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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,830 Views)
Greenock_Celt
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The game is over, the rebels have won.
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Plus yes, it is obvious that most signings are not down to Deila, we have a scouting system and a long term plan. He will have his in put and reccomend players he wants but he doesn't have free rein over the players we sign
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Wanyerma
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Considering retirement
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Still incredulous there are people defending Lawwell. Letting Scepovic leave without a replacement is incompetence, and can't be tarted up.
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QualityStreet1970
First-team starter
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Greenock_Celt
4 Sep 2015, 07:07 PM
There is a difference between having a right to win a game, like you are trying to make out is being said and having expectations that as a club who has a budget and resources well beyond Malmo should be winning a 2 legged tie against them.

Celtic don't have the right to win the SPL but do you expect us to win it? If your answer is no your lying to try and keep whatever your argument is going.

As I said we haven't spent what budget we had wisely enough, we also haven't invested enough in recent years to be able to realistically compete if and when we do get to the Champions League, our last outing showed that with pretty depressing results.

You are more than capable of being able to criticise the board and management team whilst supporting the team and giving the management time to do whatever they are trying to do. It doesn't have to be blind support or complete hostility.
There's nothing particularly contentious here--it's all pretty basic common sense, so I can't quite see how anyone would bother making the effort required to contrive a contrary argument.

Things have gone far beyond arguing over these basic facts. The thing we need to be talking/thinking about is what, if anything, can be done to avoid repeating the same mistakes indefinitely. And if anything can be done, how long should we expect to wait before the happens. And here's one that doesn't bear thinking about: what are we expected to do in the meantime?
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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This 'argument' boils down to those who think the board are doing a bad job (which now appears to be the majority view) and those who think the board are doing as well as can be expected. Whoever is right is actually irrelevant - the only thing which counts is how the business's customers/supporters feel they are being treated and whether the product represents value for money. Peter Lawwell appears to have an aloof, almost uncaring attitude towards fellow Celtic supporters and their wishes. He knows what's best for us and that's the end of it. Meanwhile, people are voting with their feet. Lawwell and the board must take on board the wishes of the people who keep the club afloat. That's not to say he should abandon good business practice but he has to find a way to appease the people who ultimately pay his wages.
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Ess
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Abooganza!
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We had a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve the squad with no real serious domestic opposition.
I would say we are in worse shape than we were 4 years ago.
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Joe the Baker
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It feels like yesterday... I wish it was tomorrow.
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Ess
4 Sep 2015, 08:19 PM
We had a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve the squad with no real serious domestic opposition.
I would say we are in worse shape than we were 4 years ago.
Easily. I don't think that can be argued against.
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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Just to expand on my point further - essentially the customer is always right; here is what Fergus McCann had to say when Jock Brown left the club.
Quote:
 
"I am personally very sorry that Jock has had to leave. Many of his special abilities and his enormous effort and commitment to the club will be missed.
"It was clear when Jock joined Celtic in June 1997 that he was an outstanding candidate for the new post of football general manager.

"He brought valuable abilities to a complex and difficult job. His contribution was significant and appreciated especially during our championship season.

"Unfortunately in recent times it became clear to the board that despite Jock's best efforts progress in some important matters and issues had become compromised.

"This may have had an adverse affect of the current football atmosphere and the backing of our supporters. I have discussed these matters with Jock and he accepts this. Consequently he tendered his resignation.

"Jock appreciates that there is a feeling within the massive Celtic support that a significant change is desired. He acknowledges that under the circumstances he requires to be the major part of this change."

Fegus McCann knew and understood that regardless of the rights and wrongs of Jock Brown's departure - the Celtic fans wanted him out and that was it.
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mallorcabhoy
Getting on a bit
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fatboab
3 Sep 2015, 08:49 PM
Spoke at length today with a member of our staff. He said we are not training hard enough. This is why we are tiring in games. Doesn't seem to tie in with the RD mantra, but that's what he said. He also said the manager and his team asked for a left back and a striker in the summer window.
Didn't sound very happy about much, and I got the feeling that it's not a particularly happy camp right now.
I'm sure, given our recent capitulation in Malmo things arent great in CP at the moment .

However, why would our training regime be any different than it was 3, 6, 9 months ago?

Make no mistake there are only ever 11 players who rate the coach/manager. The rest thnk they should be playing and the manager hasnt a clue. Football players are dumplings.
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mallorcabhoy
Getting on a bit
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QualityStreet1970
4 Sep 2015, 08:03 PM
Greenock_Celt
4 Sep 2015, 07:07 PM
There is a difference between having a right to win a game, like you are trying to make out is being said and having expectations that as a club who has a budget and resources well beyond Malmo should be winning a 2 legged tie against them.

Celtic don't have the right to win the SPL but do you expect us to win it? If your answer is no your lying to try and keep whatever your argument is going.

As I said we haven't spent what budget we had wisely enough, we also haven't invested enough in recent years to be able to realistically compete if and when we do get to the Champions League, our last outing showed that with pretty depressing results.

