rangers for remember ?
Gary Hooper was within our price range and would have stayed in Scotland. We now have Leigh Griffiths.

And are people really still referencing Rangers as some sort of benchmark for Celtic??? :ffs: :lol:
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thenakattack
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Getting on a bit
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If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
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paulfg42
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
31 Jul 2014, 11:01 AM
I don't know what the support expect of the board? The kind of players needed to make instant improvement are out of our price range or just wont come to scotland.

Expect more young foreign players to be brought in and our own youth advanced quicker to the first team. I'm almost certain that is deilas remit.

The clubs made it clear it won't risk our financial position chasing the champions league money - thats what we laugh at rangers for remember ?
:ffs:
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Lobey Dosser
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Considering retirement
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thenakattack
31 Jul 2014, 11:11 AM
If Lawwell goes any idea who we would get? someone cheaper obviously but will the strategy change?
Lawwell has a free hand, provided he stays within his remit. The board set the limits of that remit. Someone new might save the club half a million a year, but would simply be old wine in a new bottle. He is however, vastly overcompensated.
The board are financial results obsessed to the detriment of the performances on the park. The approach doesn't have to the polar opposite and blow money chasing moonbeams, a balanced risk approach is practised in many many organisations. If the incumbents on our board can't manage that they should not be there, if they are not permitted to do so, the power behind the board needs to be hunted.
The malaise in our club is rooted in the board room.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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....give us a glimmer......
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idyllwild
31 Jul 2014, 11:06 AM
MILLIGANS ISLAND
31 Jul 2014, 11:01 AM
I don't know what the support expect of the board? The kind of players needed to make instant improvement are out of our price range or just wont come to scotland.

Expect more young foreign players to be brought in and our own youth advanced quicker to the first team. I'm almost certain that is deilas remit.

The clubs made it clear it won't risk our financial position chasing the champions league money - thats what we laugh at rangers for remember ?
Gary Hooper was within our price range and would have stayed in Scotland. We now have Leigh Griffiths.

And are people really still referencing Rangers as some sort of benchmark for Celtic??? :ffs: :lol:
I don't recall stating they were a benchmark. I was saying their strategy was flawed and we would be foolish to follow it.
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