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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,827 Views)
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Bobby Peru
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9 Sep 2015, 10:50 AM
Post #3901
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The Maestro
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence. I don't think anyone is forgetting the players or the manager. A cursory glance through various other threads would show that. This thread however is about "the board". Over the last decade we have had success and failure, for the failures managers and players have lost their jobs. Lawwell has sailed through the whole thing.
Given the advantages we have both domestically and in terms of seeding for the CL we haven't achieved what we should have. On a game by game, season by season basis the manager and players will carry the can for any failure. But over a period of time then surely the overall strategy and direction of the club has to be looked at.
The huns will be back next season, that in itself is nothing to be scared of, they won't be a threat next term but it means we will have had 5 years without a challenge and yet despite this we will possibly be in a position where the team needs to be completely rebuilt. Good scouting, a productive youth set up (and strategy) and astute transfer dealings would have resulted in us being out of sight for the foreseeable future. The fact is we look like we won't have any momentum and be starting all oveer again. A shambles of a situation which should result in heads rolling at the very top.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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9 Sep 2015, 10:53 AM
Post #3902
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....give us a glimmer......
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This notion that the board didn't prepare well for the CL qualifiers this time doesn't seem right to me. The board did not arrange any of the usual lucrative pre-season fixtures across the globe this time round to help the manager and the players (at his request) and players were brought in early this time to replace (a criticism from last season) We invested enough money to get through the qualifiers too but unfortunately the coach seems to have opted for a bad choice in ciftci and made some terrible decisions across the course of the vital 2 legs with malmo. I can't see how that is lawwells fault ? On the surface it appears to me that the board have supported the manager.
I've always been of the opinion that blaming lawwell is futile,he is there to implement dermot's policy and that's exactly what is unfolding. That's not to say he doesn't merit criticism - he has got a lot wrong and he does merit it, but dredging up fantasia about his bonus being somehow tax-free really doesn't help the discussion.
It's all very well going on about "speculating to accumulate" but that means paying big money for players to play in the SPFL as well as the CL and i thought we had appreciated those days have long departed.
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
Post #3903
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- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:41 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence.
Who is suggesting we pay £10m for a striker ? This close season is not a one off. My post covers the past seven seasons. Peter Lawwell says that he wants to finish a transfer window by being stronger than before it started. Well are we ? Is Boyata better than Denayet ? Ciftci better than Guidetti? They couldn't be bothered it would seem to replace Scepovic. Yes there gave been times that players and managers have got it wrong but who hires the manager and buys the players ? Who are you suggesting that we could/should have bought in order to get past Malmo?
What I am saying is that even if you bought a £10m striker there is no guarantee that he will play well. We spent decent money by our standards on Scepovic last year and it hasn't worked out yet. Arguably he hasn't had enough games but for whatever reason it hasn't worked.
We had an £11m centre half in the team against Malmo and we couldn't defend a set piece and hold onto a two goal lead. Would buying a £3m defender before the game have helped that?
Question - In the past 3 seasons, do you think the squad we have had at our disposal has been good enough to get through those qualifiers?
Despite falling attendances, financial instability and virtually no domestic TV money the board have provided a competitive wage budget and some transfer funds. I'm not saying they have been perfect - they clear haven't at times - but these are professional footballers paid a huge amount of money and they can't beat Malmo, Maribor, Legia Warsaw... the list goes on. That is fundamentally NOT the fault of the board.
Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation?
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Bobby Peru
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9 Sep 2015, 10:56 AM
Post #3904
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The Maestro
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation?
Argument lost.
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 10:59 AM
Post #3905
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:50 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence.
I don't think anyone is forgetting the players or the manager. A cursory glance through various other threads would show that. This thread however is about "the board". Over the last decade we have had success and failure, for the failures managers and players have lost their jobs. Lawwell has sailed through the whole thing. Given the advantages we have both domestically and in terms of seeding for the CL we haven't achieved what we should have. On a game by game, season by season basis the manager and players will carry the can for any failure. But over a period of time then surely the overall strategy and direction of the club has to be looked at. The huns will be back next season, that in itself is nothing to be scared of, they won't be a threat next term but it means we will have had 5 years without a challenge and yet despite this we will possibly be in a position where the team needs to be completely rebuilt. Good scouting, a productive youth set up (and strategy) and astute transfer dealings would have resulted in us being out of sight for the foreseeable future. The fact is we look like we won't have any momentum and be starting all oveer again. A shambles of a situation which should result in heads rolling at the very top. We have had success and failure on the pitch. We have not had significant failure in the boardroom. We have pretty much balanced the books year on year in very difficult circumstances - including armageddon.
