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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,837 Views)
lubolubo
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henrikisgod
3 Sep 2015, 09:35 AM
Jinkyfan67
3 Sep 2015, 09:16 AM
Chronic town
3 Sep 2015, 09:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I'll accept speculative and "bad player recruitment" .. Yes definitely but
how can we be accused of "underinvestment" when we spend pretty much all we get ??
Just baffling that clearly intelligent people refuse to accept that!!
I wouldn't say it's underinvestment that annoys me, it's the strategy itself

Spend a few hundred thousand each on 3 or 4 players in the hope that you can sell them on for a profit rather than spend a reasonable amount to get a proven player to strengthen the squad and KEEP him

I'm not advocating spending outwith our means, just ensuring a decent level of football, after all we pay to be entertained and if we're not it will have an affect on crowds and revenue
It's a vicious circle
You can't keep them though, that's the point. The EPL is effing mental. We could pay £30,000 a week for individual players, but you have bang average players at mid level EPL clubs getting £50,000 per week.

Norwich, who are a minor spender in EPL terms, in 2014 had a wage bill of £54m. Our entire operational spend that year was £59.89m on an income of £64.74m, of which £37.77m was spent on wages (58.3% of turnover). The lowest amount spent on wage in 2014 in the EPL was £43m by Hull City. The lowest turnover was Cardiff with £83m. And that's before the massive increases in TV money this year.

If the EPL want any player from Scotland, they'll basically get him. You can't compete with them for quality players, you have to get young players who aren't on their radar yet and hope you get a couple of years out of them before EPL turns it's beady eye on them and turns their head.

Or you get players who have failed in that league for one reason or another. It's not as simply as rocking up and offering £6 million for a player, even if we could afford the wages commensurate with the transfer valuation a player worth that amount probably has better options.
Edited by lubolubo, 3 Sep 2015, 10:39 AM.
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Dannybhoy95
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lubolubo
3 Sep 2015, 10:21 AM
We can spend £5 million on a player, but we're not going to be selling him for much more than a Victor or Van Dijk.
There was a time not too long ago, where folk thought Alan Hutton's £9 million price tag was the glass ceiling. 4 Celtic players have broke through that ceiling since. Each player going for more than the last. Give it time. If we continue with our good track record of developing players, folk will realise they're buying quality from us and we can add a wee bit extra.

This takes a certain amount of investment, and buying promising players, right enough. :lol:
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markybhoy
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Part of the issue is we aren't producing our own talent. If we had 2 or 3 players bursting down the door of the first team then our ability to spend what we have on 1 player is far greater, instead we're having to spread the budget much more thinly. That doesn't excuse the seeming randomness of our scouting though. How we can spend the multi-millions (must be into double figures by now?) trying to find decent striker is incredible and huge changes in the scouting department need to be made. Finding 4 good prospects from what? 20 signings over the last 4 or 5 years is unacceptable for a club with our financial constraints.

Lawwell needs to go. No-one spends as long as he has in the same place without developing bad habits and a sense of entitlement. I'd echo what Remy and Harry Brady said, an accountant should NEVER be number 1. We need serious change to both our own youth academies as well as our scouting. Who's going to implement those changes?
Edited by markybhoy, 3 Sep 2015, 10:45 AM.
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Deebhoy
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The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
Edited by Deebhoy, 3 Sep 2015, 11:23 AM.
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Farkakt AlteKaker
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First and foremost we are a football club. The board seems to have forgotten this and seem more concerned with the balance sheet. It doesn't take Helen Keller to see that entertainment on the park will bring in the dosh rather than relying on the buy low sell high startagy which is scattergun at best.
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henrikisgod
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Farkakt AlteKaker
3 Sep 2015, 11:28 AM
First and foremost we are a football club. The board seems to have forgotten this and seem more concerned with the balance sheet. It doesn't take Helen Keller to see that entertainment on the park will bring in the dosh rather than relying on the buy low sell high startagy which is scattergun at best.
:lol: :lol:
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sevilliano
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Deebhoy
3 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
Excellent post :thumbsup:

