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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,794 Views)
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henrikisgod
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11 Nov 2015, 03:53 PM
Post #4561
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- Quiet Assasin
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:39 PM
- stevon
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:25 PM
Sorry to go against the grain here...
Can we as fans really expect to compete (as we have) for the Champs League post-Christmas on an ongoing basis? Is that a viable strategy for Celtic FC going forward?
Priority as always will be to win the league, which means just being a shade better than the rest; the gap between producing a team that's a bawhair better than Aberdeen/Hearts/etc. and producing a team capable of producing results on the top stage in Europe against world-class opposition is a massive gulf... Much bigger than I think is generally acknowledged on here. It'd be really interesting to take a look at the numbers (even historic) and chalking up what kind of pre-season investment would be feasible; but then we'd all need to agree on what risk levels were acceptable and of course, spending money doesn't guarantee anything.
I think our supports ambition is not matched by the board - but I look to the pleasure/pain model as to why nothing is happening about that... Pleasure - domestically we're top of the pops by quite a margin and it doesn't take much. Financially, we're comfortable and operationally we're profitable. There's also a circus keeping everyone entertained with a calamity at the other side of the city. Pain - watching a poor standard of football for quite some time now with no signs of that changing or steps being taken to improve, paying some of those impostors generous salaries for being rank, the lack of ambition in signings/managerial appointments, fall from grace in Europe.
Just not enough pain to inspire any sort of change. The standard of football is a hard one to swallow, but we're generally still winning games so it will be tolerated. No pain, no gain.
Please don't think I don't understand where you guys are coming from - I've went from doing 250 mile round trips to the games throughout 2006/7/8 to having nothing more than a passing interest in the results, catching the games on TV when I've nothing more important on. Celtic could have used this opportunity for growth, to mount CL runs in a bid to bank the money and further our reputation - but instead they've played it totally safe, scaled down and would argue they're adapting to the business environment... Given that I'd expect to see a far heavier focus on player/youth development and whilst a CL run would certainly boost the coffers it's not a priority under this sort of strategy...
I guess the question is does anybody see mounting a CL challenge and the costs associated with it as a good strategy? Is buying a team worthy of CL football in our league productive? Is building a team capable of CL football our strategy? Or should it be?
Given you've admited you only have a passing interest in results, it's not a surprise you are opting for a 'ach it's not bad' approach, We are only profitable if we reach the Champions League, or make a big sale in the summer. That exposes an inherint weakness in the business as it is structured at the moment. We no longer have any assets to cash in on, and as a result it will be more difficult for us to reach the CL. This exposes the weakness of the business. This will most likelyresult in further fiscal pain, unless we negotiate the CL qualifiers PDQ. I don't think anyone is, at the moment, asking for a team to regularly compete in the Champions League knock out stages. We are a team that has struggled at the prelim stages of the competition in recent seasons. That's just not good enough from a football, nor a financial point of view. This for me We shouldn't be spending recklessly in the hope of CL group stages every year but we should be fielding a side which is capable of negotiating if not the play off rounds (depending on opponents) but at the very least giving a decent challenge in the Europa League As it is we struggle to play against (at least financially) smaller clubs in (supposedly) inferior leagues Surely there's a balance to be met somewhere? A good starting point would be to stop selling any player that catches the eye down south. Give us a couple of seasons with a settled side and that'll be half the battle
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Quiet Assasin
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11 Nov 2015, 03:58 PM
Post #4562
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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- stevon
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:51 PM
- Quote:
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Given you've admited you only have a passing interest in results, it's not a surprise you are opting for a 'ach it's not bad' approach
From what I've seen this season - it is bad. Quality of football I'm talking here. - Quote:
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We are only profitable if we reach the Champions League, or make a big sale in the summer. That exposes an inherint weakness in the business as it is structured at the moment. We no longer have any assets to cash in on, and as a result it will be more difficult for us to reach the CL. This exposes the weakness of the business. This will most likelyresult in further fiscal pain, unless we negotiate the CL qualifiers PDQ.
Really? Excuse my ignorance. Quite unbelievable that we're not turning a profit without CL/transfer money. I was working on the theory that transfers/competition prizes aside, we were still turning over a healthy wee profit... So am I right in now thinking we actually need CL football to remain financially stable? That changes everything. Ignorance is bliss  How big is that gap - as in, could we become what I'd consider 'safely solvent' pretty easily? A club that operates within its means without depending on uncertain transfer/competition prizes? - Quote:
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I don't think anyone is, at the moment, asking for a team to regularly compete in the Champions League knock out stages. We are a team that has struggled at the prelim stages of the competition in recent seasons. That's just not good enough from a football, nor a financial point of view.
Always seems like the expectation from a section though doesn't it? Thanks for your response and schooling on the financial situation! I wouldn't say we need CL football to remain financially stable, but if you look at last season we posted a loss which was attributed to not having CL football, and holding on to 'player registrations'; i.e. not selling Virgil van Dijk.
I'm sure on of the accountants will be able to give you a more exact and expert analysis of where we are, but like most austerity measures, the Board's hasn't worked very well.
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J_C_X
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11 Nov 2015, 03:59 PM
Post #4563
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- jpk31
- 11 Nov 2015, 02:25 PM
- Cumbernauldbhoy
- 11 Nov 2015, 02:22 PM
'US Network'? Sounds a bit dodgy tbh.
