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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,870 Views)
Corky Buczek
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Ned Rise
26 Aug 2015, 10:06 AM
The policy doesn't work. We are a club of serial gamblers. We gambled against Karagandy and a last minute goal saw us through. But for the width of our crossbar we'd have been out.

So the next year we gamble again on an unproven manager. This time it's even worse, because when we get utterly ripped to shreds, we land a get out of jail free card. Inexplicably, the team isn't strengthened and we go out again.

We then scramble on transfer deadline day getting in strikers because the ones we have evidently aren't good enough. So, where are those strikers today. One was a loan and one is nowhere to be seen. We have however 'bolstered' our frontline with yet another signing from Dundee Utd. If anyone looked at Dundee Utd last season and thought that taking a third of their team would be way forward, they'd have been in a minority of four or five people. Yet here we are. Last night, two were benched and one was subbed.

We have a strategy of buying Scottish players. Nothing wrong with that except Scotland aren't very good. Of the six who started last night, one of them is a regular for Scotland and one used to be before he was injured.

Celtic made over £20M in the Champions League post Karagandy. Was it wisely invested? Is the team any better today than it was then?

Not qualifying for the CL has cost Celtic at least £40M this year and last. This means we have to sell our players and replace them with those of a lower standard. This means more gambles. More Pukkis, Baldes, Boerrigters, Ciftcis, Boyatas, more loan deals of players who haven't ever played competitive games of football or who have been out with career threatening injuries.

We sold Forster for £10M and got Gordon. It was a gamble that paid off. Had it been like the majority of those other gambles, a failure, we'd have seen Zaluska in goals for us last year. Year on year, the quality is drained, yet year on year the illusion is sold that the team is getting better and the club is moving forward. It's like the optical illusion of the wheels on a car seemingly spinning backwards while the car is moving forwards. In our case, the wheels appear to be spinning forward.

So the managers, Lennon and Deila, have both been sold short. There's no question of that. However, last night showed once again that this isn't the only problem at the club. We had control of the game at Celtic Park and failed to close out a reasonably comfortable lead. That said, Malmo would have got the result last night whether they needed one goal, or two, and maybe even three. Celtic under Deila are mentally weak. We went into the game last night in control of the situation. We were winning before the ball was kicked. Even at half time we only needed one goal, but by then it was evident the gig was up. Against Inverness, we also had a ridiculously bad decision go against us, but we were winning the game when we came out in the second half, 11 v 11 and then proceed to baws it up. We were in control of the tie against Maribor, having taken the lead over there and, in the home game, still in a winning position with 20 minutes to go. As in many cases, our substitutions were disastrous and handed the tie to them.

I like Ronny. He's a likeable guy and I like the ideal of a Celtic side playing fast, attacking, pressing football. But a goal in the last minute is as good as a goal in the first minute. If we're blowing out our arses after an hour, as we were last week, then there is little point in playing a game at an intensity that our players can't last the full 90 minutes at. Inverness finished stronger than us (just because we went down to 10 men doesn't mean we should fold like a cheap deckchair) and Malmo played at an intensity for 90 minutes last night that we simply aren't capable of doing ourselves.

Maybe we thought we'd simply beat them because they were Swedish and we usually beat Swedish teams. It wouldn't be surprising as it's the kind of complacency that haunts Celtic. In the end, they wanted it more. They dug in at Celtic Park and for an hour they looked the more able and likely side. If the manager can't get his team to play as if they want it then we've got a problem. His team selection seemed to me like there are loud voices in the dressing room who didn't want Ambrose or Izzy picked. The manager played an untried defence in the most important game of the season. Whether he was listening to people in the dressing room, or whether he made the decision of his own accord, his bottle crashed. Subsequently the team's bottle crashed. We were unlucky with the goal last night, an appalling decision, but we have the ref to thank for not sending of any number of our players last night and so leading to further embarrassment.

I'm afraid I don't think Ronny has it. However, does he get the players he wants? Was it his choice to sell Berget (on the performance in the two legs you could say it's the kind of bruising performer that we have indeed lacked) or did Lawwell decide he wasn't cutting it and let him go? Did he want to sell Matthews, leaving him with the right back dilemma he had last night, where he ended up playing a rookie who has made one start for us?

