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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,859 Views)
adammce
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Send in....the clowns!
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Cisnox
27 Aug 2015, 04:17 PM
adammce
27 Aug 2015, 04:09 PM
Cisnox
27 Aug 2015, 04:05 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeprealistically do that would gain sufficient support to be effective?

Lots of us are sickened by Desmond-Lawwell's management. We have reasoned, balanced fears for the ability of the club to live up to it's stature and the legacy of it's history. We doubt if the will exists at the highest level to at least try to drive Celtic on to be the best football club it can be, because their priority is running a stable, profitable business that handsomely rewards it executives.

I don't doubt for a minute Desmond and Lawwell & co are Celtic supporters at heart and love to see the team win, but while that's all we supporters care about, they have an additional agenda that goes beyond their responsibility to running things properly. Problem is they know how we tick; they understand our loyalty to our club and they know how to exploit it. They know mass fan revolt won't happen again as it did to oust the old regime, not least of all because we football supporters have become seduced by the gimmickry of modern football; that SKY and BT have sedated us to the point we're too complacent and just too lazy to get off our arses. And, most of all, they know that many Celtic fans are too easily distracted to stand their ground. The huns will be promoted next year and that will suffice for many who are pissed off, as sickening and exasperating a thing as that is to admit.

As we all know, the only way to get through to such people is to hit them financially. They absolutely hate negative publicity when it has the potential to annoy investors and advertisers, but most of all they fear loss of revenue. We're all season-ticketed up now - not that we would refuse to sign up en masse
Makes you come across a a bit of a pumpkin, right enough :thumbsup:
What a coincidence that you come across as a pumpkin too! :thumbsup:

Hope you're not campaigning either.
Me? Nah, not got the brutal level of self entitlement you saunter about with pal. Would effing hate to look at life through your perspective.
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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Belgrano
27 Aug 2015, 08:05 PM
murphio
27 Aug 2015, 07:07 PM
Belgrano
27 Aug 2015, 07:04 PM
Are you forgetting about the "sell our best players to a team in the English Premier League" revenue stream? That has been the biggest trigger for Lawwell getting his bonus recently.

I don't think that's true - the most it has done is trigger an extra payment on top of his bonus. His bonus doesn't appear to be linked to any performance indicator that I can see - which means it isn't actually a bonus at all. Why his salary is done like that - I have no idea.
Bonuses are usually a very good way of not paying the same level of tax you'd pay on a similar salaried amount.
Well there is the answer then.
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ciaranbelfast
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First-team starter
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rpceltic
27 Aug 2015, 07:52 PM
I wish that Celtic would take advantage of the fact that there are hundreds of very good to excellent players playing in Uruguay and Argentina who play there while owning passports for playing in the EU. The initial fee for these players would be well within Celtics current budget and wages would also be no problem. A Celtic hard to beat in Europe with fast fit strong players who have many skills would surely be the result if we switched to a South American style of play with flair to the fore.
It's ridiculous that we don't. I watch quite a lot of games in South America, a lot more than I used to in Europe and even in the lower leagues here some of the talent is immense. Feck sake just last night I watched a kid from Huracán tear tigre apart for 90 mins and score a hat trick. He is available for 500k and the commentators were saying he has an Italian passport. We should at the very least have some sort of scouting structure out here
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popeyed
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Climbing walls while sittin' in a chair.
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Cisnox
27 Aug 2015, 11:59 AM
David Hay has been out the game at this level for nearly 2 decades for eff sake. Gies peace.

The whole scouting system has been a farce, and the fact that its been allowed to continue seemingly without change (other than the addition and then departure of the ex Dundee Utd manager, whatever the eff he's called) is yet another issue that has been a catastrophe under Lawwell's management. We're now £30 million down from failing to invest correctly in the team across 3 attempts at Champions League qualification.

Yet this effin' pleb will probably pick up more money this season than the club will actually spend on player additions, which is completely effing mental.

To think people on here actually had a go at me last season because I said I was no longer going to spend money on the club or attend games whilst this guy was in charge. The only way we're getting this guy out is by people waking up and smelling the coffee and doing the same.

Faithful through and through? Aye, financially support and keep this guy in a job whilst we continue our journey into farcical mediocrity. We should be LIGHT YEARS ahead of where we are right now.