You are more than capable of being able to criticise the board and management team whilst supporting the team and giving the management time to do whatever they are trying to do. It doesn't have to be blind support or complete hostility.
There's nothing particularly contentious here--it's all pretty basic common sense, so I can't quite see how anyone would bother making the effort required to contrive a contrary argument.

Things have gone far beyond arguing over these basic facts. The thing we need to be talking/thinking about is what, if anything, can be done to avoid repeating the same mistakes indefinitely. And if anything can be done, how long should we expect to wait before the happens. And here's one that doesn't bear thinking about: what are we expected to do in the meantime?


This 'argument' boils down to those who think the board are doing a bad job (which now appears to be the majority view) and those who think the board are doing as well as can be expected. Whoever is right is actually irrelevant - the only thing which counts is how the business's customers/supporters feel they are being treated and whether the product represents value for money. Peter Lawwell appears to have an aloof, almost uncaring attitude towards fellow Celtic supporters and their wishes. He knows what's best for us and that's the end of it. Meanwhile, people are voting with their feet. Lawwell and the board must take on board the wishes of the people who keep the club afloat. That's not to say he should abandon good business practice but he has to find a way to appease the people who ultimately pay his wages. Some of that Murphio is crap.

I believe we have close on 50K season book holders this season.

Some of us realise our limitasions and are still delighted to be Celtic supporters.
Edited by mallorcabhoy, 4 Sep 2015, 08:52 PM.
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Wee Ed KTF
Considering retirement
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"50,000 season book holders"

:lol:

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QualityStreet1970
First-team starter
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mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 08:50 PM


Some of us realise our limitasions and are still delighted to be Celtic supporters.
I'm delighted to be a Celtic supporter, but I recognise the limitations of Lawwell and the board, and I'm disgusted about the amount of damage that they have done to this club. And will continue to do, unless there are some drastic (and, frankly, unlikely) changes made before the situation goes beyond critical.
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mallorcabhoy
Getting on a bit
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QualityStreet1970
4 Sep 2015, 09:18 PM
mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 08:50 PM


Some of us realise our limitasions and are still delighted to be Celtic supporters.
I'm delighted to be a Celtic supporter, but I recognise the limitations of Lawwell and the board, and I'm disgusted about the amount of damage that they have done to this club. And will continue to do, unless there are some drastic (and, frankly, unlikely) changes made before the situation goes beyond critical.
what do you suggest?
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Winds of Change CSC
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Ess
4 Sep 2015, 08:19 PM
We had a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve the squad with no real serious domestic opposition.
I would say we are in worse shape than we were 4 years ago.
100%

However, we - sorry, the board, took the option that as we had no real competition there was only a need for minimum investment year on year. To plug any gap in finances we simply sell off anything of value player wise - again safe in the knowledge that we should comfortably win the league.

Qualification for the CL is now viewed like a punter buying a lottery ticket, if we get in great, in not, ach well we should get another shot at trying next year. no matter what though Pedro trousers his bonus.

Lawwell still believes he can magic up a "Wanyama" every season, instead we have criminally wasted our meagre resources on a talent-less procession of duds. So for every "Wanyama" we now sign 4 or 5 leech like Boerrigters. Our obsession with the "punt" seems to take precedence over all else when it comes to signings. our need for a left back and a target man have been obvious for a few years but still why bother with that when we can try our luck with yet another project.

When the cheating huns imploded this mob clearly decided on taking another path, different to what the majority of fans wanted. I do not see it changing anytime soon.
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paulfg42
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 09:26 PM
QualityStreet1970
4 Sep 2015, 09:18 PM
mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 08:50 PM


Some of us realise our limitasions and are still delighted to be Celtic supporters.
I'm delighted to be a Celtic supporter, but I recognise the limitations of Lawwell and the board, and I'm disgusted about the amount of damage that they have done to this club. And will continue to do, unless there are some drastic (and, frankly, unlikely) changes made before the situation goes beyond critical.
what do you suggest?
I won't be renewing next season, unless wondrous things happen in the January transfer period.
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QualityStreet1970
First-team starter
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mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 09:26 PM
QualityStreet1970
4 Sep 2015, 09:18 PM
mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 08:50 PM


Some of us realise our limitasions and are still delighted to be Celtic supporters.
I'm delighted to be a Celtic supporter, but I recognise the limitations of Lawwell and the board, and I'm disgusted about the amount of damage that they have done to this club. And will continue to do, unless there are some drastic (and, frankly, unlikely) changes made before the situation goes beyond critical.
what do you suggest?
Persuading a recognised professional to rebuild the club's infrastructure, with only PL's meagre salary by way of remuneration.
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cfc88cfc
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Lawwell has took a risk every year not making significant signings until our champions league fate is decided, was the same under Lennon. If we had spent a few million on a couple of decent players we would have had a better chance of qualifying each year and would of made a fortune in champions league revenue. But no Lawwell would rather take a gamble and try get us in to the group stages spending as little as possible. Putting the whole transfer dealings to the side, Lawwell is still a complete tit in dealing with other aspects of the club. From not paying staff the living wage to zero hour contracts to not having a charity as our sponsor. Lawwell would probably have voted to allow Sevco in to the SPL if it wasn't from the pressure the fans put on him. The club even had plans in place to change season ticket prices only if the huns got promoted last season ffs. I'm sure I even read somewhere that we didn't even have a club doctor with us during that friendly with Real Madrid when McGeough got injured due to cut backs, astonishing. Something really must be done to bring about change or we're going to be seeing the same thing continue. Getting some sort of fan ownership/representation on the board is definitely the way forward. I could ramble on all night about my hatred for Lawwell.
Edited by cfc88cfc, 4 Sep 2015, 11:43 PM.
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Quiet Assasin
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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murphio
4 Sep 2015, 08:42 PM
Just to expand on my point further - essentially the customer is always right; here is what Fergus McCann had to say when Jock Brown left the club.
Quote:
 
