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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,847 Views)
markiebhoy7
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No' a snider
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The trouble is we have an amazing history, a CL stadium and a CL support but everything else about us now is strictly small-time. This is the fault of the board, pure and simple - until they're replaced with people of vision (hell, I'd settle for competence right now) we're stuck with watching a pish team play a slightly less pish team in a pish league. Scunnered with the club right now :(
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Otis B Driftwood
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Satisfaction came in a chain reaction
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murphio
2 Sep 2015, 01:23 AM
Otis B Driftwood
2 Sep 2015, 12:47 AM
ompared to Tesco, Celtic is small beer; but in any organisation, the board determines policy, not the CEO.
No they don't - utter rubbish. The CEO is answerable to the board but that person is paid to come up with a strategy to make the business profitable first and foremost and sustainable in the long term. Lawwell may be achieving the former but not the latter. This nonsense that poor Peter is being paid £1m a year to simply dot the i's and cross the t's on a strategy for which he has no say is incredibly naive. Where does it come from? It is utter, utter bollocks. Celtic engaged on a u-turn in policy around 2005 and while other board members may have had an input into strategy - Lawwell has since taken on the responsibility with gusto. Since then we have arguably lost countless millions due to this individual.
You seem to fail to understand how governance works - either that, or your are indulging in reductio ad absurdem in attempt to diminish what I said: yes, Lawwell will have an input, but the bottom line is that the board will set spending priorities. There is also the small matter of the £100 reduction in season book prices: that isn't going to affect income streams at all. Tell you what, let's spunk millions on a load of players with extravagant wage demands in the hope that we can qualify for the CL every season... that worked well the last time it was tried by a Scottish club... didnt it?
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Mubo Loravcik
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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Otis B Driftwood
2 Sep 2015, 01:45 AM
murphio
2 Sep 2015, 01:23 AM
Otis B Driftwood
2 Sep 2015, 12:47 AM
ompared to Tesco, Celtic is small beer; but in any organisation, the board determines policy, not the CEO.
No they don't - utter rubbish. The CEO is answerable to the board but that person is paid to come up with a strategy to make the business profitable first and foremost and sustainable in the long term. Lawwell may be achieving the former but not the latter. This nonsense that poor Peter is being paid £1m a year to simply dot the i's and cross the t's on a strategy for which he has no say is incredibly naive. Where does it come from? It is utter, utter bollocks. Celtic engaged on a u-turn in policy around 2005 and while other board members may have had an input into strategy - Lawwell has since taken on the responsibility with gusto. Since then we have arguably lost countless millions due to this individual.
You seem to fail to understand how governance works - either that, or your are indulging in reductio ad absurdem in attempt to diminish what I said: yes, Lawwell will have an input, but the bottom line is that the board will set spending priorities. There is also the small matter of the £100 reduction in season book prices: that isn't going to affect income streams at all. Tell you what, let's spunk millions on a load of players with extravagant wage demands in the hope that we can qualify for the CL every season... that worked well the last time it was tried by a Scottish club... didnt it?
Ah the 'if you spend money you'll die like the Rangers' defence.

Always worth a laugh.
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Auldyin
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Considering retirement
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Mubo Loravcik
2 Sep 2015, 02:10 AM
Otis B Driftwood
2 Sep 2015, 01:45 AM
murphio
2 Sep 2015, 01:23 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You seem to fail to understand how governance works - either that, or your are indulging in reductio ad absurdem in attempt to diminish what I said: yes, Lawwell will have an input, but the bottom line is that the board will set spending priorities. There is also the small matter of the £100 reduction in season book prices: that isn't going to affect income streams at all. Tell you what, let's spunk millions on a load of players with extravagant wage demands in the hope that we can qualify for the CL every season... that worked well the last time it was tried by a Scottish club... didnt it?
Ah the 'if you spend money you'll die like the Rangers' defence.

Always worth a laugh.
Maybe but given that qualification can stand or fall in a single cup tie game where anything can happen as it did to us in the 94th minute at CP then to ignore the extent of the risk and consequences of failure would be foolish.
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QualityStreet1970
First-team starter
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murphio
2 Sep 2015, 12:08 AM
In the not too distant past Dermot Desmond funded Martin O'Neill in buying Sutton, Thompson, Valgaeran, Lennon, Hartson, Balde etc. We were OK with massive wage deals for Craig Bellamy and Juninho who, at the time, were among the highest earners in Britain. The end of O'Neill saw the end of this policy. Smart guy Lawwell thought he had a different, more profitable way and installed himself as overseer.
.To be fair, very few--if any--of MON's high-earners had any re-sale value. That period was a one-off; it was unsustainable, pure and simple.