Every season the board have put a squad in place that is capable of winning the league and qualifying for the Champions League. When the team has failed to do so it is the fault of the board, according to some.
I disagree. If we were supposed to be competing with Porto and Monaco and Ajax and Anderlecht to get into the Champions League then we would need a different approach. But we are competing with Malmo and Maribor and Legia Warsaw. The players we have are more than capable of meeting that challenge but they are either too lazy or lacking in the mental strength to do it.
I cant blame the board for that.
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Corky Buczek
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9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
Post #3906
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:41 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence.
Who is suggesting we pay £10m for a striker ? This close season is not a one off. My post covers the past seven seasons. Peter Lawwell says that he wants to finish a transfer window by being stronger than before it started. Well are we ? Is Boyata better than Denayet ? Ciftci better than Guidetti? They couldn't be bothered it would seem to replace Scepovic. Yes there gave been times that players and managers have got it wrong but who hires the manager and buys the players ?
Who are you suggesting that we could/should have bought in order to get past Malmo? What I am saying is that even if you bought a £10m striker there is no guarantee that he will play well. We spent decent money by our standards on Scepovic last year and it hasn't worked out yet. Arguably he hasn't had enough games but for whatever reason it hasn't worked. We had an £11m centre half in the team against Malmo and we couldn't defend a set piece and hold onto a two goal lead. Would buying a £3m defender before the game have helped that? Question - In the past 3 seasons, do you think the squad we have had at our disposal has been good enough to get through those qualifiers? Despite falling attendances, financial instability and virtually no domestic TV money the board have provided a competitive wage budget and some transfer funds. I'm not saying they have been perfect - they clear haven't at times - but these are professional footballers paid a huge amount of money and they can't beat Malmo, Maribor, Legia Warsaw... the list goes on. That is fundamentally NOT the fault of the board. Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation? did I blame the board for being caught on the break after 57 minutes when 2 nil up ?
However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.
And if hiring managers with no experience is all we can expect - why pay a CEO £1M a year for running the club
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
Post #3907
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:56 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation?
Argument lost. Eh?
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Bobby Peru
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9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
Post #3908
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The Maestro
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:59 AM
- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:50 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence.
I don't think anyone is forgetting the players or the manager. A cursory glance through various other threads would show that. This thread however is about "the board". Over the last decade we have had success and failure, for the failures managers and players have lost their jobs. Lawwell has sailed through the whole thing. Given the advantages we have both domestically and in terms of seeding for the CL we haven't achieved what we should have. On a game by game, season by season basis the manager and players will carry the can for any failure. But over a period of time then surely the overall strategy and direction of the club has to be looked at. The huns will be back next season, that in itself is nothing to be scared of, they won't be a threat next term but it means we will have had 5 years without a challenge and yet despite this we will possibly be in a position where the team needs to be completely rebuilt. Good scouting, a productive youth set up (and strategy) and astute transfer dealings would have resulted in us being out of sight for the foreseeable future. The fact is we look like we won't have any momentum and be starting all oveer again. A shambles of a situation which should result in heads rolling at the very top.
We have had success and failure on the pitch. We have not had significant failure in the boardroom. We have pretty much balanced the books year on year in very difficult circumstances - including armageddon. Every season the board have put a squad in place that is capable of winning the league and qualifying for the Champions League. When the team has failed to do so it is the fault of the board, according to some. I disagree. If we were supposed to be competing with Porto and Monaco and Ajax and Anderlecht to get into the Champions League then we would need a different approach. But we are competing with Malmo and Maribor and Legia Warsaw. The players we have are more than capable of meeting that challenge but they are either too lazy or lacking in the mental strength to do it. I cant blame the board for that. You can't blame the board at all?
As i've said the players and management have to take a big share of the blame and i'm not one of those guys who blames Lawwell for everything but to say you won't blame the board at all is just bizarre.