We're being sold to Fox News Well they are really biased towards Republicans.
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henrikisgod
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11 Nov 2015, 04:00 PM
Post #4564
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- J_C_X
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:59 PM
- jpk31
- 11 Nov 2015, 02:25 PM
- Cumbernauldbhoy
- 11 Nov 2015, 02:22 PM
'US Network'? Sounds a bit dodgy tbh.
We're being sold to Fox News
Well they are really biased towards Republicans.  Can you imagine the one sided coverage we'd get?
It would make the current SMSM green with envy
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green_equals_silver
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11 Nov 2015, 04:17 PM
Post #4565
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- henrikisgod
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:53 PM
- Quiet Assasin
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:39 PM
- stevon
- 11 Nov 2015, 03:25 PM
Sorry to go against the grain here...
Can we as fans really expect to compete (as we have) for the Champs League post-Christmas on an ongoing basis? Is that a viable strategy for Celtic FC going forward?
Priority as always will be to win the league, which means just being a shade better than the rest; the gap between producing a team that's a bawhair better than Aberdeen/Hearts/etc. and producing a team capable of producing results on the top stage in Europe against world-class opposition is a massive gulf... Much bigger than I think is generally acknowledged on here. It'd be really interesting to take a look at the numbers (even historic) and chalking up what kind of pre-season investment would be feasible; but then we'd all need to agree on what risk levels were acceptable and of course, spending money doesn't guarantee anything.
I think our supports ambition is not matched by the board - but I look to the pleasure/pain model as to why nothing is happening about that... Pleasure - domestically we're top of the pops by quite a margin and it doesn't take much. Financially, we're comfortable and operationally we're profitable. There's also a circus keeping everyone entertained with a calamity at the other side of the city. Pain - watching a poor standard of football for quite some time now with no signs of that changing or steps being taken to improve, paying some of those impostors generous salaries for being rank, the lack of ambition in signings/managerial appointments, fall from grace in Europe.
Just not enough pain to inspire any sort of change. The standard of football is a hard one to swallow, but we're generally still winning games so it will be tolerated. No pain, no gain.
Please don't think I don't understand where you guys are coming from - I've went from doing 250 mile round trips to the games throughout 2006/7/8 to having nothing more than a passing interest in the results, catching the games on TV when I've nothing more important on. Celtic could have used this opportunity for growth, to mount CL runs in a bid to bank the money and further our reputation - but instead they've played it totally safe, scaled down and would argue they're adapting to the business environment... Given that I'd expect to see a far heavier focus on player/youth development and whilst a CL run would certainly boost the coffers it's not a priority under this sort of strategy...
I guess the question is does anybody see mounting a CL challenge and the costs associated with it as a good strategy? Is buying a team worthy of CL football in our league productive? Is building a team capable of CL football our strategy? Or should it be?
Given you've admited you only have a passing interest in results, it's not a surprise you are opting for a 'ach it's not bad' approach, We are only profitable if we reach the Champions League, or make a big sale in the summer. That exposes an inherint weakness in the business as it is structured at the moment. We no longer have any assets to cash in on, and as a result it will be more difficult for us to reach the CL. This exposes the weakness of the business. This will most likelyresult in further fiscal pain, unless we negotiate the CL qualifiers PDQ. I don't think anyone is, at the moment, asking for a team to regularly compete in the Champions League knock out stages. We are a team that has struggled at the prelim stages of the competition in recent seasons. That's just not good enough from a football, nor a financial point of view.
This for me We shouldn't be spending recklessly in the hope of CL group stages every year but we should be fielding a side which is capable of negotiating if not the play off rounds (depending on opponents) but at the very least giving a decent challenge in the Europa League As it is we struggle to play against (at least financially) smaller clubs in (supposedly) inferior leagues Surely there's a balance to be met somewhere? A good starting point would be to stop selling any player that catches the eye down south. Give us a couple of seasons with a settled side and that'll be half the battle Totally agree with that last line but unfortunately I believe we sell the club as a stepping stone to the riches of the EPL that negates any chance of us having a (good) settled side
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georgiesleftpeg
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11 Nov 2015, 04:59 PM
Post #4566
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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article from the football life
Transatlantic Takeover - Celtic must ignore the obvious to reap American rewards
Economics, form those who see the word and switch off, is often described as the “Dismal Science”. It’s a gloomy subject but with massive ramifications. While for most Celtic fans, the news that the club is actively seeking to create a global network of clubs, such as has been done at Manchester City, has met with the entirely understandable reaction that, perhaps, the money would be better spent on the team the company own now rather than ones they’d like to own in the future, one has to look at the boring bits and see how this plan might actually work.
There are two or three options on the table right now - the safe option, the unsafe option and the right option and all three are worth looking at in turn.
THE SAFE OPTION
This option revolves around going along the most obvious path imaginable - going full Irish.
Start by getting a marketing partnership with two high profile sports entities in the US - the Boston Celtics and Notre Dame University (The Fighting Irish!). Then, have all three come together to help form a NASL expansion side based out of Boston or Providence to start playing in 2020 and link up with the New England Revolution so it acts similarly to a feeder side for both Celtic and them and doesn’t affect the Revs marketing too much.
Seek to get tie ups with every Irish linked club you can and then try to run some sort of Celtic super brand. This is similar to what Manchester City are doing right now with the added bonus of having a cultural connection that extends beyond money. The cross-promotion is obvious, the market is obvious and it’s an option that is safe as houses but is also totally unambitious.