There's a more rational, sustainable way of doing things, and judging by the signing suggestions on here tonight, it should be fairly straightforward for Celtic to implement. Instead we're stumbling from pillar to post, finding the occasional jewel among all the duds that PL/JP sign--and because of all the dead wood we're stuck with, those decent players have to be sold sooner rather than later.

Where does the buck stop? And when does this bucking nonsense stop, because it's slowly but surely killing this club.
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HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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murphio
2 Sep 2015, 12:08 AM
Otis B Driftwood
1 Sep 2015, 11:45 PM
People criticising Lawwell for the club's transfer strategy should remember that the board determines policy, not him (although he will advise of market conditions, etc.)... he is an employee, albeit one who is very well rewarded.
Could people please, please, please stop repeating this complete and utter pish that all Lawwell is doing for his £1m a year is following instruction. FFS the tea lady could do that. Where do you get this nonsense? Peter Lawwell is the CEO of the business and driver of this 'strategy'. That is what he is employed to do - run the business. Do you think Tesco shareholders sit at every board meeting and tell the CEO how they want their business run? In the not too distant past Dermot Desmond funded Martin O'Neill in buying Sutton, Thompson, Valgaeran, Lennon, Hartson, Balde etc. We were OK with massive wage deals for Craig Bellamy and Juninho who, at the time, were among the highest earners in Britain. The end of O'Neill saw the end of this policy. Smart guy Lawwell thought he had a different, more profitable way and installed himself as overseer. I honestly can't listen to any more of this nonsense - that joker is at the heart of this period of cost cutting. GTF Lawwell.
The end of this policy saw the end of O'Neil.
There was no chance whatsoever that DD intended the club to run at a loss indefinitely. He was prepared to underwrite an unsustainable budget for a few years when there appeared to be a chance that Celtic might be included in a new Sky deal for the English league and he wanted Celtic to be ready to hit the ground running if the chance arose. It didn't and he rightly made it a priority to balance the books in the light of the confirmed new reality.
Lawwell was appointed to administer the medicine and that is what he has done. If and when Lawwell departs, Desmond will appoint someone else and instruct him on what he expects.
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QualityStreet1970
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Mubo Loravcik
2 Sep 2015, 02:10 AM
Ah the 'if you spend money you'll die like the Rangers' defence.

Always worth a laugh.
Can't believe that anyone would still try that pysh on. They're like those defiant Japanese soldiers who were stuck on desert islands after VJ Day. No excuse for such ignorance. To be fair, though, maybe they're actually just winding us up and having a bloody good laugh about it.

:thumbsup:
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Celticbhoy_07
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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The fans should be chasing Lawwell, Park etc out the club.

Sadly we'll just sit here take it and renew our season tickets next June to do it all over again. :Bye:
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QualityStreet1970
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HenryClarson
2 Sep 2015, 02:27 AM
He was prepared to underwrite an unsustainable budget for a few years when there appeared to be a chance that Celtic might be included in a new Sky deal for the English league and he wanted Celtic to be ready to hit the ground running if the chance arose.
Ah, DD's cunning plan!

He had no idea what he was doing, and had to cut it out sharpish.

The guy's not a football man at all. He is, however, a very successful businessman--you really think he'd spend untold millions of money with no guarantee that it would be recoupable? That he'd make such an outrageous gamble just to make sure we "hit the ground running" if the Sky/Premiership fairy tale came true? "Hit the ground running"?! As opposed to waiting til we were going to be involved, then starting to build the club up over the course of the next 2-3 years or more. Even Desmond would have known we'd never win the Premiership at the first attempt, even with Henrik, Sutton etc. By the same token we wouldn't have been automatic relegation fodder. So what does "hit the ground running" mean, and how much would it be worth?