Stop spending money and supporting this guy.
Is that weird looking ex Hearts manager with the tinted gegs still scouting for us?
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Sjb141
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ciaranbelfast
27 Aug 2015, 08:22 PM
rpceltic
27 Aug 2015, 07:52 PM
I wish that Celtic would take advantage of the fact that there are hundreds of very good to excellent players playing in Uruguay and Argentina who play there while owning passports for playing in the EU. The initial fee for these players would be well within Celtics current budget and wages would also be no problem. A Celtic hard to beat in Europe with fast fit strong players who have many skills would surely be the result if we switched to a South American style of play with flair to the fore.
It's ridiculous that we don't. I watch quite a lot of games in South America, a lot more than I used to in Europe and even in the lower leagues here some of the talent is immense. Feck sake just last night I watched a kid from Huracán tear tigre apart for 90 mins and score a hat trick. He is available for 500k and the commentators were saying he has an Italian passport. We should at the very least have some sort of scouting structure out here
Agree with you there - my aunt is brazilian so I'll try to catch some games from time to time.

Obviously there are loads of potential issues with culture/settling and all that but still should be making the effort.
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ciaranbelfast
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First-team starter
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Sjb141
27 Aug 2015, 08:30 PM
ciaranbelfast
27 Aug 2015, 08:22 PM
rpceltic
27 Aug 2015, 07:52 PM
I wish that Celtic would take advantage of the fact that there are hundreds of very good to excellent players playing in Uruguay and Argentina who play there while owning passports for playing in the EU. The initial fee for these players would be well within Celtics current budget and wages would also be no problem. A Celtic hard to beat in Europe with fast fit strong players who have many skills would surely be the result if we switched to a South American style of play with flair to the fore.
It's ridiculous that we don't. I watch quite a lot of games in South America, a lot more than I used to in Europe and even in the lower leagues here some of the talent is immense. Feck sake just last night I watched a kid from Huracán tear tigre apart for 90 mins and score a hat trick. He is available for 500k and the commentators were saying he has an Italian passport. We should at the very least have some sort of scouting structure out here
Agree with you there - my aunt is brazilian so I'll try to catch some games from time to time.

Obviously there are loads of potential issues with culture/settling and all that but still should be making the effort.
I tend to go to Deportivo Cuenca games when I can and I have seen enough talent here to suggest they would have no problem stepping up to the SPL. They breed them hard in this country and Ecuadorians have tended to fit in well in the EPL so I see no reason why we shouldn't be looking out here. There is plenty of talented players available for next to nothing
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kellybhoy
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Play me or trade me
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timtastic
27 Aug 2015, 06:30 PM
kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 06:16 PM
Let me get this straight. Malmo's footballing budget is a fraction of ours and they eliminated us. Same goes for Maribor and Legia. So we want the Board to increase our footballing budget so we can beat these lower budget teams. How does that work? :ponder:
I want to see the club stop buying cheap rubbish. A long list on never hasbeens over the last few years with the odd exception. Surely instead of 3 players at £1.5 million we could get so m done at £3 million on a decent wage

The Lawwell model needs a bit of out of the box thinking at times. A project manager buying project players is m o 're of a gamble than the occasional bit of quality.

I gave my season ticket met up a few years ago as I wasn't enjoying it anymore, nothing to do with the huns, all to do with how I feel about the way we are being run.
I hear you, but you have to admit that it hasn't all been cheap rubbish. It's gambling alright, but we have had a few gems out of it; Wanyama, Ki, Forster, VVD. I also wouldn't call Commons, Matthews, Ledley, Armstrong, GMS or Griffiths cheap rubbish. Maybe we should be looking at why someone like Berget was scouted, acquired, but never contributed, yet looks like a star playing against us.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 08:56 PM
timtastic
27 Aug 2015, 06:30 PM
kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 06:16 PM
Let me get this straight. Malmo's footballing budget is a fraction of ours and they eliminated us. Same goes for Maribor and Legia. So we want the Board to increase our footballing budget so we can beat these lower budget teams. How does that work? :ponder:
I want to see the club stop buying cheap rubbish. A long list on never hasbeens over the last few years with the odd exception. Surely instead of 3 players at £1.5 million we could get so m done at £3 million on a decent wage

The Lawwell model needs a bit of out of the box thinking at times. A project manager buying project players is m o 're of a gamble than the occasional bit of quality.