Ultimately, if he goes, who's there to replace him? Who wants to be at a club which buys five suits from Oxfam and hopes one is wearable after a dry clean, rather than just putting the money together and buying, for want of a better phrase, a nice, sharp suit?

In the end, Celtic are not anymore in the business of building a team. They are in the business of managing expectations while selling the best players off a stuttering conveyor belt. Celtic in the last 4-5 seasons has had the makings of a top side. Yet we sell the forwards to finance the defence, leaving us with no forwards worthy of the jersey. Or we have holes in the defence that our decent forward line struggles to cover for. We've had a strong spine, from goalkeeper through central defence, midfield and up front. Regrettably, they never all played at the same time and, even more regrettably, those who have the power to make it happen have no interest in doing so.

Enjoy your £1M bonus, Peter, enjoy the Bahamas, Dermot. Send us a postcard with the next phase of the strategy on the back.
:potm:
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Novelty_Bauble
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Delia says "we will learn from CL exit". It's a shame "we" won't include Lawwell and the board.
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shugmc
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westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 12:20 PM
Boycott a club that's on its way to 10 in a row :cuckoo: . disappointing night last night granted but let down by players not performing on the night not by the board members ! IMO
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DELSCORES
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Corky Buczek
26 Aug 2015, 12:40 PM
Ned Rise
26 Aug 2015, 10:06 AM
The policy doesn't work. We are a club of serial gamblers. We gambled against Karagandy and a last minute goal saw us through. But for the width of our crossbar we'd have been out.

So the next year we gamble again on an unproven manager. This time it's even worse, because when we get utterly ripped to shreds, we land a get out of jail free card. Inexplicably, the team isn't strengthened and we go out again.

We then scramble on transfer deadline day getting in strikers because the ones we have evidently aren't good enough. So, where are those strikers today. One was a loan and one is nowhere to be seen. We have however 'bolstered' our frontline with yet another signing from Dundee Utd. If anyone looked at Dundee Utd last season and thought that taking a third of their team would be way forward, they'd have been in a minority of four or five people. Yet here we are. Last night, two were benched and one was subbed.

We have a strategy of buying Scottish players. Nothing wrong with that except Scotland aren't very good. Of the six who started last night, one of them is a regular for Scotland and one used to be before he was injured.

Celtic made over £20M in the Champions League post Karagandy. Was it wisely invested? Is the team any better today than it was then?

Not qualifying for the CL has cost Celtic at least £40M this year and last. This means we have to sell our players and replace them with those of a lower standard. This means more gambles. More Pukkis, Baldes, Boerrigters, Ciftcis, Boyatas, more loan deals of players who haven't ever played competitive games of football or who have been out with career threatening injuries.

We sold Forster for £10M and got Gordon. It was a gamble that paid off. Had it been like the majority of those other gambles, a failure, we'd have seen Zaluska in goals for us last year. Year on year, the quality is drained, yet year on year the illusion is sold that the team is getting better and the club is moving forward. It's like the optical illusion of the wheels on a car seemingly spinning backwards while the car is moving forwards. In our case, the wheels appear to be spinning forward.

So the managers, Lennon and Deila, have both been sold short. There's no question of that. However, last night showed once again that this isn't the only problem at the club. We had control of the game at Celtic Park and failed to close out a reasonably comfortable lead. That said, Malmo would have got the result last night whether they needed one goal, or two, and maybe even three. Celtic under Deila are mentally weak. We went into the game last night in control of the situation. We were winning before the ball was kicked. Even at half time we only needed one goal, but by then it was evident the gig was up. Against Inverness, we also had a ridiculously bad decision go against us, but we were winning the game when we came out in the second half, 11 v 11 and then proceed to baws it up. We were in control of the tie against Maribor, having taken the lead over there and, in the home game, still in a winning position with 20 minutes to go. As in many cases, our substitutions were disastrous and handed the tie to them.

