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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,807 Views)
Mackin
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The Ginty McGinty genius
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I know I picked on the chairmans statement before with his club/company nonsense, but reading again, he opens with this:
Quote:
 
These results, which show an operating loss of £3.6m compared
to a profit of £11.8m last year, reflect two key factors. First, lower
contribution from the sale of player registrations, and second,
diminished income from competing in the UEFA Europa League
competition.


Maybe I'm blinded by hatred of these *****, but its like Desmond saying Rangers & Celtic in that order and not Celtic & Rangers. The first reason for lower turnover is not being in the CL, not the failure to sell players. It says everything about their mindset that they put selling players first in a statement about making less money.

EDIT: Effing Lawwell has done it as well.
Quote:
 
Off the pitch, it was also a challenging year. Our decision not to
transfer certain player registrations during the period, together with
failure to progress in the UEFA Champions League, have had a
significant impact on revenues and profits.
Edited by Mackin, 15 Oct 2015, 08:17 AM.
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McStay
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Espanyolification
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Mackin
15 Oct 2015, 08:16 AM
I know I picked on the chairmans statement before with his club/company nonsense, but reading again, he opens with this:
Quote:
 
These results, which show an operating loss of £3.6m compared
to a profit of £11.8m last year, reflect two key factors. First, lower
contribution from the sale of player registrations, and second,
diminished income from competing in the UEFA Europa League
competition.


Maybe I'm blinded by hatred of these *****, but its like Desmond saying Rangers & Celtic in that order and not Celtic & Rangers. The first reason for lower turnover is not being in the CL, not the failure to sell players. It says everything about their mindset that they put selling players first in a statement about making less money.

EDIT: Effing Lawwell has done it as well.
Quote:
 
Off the pitch, it was also a challenging year. Our decision not to
transfer certain player registrations during the period, together with
failure to progress in the UEFA Champions League, have had a
significant impact on revenues and profits.
It's a shame the filter kicks in when you give him his correct title :nono:

I love how he's worded it. Decision not to sell... anyone makes any half decent offer and they'd jump at it so don't give me this "decision" pish. Clearly trying to spin it as him putting the club's chances on the pitch before making a quick buck which as we all know by now is utter nonsense.

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highwideandhandsome
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Mackin
15 Oct 2015, 08:16 AM
I know I picked on the chairmans statement before with his club/company nonsense, but reading again, he opens with this:
Quote:
 
These results, which show an operating loss of £3.6m compared
to a profit of £11.8m last year, reflect two key factors. First, lower
contribution from the sale of player registrations, and second,
diminished income from competing in the UEFA Europa League
competition.


Maybe I'm blinded by hatred of these *****, but its like Desmond saying Rangers & Celtic in that order and not Celtic & Rangers. The first reason for lower turnover is not being in the CL, not the failure to sell players. It says everything about their mindset that they put selling players first in a statement about making less money.

EDIT: Effing Lawwell has done it as well.
Quote:
 
Off the pitch, it was also a challenging year. Our decision not to
transfer certain player registrations during the period, together with
failure to progress in the UEFA Champions League, have had a
significant impact on revenues and profits.
You're spot on mackin, but he's been treating the fans like gobshampooes for a while now. It's like listening to some lying bastard politician talking down to the people
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OverAndOver
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If that is what is in his contract then unfortunately he is due it.

However for a non playing employee of the club to be taking that much wedge out of the club whilst they continue to downsize the quality of the team year in year out is obscene.

Again there will be much more gnashing of teeth up to the AGM then once again it will be all quiet until they release the figures again at this time next year where we will go through the same process.



Unfortunately he is going nowhere unless he actually decides to move on himself - honestly can't see that happening any time soon
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Quiet Assasin
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OverAndOver
15 Oct 2015, 08:49 AM
If that is what is in his contract then unfortunately he is due it.

However for a non playing employee of the club to be taking that much wedge out of the club whilst they continue to downsize the quality of the team year in year out is obscene.

