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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,857 Views)
sevilliano
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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fatboab
28 Aug 2015, 01:43 PM
quiet day Sevilliano? ^^^

most of what you say is correct, but the retired scout is too much of a hun to be trusted. :suspect:
Everyone has his price

Scott Allan CSC
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harryhoodshatrick
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adl
28 Aug 2015, 08:58 AM
murphio
27 Aug 2015, 03:59 PM
Some of this is a bit over the top. Boycotts... really? We need a deviation in policy and we need to stop rewarding failure. But fundamentally those are in charge are attempting to look after the best interests in the club. The fact of the matter is Malmo assembled their team for the same money we spent on Ciftci. Their players earn a fraction of what ours do. A lack of investment is not why we are out of the Champions League again. How many times over do we need to outspend the likes of Legia, Maribor and Malmo before we get it right on the park? Too many mistakes have been made in the football operation from the hiring (and attempted hiring) of players and managers. It has been extremely costly on and off the park. We absolutely need a complete review of the football side of things from a youth policy which isn't producing, a scouting operation which is finding too many duds and a management team which has failed spectacularly to eliminate a team on a fraction of their budget. We need change, for sure, not revolution.
Malmo and Maribor are not competing with English clubs for players, whereas Celtic are.

If a player from the continent (or elsewhere) considers taking up an offer to play for Celtic, he will also be considering opportunities in England and that's why we're forced to pay considerably higher transfer fees and wages than the likes of Malmo and Maribor.

We have, in effect, an English Championship level squad now - one that is no more cut out for Champions League football than Birmingham City or Blackburn Rovers are.

We've been reduced to this level by the changing financial situation in England. Eight years ago, Celtic had roughly the same turnover and wages that Everton had, but, as of next season when the new television deal kicks in, our turnover will be dwarfed by every single club in that league.

Lawwell has got to make the unpopular decisions and gambling every summer in a bid to oust Malmo or whoever (for 20m in additional revenue) when a host of middling wee clubs in England are going to be pocketing 100m+ next season is pointless. There's no point Celtic fans burying their heads in the sand over this - the new English PL television deal is a game changer and the club needs to be prepared for it.
Of course we can't compete with EPL and nobody is asking us to,what some fans are saying is that now we have no debt we could afford to spend a bit more to improve the quality of the team and also give us a better chance of qualifying for the CL. If we had spent the money we got when selling hooper on his replacement we would have ended up spending less than we have done trying to find his replacement.
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QualityStreet1970
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adl
28 Aug 2015, 12:41 PM
QualityStreet1970
28 Aug 2015, 10:03 AM
adl
28 Aug 2015, 08:58 AM
Lawwell has got to make the unpopular decisions and gambling every summer in a bid to oust Malmo or whoever (for 20m in additional revenue) when a host of middling wee clubs in England are going to be pocketing 100m+ next season is pointless. There's no point Celtic fans burying their heads in the sand over this - the new English PL television deal is a game changer and the club needs to be prepared for it.
Utterly ludicrous--that is exactly the kind of thinking will allow Lawwell to stay smug, complacent and over-compensated through many Celtic humiliations in Europe.

So what would we have had to gamble this summer in order to strengthen the side in the positions that everybody was worried about. 2 or 3 players for... £5 million or £6 million total? And here's the key point that Lawwell's nervous Nellies never seem to get. If anything went wrong and we still didn't qualify for the CL, those new players would not suddenly become worthless; spending those transfer fees would not be the same as burning the money in the street!

If we could be confident of bringing in players who are not complete duds, that £5 - £6 million could likely be recouped, either by selling the new guys, or shifting one or two older players. And this is where our proximity to the Premiership actually becomes an advantage! We won't get the same ludicrously inflated prices for players that English clubs get when they're dealing with other English clubs; but as you know, we've been able to turn healthy profits on several decent players in recent years. So it's quite likely that we would to emerge from this "worst-case" scenario with a profit!