in the areas you identify put simply it is not under-investment (as discussed on previous pages) it is plain and simple mismanagement on the part of PL
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Sjb141
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markybhoy
3 Sep 2015, 10:44 AM
Part of the issue is we aren't producing our own talent. If we had 2 or 3 players bursting down the door of the first team then our ability to spend what we have on 1 player is far greater, instead we're having to spread the budget much more thinly. That doesn't excuse the seeming randomness of our scouting though. How we can spend the multi-millions (must be into double figures by now?) trying to find decent striker is incredible and huge changes in the scouting department need to be made. Finding 4 good prospects from what? 20 signings over the last 4 or 5 years is unacceptable for a club with our financial constraints.

Lawwell needs to go. No-one spends as long as he has in the same place without developing bad habits and a sense of entitlement. I'd echo what Remy and Harry Brady said, an accountant should NEVER be number 1. We need serious change to both our own youth academies as well as our scouting. Who's going to implement those changes?
This is 100% correct - our inability to bring a few youth players every year as viable 1st team players has really hurt us.


I also agree with your 3nd part - Lawwell should ultimately be determining how to make the $$$ work, not signing off on the actual players. It seems like the accounting dept and scouting is merged which seems like a pretty weird strategy to me.
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paulfg42
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Has DD actually put in any of his own money, apart from through the purchase of shares?
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bigbadpaul
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sevilliano
3 Sep 2015, 12:18 PM
Deebhoy
3 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
Excellent post :thumbsup:

in the areas you identify put simply it is not under-investment (as discussed on previous pages) it is plain and simple mismanagement on the part of PL
agree with all of this, the balance the books at all costs has been the mantra for 10 years now and has cost us at least one title(failure to pay for Stephen Fletcher), and now CL qualification at least twice
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CJThunderbird
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Won't somebody pleeeease think of the co-efficient!?.
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Deebhoy
3 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
Oh please. "He's not a football man. We need someone who knows football" That's the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from someone like Derek Ferguson on Radio Scotland; it doesn't mean anything. It's on a par with "We should sack them all and play the U19s. At least they'd play for the jersey!" in terms of rational debate.
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jmhgg
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Oh dear. I have just had the annual survey. Why don't I arrive earlier/stay later and buy more Celtic crisps.
The timing of this is not great!
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Quiet Assasin
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jmhgg
3 Sep 2015, 01:24 PM
Oh dear. I have just had the annual survey. Why don't I arrive earlier/stay later and buy more Celtic crisps.
The timing of this is not great!
Aye.

I told them the guys on the door at the Kerrydale Bar are arseholes :arrr:
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jmhgg
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jmhgg
3 Sep 2015, 01:24 PM
Oh dear. I have just had the annual survey. Why don't I arrive earlier/stay later and buy more Celtic crisps.
The timing of this is not great!
Actually, maybe they have targeted me for leaving early to avoid the rush!
Or is this a KDS undercover ploy!
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Deebhoy
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CJThunderbird
3 Sep 2015, 01:23 PM
Oh please. "He's not a football man. We need someone who knows football" That's the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from someone like Derek Ferguson on Radio Scotland; it doesn't mean anything. It's on a par with "We should sack them all and play the U19s. At least they'd play for the jersey!" in terms of rational debate.
Yes it does and I back it up with what I mean. As for your comment about Derek Ferguson - two fingered salute to you and as for your other wee comment about the U19's - where did I say that, its a ridiculous analogy and how is it in any way linked to my quite long post.
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kingbhoyd
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sevilliano
3 Sep 2015, 12:18 PM
Deebhoy
3 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
Excellent post :thumbsup:

in the areas you identify put simply it is not under-investment (as discussed on previous pages) it is plain and simple mismanagement on the part of PL
It's not plain and simple at all, you completely misunderstand his role, the role of the other directors on the board and simple corporate governance.