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
Post #3909
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- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:41 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Who are you suggesting that we could/should have bought in order to get past Malmo? What I am saying is that even if you bought a £10m striker there is no guarantee that he will play well. We spent decent money by our standards on Scepovic last year and it hasn't worked out yet. Arguably he hasn't had enough games but for whatever reason it hasn't worked. We had an £11m centre half in the team against Malmo and we couldn't defend a set piece and hold onto a two goal lead. Would buying a £3m defender before the game have helped that? Question - In the past 3 seasons, do you think the squad we have had at our disposal has been good enough to get through those qualifiers? Despite falling attendances, financial instability and virtually no domestic TV money the board have provided a competitive wage budget and some transfer funds. I'm not saying they have been perfect - they clear haven't at times - but these are professional footballers paid a huge amount of money and they can't beat Malmo, Maribor, Legia Warsaw... the list goes on. That is fundamentally NOT the fault of the board. Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation?
did I blame the board for being caught on the break after 57 minutes when 2 nil up ? However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players. And if hiring managers with no experience is all we can expect - why pay a CEO £1M a year for running the club However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.
That is absolutely the fault of the players! What more can the board do than put a better management team and group of players in place??
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Bobby Peru
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9 Sep 2015, 11:03 AM
Post #3910
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The Maestro
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:56 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
Who do you suggest the board appoint as manager or sign as players that would improve the situation?
Argument lost.  Eh? Trotting out the "who could we have signed that is better?" line to folk on MB's who aren't scouts is the weakest argument going.
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 11:05 AM
Post #3911
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:59 AM
- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:50 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We have had success and failure on the pitch. We have not had significant failure in the boardroom. We have pretty much balanced the books year on year in very difficult circumstances - including armageddon. Every season the board have put a squad in place that is capable of winning the league and qualifying for the Champions League. When the team has failed to do so it is the fault of the board, according to some. I disagree. If we were supposed to be competing with Porto and Monaco and Ajax and Anderlecht to get into the Champions League then we would need a different approach. But we are competing with Malmo and Maribor and Legia Warsaw. The players we have are more than capable of meeting that challenge but they are either too lazy or lacking in the mental strength to do it. I cant blame the board for that.
You can't blame the board at all? As i've said the players and management have to take a big share of the blame and i'm not one of those guys who blames Lawwell for everything but to say you won't blame the board at all is just bizarre. There are times when we could have been quicker in the transfer market and spent more money.
I think we are agreeing to an extent here - the mix of blame has to be shared - but my point is that we had/have a squad that is absolutely capable of beating Malmo and Maribor. The board have not let us down in that regard. The manager and the players have. They have to take the majority of the blame for me. What are we paying them for??
P.S. Agreed that Lawwell's salary is a bit spicy for someone in his position in a company of our size but compared to the players' wages it is probably fair.
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 11:06 AM
Post #3912
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:03 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:56 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
 Eh?
Trotting out the "who could we have signed that is better?" line to folk on MB's who aren't scouts is the weakest argument going. We all seem to be experts come August and January every year though...
All I am saying is that the squad has always been good enough. At least on paper.
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Corky Buczek
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9 Sep 2015, 11:06 AM
Post #3913
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:54 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
did I blame the board for being caught on the break after 57 minutes when 2 nil up ? However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players. And if hiring managers with no experience is all we can expect - why pay a CEO £1M a year for running the club However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.That is absolutely the fault of the players! What more can the board do than put a better management team and group of players in place?? OK so you accept that the defeats to the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Happoel Tel Avi , Sion, Legia, Maribor and Malmo was down to poor managerial decisions and inexperience yet no blame is attached to the very well remunerated CEO and directors who appointed those managers ?
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Bobby Peru
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9 Sep 2015, 11:07 AM
Post #3914
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The Maestro
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- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:05 AM
- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:59 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You can't blame the board at all? As i've said the players and management have to take a big share of the blame and i'm not one of those guys who blames Lawwell for everything but to say you won't blame the board at all is just bizarre.
There are times when we could have been quicker in the transfer market and spent more money. I think we are agreeing to an extent here - the mix of blame has to be shared - but my point is that we had/have a squad that is absolutely capable of beating Malmo and Maribor. The board have not let us down in that regard. The manager and the players have. They have to take the majority of the blame for me. What are we paying them for?? P.S. Agreed that Lawwell's salary is a bit spicy for someone in his position in a company of our size but compared to the players' wages it is probably fair. The managers and the players are to blame for individual match and competition failures. They are accountable for these failures and will ultimately pay the price.