That might seem an odd thing to say but essentially what Celtic would do in this method is try to place itself in the middle of markets which are already mature. Yes, there’s a lot of Ireland in New England, but the potential for growth is actually pretty limited.
If one looks at Manchester City as an example, they parked their bus in the most culturally relevant city in the world, brought in legitimate superstars in Frank Lampard and David Villa and were able to get off the ground quickly with a big snazzy launch and commercial tie ups with everyone who was anyone.
This safe option would involve Celtic parking their bus in a cultural hotbed, not bringing in superstars as they’d be unaffordable and playing the Irish card for an age. You can see how that is limiting. This safe option will work, but returns on investment will not exactly be astounding.
THE UNSAFE OPTION
Get in with an established NASL club with a little bit of history (Carolina Railhawks, etc) and treat like a feeder side. Focus on Asia more by getting partnerships with markets the EPL have opened up - Thailand, Vietnam, etc - and tour annually. Acquire an A League club and attempt to crack Australia also.
The benefits here are obvious - access to open, profitable markets while also having ties to established youth systems in the hole that, in 5 or 10 years, the next all white (that bit is crucial to what will come in the right option), all American hero is playing for Celtic and spearheading Celtic’s marketing efforts. If it works, you get marketable sportsmen who will earn the club a handsome profit in the long run and will be able to expand Celtic worldwide.
If it doesn’t work, then it’s a lot of expense for limited exposure. There is no guarantee the South East Asian market will take to it and attempting to break English speaking markets in the USA and Australia at a time when those markets need a bit of star power added for any efforts to be noticed is very risky. Of the three options being presented here, this option would need the most investment in the short term and provides the most potential of flopping in the long term but, if it worked, would give Celtic a steady stream of money that would jump up based upon how good the players they could acquire from this feeder network are.
THE RIGHT OPTION
Now, this is going to sound far far riskier than the other two but it’s a strategy that will work and would pay off in far greater numbers than the other two options. This is for one critical reason - it focuses on markets that are growing and not totally catered for right now.
It may seem a bit weird that, in this day and age, we can even entertain the concept of a market which isn’t saturated with football, but it exists in the USA and that market is the West Coast.
No major European football market has yet really had a go at cracking the West Coast for a couple of obvious reasons. The first is the time difference - the seven hour time gap isn’t conducive for the English market as even the Saturday late slot is kicking off at 10:30am in LA. The second is that La Liga has never had the collective bargaining to waltz into a major American network and try to get a contract similar to that of the EPL. While it may have presence in the Latin markets, in the wealthiest Latin market of all (the USA) it has very little for the time being.
This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison).
This then would get Celtic tied into a demographic which is not just growing, but whose spending power is also increasing. Some may point to Chivas USA not working but the circumstances there were those of the side essentially acting as Chivas Guadalajara’s reserves rather than as a functioning competitive side of it’s own. It means some alterations to how the season works as 7:30pm Saturday kick offs would become an absolute essential, so that games are played at lunchtime on the West Coast of the US, but none of the changes required are that drastic and would, in fact, increase the domestic audience for the SPFL by giving it a lead in from the EPL rather than clashing with it.
(That this would mean the SPFL would then clash with La Liga which might sound like a bad thing, but the SPFL out-draws La Liga as it is. By taking away EPL competition, doing this would actually increase the potential audience available for the game on TV. While Police Scotland would likely have something to say about it, especially if one were to have a Celtic home game on at that time, they already permit Friday night games and the benefit to the local economy of fans staying over, as often seen from Sunday early games, would be massive)
To copy this strategy in Asia, you simply do the exact same in India - a nation still finding it’s feet in terms of enjoying football, but also a nation where the cost of entry isn’t huge. There are issues with India’s own internal set up (primarily, it’s not been around that long and they have two leagues) but it also has 1 billion people that are almost uniformly mad about sport. Unlike China, where broadcasting has all gone behind subscriptions and/or online, the Indian market is still somewhat immature but still hungry for content. Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans.
The Manchester City (or, should we say, the Abu Dhabi Football Family) model has it’s merits but it’s impossible for all but a couple of clubs to actually do what they did for the simple reason that it cost an absolutely exorbitant amount of money to do so. They blew in excess of £100m in setting up New York City alone for it to be one of the worst sides in MLS for it’s first season. Dermot Desmond may have a wealth somewhere in the region of Scrooge McDuck, but even he would baulk at that sort of investment. That isn’t to say that there aren’t cheap, wise investments out there - one simply just has to take the time to pause and identify the growth markets as they do still exist. If Celtic chose the safe option, few would blame them - it allies them with similar brands in America and appeals to Celtic’s traditional “heartland” so to speak. It will yield results but it will yield limited results from a market that other clubs and leagues have been to and mined thoroughly before.
In contrast, no-one has effectively taken on the Hispanic market in the USA. It is football mad and you will see occasional Real Madrid and Barca fans, but mainly it isn’t catered for. The economic benefit to Celtic of working it well and doing something as much as finding and acquiring the next Clint Dempsey would be worth millions in merchandising alone - Shunsuke Nakamura sold well over 100,000 Celtic strips on his name. Clint Dempsey outsells everyone in MLS and has done so since day one - the impact of getting in on the ground level on that market is obvious.