Again there will be much more gnashing of teeth up to the AGM then once again it will be all quiet until they release the figures again at this time next year where we will go through the same process.



Unfortunately he is going nowhere unless he actually decides to move on himself - honestly can't see that happening any time soon
You should not get a 'bonus' just for turning up.

If that's his salary - which it appears it is - then they are most likely using 'bonus' as some tax dodging mechanism.
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Wanyerma
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CEO incentivised to make us 3rd rate, and Eureka, we're nearly there. This bear is baffled.
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idyllwild


Has there been a year when PL's bonus hasn't kicked in? If that's the case, then it might be possible to figure out exactly what criteria has to be met for him to receive it.
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Mackin
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The Ginty McGinty genius
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connorj
14 Oct 2015, 08:07 PM
If Lawwell is alive and employed by Celtic he'll be paid his bonus. Actually I'm beginning to think that may be the actual criteria in his contract.

Take a look back over the last 10 years.

Whether we qualify for the CL or not he gets paid his bonus.
Whether we make a profit on transfers or not he gets paid his bonus.
Whether we win the league or not he gets paid his bonus.
Whether the company makes a profit or not he gets paid his bonus.
Whether ST sales go up or down he gets paid his bonus.
Whether sponsorship revenue goes up or down he gets paid his bonus.

It's utterly bizzare. I would guess Dermot Desmond wouldn't be the easiest person to work for and would be the kind of guy that would expect an awful lot of his employees but Lawwell manages to walk away with £1m a year just for keeping a £50m turnover business going.

Fwiw I don't think replacing Lawwell would bring the wholesale changes that some on here imagine, (The league we're in and the corresponding TV/sponsorship money available to us coupled with CL football depending on 3 knockout ties in July/August each year means things probably wouldn't change a whole lot) but to see him get such extortionate pay while we're forced to cut back everywhere else is just sickening.
The accounts mention Key Performance Indicators:
Quote:
 
KEY PERFORMANCE INDICATORS
The Group monitors performance against the following key
performance indicators:
• Football success
• Match attendance statistics
• Sales performance per division
• Wage and other costs
• Capital expenditure
• Profit and cash generation
• Shareholder value


From going through the various statements we see that:

Total Revenue - Down
Football Revenue - Down
Multimedia Revenue - Down
Football success - Failed in CL
Corporate - Missed budget
Merchandising Revenue - Down
Attendance - Down
Season ticket sales - Down

The bonus criteria is:
Quote:
 
Annual Performance Related Bonus Scheme
The Group operates a bonus scheme for executive Directors and some
permanent employees.
The scheme has the following key objectives:
1 Improving and sustaining the financial performance of the Group
from year to year;
2 Delivering and enhancing shareholder value;
3 Enhancing the reputation and standing of Celtic;
4 Delivering consistently high standards of service to Celtic and its
customers; and
5 Attracting, retaining and motivating talented individuals
whose skills and services will enable Celtic to meet its strategic
objectives.

Football players, the football management team and football
backroom staff are subject to separate bonus schemes that reward
on-field success.


2, 3 & 4 are so vague that Lawwell probably meets them automatically, although not being in the CL means points 2 & 3 should be automatic failure. He has failed in point 1, and point 5 cant be met if we are committed to selling our best players every year.

Like last year, the Remuneration Committee decided to make an additional bonus award to Mr. Lawwell, on an ex gratia basis, for the financial year having taken account of the scale of incremental value delivered for the benefit of the Company through fulfilment of the objectives set for him.

There is almost no way that he cant get his bonus every single year.
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idyllwild


Effing hell, that's shameless. :lol:
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TK57
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GTF, if that's the model, it ain't working.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

As Aldo suggested, the only thing that will make DD sit up and take notice is being hit in the pocket. We are fast approaching the time for some kind of concerted action to try and remove Lawwell and his preposterous salary.