The board (Lawwell) is accountable for the overall lack of strategy and progression and a seeming happiness to stay a step ahead of sevco and have a half hearted punt at the CL every year. He is not accountable and will not pay the price.
This is the problem.
EDIT - At least now you are saying the blame should be shared which is an improvement on "the board can't be blamed at all"
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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9 Sep 2015, 11:13 AM
Post #3915
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....give us a glimmer......
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- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:06 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.That is absolutely the fault of the players! What more can the board do than put a better management team and group of players in place??
OK so you accept that the defeats to the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Happoel Tel Avi , Sion, Legia, Maribor and Malmo was down to poor managerial decisions and inexperience yet no blame is attached to the very well remunerated CEO and directors who appointed those managers ? The common theme with those teams that defeated us is that every one of them had better home based players. They did not need to spend significant amounts to attempt to qualify. Its starting to look like the board has finally got the message on that one.
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Chronic town
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9 Sep 2015, 11:18 AM
Post #3916
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- MILLIGANS ISLAND
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:53 AM
This notion that the board didn't prepare well for the CL qualifiers this time doesn't seem right to me. The board did not arrange any of the usual lucrative pre-season fixtures across the globe this time round to help the manager and the players (at his request) and players were brought in early this time to replace (a criticism from last season) We invested enough money to get through the qualifiers too but unfortunately the coach seems to have opted for a bad choice in ciftci and made some terrible decisions across the course of the vital 2 legs with malmo. I can't see how that is lawwells fault ? On the surface it appears to me that the board have supported the manager.
I've always been of the opinion that blaming lawwell is futile,he is there to implement dermot's policy and that's exactly what is unfolding. That's not to say he doesn't merit criticism - he has got a lot wrong and he does merit it, but dredging up fantasia about his bonus being somehow tax-free really doesn't help the discussion.
It's all very well going on about "speculating to accumulate" but that means paying big money for players to play in the SPFL as well as the CL and i thought we had appreciated those days have long departed. You could argue that the preparations on the pitch were inadequate. We went into the qualifiers short in key positions, both in terms of quality, and bodies. More broadly, while we should have had enough to get past Malmo, the margins were too slight between both sides. The margins have been too slight for a few years now. That doesn't mean we have to go nuts with cash, and there's the issue of attracting quality to Scotland. Still, if you take a long view, the people who run the football business have come up short. Take the amount of money we've spunked on dud strikers for starters.
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Corky Buczek
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9 Sep 2015, 11:18 AM
Post #3917
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- MILLIGANS ISLAND
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:13 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:06 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deepHowever getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.
That is absolutely the fault of the players! What more can the board do than put a better management team and group of players in place??
OK so you accept that the defeats to the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Happoel Tel Avi , Sion, Legia, Maribor and Malmo was down to poor managerial decisions and inexperience yet no blame is attached to the very well remunerated CEO and directors who appointed those managers ?
The common theme with those teams that defeated us is that every one of them had better home based players. They did not need to spend significant amounts to attempt to qualify. Its starting to look like the board has finally got the message on that one. Those teams also had a number of foreigners in their ranks - agree to disagree if you think the board are learning lessons.
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Gothamcelt
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9 Sep 2015, 11:21 AM
Post #3918
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:50 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:31 AM
Hold on a wee minute here.
Yes, expectations have been lowered and yes, at times we should be investing more in the team at an earlier stage in the transfer windows. But this year we have brought players in early - Ciftic, Boyata - and as far as I could see (and many posters on KDS were in complete agreement) we had a squad that should have been more than capable of beating any other team in the CL qualifying (champions route). More than capable.
We can't hold on to our best players because of the behemoth that is the EPL on our doorstep but we have a squad that should be good enough to progress. We looked like little boys lost in the last 25 minutes against Malmo at home and then for most of the game away from home. Part of that is the manager's fault, yes, but if you can't defend at home when you are 2-0 up and then 3-1 up against an ok team from Sweden then you don't deserve to go through. When you can't header the ball, when you can't pass it 5 yards to another hooped jersey - why is that Peter Lawwell's fault?