I gave my season ticket met up a few years ago as I wasn't enjoying it anymore, nothing to do with the huns, all to do with how I feel about the way we are being run.
I hear you, but you have to admit that it hasn't all been cheap rubbish. It's gambling alright, but we have had a few gems out of it; Wanyama, Ki, Forster, VVD. I also wouldn't call Commons, Matthews, Ledley, Armstrong, GMS or Griffiths cheap rubbish. Maybe we should be looking at why someone like Berget was scouted, acquired, but never contributed, yet looks like a star playing against us.
Berget wasnt really scouted, he was someone known to RD , and he was available at a time when RD needed players, having found our squad not to his liking. The start Berget made, being thrown into an away tie in Europe without ever having met his team mates , was far from ideal, and he didn't seem to fit in thereafter. It happens with players. To be honest, I thought he was very ordinary against us, despite his goals at CP. if we hadn't had him before, I couldn't see us rushing to buy him after his performances against us.
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aldo
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And that's the way we like it...
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fatboab
27 Aug 2015, 09:02 PM
kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 08:56 PM
timtastic
27 Aug 2015, 06:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I hear you, but you have to admit that it hasn't all been cheap rubbish. It's gambling alright, but we have had a few gems out of it; Wanyama, Ki, Forster, VVD. I also wouldn't call Commons, Matthews, Ledley, Armstrong, GMS or Griffiths cheap rubbish. Maybe we should be looking at why someone like Berget was scouted, acquired, but never contributed, yet looks like a star playing against us.
Berget wasnt really scouted, he was someone known to RD , and he was available at a time when RD needed players, having found our squad not to his liking. The start Berget made, being thrown into an away tie in Europe without ever having met his team mates , was far from ideal, and he didn't seem to fit in thereafter. It happens with players. To be honest, I thought he was very ordinary against us, despite his goals at CP. if we hadn't had him before, I couldn't see us rushing to buy him after his performances against us.
Really? I'm sure I can remember the chat on here at the time reminding us that Park had earmarked Berget the previous year but Lenny was having none of it.
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murphio
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Could start a row in an empty room
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fatboab
27 Aug 2015, 09:02 PM
kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 08:56 PM
timtastic
27 Aug 2015, 06:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I hear you, but you have to admit that it hasn't all been cheap rubbish. It's gambling alright, but we have had a few gems out of it; Wanyama, Ki, Forster, VVD. I also wouldn't call Commons, Matthews, Ledley, Armstrong, GMS or Griffiths cheap rubbish. Maybe we should be looking at why someone like Berget was scouted, acquired, but never contributed, yet looks like a star playing against us.
Berget wasnt really scouted, he was someone known to RD , and he was available at a time when RD needed players, having found our squad not to his liking. The start Berget made, being thrown into an away tie in Europe without ever having met his team mates , was far from ideal, and he didn't seem to fit in thereafter. It happens with players. To be honest, I thought he was very ordinary against us, despite his goals at CP. if we hadn't had him before, I couldn't see us rushing to buy him after his performances against us.
I thought we made Berget look like Pirlo strutting about. That's not to say I think he is a great player, far from it. It's just that Brown, Bitton and Johansen played so badly. Berget was a waste of time - just like Tonez, Wakaso and ultimately Guidetti. Stop gaps used to fill the squad because we weren't prepared to back the manager with any kind of real cash.
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LoveCeltic
First name on the team-sheet
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tinsoldier
27 Aug 2015, 12:18 PM
Was it not about this time last year Lawwell was interviewed by Celtic TV about the strategy of the club, and interview he then distributed to the media?
The really embarrassing one which was blatantly pumped with lies? Think it was yes.
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LoveCeltic
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MBhoy1888
27 Aug 2015, 05:16 PM
murphio
27 Aug 2015, 03:59 PM
Some of this is a bit over the top. Boycotts... really? We need a deviation in policy and we need to stop rewarding failure. But fundamentally those are in charge are attempting to look after the best interests in the club. The fact of the matter is Malmo assembled their team for the same money we spent on Ciftci. Their players earn a fraction of what ours do. A lack of investment is not why we are out of the Champions League again. How many times over do we need to outspend the likes of Legia, Maribor and Malmo before we get it right on the park? Too many mistakes have been made in the football operation from the hiring (and attempted hiring) of players and managers. It has been extremely costly on and off the park. We absolutely need a complete review of the football side of things from a youth policy which isn't producing, a scouting operation which is finding too many duds and a management team which has failed spectacularly to eliminate a team on a fraction of their budget. We need change, for sure, not revolution.
Agree with all this.
So we need to change everything but shouldn't be proactive about voicing this and it's not revolution? :ponder:
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Edmontim
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We have failed in Europe way too many times in recent years. In addition, the quality of the team has regressed substantially. Our executive and management love to complain about lack of funds in comparison with our EPL counterparts. However, they have a much bigger budget to work with than most of the teams we play in Europe - Legia, Maribor and Malmo's budgets are a fraction of ours. Yet, these teams have outperformed us.