I like Ronny. He's a likeable guy and I like the ideal of a Celtic side playing fast, attacking, pressing football. But a goal in the last minute is as good as a goal in the first minute. If we're blowing out our arses after an hour, as we were last week, then there is little point in playing a game at an intensity that our players can't last the full 90 minutes at. Inverness finished stronger than us (just because we went down to 10 men doesn't mean we should fold like a cheap deckchair) and Malmo played at an intensity for 90 minutes last night that we simply aren't capable of doing ourselves.

Maybe we thought we'd simply beat them because they were Swedish and we usually beat Swedish teams. It wouldn't be surprising as it's the kind of complacency that haunts Celtic. In the end, they wanted it more. They dug in at Celtic Park and for an hour they looked the more able and likely side. If the manager can't get his team to play as if they want it then we've got a problem. His team selection seemed to me like there are loud voices in the dressing room who didn't want Ambrose or Izzy picked. The manager played an untried defence in the most important game of the season. Whether he was listening to people in the dressing room, or whether he made the decision of his own accord, his bottle crashed. Subsequently the team's bottle crashed. We were unlucky with the goal last night, an appalling decision, but we have the ref to thank for not sending of any number of our players last night and so leading to further embarrassment.

I'm afraid I don't think Ronny has it. However, does he get the players he wants? Was it his choice to sell Berget (on the performance in the two legs you could say it's the kind of bruising performer that we have indeed lacked) or did Lawwell decide he wasn't cutting it and let him go? Did he want to sell Matthews, leaving him with the right back dilemma he had last night, where he ended up playing a rookie who has made one start for us?

Ultimately, if he goes, who's there to replace him? Who wants to be at a club which buys five suits from Oxfam and hopes one is wearable after a dry clean, rather than just putting the money together and buying, for want of a better phrase, a nice, sharp suit?

In the end, Celtic are not anymore in the business of building a team. They are in the business of managing expectations while selling the best players off a stuttering conveyor belt. Celtic in the last 4-5 seasons has had the makings of a top side. Yet we sell the forwards to finance the defence, leaving us with no forwards worthy of the jersey. Or we have holes in the defence that our decent forward line struggles to cover for. We've had a strong spine, from goalkeeper through central defence, midfield and up front. Regrettably, they never all played at the same time and, even more regrettably, those who have the power to make it happen have no interest in doing so.

Enjoy your £1M bonus, Peter, enjoy the Bahamas, Dermot. Send us a postcard with the next phase of the strategy on the back.
:potm:
:theclap: :theclap: :thumbsup:
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Estadio nacional
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£0.775m net spend this summer, 5 in 17 out. I know net spend can be looked at a few ways but people are talking about signbing before the vitial CL qualifier as being a risk.

Say we signed the rumored Croatian center half and a good striker before the deadline, say for roughly £10m.

Go out of CL in play off.

Two new 10m signings and no CL income.

Sell VvD for 10-12m, sorted.

Now its just selling VvD anyway.


We keep hearing about how well run we are, why would signing players before vital CL tie be a huge risk if we are so well run?


Tight arse lawwelll trying to get by with the minimum spend required. Maybe this kind of risk puts his bonus at threat, hence the non spending.


Get him to eff.
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westendtim
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shugmc
26 Aug 2015, 12:49 PM
westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 12:20 PM
Boycott a club that's on its way to 10 in a row :cuckoo: . disappointing night last night granted but let down by players not performing on the night not by the board members ! IMO
Posted Image
I been here a long time and am probably one of the grey groupies on here so I might have a more weathered perspective on this so a couple of points I would offer in support of my opinion
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact
2 we have learned to live within our means
3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure
4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players

I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
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wilbur67
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westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 12:20 PM
Boycott a club that's on its way to 10 in a row :cuckoo: . disappointing night last night granted but let down by players not performing on the night not by the board members ! IMO
Celtic won't get ten in a row.

Regardless, it's not going to need a boycott, people are already staying away. If we can't fill the stadium with a' winning' team , then it does not bode well imo.
Edited by wilbur67, 26 Aug 2015, 01:12 PM.
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Brucebhoy
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westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
shugmc
26 Aug 2015, 12:49 PM
westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 12:20 PM
Boycott a club that's on its way to 10 in a row :cuckoo: . disappointing night last night granted but let down by players not performing on the night not by the board members ! IMO
Posted Image
I been here a long time and am probably one of the grey groupies on here so I might have a more weathered perspective on this so a couple of points I would offer in support of my opinion
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact
2 we have learned to live within our means
3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure
4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players

I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
You are, in principle, correct.

