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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
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Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,869 Views)
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shugmc
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26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
Post #3061
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact 2 we have learned to live within our means 3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure 4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players
I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment! 1. So are Maribor and Malmo. Fact. 2. And if that means failing to spend moderately to qualify for the Champions League, so be it. 3. Oh yes. Remember the balance sheet. Those bonuses won't pay themselves. 4. Scottish football is scheidt. If only there was a chance of top-level Euro football to break the monotony. Oh, wait.... Your last bit (living wage notwithstanding) is the old 'remember the dead hun' schtick By association, you imply that any Celtic supporter in favour of investing wisely in the future - as opposed to the penny-wise-pound-foolish false economies of the present board - is a pipe-dreaming, gum-bumping moron, incapable of basic arithmetic. Can't all be accountants, eh?
"Froth and embellishment", my arse. Lawwell out.
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Antoninho
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26 Aug 2015, 01:44 PM
Post #3062
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- Loris
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:40 PM
- Bryan67
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:32 PM
We are in a rut just now and require mass changes on and off the park just to start building up some speed in the slow lane.
Seems like we find ourselves in this position every two years. This. Until we eventually do get into the champions league and the complacency starts kicking in. Again.
It shouldn't have to be, but maybe it's a blessing in disguise.
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adl
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26 Aug 2015, 01:44 PM
Post #3063
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For most of the club's history up until 2012, progress was measured against what the huns were doing.
Despite everything that has happened, they are still the 'barometer' for the Celtic board.
As long as Celtic are Champions of Scotland and outperforming whatever mob is operating out of Ibrox, it'll be "job done" for Peter Lawwell and co.
Europe is secondary and Scotland's declining co-efficient has meant that CL football is now a lottery - one bad perfomance (like last night) and it's the devalued Europa League.
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Mackin
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26 Aug 2015, 01:45 PM
Post #3064
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
- Corky Buczek
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:26 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep 
The CEO should not be getting paid more than our strikers irrespective of how well we do. We have taken the decision for three years now to not spend whilst the qualifiers are on. This is a flawed concept for a variety of reasons. If you do make it through then you are at the fag end of the window and you end up with the likes of Teemu Pukki. And of course you run the risk that by not strengthening, you increase your chances of getting papped out. I am not asking the club to get into major league debt. I am asking for sensible spending. Are you telling me that we can't afford say £2M for a left back that is an upgrade on what we have. And there is no point in saying to our best striker over the past decade that he is not worth £30K a week, then blew £7 or £8M on a succession of duds. Just because we have minimal debt does not mean we are being run well at all
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!! Peter Lawwells mismanagement over the past 3 years has cost us £50m.
Fifty million pounds.
£50,000,000.
In what other business would a person responsible for costing a company £50m in 3 years keep his job?
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westendtim
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26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
Post #3065
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- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact 2 we have learned to live within our means 3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure 4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players
I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
1. So are Maribor and Malmo. Fact. 2. And if that means failing to spend moderately to qualify for the Champions League, so be it. 3. Oh yes. Remember the balance sheet. Those bonuses won't pay themselves. 4. Scottish football is scheidt. If only there was a chance of top-level Euro football to break the monotony. Oh, wait.... Your last bit (living wage notwithstanding) is the old 'remember the dead hun' schtick  By association, you imply that any Celtic supporter in favour of investing wisely in the future - as opposed to the penny-wise-pound-foolish false economies of the present board - is a pipe-dreaming, gum-bumping moron, incapable of basic arithmetic. Can't all be accountants, eh? "Froth and embellishment", my arse. Lawwell out. As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real " now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !!
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shugmc
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26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
Post #3066
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- Mackin
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:45 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!
Peter Lawwells mismanagement over the past 3 years has cost us £50m. Fifty million pounds. £50,000,000. In what other business would a person responsible for costing a company £50m in 3 years keep his job? Pete should consider a move to the banking sector. It's the only other industry where failure is so handsomely rewarded.
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ChiliPepper
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26 Aug 2015, 01:57 PM
Post #3067
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The scandalous amount of money we've wasted is enough to have Lawwell leave and have an actual director football come in. Look at how well Hearts have done since bringing in a manager who is similar to Deila, but also with a DOF who knows about the game.
I would like to think that if we had that sort of system in place that we wouldn't have pissed 10+mil away on utter shampooe in the last three years.
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Mackin
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26 Aug 2015, 01:58 PM
Post #3068
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- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
- Mackin
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:45 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!
Peter Lawwells mismanagement over the past 3 years has cost us £50m. Fifty million pounds. £50,000,000. In what other business would a person responsible for costing a company £50m in 3 years keep his job?
Pete should consider a move to the banking sector. It's the only other industry where failure is so handsomely rewarded. I wouldnt be surprised if the tory carrot got a peerage.