There is easy money to be made appealing to the traditional core. Appealing to the unloved, however, will earn Celtic a hell of a lot more.
- See more at: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131958809446/transatlantic-takeover-celtic-must-ignore-the#sthash.61hYWRWp.dpuf
edit; dont shoot the messenger
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lynch1888
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11 Nov 2015, 05:33 PM
Post #4567
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First name on the team-sheet
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- georgiesleftpeg
- 11 Nov 2015, 04:59 PM
article from the football lifeTransatlantic Takeover - Celtic must ignore the obvious to reap American rewardsEconomics, form those who see the word and switch off, is often described as the “Dismal Science”. It’s a gloomy subject but with massive ramifications. While for most Celtic fans, the news that the club is actively seeking to create a global network of clubs, such as has been done at Manchester City, has met with the entirely understandable reaction that, perhaps, the money would be better spent on the team the company own now rather than ones they’d like to own in the future, one has to look at the boring bits and see how this plan might actually work. There are two or three options on the table right now - the safe option, the unsafe option and the right option and all three are worth looking at in turn. THE SAFE OPTIONThis option revolves around going along the most obvious path imaginable - going full Irish. Start by getting a marketing partnership with two high profile sports entities in the US - the Boston Celtics and Notre Dame University (The Fighting Irish!). Then, have all three come together to help form a NASL expansion side based out of Boston or Providence to start playing in 2020 and link up with the New England Revolution so it acts similarly to a feeder side for both Celtic and them and doesn’t affect the Revs marketing too much. Seek to get tie ups with every Irish linked club you can and then try to run some sort of Celtic super brand. This is similar to what Manchester City are doing right now with the added bonus of having a cultural connection that extends beyond money. The cross-promotion is obvious, the market is obvious and it’s an option that is safe as houses but is also totally unambitious. That might seem an odd thing to say but essentially what Celtic would do in this method is try to place itself in the middle of markets which are already mature. Yes, there’s a lot of Ireland in New England, but the potential for growth is actually pretty limited. If one looks at Manchester City as an example, they parked their bus in the most culturally relevant city in the world, brought in legitimate superstars in Frank Lampard and David Villa and were able to get off the ground quickly with a big snazzy launch and commercial tie ups with everyone who was anyone. This safe option would involve Celtic parking their bus in a cultural hotbed, not bringing in superstars as they’d be unaffordable and playing the Irish card for an age. You can see how that is limiting. This safe option will work, but returns on investment will not exactly be astounding. THE UNSAFE OPTIONGet in with an established NASL club with a little bit of history (Carolina Railhawks, etc) and treat like a feeder side. Focus on Asia more by getting partnerships with markets the EPL have opened up - Thailand, Vietnam, etc - and tour annually. Acquire an A League club and attempt to crack Australia also. The benefits here are obvious - access to open, profitable markets while also having ties to established youth systems in the hole that, in 5 or 10 years, the next all white (that bit is crucial to what will come in the right option), all American hero is playing for Celtic and spearheading Celtic’s marketing efforts. If it works, you get marketable sportsmen who will earn the club a handsome profit in the long run and will be able to expand Celtic worldwide. If it doesn’t work, then it’s a lot of expense for limited exposure. There is no guarantee the South East Asian market will take to it and attempting to break English speaking markets in the USA and Australia at a time when those markets need a bit of star power added for any efforts to be noticed is very risky. Of the three options being presented here, this option would need the most investment in the short term and provides the most potential of flopping in the long term but, if it worked, would give Celtic a steady stream of money that would jump up based upon how good the players they could acquire from this feeder network are. THE RIGHT OPTIONNow, this is going to sound far far riskier than the other two but it’s a strategy that will work and would pay off in far greater numbers than the other two options. This is for one critical reason - it focuses on markets that are growing and not totally catered for right now. It may seem a bit weird that, in this day and age, we can even entertain the concept of a market which isn’t saturated with football, but it exists in the USA and that market is the West Coast. No major European football market has yet really had a go at cracking the West Coast for a couple of obvious reasons. The first is the time difference - the seven hour time gap isn’t conducive for the English market as even the Saturday late slot is kicking off at 10:30am in LA. The second is that La Liga has never had the collective bargaining to waltz into a major American network and try to get a contract similar to that of the EPL. While it may have presence in the Latin markets, in the wealthiest Latin market of all (the USA) it has very little for the time being. This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison). This then would get Celtic tied into a demographic which is not just growing, but whose spending power is also increasing. Some may point to Chivas USA not working but the circumstances there were those of the side essentially acting as Chivas Guadalajara’s reserves rather than as a functioning competitive side of it’s own. It means some alterations to how the season works as 7:30pm Saturday kick offs would become an absolute essential, so that games are played at lunchtime on the West Coast of the US, but none of the changes required are that drastic and would, in fact, increase the domestic audience for the SPFL by giving it a lead in from the EPL rather than clashing with it. (That this would mean the SPFL would then clash with La Liga which might sound like a bad thing, but the SPFL out-draws La Liga as it is. By taking away EPL competition, doing this would actually increase the potential audience available for the game on TV. While Police Scotland would likely have something to say about it, especially if one were to have a Celtic home game on at that time, they already permit Friday night games and the benefit to the local economy of fans staying over, as often seen from Sunday early games, would be massive) To copy this strategy in Asia, you simply do the exact same in India - a nation still finding it’s feet in terms of enjoying football, but also a nation where the cost of entry isn’t huge. There are issues with India’s own internal set up (primarily, it’s not been around that long and they have two leagues) but it also has 1 billion people that are almost uniformly mad about sport. Unlike China, where broadcasting has all gone behind subscriptions and/or online, the Indian market is still somewhat immature but still hungry for content. Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans. The Manchester City (or, should we say, the Abu Dhabi Football Family) model has it’s merits but it’s impossible for all but a couple of clubs to actually do what they did for the simple reason that it cost an absolutely exorbitant amount of money to do so. They blew in excess of £100m in setting up New York City alone for it to be one of the worst sides in MLS for it’s first season. Dermot Desmond may have a wealth somewhere in the region of Scrooge McDuck, but even he would baulk at that sort of investment. That isn’t to say that there aren’t cheap, wise investments out there - one simply just has to take the time to pause and identify the growth markets as they do still exist. If Celtic chose the safe option, few would blame them - it allies them with similar brands in America and appeals to Celtic’s traditional “heartland” so to speak. It will yield results but it will yield limited results from a market that other clubs and leagues have been to and mined thoroughly before. In contrast, no-one has effectively taken on the Hispanic market in the USA. It is football mad and you will see occasional Real Madrid and Barca fans, but mainly it isn’t catered for. The economic benefit to Celtic of working it well and doing something as much as finding and acquiring the next Clint Dempsey would be worth millions in merchandising alone - Shunsuke Nakamura sold well over 100,000 Celtic strips on his name. Clint Dempsey outsells everyone in MLS and has done so since day one - the impact of getting in on the ground level on that market is obvious. There is easy money to be made appealing to the traditional core. Appealing to the unloved, however, will earn Celtic a hell of a lot more. - See more at: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131958809446/transatlantic-takeover-celtic-must-ignore-the#sthash.61hYWRWp.dpufedit; dont shoot the messenger Depressing stuff. The football governing bodies should be putting regulations in place to stop this feeder club nonsense. What Man City are trying to do, in terms of building a franchise dynasty is ruining football. If other clubs follow suit we may take up tennis or something.
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arklys
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11 Nov 2015, 06:10 PM
Post #4568
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- georgiesleftpeg
- 11 Nov 2015, 04:59 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle article from the football lifeTransatlantic Takeover - Celtic must ignore the obvious to reap American rewardsEconomics, form those who see the word and switch off, is often described as the “Dismal Science”. It’s a gloomy subject but with massive ramifications. While for most Celtic fans, the news that the club is actively seeking to create a global network of clubs, such as has been done at Manchester City, has met with the entirely understandable reaction that, perhaps, the money would be better spent on the team the company own now rather than ones they’d like to own in the future, one has to look at the boring bits and see how this plan might actually work. There are two or three options on the table right now - the safe option, the unsafe option and the right option and all three are worth looking at in turn. THE SAFE OPTIONThis option revolves around going along the most obvious path imaginable - going full Irish. Start by getting a marketing partnership with two high profile sports entities in the US - the Boston Celtics and Notre Dame University (The Fighting Irish!). Then, have all three come together to help form a NASL expansion side based out of Boston or Providence to start playing in 2020 and link up with the New England Revolution so it acts similarly to a feeder side for both Celtic and them and doesn’t affect the Revs marketing too much. Seek to get tie ups with every Irish linked club you can and then try to run some sort of Celtic super brand. This is similar to what Manchester City are doing right now with the added bonus of having a cultural connection that extends beyond money. The cross-promotion is obvious, the market is obvious and it’s an option that is safe as houses but is also totally unambitious. That might seem an odd thing to say but essentially what Celtic would do in this method is try to place itself in the middle of markets which are already mature. Yes, there’s a lot of Ireland in New England, but the potential for growth is actually pretty limited. If one looks at Manchester City as an example, they parked their bus in the most culturally relevant city in the world, brought in legitimate superstars in Frank Lampard and David Villa and were able to get off the ground quickly with a big snazzy launch and commercial tie ups with everyone who was anyone. This safe option would involve Celtic parking their bus in a cultural hotbed, not bringing in superstars as they’d be unaffordable and playing the Irish card for an age. You can see how that is limiting. This safe option will work, but returns on investment will not exactly be astounding. THE UNSAFE OPTIONGet in with an established NASL club with a little bit of history (Carolina Railhawks, etc) and treat like a feeder side. Focus on Asia more by getting partnerships with markets the EPL have opened up - Thailand, Vietnam, etc - and tour annually. Acquire an A League club and attempt to crack Australia also. The benefits here are obvious - access to open, profitable markets while also having ties to established youth systems in the hole that, in 5 or 10 years, the next all white (that bit is crucial to what will come in the right option), all American hero is playing for Celtic and spearheading Celtic’s marketing efforts. If it works, you get marketable sportsmen who will earn the club a handsome profit in the long run and will be able to expand Celtic worldwide. If it doesn’t work, then it’s a lot of expense for limited exposure. There is no guarantee the South East Asian market will take to it and attempting to break English speaking markets in the USA and Australia at a time when those markets need a bit of star power added for any efforts to be noticed is very risky. Of the three options being presented here, this option would need the most investment in the short term and provides the most potential of flopping in the long term but, if it worked, would give Celtic a steady stream of money that would jump up based upon how good the players they could acquire from this feeder network are. THE RIGHT OPTIONNow, this is going to sound far far riskier than the other two but it’s a strategy that will work and would pay off in far greater numbers than the other two options. This is for one critical reason - it focuses on markets that are growing and not totally catered for right now. It may seem a bit weird that, in this day and age, we can even entertain the concept of a market which isn’t saturated with football, but it