The only possible flaw in planning along these lines would be if Lawwell and Park ended up signing duds who could not be shifted. We wouldn't end up like Sevco (despite what the nervous Nellies like to claim), but we would take a financial hit. Having given this matter some thought post-Malmo, I feel pretty certain that Lawwell's inexcusable failure to undertake significant activity in the transfer market is a direct reflection on his confidence in himself and John Park. Better to do nothing than to risk (and in this case, it really is a risk!) the embarrassment of bringing more high-profile failures to CP. What a shameful way to run a multi-million pound business--but who you gonna call? Not Dermot Demond, apparently.

We do not need World Cup-winning visionaries to arrive at Celtic Park in order to get the club operating smoothly, and moving in the right direction again. Just reasonably competent, professional football men; guys who would sort this mess out for a fraction of what the sharp-suited well-known businessman gets paid. Unfortunately it looks like there won't be any vacancies for such people in the foreseeable future; and in the meantime we have to just sit back and wonder how much damage the present incumbents will be able to inflict upon the club before they finally let someone else come in and start the recovery operation. This is a horrendous situation--and what makes it even worse is that no-one on the Celtic board seems to even realize that there are deep-rooted problems at the club.

"Gambling every summer"?! Three little words that sum up the huge lie that keeps inflicting pain on the entire Celtic support, season after season. Welcome back to KDS, Peter.
:lol: :lol:

"Gambling every summer" is exactly what you and many others on KDS want the club to do.

Spending millions on players of dubious quality in the HOPE of winning unpredictable CL play-off matches.

It's not just the transfer fees either, it's wages, sign-on fees, appearance fees etc.

I'm not defending Lawwell or the other directors, i'm just pointing out that when Celtic attempt to sign a player from just about anywhere, English clubs are immediately alerted and this tends to drive up costs.
You're right. Forget all that stuff about being clever in the transfer market, and getting in decent players who will become "assets" that be sold on for a profit at some future date, should circumstances demand it. We might as well not bother trying to look for any players outwith the SPL, because those bad men fae down south are gonna drink our milkshake every single time.

Now I see that this is all part of Lawwell's Cunning Plan. When you see all those European football clubs laughing at our successive failures to reach the CL, you can rest easy knowing that you and Peter will be having the last laugh!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

EDIT: I forgot to address your straw man argument about how all these deluded souls on KDS want to see Celtic "gambling every summer" on "players of dubious quality." Truly insightful stuff there. I'm just a wee bit disappointed that you didn't add on the standard "and end up like Sevco" mantra. But I guess that's implied at this point--because it's so obviously true!

:doh:
Edited by QualityStreet1970, 28 Aug 2015, 02:51 PM.
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OzzyBhoy
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I wonder how much further out of sight we'd be of der hun for when they eventually return to the top flight if we had actually made the group stages of the CL this season and last? We should have no difficulty winning the league the first season they eventually return (next season?) but the board should have been/should be building to make it so it would take years for them to even come close to us.

It's unforgivable that we've failed to make the CL group stages two years in a row due to lack of signings/mismanagement. Imagine it happens again next season?
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aldo
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All the evidence of the last 10 years suggests Champions League booty would primarily be used to 'manage debt' and pay handsome bonuses to our execs. It wouldn't suddenly see Lawwell signing players of the calibre we need.
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adl
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QualityStreet1970
28 Aug 2015, 02:41 PM
adl
28 Aug 2015, 12:41 PM
QualityStreet1970
28 Aug 2015, 10:03 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepdirect reflection on his confidence in himself and John Park. Better to do nothing than to risk (and in this case, it really is a risk!) the embarrassment of bringing more high-profile failures to CP. What a shameful way to run a multi-million pound business--but who you gonna call? Not Dermot Demond, apparently.

We do not need World Cup-winning visionaries to arrive at Celtic Park in order to get the club operating smoothly, and moving in the right direction again. Just reasonably competent, professional football men; guys who would sort this mess out for a fraction of what the sharp-suited well-known businessman gets paid. Unfortunately it looks like there won't be any vacancies for such people in the foreseeable future; and in the meantime we have to just sit back and wonder how much damage the present incumbents will be able to inflict upon the club before they finally let someone else come in and start the recovery operation. This is a horrendous situation--and what makes it even worse is that no-one on the Celtic board seems to even realize that there are deep-rooted problems at the club.