Just because he's the public face of celtic doesn't make him solely responsible for strategy. If you want to be angry you should be angry with everyone on the board, and with Brian quinn and other past directors
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CeltFromTheHills
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Deebhoy
3 Sep 2015, 11:22 AM
The Board are good at getting a lot of things right. Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc. However the biggest issue is how the club is run at a football level and this is where they fail dismally. I absolutely believe the most important person running the football sdie of things is the manager. However we don't have a manager - we have a coach who appears to have close to zero input into signings. Peter Lawwell is a football supporter but he has never been a footballer. He and other cronies on the Board believe they know what it is like to be a football manager. They believe they know more about football than our coach. This is fundamentally the problem with our football club. The people making the decisions may know how to run a football club as a business but they are not football experts. Celtic needs a manager that knows players, makes decisions on players, has contacts across a number of leagues and is pragmatic in the politics and limitations about Scottish football has to offer.

Unfortunately the people running Celtic see the club as a diminishing return and crucually forget that while fans will always turn up they also want to be entertained. They have sacrificed quality on the field against budgets off ignoring that the less quality there is on the field will result in less people buying season tickets. They have taken a gamble on a manager with close to zero managerial experience and it could be argued cost the club millions in lost revenue with three failed attempts at the Champions League. The focus on bringing in young players, while admirable in one sense, has now gone too much in one direction with little experience now running throughout the squad. I have little doubt their plan is to bring all these young players in now, have them blooded this season and we will be in a better position when the huns are back in the SPFL next year when season ticket sales will undoubtedly increase due to games against them.

All of the above represents a major gamble especially when there is already a growing pot of disillusionment and resentment towards those in charge by failing to spend in key areas over the summer. Failure on any level will see fan resentment against the Board significantly increase. While I don't want Celtic to fail on anything a major rethink about the football side of the club is required and that can only come about by the removal of a number of people on the Board in key positions. The dissconnect between the Board and fan has never been bigger and as we know football without fans is nothing.
I'm guessing you weren't around in the 90's? :ffs:

Your first paragraph especially is littered with opinion posing as fact. Laughable in parts.
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weejimmy
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murphio
2 Sep 2015, 03:39 PM
[; we do. I'm saying that we have better players than Malmo in almost every position.
I do not know how you can arrive at that Murph. Over the two games they outplayed us. We played for 15 minutes in the first game
and then they adjusted and outsmarted us. Do you watch Malmo on a regular basis.?
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ssmith81
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weejimmy
3 Sep 2015, 05:26 PM
murphio
2 Sep 2015, 03:39 PM
[; we do. I'm saying that we have better players than Malmo in almost every position.
I do not know how you can arrive at that Murph. Over the two games they outplayed us. We played for 15 minutes in the first game
and then they adjusted and outsmarted us. Do you watch Malmo on a regular basis.?
It's hilarious the amount of Celtic fans trotting out this line. Funny that the Malmo fan Olo who was posting on here said he wouldn't take any of our players over theirs other than Virgil. Conclusion being, football football fans are blinded fools when it comes to their own club. The truth being Malmo have some better players than Celtic and vice-versa.
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Deebhoy
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CeltFromTheHills
3 Sep 2015, 03:59 PM
I'm guessing you weren't around in the 90's? :ffs:

Your first paragraph especially is littered with opinion posing as fact. Laughable in parts.
Firstly - was referring to the Current Board and since Lawwell was appointed - I accept I should have been clearer :thumbsup:

What part of
Quote:
 
Financially we are in cracking shape, work done around the stadium is excellent, development of Lennoxtown, buy players and sell for big profits etc.
is not factual. Might be better you actually say which parts are laughable rather than be a smart arse - I can then give an opinion which is a factual representation of my thoughts :thumbsup:
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