exists in the USA and that market is the West Coast. No major European football market has yet really had a go at cracking the West Coast for a couple of obvious reasons. The first is the time difference - the seven hour time gap isn’t conducive for the English market as even the Saturday late slot is kicking off at 10:30am in LA. The second is that La Liga has never had the collective bargaining to waltz into a major American network and try to get a contract similar to that of the EPL. While it may have presence in the Latin markets, in the wealthiest Latin market of all (the USA) it has very little for the time being. This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison). This then would get Celtic tied into a demographic which is not just growing, but whose spending power is also increasing. Some may point to Chivas USA not working but the circumstances there were those of the side essentially acting as Chivas Guadalajara’s reserves rather than as a functioning competitive side of it’s own. It means some alterations to how the season works as 7:30pm Saturday kick offs would become an absolute essential, so that games are played at lunchtime on the West Coast of the US, but none of the changes required are that drastic and would, in fact, increase the domestic audience for the SPFL by giving it a lead in from the EPL rather than clashing with it. (That this would mean the SPFL would then clash with La Liga which might sound like a bad thing, but the SPFL out-draws La Liga as it is. By taking away EPL competition, doing this would actually increase the potential audience available for the game on TV. While Police Scotland would likely have something to say about it, especially if one were to have a Celtic home game on at that time, they already permit Friday night games and the benefit to the local economy of fans staying over, as often seen from Sunday early games, would be massive) To copy this strategy in Asia, you simply do the exact same in India - a nation still finding it’s feet in terms of enjoying football, but also a nation where the cost of entry isn’t huge. There are issues with India’s own internal set up (primarily, it’s not been around that long and they have two leagues) but it also has 1 billion people that are almost uniformly mad about sport. Unlike China, where broadcasting has all gone behind subscriptions and/or online, the Indian market is still somewhat immature but still hungry for content. Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans. The Manchester City (or, should we say, the Abu Dhabi Football Family) model has it’s merits but it’s impossible for all but a couple of clubs to actually do what they did for the simple reason that it cost an absolutely exorbitant amount of money to do so. They blew in excess of £100m in setting up New York City alone for it to be one of the worst sides in MLS for it’s first season. Dermot Desmond may have a wealth somewhere in the region of Scrooge McDuck, but even he would baulk at that sort of investment. That isn’t to say that there aren’t cheap, wise investments out there - one simply just has to take the time to pause and identify the growth markets as they do still exist. If Celtic chose the safe option, few would blame them - it allies them with similar brands in America and appeals to Celtic’s traditional “heartland” so to speak. It will yield results but it will yield limited results from a market that other clubs and leagues have been to and mined thoroughly before. In contrast, no-one has effectively taken on the Hispanic market in the USA. It is football mad and you will see occasional Real Madrid and Barca fans, but mainly it isn’t catered for. The economic benefit to Celtic of working it well and doing something as much as finding and acquiring the next Clint Dempsey would be worth millions in merchandising alone - Shunsuke Nakamura sold well over 100,000 Celtic strips on his name. Clint Dempsey outsells everyone in MLS and has done so since day one - the impact of getting in on the ground level on that market is obvious. There is easy money to be made appealing to the traditional core. Appealing to the unloved, however, will earn Celtic a hell of a lot more. - See more at: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131958809446/transatlantic-takeover-celtic-must-ignore-the#sthash.61hYWRWp.dpufedit; dont shoot the messenger
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Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans. Would it? Wouldn't they just see us and think, "This football thing looks a bit pish, think I'll stick with cricket/hockey/whatever"...?
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Quiet Assasin
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11 Nov 2015, 06:12 PM
Post #4569
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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Buy a team in Australia and try to crack the Indian market.
What could possibly go wrong?
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georgiesleftpeg
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11 Nov 2015, 06:20 PM
Post #4570
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- Quiet Assasin
- 11 Nov 2015, 06:12 PM
Buy a team in Australia and try to crack the Indian market.
What could possibly go wrong?
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san meegs
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11 Nov 2015, 06:28 PM
Post #4571
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- Quote:
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This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison).
Can't see any issues being raised about us buying the Orange County Blues. None whatsoever.
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QualityStreet1970
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11 Nov 2015, 06:34 PM
Post #4572
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A lot of interesting details in that article, although this whole notion of franchising/branding/barrel-scraping is unbelievably depressing in terms of the game's medium-term future.
There's one good laugh in there, though, where the guy suggests a couple of existing US teams that Celtic might want to to look at.
"The San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues ..."
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QualityStreet1970
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11 Nov 2015, 06:34 PM
Post #4573
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- san meegs
- 11 Nov 2015, 06:28 PM
- Quote:
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This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison).
Can't see any issues being raised about us buying the Orange County Blues. None whatsoever. Adequate minds think alike!
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Santos L. Halper
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11 Nov 2015, 06:53 PM
Post #4574
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Saw on twitter after the Molde game that Peter Lawwell earns more in a year than any of the players on the park that night did. That seems absolutely staggering to me. Is that the norm? What kinda wages do the big CEOs in England pull in?