"Gambling every summer"?! Three little words that sum up the huge lie that keeps inflicting pain on the entire Celtic support, season after season. Welcome back to KDS, Peter.
:lol: :lol:

"Gambling every summer" is exactly what you and many others on KDS want the club to do.

Spending millions on players of dubious quality in the HOPE of winning unpredictable CL play-off matches.

It's not just the transfer fees either, it's wages, sign-on fees, appearance fees etc.

I'm not defending Lawwell or the other directors, i'm just pointing out that when Celtic attempt to sign a player from just about anywhere, English clubs are immediately alerted and this tends to drive up costs.

EDIT: I forgot to address your straw man argument about how all these deluded souls on KDS want to see Celtic "gambling every summer" on "players of dubious quality." Truly insightful stuff there. I'm just a wee bit disappointed that you didn't add on the standard "and end up like Sevco" mantra. But I guess that's implied at this point--because it's so obviously true!

:doh:
Well, they were gambling on CL football in 2011 - you can't deny that. :lol: :lol:

Unlike you, I don't view Europe as the be-all and end-all for Celtic and it's certainly not worth racking up debts over.

The CL is now little more than a cosy cartel designed to pump tens of millions into the bulging bank accounts of Europe's 'super clubs' - e.g. they roll out the red carpet for England's 3rd placed also-rans, while we get shunted from Iceland to Azerbaijan.
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QualityStreet1970
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adl
28 Aug 2015, 06:08 PM
QualityStreet1970
28 Aug 2015, 02:41 PM
adl
28 Aug 2015, 12:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepdirect reflection on his confidence in himself and John Park. Better to do nothing than to risk (and in this case, it really is a risk!) the embarrassment of bringing more high-profile failures to CP. What a shameful way to run a multi-million pound business--but who you gonna call? Not Dermot Demond, apparently.

We do not need World Cup-winning visionaries to arrive at Celtic Park in order to get the club operating smoothly, and moving in the right direction again. Just reasonably competent, professional football men; guys who would sort this mess out for a fraction of what the sharp-suited well-known businessman gets paid. Unfortunately it looks like there won't be any vacancies for such people in the foreseeable future; and in the meantime we have to just sit back and wonder how much damage the present incumbents will be able to inflict upon the club before they finally let someone else come in and start the recovery operation. This is a horrendous situation--and what makes it even worse is that no-one on the Celtic board seems to even realize that there are deep-rooted problems at the club.

"Gambling every summer"?! Three little words that sum up the huge lie that keeps inflicting pain on the entire Celtic support, season after season. Welcome back to KDS, Peter.

EDIT: I forgot to address your straw man argument about how all these deluded souls on KDS want to see Celtic "gambling every summer" on "players of dubious quality." Truly insightful stuff there. I'm just a wee bit disappointed that you didn't add on the standard "and end up like Sevco" mantra. But I guess that's implied at this point--because it's so obviously true!

:doh:
Well, they were gambling on CL football in 2011 - you can't deny that. :lol: :lol:

Unlike you, I don't view Europe as the be-all and end-all for Celtic and it's certainly not worth racking up debts over.

The CL is now little more than a cosy cartel designed to pump tens of millions into the bulging bank accounts of Europe's 'super clubs' - e.g. they roll out the red carpet for England's 3rd placed also-rans, while we get shunted from Iceland to Azerbaijan.
"Unlike you, I don't view Europe as the be-all and end-all for Celtic and it's certainly not worth racking up debts over."

Where to start with this nonsense. First, thanks for telling me exactly how I view Europe. A sure sign that you know you're on a losing wicket here.

"Racking up debts"?! Try re-reading the part where I talked about new signings being "assets" on our books. And thanks to our proximity to the Premiership, any decent "asset" can be sold on at a profit if necessary. As I said, the main problem with Lawwell is that he--quite rightly--has no confidence in John Park himself to bring in players who will not turn out to be duds with little or no re-sale value. Unless that long-festering problem is addressed, CL elimination at the hands of modest outfits like Malmo and Maribor will become the rule rather than the exception. You, like the Celtic board, don't seem to mind that prospect. Well, I'm afraid some of us don't like it at all, and see no reason to just accept the thin gruel that our "betters" are serving up to us.