"I am personally very sorry that Jock has had to leave. Many of his special abilities and his enormous effort and commitment to the club will be missed.
"It was clear when Jock joined Celtic in June 1997 that he was an outstanding candidate for the new post of football general manager.

"He brought valuable abilities to a complex and difficult job. His contribution was significant and appreciated especially during our championship season.

"Unfortunately in recent times it became clear to the board that despite Jock's best efforts progress in some important matters and issues had become compromised.

"This may have had an adverse affect of the current football atmosphere and the backing of our supporters. I have discussed these matters with Jock and he accepts this. Consequently he tendered his resignation.

"Jock appreciates that there is a feeling within the massive Celtic support that a significant change is desired. He acknowledges that under the circumstances he requires to be the major part of this change."

Fegus McCann knew and understood that regardless of the rights and wrongs of Jock Brown's departure - the Celtic fans wanted him out and that was it.
Now you'd be told to smile and take it cos you just don't understand what Jock does.

He'd definitely get a bonus for 'successful player trading' :suspect:
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katlegend
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paulfg42
4 Sep 2015, 11:27 PM
mallorcabhoy
4 Sep 2015, 09:26 PM
QualityStreet1970
4 Sep 2015, 09:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
what do you suggest?
I won't be renewing next season, unless wondrous things happen in the January transfer period.
You won't be renewing then. I decided that if Neil Lennon got the job I wouldn't renew. I loved Lennon as a player but realised that his appointment would be a clear statement from the club of zero ambition. It showed the line we were going to go down & when he left due to the club's lack of ambition we brought in an even cheaper option.
After 2 successive years in the CL,the last 3 summer windows have been an absolute disgrace & an insult to the Celtic support. It really should be no surprise how bad a side we have,given our transfer policy. Where else would you expect to be a few years down this line?
Whilst we have no divine right to be in the CL,the number of times that we have failed to get there, given the standard of opposition we have been drawn against in recent years, is clear evidence of how awful a job the board have done. I include the 3 titles we allowed the huns to win whilst on their deathbeds as 2 of those came with automatic qualification.
Some people say that the players let us down against Malmo. Most of our squad are just not good players & shouldn't really be here. Going out to a mediocre Malmo was very dissapointing but no great surprise. Deila's Celtic have yet to come out on top against decent opposition & I wouldn't expect it any time soon.
However the accounts are good & building a team was never really on their agenda. That's perfectly clear now.
Edited by katlegend, 5 Sep 2015, 09:27 AM.
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alan_partridge
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What really boils my urine is that if we were prepared to spend (for us) decent money on Jozo Simunovic after failing to qualify for the Champions League then why did we not sign him ahead of our most important games of the season? Lawwell knew Virgil van Dijk wanted to leave and he knew that the sale would raise around £10 million. That money should have been used in advance of the sale to strengthen the team so that we went into the qualifiers with van Dijk and new signings. We might have still lost the Malmo tie but our financial position would have been no worse than it is now.

Blackett, Simunovic and a striker should all have been signed ahead of the Qarabag and Malmo ties. These players were not waiting to see if we qualified for the Champions League before signing as evidenced by the fact that, for the second year in succession, we have failed to qualify and they have still signed. I am sure we would be told that a higher calibre of player would have been targeted had we qualified for the Champions League but I suspect we would have signed the same players.

Lawwell needs to go. He has overseen several poor transfer windows and shows no signs whatsoever of learning from the mistakes of the past. In my opinion our last successful transfer window was the summer of 2011 (four years ago) when we signed Victor Wanyama, Adam Matthews, Kelvin Wilson and Fraser Forster on a permanent deal. We also signed Mohammed Bangura and the less said about that, and our recruitment of strikers since, the better. If Lawwell is here this time next year we will all be posting exactly the same things in a similar thread.
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sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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PL is going to do his pontius pilate

RD is going to feel the heat very shortly

PL will position this as he was well supported and failed nothing more could be done - he talked the talk but couldn't walk the walk

It's actually shameful that this arrogant oaf can manoeuvre people so easily and fail time after time in his role

I actually feel sorry for RD but then again if Lennon couldn't see how he was being stitched up how could a no 2 from a small Norwegian club take him on

We live in hope that maybe one day people on the board will see pl for the ingrate tthat he is
Edited by sevilliano, 5 Sep 2015, 09:36 PM.
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