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Belgrano
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11 Nov 2015, 08:20 PM
Post #4575
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First, in Scott Allan we've pretty much got our own Dariusz Adamczuk; a largely pointless signing of a mildly talented domestic rival player, with very little consideration of where he might fit into the team or what areas of our side need strengthening most, signed purely to "get it up" our rivals. Now, in talk of this US franchise link-up we've got our own Northern Spirit; a deflection tactic to take away from failings in Europe?
If Lawwell starts giving exclusive "state of the union"-esque interviews to Chick Young from behind a mahogany desk, while wearing one of those stupid pastel coloured shirts with a white collar and cuffs - I'm out of here!
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jamiebhoy76
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11 Nov 2015, 09:04 PM
Post #4576
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Is there any further info on the supposed takeover or is that another distraction moonbeam?
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lenobhoy
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11 Nov 2015, 09:16 PM
Post #4577
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Catch some light and it'll be alright
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- jamiebhoy76
- 11 Nov 2015, 09:04 PM
Is there any further info on the supposed takeover or is that another distraction moonbeam? Richard Wilson said it we probably wont know for a month or so and it's something to keep and ear out for. It's a rumour and I doubt anything concrete will happen immediately. It may not even be a takeover but it may be us trying to get new investers. Who knows but we aint gonna know anything today or this week I doubt.
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jamiebhoy76
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11 Nov 2015, 09:29 PM
Post #4578
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- lenobhoy
- 11 Nov 2015, 09:16 PM
- jamiebhoy76
- 11 Nov 2015, 09:04 PM
Is there any further info on the supposed takeover or is that another distraction moonbeam?
Richard Wilson said it we probably wont know for a month or so and it's something to keep and ear out for. It's a rumour and I doubt anything concrete will happen immediately. It may not even be a takeover but it may be us trying to get new investers. Who knows but we aint gonna know anything today or this week I doubt. Roger.
If it's a month down the line it will surely be seeking new investors. Strange timing all the same...
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georgiesleftpeg
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11 Nov 2015, 09:49 PM
Post #4579
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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Weren't there stories going around a few weeks back about a group of business-type supporters with a good amount of wedge between them, trying to buy out Desmonds shareholding?
And was the word on the street not that Dick Dastardly was holding out for a good profit, not only for himself, but for the cronies he brought on board?
None too sure about the provenance of these tales, but they were certainly doing the rounds.
Alas, if this is the case, there doesn't seem to be much hope moving forward, and if indeed there's a spin on transatlantic buyouts, then this may just be a way of trying to get those interested in Desmond's shares to up the ante?
It seems far fetched to imagine that any moneybags yanks would be interested in us whilst we're plying our trade in the Scottish league.
Of course, the whole damn thang could just be more smoke and mirrors.
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Fly Pelican
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11 Nov 2015, 10:26 PM
Post #4580
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- arklys
- 11 Nov 2015, 06:10 PM
- georgiesleftpeg
- 11 Nov 2015, 04:59 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle article from the football lifeTransatlantic Takeover - Celtic must ignore the obvious to reap American rewardsEconomics, form those who see the word and switch off, is often described as the “Dismal Science”. It’s a gloomy subject but with massive ramifications. While for most Celtic fans, the news that the club is actively seeking to create a global network of clubs, such as has been done at Manchester City, has met with the entirely understandable reaction that, perhaps, the money would be better spent on the team the company own now rather than ones they’d like to own in the future, one has to look at the boring bits and see how this plan might actually work. There are two or three options on the table right now - the safe option, the unsafe option and the right option and all three are worth looking at in turn. THE SAFE OPTIONThis option revolves around going along the most obvious path imaginable - going full Irish. Start by getting a marketing partnership with two high profile sports entities in the US - the Boston Celtics and Notre Dame University (The Fighting Irish!). Then, have all three come together to help form a NASL expansion side based out of Boston or Providence to start playing in 2020 and link up with the New England Revolution so it acts similarly to a feeder side for both Celtic and them and doesn’t affect the Revs marketing too much. Seek to get tie ups with every Irish linked club you can and then try to run some sort of Celtic super brand. This is similar to what Manchester City are doing right now with the added bonus of having a cultural connection that extends beyond money. The cross-promotion is obvious, the market is obvious and it’s an option that is safe as houses but is also totally unambitious. That might seem an odd thing to say but essentially what Celtic would do in this method is try to place itself in the middle of markets which are already mature. Yes, there’s a lot of Ireland in New England, but the potential for growth is actually pretty limited. If one looks at Manchester City as an example, they parked their bus in the most culturally relevant city in the world, brought in legitimate superstars in Frank Lampard and David Villa and were able to get off the ground quickly with a big snazzy launch and commercial tie ups with everyone who was anyone. This safe option would involve Celtic parking their bus in a cultural hotbed, not bringing in superstars as they’d be unaffordable and playing the Irish card for an age. You can see how that is limiting. This safe option will work, but returns on investment will not exactly be astounding. THE UNSAFE OPTIONGet in with an established NASL club with a little bit of history (Carolina Railhawks, etc) and treat like a feeder side. Focus on Asia more by getting partnerships with markets the EPL have opened up - Thailand, Vietnam, etc - and tour annually. Acquire an A League club and attempt