Celtic are set up to qualify for the champions league. We are given 2 ties against poor unseeded teams from poor footballing nations (no offense), then we are handed a very winnable draw against average teams from other small leagues. Yet, we fail most of the time. We are set up to qualify.

As far as I'm concerned, the board and PLhave ran out of time and excuses and there should be a big change. I would like a new manager and executive team.
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letterkenny via govanhill
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Occasional Substitute
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Edmontim
27 Aug 2015, 10:33 PM
We have failed in Europe way too many times in recent years. In addition, the quality of the team has regressed substantially. Our executive and management love to complain about lack of funds in comparison with our EPL counterparts. However, they have a much bigger budget to work with than most of the teams we play in Europe - Legia, Maribor and Malmo's budgets are a fraction of ours. Yet, these teams have outperformed us.

Celtic are set up to qualify for the champions league. We are given 2 ties against poor unseeded teams from poor footballing nations (no offense), then we are handed a very winnable draw against average teams from other small leagues. Yet, we fail most of the time. We are set up to qualify.

As far as I'm concerned, the board and PLhave ran out of time and excuses and there should be a big change. I would like a new manager and executive team.
I dont think it's too much too expect that our effin billionaire owner might consider spending the same percentage of his yearly income on the club as the average fan does. Otherwise he is a tory loving parasite and can get to eff

Edit: Was intended as a post, not a reply, sorry
Edited by letterkenny via govanhill, 27 Aug 2015, 10:51 PM.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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....give us a glimmer......
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murphio
27 Aug 2015, 10:09 PM
fatboab
27 Aug 2015, 09:02 PM
kellybhoy
27 Aug 2015, 08:56 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Berget wasnt really scouted, he was someone known to RD , and he was available at a time when RD needed players, having found our squad not to his liking. The start Berget made, being thrown into an away tie in Europe without ever having met his team mates , was far from ideal, and he didn't seem to fit in thereafter. It happens with players. To be honest, I thought he was very ordinary against us, despite his goals at CP. if we hadn't had him before, I couldn't see us rushing to buy him after his performances against us.
I thought we made Berget look like Pirlo strutting about. That's not to say I think he is a great player, far from it. It's just that Brown, Bitton and Johansen played so badly. Berget was a waste of time - just like Tonez, Wakaso and ultimately Guidetti. Stop gaps used to fill the squad because we weren't prepared to back the manager with any kind of real cash.
deila didn't use berget properly. Its something else that's worrying me about the manager.
Edited by MILLIGANS ISLAND, 27 Aug 2015, 10:59 PM.
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frankebhoy
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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We don't have a plan to actually build and maintain a great team , we havent for years,
last season for instance, we brought in an untested kid from Man City to play in Europe for us,in a crucial position in the team.as it happens it turned out well, but,
the board knew he would return there at the end of the season, they also knew they were selling the other centre back this season.
that was going to leave us requiring to sign two centre backs this season ,
they also sold adam matthews knowing Lustig was almost always injured ,
they know we have struggled at left back for the past two years, but hey we can always bring in Charlie in games where izzi cant be trusted.
this is the entire defence were talking about and we wonder why we got pumped out the champions league.
couple of seasons ago they sold the entire backbone of the side, hooper, wanyama wilson etc,
Lawwell might do a job when it comes to the infrastructure , stadium, his bonus etc ,
but its all at the expense of the team.this has been going on for years under his watch,
we have lost numerous lucrative champions league participation slots on occasions when we should have cantered it .
a few incidently against the worst ever rangers team who got automatic entry into the c/ league, a rangers who were on their knees and dying beat us .
with Kenny Miller who was sold against the managers wishes inflicting severe damage on us.
dont even get me started on Mowbrey , appointing a manager who had just got his team relegated ,i mean who thought that was an idea.
cost the best part of £5000000 to sack him and his management team and who knows how much to hire,
and we still canny even buy a left back .