Plus, we'd have hit the ground running with a lot of veteran players--and had to do a major rebuild ing job anyway. Don't make no sense myfrien'.
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QualityStreet1970
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Funny thing is, it's Chucky Verde who's been arrested for financial malfeasance today. The money involved there is chickenfeed compared to the amount of cash PL has squandered and failed to bring in over these past few years. Even if you just start from the point when he refused to pay Hibs a fair price for S. Fletcher, and give the manager the reliable goalscorer he desperately needed that season.

And once again, if some unforeseen financial catastrophe (?!) had somehow befallen us when we had Fletcher on our books... we could always have sold him on to a Premiership side--almost certainly at a good profit. Phew. Disaster averted! That was a close one.

But here we are, still basing our transfer policy on fear of the unknown. Then again--if that fear is actually based on Lawwell and Park's combined track record in the transfer market, that would be somewhat understandable. What isn't understandable on any level is the fact that the board have let these two keep trying and failing so abjectly for so long now.
Edited by QualityStreet1970, 2 Sep 2015, 02:56 AM.
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HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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QualityStreet1970
2 Sep 2015, 02:39 AM
HenryClarson
2 Sep 2015, 02:27 AM
He was prepared to underwrite an unsustainable budget for a few years when there appeared to be a chance that Celtic might be included in a new Sky deal for the English league and he wanted Celtic to be ready to hit the ground running if the chance arose.
Ah, DD's cunning plan!

He had no idea what he was doing, and had to cut it out sharpish.

The guy's not a football man at all. He is, however, a very successful businessman--you really think he'd spend untold millions of money with no guarantee that it would be recoupable? That he'd make such an outrageous gamble just to make sure we "hit the ground running" if the Sky/Premiership fairy tale came true? "Hit the ground running"?! As opposed to waiting til we were going to be involved, then starting to build the club up over the course of the next 2-3 years or more. Even Desmond would have known we'd never win the Premiership at the first attempt, even with Henrik, Sutton etc. By the same token we wouldn't have been automatic relegation fodder. So what does "hit the ground running" mean, and how much would it be worth?

Plus, we'd have hit the ground running with a lot of veteran players--and had to do a major rebuild ing job anyway. Don't make no sense myfrien'.
:cuckoo:
Did Desmond become a billionaire by being frightened to take a punt on future business opportunities? No.
Does he win every time he risks a gamble? No.
Does he know when to fold his hand and cut his losses? Yes.

He took a calculated risk after assessing the possible gains and losses. It didn't come off so he called it quits and moved on to Plan B. That's what successful businessmen do. That's why they're successful.

"Hitting the ground running" is just as simple to understand. It involved presenting Celtic as a prestigious club, a major attraction to broadcasters, playing in a magnificent stadium, competitive at the highest European level, drawing massive crowds, paying huge wages to those considered worthy to represent Celtic and providing players with a platform as good as any in the world to perform on. In other words, the real deal, already firing on all cylinders, already a match for any club in Europe and all ready to step straight into a bigger league.

It was worth a try. We all enjoyed it while it lasted but it didn't work out in the end. Such is life. You win some, you lose some. Desmond wins a hell of a lot more than he loses and he can afford to take the hit when it doesn't come off.
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HenryClarson
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Bolstering the duty of good faith
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QualityStreet1970
2 Sep 2015, 02:52 AM
Funny thing is, it's Chucky Verde who's been arrested for financial malfeasance today. The money involved there is chickenfeed compared to the amount of cash PL has squandered and failed to bring in over these past few years. Even if you just start from the point when he refused to pay Hibs a fair price for S. Fletcher, and give the manager the reliable goalscorer he desperately needed that season.

And once again, if some unforeseen financial catastrophe (?!) had somehow befallen us when we had Fletcher on our books... we could always have sold him on to a Premiership side--almost certainly at a good profit. Phew. Disaster averted! That was a close one.