But those same limitations also apply to Maribor and Malmo - more so, even, since we can outspend those clubs. Yet they've put us out of the CL.
Edited by Brucebhoy, 26 Aug 2015, 01:13 PM.
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tacticalgenius
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There are nuances to every deal and the strategy behind the club's many decisions is more than likely reasoned, considered and arguably well thought-through. there have been times when it has worked very well for us over the last ten years.

But this feels like a stagnation at best if not malign regression in the club. The top man has been there too long. We need a fresh well-thought out strategy from a new guy who isn't hand-in-glove with the remuneration committee, PLC Board and football board alike. The CEO is supposed to grow the business and I cannot, for the life of me, think of a single area in which the club has been grown in the latter half of Lawwell's tenure. And if there is one, I doubt it has grown at the rate of his salary. Is he a bad CEO? I don't think so. But is he good value? Not a chance. There's cheaper, younger and hungrier business arseholes out there who would still fit the template of the type of pr!k Desmond wants in the chair that would at least shake up the place and bring a new and different vision to the club. We change team managers every 5 years at the most and the same logic should apply to the CEO if not every senior management position.
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SaMule
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lennoxlegend
26 Aug 2015, 10:58 AM
Pedro is a Celtic man...if he moves who do you bring in...last nights shambles lies fairly and squarely with coaches and players...if we cant defend corners against an ordinary team like Malmo then we don't deserve to be in c.l...zonal marking?...not for me...deila deserves more time but he frustrates me sometimes with his moves...armstrong was playing Pk and Kris did nothing...butit took lemny three goes to get to c.i. So Ronny should het another

and pedro needs to give him decent money for decent defenders ....Lennoxlegend.
You bring in someone who can do a better job. Doesn't matter if he/she is a Celtic fan or not, just as long as they have ambition and the ability to achieve that ambition. And yes, that also means having the balls to make the call over whether or not the current manager is someone who can help achieve that ambition.

Problem is any replacement for Lawwell would need to be appointed by another guy who shows no sign of giving a eff about the way the club is run. Lawwell's undoubtedly a problem, but he's bulletproof while Desmond calls the shots. Until DD sells up nothing will really improve.
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Fortune Teller
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SaMule
26 Aug 2015, 01:15 PM
lennoxlegend
26 Aug 2015, 10:58 AM
Pedro is a Celtic man...if he moves who do you bring in...last nights shambles lies fairly and squarely with coaches and players...if we cant defend corners against an ordinary team like Malmo then we don't deserve to be in c.l...zonal marking?...not for me...deila deserves more time but he frustrates me sometimes with his moves...armstrong was playing Pk and Kris did nothing...butit took lemny three goes to get to c.i. So Ronny should het another

and pedro needs to give him decent money for decent defenders ....Lennoxlegend.
You bring in someone who can do a better job. Doesn't matter if he/she is a Celtic fan or not, just as long as they have ambition and the ability to achieve that ambition. And yes, that also means having the balls to make the call over whether or not the current manager is someone who can help achieve that ambition.

Problem is any replacement for Lawwell would need to be appointed by another guy who shows no sign of giving a eff about the way the club is run. Lawwell's undoubtedly a problem, but he's bulletproof while Desmond calls the shots. Until DD sells up nothing will really improve.
You also bring in someone who isn't the second highest paid guy at the club.
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Corky Buczek
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westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
shugmc
26 Aug 2015, 12:49 PM
westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 12:20 PM
Boycott a club that's on its way to 10 in a row :cuckoo: . disappointing night last night granted but let down by players not performing on the night not by the board members ! IMO
Posted Image
I been here a long time and am probably one of the grey groupies on here so I might have a more weathered perspective on this so a couple of points I would offer in support of my opinion
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact
2 we have learned to live within our means
3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure
4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players

I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
The CEO should not be getting paid more than our strikers irrespective of how well we do.