As for "gambling"--the business of football is by definition a gamble. And by risking mass apathy at CP, Lawwell turns out to be a reckless gambler, and not the fiscal conservative he'd like us to think he is. The club is in a dangerous state right now, and you seem to be one of the small minority who can't see it.

(As for your point about the CL being a cosy cartel--so what? Completely irrelevant--a silly wee distraction from the actual topic under discussion. We're not talking about Celtic winning the CL--just participating. Or rather failing to do so because of the embarrassing mismanagement of our resources.)

So far your points have been 100% reactive, and way off the mark. Maybe you have something to say about the CL, and why Celtic shouldn't be concerned about getting kept out of it by clubs run on a fraction of our budget. It might help if you actually state your position instead of just firing off a series of knee-jerk responses that are based on your fear of... something or other.
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Ess
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adl
28 Aug 2015, 06:08 PM
QualityStreet1970
28 Aug 2015, 02:41 PM
adl
28 Aug 2015, 12:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepdirect reflection on his confidence in himself and John Park. Better to do nothing than to risk (and in this case, it really is a risk!) the embarrassment of bringing more high-profile failures to CP. What a shameful way to run a multi-million pound business--but who you gonna call? Not Dermot Demond, apparently.

We do not need World Cup-winning visionaries to arrive at Celtic Park in order to get the club operating smoothly, and moving in the right direction again. Just reasonably competent, professional football men; guys who would sort this mess out for a fraction of what the sharp-suited well-known businessman gets paid. Unfortunately it looks like there won't be any vacancies for such people in the foreseeable future; and in the meantime we have to just sit back and wonder how much damage the present incumbents will be able to inflict upon the club before they finally let someone else come in and start the recovery operation. This is a horrendous situation--and what makes it even worse is that no-one on the Celtic board seems to even realize that there are deep-rooted problems at the club.

"Gambling every summer"?! Three little words that sum up the huge lie that keeps inflicting pain on the entire Celtic support, season after season. Welcome back to KDS, Peter.

EDIT: I forgot to address your straw man argument about how all these deluded souls on KDS want to see Celtic "gambling every summer" on "players of dubious quality." Truly insightful stuff there. I'm just a wee bit disappointed that you didn't add on the standard "and end up like Sevco" mantra. But I guess that's implied at this point--because it's so obviously true!

:doh:
Well, they were gambling on CL football in 2011 - you can't deny that. :lol: :lol:

Unlike you, I don't view Europe as the be-all and end-all for Celtic and it's certainly not worth racking up debts over.

The CL is now little more than a cosy cartel designed to pump tens of millions into the bulging bank accounts of Europe's 'super clubs' - e.g. they roll out the red carpet for England's 3rd placed also-rans, while we get shunted from Iceland to Azerbaijan.
It will also pump tens of millions into our account if we get there.
This would add a significant percentage of our turnover and allow us to at least improve the squad.
Without European football, we make a loss unless we sell players.

Explain again how Europe isn't the be all and end all for Celtic
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sevilliano
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DD was supposedly well hacked off at last years qualification shambles and wasn't slow to point out to pl that Ronny was his pick and his alone

I do not expect this years shambles to have gone down any better especially as dd was in attendance

However wth Eric Riley's departure I can't see both execs changing in same season

Far more likely would be Ronny to get punted if league and Europa do not go well and lawwell to head off at end of season

:pray:
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packrat
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It's a matter of money. We are losing out on a TON each and EVERY year due to failed CL qualification. We need to change what we are doing, push things a bit riskier. It's maddening getting the same kick in the junk year after year. After year. After year. After year.
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QualityStreet1970
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sevilliano
28 Aug 2015, 10:31 PM
DD was supposedly well hacked off at last years qualification shambles and wasn't slow to point out to pl that Ronny was his pick and his alone

I do not expect this years shambles to have gone down any better especially as dd was in attendance

However wth Eric Riley's departure I can't see both execs changing in same season

Far more likely would be Ronny to get punted if league and Europa do not go well and lawwell to head off at end of season

:pray:
So there may be some light at the end of the tunnel after all. That's the most encouraging thing I've heard all week. Or should I say, the only sign that the farcical mis-management of Celtic's might not go on for as long as some of us feared.
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Hairytoes
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sevilliano
28 Aug 2015, 10:31 PM
DD was supposedly well hacked off at last years qualification shambles and wasn't slow to point out to pl that Ronny was his pick and his alone

I do not expect this years shambles to have gone down any better especially as dd was in attendance

However wth Eric Riley's departure I can't see both execs changing in same season

Far more likely would be Ronny to get punted if league and Europa do not go well and lawwell to head off at end of season

:pray:
How do we know anything that DD thinks? That he isn't happy to let us think we know?