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seaneh
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Considering retirement
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Ess
27 Aug 2015, 06:52 PM
Quiet Assasin
27 Aug 2015, 06:43 PM
It's still €1.5m for a win.
Yes sorry - 1.5m - 5m for the last 16 :thumbsup:

Thought it had went up - but anyway its a significant amount for us and the only significant revenue stream open to us at the moment.
We wouldn't have had to worry about that with Malmo's group :lol:
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Faust
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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Belgrano
27 Aug 2015, 08:05 PM
murphio
27 Aug 2015, 07:07 PM
Belgrano
27 Aug 2015, 07:04 PM
Are you forgetting about the "sell our best players to a team in the English Premier League" revenue stream? That has been the biggest trigger for Lawwell getting his bonus recently.

I don't think that's true - the most it has done is trigger an extra payment on top of his bonus. His bonus doesn't appear to be linked to any performance indicator that I can see - which means it isn't actually a bonus at all. Why his salary is done like that - I have no idea.
Bonuses are usually a very good way of not paying the same level of tax you'd pay on a similar salaried amount.
As a very successful , prominent Celtic-minded businessman said me recently:

"Lawwell's only KPI is to make sure DD does not have to spend a single penny on the club".

And as John Lydon famously said:

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night!"


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murphio
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seaneh
27 Aug 2015, 11:53 PM
Ess
27 Aug 2015, 06:52 PM
Quiet Assasin
27 Aug 2015, 06:43 PM
It's still €1.5m for a win.
Yes sorry - 1.5m - 5m for the last 16 :thumbsup:

Thought it had went up - but anyway its a significant amount for us and the only significant revenue stream open to us at the moment.
We wouldn't have had to worry about that with Malmo's group :lol:
Yeah well people said that 10 years ago. I seem to remember someone on here predicting Celtic would get zero points under Strachan in 2006/2007. We made the last 16 and took Milan, the eventual winners, all the way.
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Singapore Bhoy
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Faust
28 Aug 2015, 12:04 AM
Belgrano
27 Aug 2015, 08:05 PM
murphio
27 Aug 2015, 07:07 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Bonuses are usually a very good way of not paying the same level of tax you'd pay on a similar salaried amount.
As a very successful , prominent Celtic-minded businessman said me recently:

"Lawwell's only KPI is to make sure DD does not have to spend a single penny on the club".

And as John Lydon famously said:

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated? Good night!"


Just my opinion, but whilst I laughed at and enjoyed Rangers decline, their ultimate demise and exit from our league has damaged the "product". This affects revenue, full stop. Yet many on here want millions invested that isn't there and "could" lead us down the same path as our former biggest rivals. To spend millions and hope it is enough to get us into the Champions league is a gamble and good businessmen don't gamble with those odds. As a fan, I want them to take the chance, even just for one season. Invest high now, bed the players in and be ready for next seasons qualifiers. Qualify and reap all the investment back. Easy, no?

But here's the thing, if Im running Celtic as my business in the current environment, I actually do need to be cautious. Over extending can quickly lead to serious issues outwith your own control. Banks today have a very very different view on debt and ANY companies ability to repay!!

Do I think we could have invested more smartly- Yes but my wife also has a degree in hindsight (why the fook did you do tha? :nono: )

The club was forced to change it's strategy and "try" to buy undiscovered talent and sell with a high margin. This in the main has worked with high revenue being brought in each season to keep the investment in salary and fees reasonable. Again given the environment we are working in!)

I am not defending Peter Lawwell, but he has actually made reasonable funds available but the football side of the business has blown millions on duff signings. That is not his fault and I think he could expect a better ratio of good young uns being brought in and not the high percentage of dross.

That is my one criticism, given all this and obvious waste of precious resources, why the hell hasn't there been a complete overhaul of the footballing side? Youth development and scouting? Pay to bring in the best youth coach out there. Pay him over the odds to come and revamp our youth setup for 2-3 years?
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