The AGM should be a good place to start.
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Adam Smith 11
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The CEO's bonus will probably be constructed year on year to take into consideration the specific objectives to be met. There may be a consistent set of criteria (probably the KPIs listed in the accounts) with changing weightings all the way down to 0%.

Also within the year an adjustment can be made (I think this is why the continual emphasis on "delayed" sale of players whenever the loss is mentioned), PL may have had a profit target of £5m, selling a £10m player way above book value may have triggered this. The board though may have asked to delay this for footballing reasons which at a personal level PL could argue that this was moving the goalposts which would trigger a renegotiation.

I believe that DD works on the premise that PL's negotiating skills on the big deals gains the business more than the £1M he costs and that a less experienced CEO would be a false economy. I'm not saying that I agree with this just rationalising his thought process.

Changing a CEO who is a safe pair of hands when the business is trading steadily in a market with no great upside potential without major investment is not something that happens a lot in normal business.

The board as part of their "Business Review" are not seeing attendances or merchandise fall, 10% reduction in attendance since the second phase of downsizing started and staying steady the last couple of years would not be grounds for removing a CEO normally unless the board felt they were missing out on something that their direct competitors are picking up.

On a business level currently PL is bombproof. Why take a risk when their is not a high chance of bigger reward.

On a football level we are probably now punching below our weight in Europe and if that continues it will eventually impact the business, I would guess failure to qualify for CL next year would put PL's position under severe pressure.

As a fan it is frustrating to see this and I would hope the board feel under pressure to try and resolve the difference between our view of the CEOs performance and his bonus. I think at least 50% of it should be champions league qualification.





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JonnyB67
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Sickening results. Does nothing to deserve that bonus.
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McStay
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fatboab
15 Oct 2015, 09:48 AM
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

As Aldo suggested, the only thing that will make DD sit up and take notice is being hit in the pocket. We are fast approaching the time for some kind of concerted action to try and remove Lawwell and his preposterous salary.

The AGM should be a good place to start.
There is little appetite within the support to go and force the necessary changes IMO. Most can't even be arsed to turn up to the games these days.
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idyllwild


Adam Smith 11
15 Oct 2015, 10:04 AM
The CEO's bonus will probably be constructed year on year to take into consideration the specific objectives to be met. There may be a consistent set of criteria (probably the KPIs listed in the accounts) with changing weightings all the way down to 0%.

Also within the year an adjustment can be made (I think this is why the continual emphasis on "delayed" sale of players whenever the loss is mentioned), PL may have had a profit target of £5m, selling a £10m player way above book value may have triggered this. The board though may have asked to delay this for footballing reasons which at a personal level PL could argue that this was moving the goalposts which would trigger a renegotiation.

I believe that DD works on the premise that PL's negotiating skills on the big deals gains the business more than the £1M he costs and that a less experienced CEO would be a false economy. I'm not saying that I agree with this just rationalising his thought process.

Changing a CEO who is a safe pair of hands when the business is trading steadily in a market with no great upside potential without major investment is not something that happens a lot in normal business.

The board as part of their "Business Review" are not seeing attendances or merchandise fall, 10% reduction in attendance since the second phase of downsizing started and staying steady the last couple of years would not be grounds for removing a CEO normally unless the board felt they were missing out on something that their direct competitors are picking up.

On a business level currently PL is bombproof. Why take a risk when their is not a high chance of bigger reward.

On a football level we are probably now punching below our weight in Europe and if that continues it will eventually impact the business, I would guess failure to qualify for CL next year would put PL's position under severe pressure.

As a fan it is frustrating to see this and I would hope the board feel under pressure to try and resolve the difference between our view of the CEOs performance and his bonus. I think at least 50% of it should be champions league qualification.





Aye, I agree that PL probably brings in transfer revenue which exceeds his salary. So as far as our transfer dealings go, it would indeed be a false economy to punt him. :thumbsup: I've no problem with him being paid £1m if his only remit (and the only thing for which he is responsible) is transfer negotiations.