"DD was hacked off we didn't qualify, he's surely going to put his full weight behind making sure we do next time".

Watch this space.....
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stibhan
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This club badly needs a change in personnel as soon as possible.
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Mubo Loravcik
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stibhan
29 Aug 2015, 12:18 AM
This club badly needs a change in personnel as soon as possible.
It badly needs a change of personnel but more importantly it desperately needs a change of transfer policy.
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jamiebhoy76
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Someone made an excellent point earlier about there being no heroes for the younger generation to be inspired by. I agree.
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HenryClarson
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Dannybhoy95
28 Aug 2015, 09:23 AM
adl
28 Aug 2015, 08:58 AM
Malmo and Maribor are not competing with English clubs for players, whereas Celtic are.

If a player from the continent (or elsewhere) considers taking up an offer to play for Celtic, he will also be considering opportunities in England and that's why we're forced to pay considerably higher transfer fees and wages than the likes of Malmo and Maribor.
Are Eredivise clubs competing with Bundesliga sides? Are French clubs being Gazumped by Serie A outfits?

Just because we share a border doesn't mean we're in direct competition.
As far as I can see and for as long as I can remember, Dutch players have been stampeding out of their country as fast as they can as soon as someone waves a thick wad of banknotes under their noses.
Off the top of my head... Cruyff, Rep, Neeskens, Haan, Koeman, Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten, Bergkamp, Overmars, Cocu, Davids, the de Boers, Kluivert, Seedorf, Reiziger, van Hooijdonk, van Bronckhorst, Stam, van Nistelrooy, huntelaar, van Persie, Robben, Sneijder...
Aye, I'd say that they have a problem holding on to their better players.

As for the French, perhaps not as bad but still ... Platini, Papin, Cantona, Deschamps, Petit, Blanc, Zidane, Desailly, Dugarry, Leboeuf, Lizarazu, Djorkaeff, Karembeu, Boghossian, Trezeguet, Henry, Ginola, Vieira, Anelka, Pires, Gallas, Evra, Ribery, Thuram, weren't for hanging about in France once the offers of beaucoup d'argent came in. And there are probably a few dozen more Arsenal players that I've forgotten about.
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HenryClarson
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What strikes me as being significant is the quality of the players which the Dutch consistently produce. Even the ones who are below the standard of their top players can easily step into our side and instantly become our best player (and most valuable financial asset). How many Scottish-reared players can comfort themselves with the knowledge that if they don't make it here, they'll still be able to walk into a top Eredivisie side and use it as a stepping stone to one of the big leagues? We are so far behind in player development that it's the major reason for us needing to pay over the odds for imported duds.
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JTH
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I received my "dividend" this morning, £34! I dont effing want it, I want an experienced centre back, take your money and stick it up you arse!
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Hagi Bhoy
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HenryClarson
29 Aug 2015, 04:56 AM
What strikes me as being significant is the quality of the players which the Dutch consistently produce. Even the ones who are below the standard of their top players can easily step into our side and instantly become our best player (and most valuable financial asset). How many Scottish-reared players can comfort themselves with the knowledge that if they don't make it here, they'll still be able to walk into a top Eredivisie side and use it as a stepping stone to one of the big leagues? We are so far behind in player development that it's the major reason for us needing to pay over the odds for imported duds.
We've a manager who sees player development as one of the key facets of his job and a board who are actively trying to set the club up that way as well.
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Lubolu
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JTH
29 Aug 2015, 11:24 AM
I received my "dividend" this morning, £34! I dont effing want it, I want an experienced centre back, take your money and stick it up you arse!
You don't want it but Dermot Desmond certainly does.
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