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SaMule
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26 Aug 2015, 01:58 PM
Post #3069
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact 2 we have learned to live within our means 3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure 4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players
I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
1. So are Maribor and Malmo. Fact. 2. And if that means failing to spend moderately to qualify for the Champions League, so be it. 3. Oh yes. Remember the balance sheet. Those bonuses won't pay themselves. 4. Scottish football is scheidt. If only there was a chance of top-level Euro football to break the monotony. Oh, wait.... Your last bit (living wage notwithstanding) is the old 'remember the dead hun' schtick  By association, you imply that any Celtic supporter in favour of investing wisely in the future - as opposed to the penny-wise-pound-foolish false economies of the present board - is a pipe-dreaming, gum-bumping moron, incapable of basic arithmetic. Can't all be accountants, eh? "Froth and embellishment", my arse. Lawwell out.
As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real " now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !! No-one's suggesting that we spend spend spend as a way to fix the problems at Celtic. The problem isn't so much the amount that we spend, it's what we spend it on. There are way too many people at Celtic who are earning far more than their talents and contributions merit.
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Mackin
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26 Aug 2015, 02:00 PM
Post #3070
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact 2 we have learned to live within our means 3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure 4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players
I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
1. So are Maribor and Malmo. Fact. 2. And if that means failing to spend moderately to qualify for the Champions League, so be it. 3. Oh yes. Remember the balance sheet. Those bonuses won't pay themselves. 4. Scottish football is scheidt. If only there was a chance of top-level Euro football to break the monotony. Oh, wait.... Your last bit (living wage notwithstanding) is the old 'remember the dead hun' schtick  By association, you imply that any Celtic supporter in favour of investing wisely in the future - as opposed to the penny-wise-pound-foolish false economies of the present board - is a pipe-dreaming, gum-bumping moron, incapable of basic arithmetic. Can't all be accountants, eh? "Froth and embellishment", my arse. Lawwell out.
As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real " now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !! Sadly Peter Lawwell has you and thousands of other idiots fooled into believing there is no middle ground between penny pinching and going bust.
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Tim Waits
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26 Aug 2015, 02:02 PM
Post #3071
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Small-Minded Bien-Pensant
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We're being managed right into a state of utter mediocrity or worse. Failing to qualify for the CL two years running, and the accompanying inevitable lack of investment, is a vicious cycle that will only get harder and harder to break. And forget the money, the widening gulf between the club and the support is even more dangerous.
We need to know that management wants the same things we do. Right now it's not at all clear, and all the PR in the world won't change that.
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Sjb141
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26 Aug 2015, 02:04 PM
Post #3072
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
- Corky Buczek
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:26 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep 
The CEO should not be getting paid more than our strikers irrespective of how well we do. We have taken the decision for three years now to not spend whilst the qualifiers are on. This is a flawed concept for a variety of reasons. If you do make it through then you are at the fag end of the window and you end up with the likes of Teemu Pukki. And of course you run the risk that by not strengthening, you increase your chances of getting papped out. I am not asking the club to get into major league debt. I am asking for sensible spending. Are you telling me that we can't afford say £2M for a left back that is an upgrade on what we have. And there is no point in saying to our best striker over the past decade that he is not worth £30K a week, then blew £7 or £8M on a succession of duds. Just because we have minimal debt does not mean we are being run well at all
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!! Al of these would be reasonable points of we were getting knocked out of Europe by the likes of west ham or Southampton or watford.
But they don't ring true when we're losing consistency to teams whose wage bill ours dwarfs.
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TheEvilGenius
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26 Aug 2015, 02:12 PM
Post #3073
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Can't wait for the hastily arranged Celtic tv interview where Pedro tells us everything is going to plan...
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shugmc
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26 Aug 2015, 02:12 PM
Post #3074
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real "* now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !! Hysterical nonsense 
*The quote is actually 'Think white and get serious'. It's as nonsensical here as it was in As Good As It Gets (how apt).
Apropos of nothing, Nicolson's character - Melvin - was a big feartie who eventually saw the error of his ways...
Edited by shugmc, 26 Aug 2015, 02:23 PM.
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B.I.G
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26 Aug 2015, 02:15 PM
Post #3075
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- Sjb141
- 26 Aug 2015, 02:04 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
- Corky Buczek
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:26 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep 
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!!
Al of these would be reasonable points of we were getting knocked out of Europe by the likes of west ham or Southampton or watford. But they don't ring true when we're losing consistency to teams whose wage bill ours dwarfs. Deila has probably spent similar to what the Malmo boss has spent there.
The majority of the squad is made up of Lennon's signings, and Lennon and Deila's styles are completely different. My main argument is that Deila hasn't been given the opportunity to build his own squad. He's had to shoe horn players into his style, some have been successes, others haven't and that showed last night.