However, as the CEO he is responsible for everything. It's a false economy to pay him £1m a year, even if he can bring in an extra £5m because he's great at negotiating a higher transfer, if we then lose £20m because we can't qualify for the CL.

He is being given a full bonus for something that is only one part of his remit. Either change his bonus structure or change his remit.
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ronny_is_not_da_man
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You could easily make a case for all 5 being failures yet all is rosy and the dick gets his £400K odds bonus???

As I said earlier in the thread I ain't one for board bashing but the product on the pitch over the last 5 years or so has gradually got worse and we can't even qualify from the so called easier route into the CL. We are winning a one horse race but far from convincingly and most of our European performances would send an insomniac to sleep. How does that enhance our brand?

It would be easier to swallow if they explicitly tell us profit before the team and stop insulting people's intelligence.
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tinytim81
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fatboab
15 Oct 2015, 09:48 AM
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

As Aldo suggested, the only thing that will make DD sit up and take notice is being hit in the pocket. We are fast approaching the time for some kind of concerted action to try and remove Lawwell and his preposterous salary.

The AGM should be a good place to start.
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

Serious question, how do you know?

What metric is everyone using to categorically conclude that a salary (including bonus) of one million is unjustifiable for a CEO of a company that turns over fifty one million?

This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinely curious to know if there is some sort of standard measure when it comes to CEO wage packets. Is there a general rule of thumb for CEO wages (i.e. salary percentage against turnover) or are the many claims that he gets paid too much entirely subjective?
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idyllwild


tinytim81
15 Oct 2015, 10:49 AM
fatboab
15 Oct 2015, 09:48 AM
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

As Aldo suggested, the only thing that will make DD sit up and take notice is being hit in the pocket. We are fast approaching the time for some kind of concerted action to try and remove Lawwell and his preposterous salary.

The AGM should be a good place to start.
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

Serious question, how do you know?

What metric is everyone using to categorically conclude that a salary (including bonus) of one million is unjustifiable for a CEO of a company that turns over fifty one million?

This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinely curious to know if there is some sort of standard measure when it comes to CEO wage packets. Is there a general rule of thumb for CEO wages (i.e. salary percentage against turnover) or are the many claims that he gets paid too much entirely subjective?
The average CEO salary in the UK is £100k. Football isn't a complex business, and Celtic aren't a large company. Asda in the Forge probably turnover more than Celtic.

Of course it's subjective, but even his base salary is significantly disproportionate to the role. It's a £250-300k role.
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JimG31Bhoy
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Unfortunately, our business model is not based on ambition on the field but on transferring our best players for a profit. Ki, Ledley, Wanyama, Hooper, Foster, Matthews, Van Djik with Bitton and Johannsen being the next to go. It has been a disaster with regards to Europe and a rapidly diminishing fan base.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

tinytim81
15 Oct 2015, 10:49 AM
fatboab
15 Oct 2015, 09:48 AM
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

As Aldo suggested, the only thing that will make DD sit up and take notice is being hit in the pocket. We are fast approaching the time for some kind of concerted action to try and remove Lawwell and his preposterous salary.

The AGM should be a good place to start.
There is absolutely nothing to justify that kind of salary/bonus for the CEO of a small Company like Celtic PLC.

Serious question, how do you know?

What metric is everyone using to categorically conclude that a salary (including bonus) of one million is unjustifiable for a CEO of a company that turns over fifty one million?

This isn't a loaded question. I'm genuinely curious to know if there is some sort of standard measure when it comes to CEO wage packets. Is there a general rule of thumb for CEO wages (i.e. salary percentage against turnover) or are the many claims that he gets paid too much entirely subjective?
A CEO should not earn 2% of a Companies annual turnover. It's preposterous. As Idyllwild pointed out, the average CEO salary in a small Company like Celtic is around £100k . If the same ratio as Lawwell's was applied to Manchester City ( turnover £359m) , their CEO would earn over £7m.
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