to crack Australia also. The benefits here are obvious - access to open, profitable markets while also having ties to established youth systems in the hole that, in 5 or 10 years, the next all white (that bit is crucial to what will come in the right option), all American hero is playing for Celtic and spearheading Celtic’s marketing efforts. If it works, you get marketable sportsmen who will earn the club a handsome profit in the long run and will be able to expand Celtic worldwide. If it doesn’t work, then it’s a lot of expense for limited exposure. There is no guarantee the South East Asian market will take to it and attempting to break English speaking markets in the USA and Australia at a time when those markets need a bit of star power added for any efforts to be noticed is very risky. Of the three options being presented here, this option would need the most investment in the short term and provides the most potential of flopping in the long term but, if it worked, would give Celtic a steady stream of money that would jump up based upon how good the players they could acquire from this feeder network are. THE RIGHT OPTIONNow, this is going to sound far far riskier than the other two but it’s a strategy that will work and would pay off in far greater numbers than the other two options. This is for one critical reason - it focuses on markets that are growing and not totally catered for right now. It may seem a bit weird that, in this day and age, we can even entertain the concept of a market which isn’t saturated with football, but it exists in the USA and that market is the West Coast. No major European football market has yet really had a go at cracking the West Coast for a couple of obvious reasons. The first is the time difference - the seven hour time gap isn’t conducive for the English market as even the Saturday late slot is kicking off at 10:30am in LA. The second is that La Liga has never had the collective bargaining to waltz into a major American network and try to get a contract similar to that of the EPL. While it may have presence in the Latin markets, in the wealthiest Latin market of all (the USA) it has very little for the time being. This leaves a gap into which a club like Celtic and a product like the SPFL can take advantage of. In terms of a club-based tie up, Celtic would be highly recommended to look at one of two propositions - one in the NASL (the tier below MLS) and one in the USL (the one below that) which would be the San Antonio Scorpions (San Antonio is the fastest growing city in the USA with a large Hispanic population getting wealthier) and the Orange County Blues (again, a large Hispanic population as based in LA plus historic UK links as the club is run by one Barry Venison). This then would get Celtic tied into a demographic which is not just growing, but whose spending power is also increasing. Some may point to Chivas USA not working but the circumstances there were those of the side essentially acting as Chivas Guadalajara’s reserves rather than as a functioning competitive side of it’s own. It means some alterations to how the season works as 7:30pm Saturday kick offs would become an absolute essential, so that games are played at lunchtime on the West Coast of the US, but none of the changes required are that drastic and would, in fact, increase the domestic audience for the SPFL by giving it a lead in from the EPL rather than clashing with it. (That this would mean the SPFL would then clash with La Liga which might sound like a bad thing, but the SPFL out-draws La Liga as it is. By taking away EPL competition, doing this would actually increase the potential audience available for the game on TV. While Police Scotland would likely have something to say about it, especially if one were to have a Celtic home game on at that time, they already permit Friday night games and the benefit to the local economy of fans staying over, as often seen from Sunday early games, would be massive) To copy this strategy in Asia, you simply do the exact same in India - a nation still finding it’s feet in terms of enjoying football, but also a nation where the cost of entry isn’t huge. There are issues with India’s own internal set up (primarily, it’s not been around that long and they have two leagues) but it also has 1 billion people that are almost uniformly mad about sport. Unlike China, where broadcasting has all gone behind subscriptions and/or online, the Indian market is still somewhat immature but still hungry for content. Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans. The Manchester City (or, should we say, the Abu Dhabi Football Family) model has it’s merits but it’s impossible for all but a couple of clubs to actually do what they did for the simple reason that it cost an absolutely exorbitant amount of money to do so. They blew in excess of £100m in setting up New York City alone for it to be one of the worst sides in MLS for it’s first season. Dermot Desmond may have a wealth somewhere in the region of Scrooge McDuck, but even he would baulk at that sort of investment. That isn’t to say that there aren’t cheap, wise investments out there - one simply just has to take the time to pause and identify the growth markets as they do still exist. If Celtic chose the safe option, few would blame them - it allies them with similar brands in America and appeals to Celtic’s traditional “heartland” so to speak. It will yield results but it will yield limited results from a market that other clubs and leagues have been to and mined thoroughly before. In contrast, no-one has effectively taken on the Hispanic market in the USA. It is football mad and you will see occasional Real Madrid and Barca fans, but mainly it isn’t catered for. The economic benefit to Celtic of working it well and doing something as much as finding and acquiring the next Clint Dempsey would be worth millions in merchandising alone - Shunsuke Nakamura sold well over 100,000 Celtic strips on his name. Clint Dempsey outsells everyone in MLS and has done so since day one - the impact of getting in on the ground level on that market is obvious. There is easy money to be made appealing to the traditional core. Appealing to the unloved, however, will earn Celtic a hell of a lot more. - See more at: http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/131958809446/transatlantic-takeover-celtic-must-ignore-the#sthash.61hYWRWp.dpufedit; dont shoot the messenger
- Quote:
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Breaking that nut is difficult but touring India (something European clubs haven’t done to a great extent) would win Celtic thousands of new fans.
Would it? Wouldn't they just see us and think, "This football thing looks a bit pish, think I'll stick with cricket/hockey/whatever"...? They would if we went over with a team of Blacketts and Ciftis. To pitch successfully to a broader market you have to invest in the product first.
But we aren't willing to do that are we?
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