We've sold lots, and he has been given pennies from said sales. Not enough to buy a player capable of coming into the starting 11 and being a star, so he has had to resort to spending pennies on dross to fill the squad. Every signing this year has been a step down from whom they are replacing. Janko is nowhere near Matthews' level etc.
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Hoops For Me All The Way
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26 Aug 2015, 02:17 PM
Post #3076
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You want equality? Consider if that person feels Equal.
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- SaMule
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:58 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real " now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !!
No-one's suggesting that we spend spend spend as a way to fix the problems at Celtic. The problem isn't so much the amount that we spend, it's what we spend it on. There are way too many people at Celtic who are earning far more than their talents and contributions merit. Yes, it's what we spend it on and how they are scouted.
It's also about timing. No point in last minute signings when clubs can hold you to ransom. Timing is also important as there are generally lower quality players available during the winter break.
Again timing is important as a new "prospect" player needs to develop into someone that can contribute in a CL squad.
Timing again becomes important, because when you are a selling club, you need someone ready to step in.
Timing is also important to ensure that you don't have a bunch of mediocre or bellow par players in your squad at the same time, meaning a major rebuild and selling them for peanuts.
You cannot enter the transfer market at the last minute and hope to resolve every problem. We don't have the money for that.
Timing again becomes important if the purse strings are closed and the manager needs to hope for a decent loan player. What club would be interested at the moment in lending us one of their players to develop for them.
We need to have a continual rolling 2-3 year transfer squad policy that allows us to have a chance of reaching the Holy Grail of the Group Stages of CL. That might allow for players to be developed, a ready made player to come in, the occasional loan and the inevitable sales.
We signed a DU striker that should never have been signed. We have positions crying out for replacements. These things can happen, but they should not happen all at once. We should never have to rebuild every 2 years and waste money.
Other clubs manage it, with a bit of creativity and timing so can we. Just plan it please. The fans will accept that a high value player will be sold, but work should be done in the background for a replacement to slot in, at the right time.
We have had a free run at the SPFL but cannot rest on our laurels. Fans want more than that. They pay for it in many ways. There is £20m yearly there for the asking. We don't need to be financially risky in our approach.
Thank goodness for Craig Gordon. What happens if he gets injured?
If the fans are the 12th man, where are the others?
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Locky255
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26 Aug 2015, 02:27 PM
Post #3077
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He's still here then?
F*ck off.
And if PL is just a puppet for DD, then DD can f*ck off too.
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westendtim
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26 Aug 2015, 02:29 PM
Post #3078
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- Mackin
- 26 Aug 2015, 02:00 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:49 PM
- shugmc
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:41 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
As the great Jack Nicholson once said " think white and get real " now while the first comment was inappropriate the second was not and is the crux of the matter, I am not an accountant and just a season ticket holder which like you entitled to an opinion, mine is that I never want my club to be at the mercy of a bank again and if I'm over cautious that's why. I want my team to win every game it plays and to win in style, but no one can do the impossible !!
Sadly Peter Lawwell has you and thousands of other idiots fooled into believing there is no middle ground between penny pinching and going bust. I'd hardly call you an idiot, as I value your right to have an opinion, so I don't see what qualies you to call me that, I think you take your opinions and share with the people that agree with you, I'm happy with the basis i place my thoughts on and its fair to say I'll never agree with your point of view, however I am mature enough to do that without name calling
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ChiliPepper
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26 Aug 2015, 02:32 PM
Post #3079
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It's all very well writing it on here but what are we actually going to do...
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Corky Buczek
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26 Aug 2015, 02:32 PM
Post #3080
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- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:38 PM
- Corky Buczek
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:26 PM
- westendtim
- 26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep 
The CEO should not be getting paid more than our strikers irrespective of how well we do. We have taken the decision for three years now to not spend whilst the qualifiers are on. This is a flawed concept for a variety of reasons. If you do make it through then you are at the fag end of the window and you end up with the likes of Teemu Pukki. And of course you run the risk that by not strengthening, you increase your chances of getting papped out. I am not asking the club to get into major league debt. I am asking for sensible spending. Are you telling me that we can't afford say £2M for a left back that is an upgrade on what we have. And there is no point in saying to our best striker over the past decade that he is not worth £30K a week, then blew £7 or £8M on a succession of duds. Just because we have minimal debt does not mean we are being run well at all
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!! No disrespect mate but that is pretty far fetched.
We could hire a decent CEO on half of what Lawwell currently gets. It is NOT market driven and you are being blinded by spin if you think we need to pay a CEO double what we pay the entire football management team. You don't need to pay someone £1M a year to manage decline and that is what PL does.
On the playing side, there are plenty of left backs in Europe who are currently better than ours whose wages are in our price range. most players on the continent don't earn anywhere near £20K a week.
We have made the CL twice in seven years. Having manageable debt does not make up for that nor is it an indication of us being well run.
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