But here we are, still basing our transfer policy on fear of the unknown. Then again--if that fear is actually based on Lawwell and Park's combined track record in the transfer market, that would be somewhat understandable. What isn't understandable on any level is the fact that the board have let these two keep trying and failing so abjectly for so long now.
Yes, it's funny that Green and Whyte are behind bars tonight. That's because they're accused of fraud, a criminal offence.
As far as I'm aware, not buying a Hibs striker isn't a criminal offence. :thumbsup:
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QualityStreet1970
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HenryClarson
2 Sep 2015, 03:31 AM

"Hitting the ground running" is just as simple to understand. It involved presenting Celtic as a prestigious club, a major attraction to broadcasters, playing in a magnificent stadium, competitive at the highest European level, drawing massive crowds, paying huge wages to those considered worthy to represent Celtic and providing players with a platform as good as any in the world to perform on. In other words, the real deal, already firing on all cylinders, already a match for any club in Europe and all ready to step straight into a bigger league.
Why on earth would anybody expect us to pay massive wages if we were restricted to revenue from Scotland. Anybody in football would know that the massive wages would start the minute we got on board Murdoch's bandwagon. As far as the rest of it goes... Desmond throwing away untold millions on veteran players so Celtic--already a highly respected entity and a major worldwide attraction--would look a bit better in the run-up to a theoretical big Premiership payday. If all those millions had been spent to avoid some kind of possible humiliation, or to further boost Celtic's future revenue, there might have been some sense to the spending spree. But we were positioned just fine--and after we (theoretically!) joined the Premiership, we'd have used our vastly increased revenue to become competitive in the league and across Europe within a matter of years. And by spending all that money with no chance of recouping it, DD ended up setting the club back very significantly. If MON had been able to bring in three or four guys of Petrov's age with anywhere near his ability, it would have been a very different story.

To be fair, I can see an egomaniac like SDM wanting to show off to the big boys when he didn't even have to--but DD? I don't think so.
Edited by QualityStreet1970, 2 Sep 2015, 04:22 AM.
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QualityStreet1970
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HenryClarson
2 Sep 2015, 03:39 AM
Yes, it's funny that Green and Whyte are behind bars tonight. That's because they're accused of fraud, a criminal offence.
As far as I'm aware, not buying a Hibs striker isn't a criminal offence. :thumbsup:
I hope that's an attempt to be cute. Because if you took that earlier post literally I'd be seriously worried about you. Literally.
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Still Game
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First name on the team-sheet
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Time's up.
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el gato
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Getting on a bit
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mikeybhoy67
1 Sep 2015, 11:29 PM
When we are putting out statements like this, under the guise of our manager, we really are in more trouble than I first thought.

Quote:
 
Celtic Manager Ronny Deila added: “We are so pleased that Jozo is joining us at Celtic and I am sure he will be a great addition to our squad.
"He is a very talented young player and good on the ball, but he will also give us strength and stability in defence. I am sure he will be a success for us.
“I believe what we have done in the summer has given us a squad with real depth for the season ahead.
“We already had a strong squad going into the summer period and we have now signed eight quality players in this transfer window.
“Again we will once again look to strengthen in the January transfer window.
"We have the resources available to do this and this is something we always aim to do, ensuring that we are as well equipped as possible to bring our supporters as much success as we possibly can.”
Does Anyone else in our support still believe this rubbish.there cant be surely
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ciaranbelfast
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el gato
2 Sep 2015, 05:45 AM
mikeybhoy67
1 Sep 2015, 11:29 PM
When we are putting out statements like this, under the guise of our manager, we really are in more trouble than I first thought.

Quote:
 
Celtic Manager Ronny Deila added: “We are so pleased that Jozo is joining us at Celtic and I am sure he will be a great addition to our squad.
"He is a very talented young player and good on the ball, but he will also give us strength and stability in defence. I am sure he will be a success for us.
“I believe what we have done in the summer has given us a squad with real depth for the season ahead.
“We already had a strong squad going into the summer period and we have now signed eight quality players in this transfer window.
“Again we will once again look to strengthen in the January transfer window.
"We have the resources available to do this and this is something we always aim to do, ensuring that we are as well equipped as possible to bring our supporters as much success as we possibly can.”
Does Anyone else in our support still believe this rubbish.there cant be surely
Did they really put that out in a press release? Flabbergasted to say the least. These resources we seem to have must be accruing a serious amount of interest
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Antoninho
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Turd Ferguson
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Time for a shake up. And it's long overdue.
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JonnyB67
Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Scunnered. The board are ultimately responsible for our failure in Europe.

Enough is enough. Change is needed.
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JonnyB67
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Out of interest do people actually think there will be change and what can be done?

Season tickets have been bought. Not buy EL tickets? Will that actually make a difference. My fear is that the international week has came at a good time for the board. Beat Aberdeen in a couple of weeks and people might start to let this go.
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