Those boys are paid a FORTUNE to play professional football for Celtic. £500k per year and the rest. They are the envy of every young man in that stadium. They are more than good enough to win these matches but for whatever reason - mental strength, lack of motivation, fear of losing, whatever it is - we have been let down time and time again against lesser teams.
That isn't always the fault of the board of directors. We are too quick to forgive the players that are actually out on the pitch. They are better than their opponents. They are certainly better paid than their opponents.
They are letting us down all too often. Paying £10m for a striker is certainly not guaranteed to change that fact. Any board who did so would be guilty of gross negligence.
I don't think anyone is forgetting the players or the manager. A cursory glance through various other threads would show that. This thread however is about "the board". Over the last decade we have had success and failure, for the failures managers and players have lost their jobs. Lawwell has sailed through the whole thing. Given the advantages we have both domestically and in terms of seeding for the CL we haven't achieved what we should have. On a game by game, season by season basis the manager and players will carry the can for any failure. But over a period of time then surely the overall strategy and direction of the club has to be looked at. The huns will be back next season, that in itself is nothing to be scared of, they won't be a threat next term but it means we will have had 5 years without a challenge and yet despite this we will possibly be in a position where the team needs to be completely rebuilt. Good scouting, a productive youth set up (and strategy) and astute transfer dealings would have resulted in us being out of sight for the foreseeable future. The fact is we look like we won't have any momentum and be starting all oveer again. A shambles of a situation which should result in heads rolling at the very top. We constantly read stories on here and in the papers of how rangers went down the wrong route and should have been building for the future when they were in division 3.
As BP says, they will be back up next season, won't be a major threat just the possible banana skin on our way to try an win the league. They will need to re-invest in their playing squad but so will we. We won't have to invest in our squad as much as them but surely we should only be looking at one or two players? Instead we will be looking for replacements for our loan players and players out of contract (if any first squad are). Our back line may need to be gutted out and re-fitted as the laon players there may not be good enough or decide that they have had enough.
It is hard for us to keep our 'big' players but surely the board could invest in a seasoned decent priced defender (easier said than done) to build the defence around? So every year it is not all change and draft in players like Mulgrew and Ambrose to fill in.
We, like rangers, never go the stability in the team this season to carry on into the next, at lest we will have January to bring someone in...no?
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embdysman
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9 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
Post #3919
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- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:06 AM
- embdysman
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:02 AM
- Corky Buczek
- 9 Sep 2015, 11:00 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
However getting fed our dinner by teams with far fewer resources than us on an almost annual basis suggests that there more to it than just poor managers or players.That is absolutely the fault of the players! What more can the board do than put a better management team and group of players in place??
OK so you accept that the defeats to the likes of Braga, Utrecht, Happoel Tel Avi , Sion, Legia, Maribor and Malmo was down to poor managerial decisions and inexperience yet no blame is attached to the very well remunerated CEO and directors who appointed those managers ? Partly the managers but mainly the players to be honest. It is the men on the park that do the business.
I don't think our managerial appointments have been particularly horrendous. Ronny Delia is a passionate young coach who won the league in Norway with a small club. He is a sensible appointment. He has a squad good enough to qualify. That was the consensus before the qualifiers started but suddenly its PL's fault now?
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Flawless
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9 Sep 2015, 11:27 AM
Post #3920
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- Bobby Peru
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:41 AM
- Flawless
- 9 Sep 2015, 10:37 AM
- TheEvilGenius
- 6 Sep 2015, 06:27 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deepLennon couldn't see how he was being stitched up
He jumped cause he thought he could do better. Turns out, he ended up in a club with a far worse state. Grass isn't always greener.
I doubt it, i'm pretty sure he would have walked in the full knowledge his next club would be a step down from Celtic (maybe not as far down as Bolton right enough  ) but he would also have known that it would be impossible to take us forward and that even to maintain the level of success of the previous couple of seasons would have been tough. Those restrictions were in place - he had a couple of good seasons and his stock was high, he stayed a year longer and watched us get routinely dismantled in Europe and he bailed before his managerial stock plummeted further.
He was expecting offers from lower end premiership clubs and they didn't come. He ended up in Bolton. Shame for him.
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