We have taken the decision for three years now to not spend whilst the qualifiers are on. This is a flawed concept for a variety of reasons.

If you do make it through then you are at the fag end of the window and you end up with the likes of Teemu Pukki.

And of course you run the risk that by not strengthening, you increase your chances of getting papped out.

I am not asking the club to get into major league debt. I am asking for sensible spending. Are you telling me that we can't afford say £2M for a left back that is an upgrade on what we have. And there is no point in saying to our best striker over the past decade that he is not worth £30K a week, then blew £7 or £8M on a succession of duds.

Just because we have minimal debt does not mean we are being run well at all
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Bryan67
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As a club we are now actually struggling along the slow lane, 2 years in a row lawwell has gambled and it has lost us minions upon millions.

When you think back to Lennons 3rd season we sold Ki but already had a ready made replacement in big vic, we where a strong says and it wasn't even a squad that had millions thrown at it, we had the correct resources to get to the groups but not the investment to go further than we did

The next season we sell £20m worth of talent to replaced by one decent signing, and a few panick buys and this time we just scraped through.

Last season we took the gamble to not invest any of the transfer or CL income from the previous year with a rookie manager in place, it back fired big time but slack was cut due to there being a new manager.

We all watched that team last season, we all knew how short of quality it was - despite his failings guidetti is a level above any striker we've had since hooper but we knew it wasn't working out, we knew izzaguire is on the decline, the defensively we are week and we lack a creative spark. These where and still are issues that have to be addressed for us to be in with the chance of the groups. Instead we by 3/4 of the Dundee Utd attacking line and have no sign of being linked with a left back.

Now we sell VVD to offset the CL loss, so there is another loss of quality in the team so again we go into next season with less quality and more positions to fill. I mean with the squad we have we should have negotiated these qualifiers anyways so this is where my doubt lies with the manager, especially after the players being scared talk - last time we seen that we where taking defeats on the chin.

We are in a rut just now and require mass changes on and off the park just to start building up some speed in the slow lane.
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OzzyBhoy
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It is quite incredible how much we have regressed in the last 3 seasons. 3 seasons ago we battered the Swedish champions at this stage, and had a great group stage performance (albeit with some luck on our side). This was a basis to at least build from. I think it is fair to say we cannot expect to compete for last 16 qualification each year, that is a fact. However, we should be able to comfortably qualify for the group stages and once there at least make a nuisance of ourselves. Instead we started selling off our best assets and replacing them with utter ****.

A year later we scraped through against some Kazakh mob. We got the **** kicked out of us in the groups and went out with a whimper. A tough group yes, but was 3 points out of 18 really acceptable? We scored in 2 games. 3 goals overall; 1 was a Sammy header, 1 was a deflected Kayal shot and the other a penalty converted by Forrest. The lack of investment by the board was clear at this point, and then at the end of the season Lenny left.

The next season Deila is in charge. It's understandable to get knocked out of the qualifiers in your first season, but 6-1 to a Polish mob..? Unacceptable. Him and the team got a 2nd chance and they also bottled that. He can't be all to blame there though, it's a complete joke that him getting a half-decent striker is dependent on reaching the group stages in the first place.

Yesterday we were knocked out again. This is down to both the incompetence of the board and Deila himself. His tactics were poor, but what support is he being given? Our team is utter crap, and it sickens me.

Malmo will probably get humped in the group stages and they went by us easily. I wish them the best of luck, because they deserved to go through last night.
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Sjb141
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tacticalgenius
26 Aug 2015, 01:15 PM
There are nuances to every deal and the strategy behind the club's many decisions is more than likely reasoned, considered and arguably well thought-through. there have been times when it has worked very well for us over the last ten years.

But this feels like a stagnation at best if not malign regression in the club. The top man has been there too long. We need a fresh well-thought out strategy from a new guy who isn't hand-in-glove with the remuneration committee, PLC Board and football board alike. The CEO is supposed to grow the business and I cannot, for the life of me, think of a single area in which the club has been grown in the latter half of Lawwell's tenure. And if there is one, I doubt it has grown at the rate of his salary. Is he a bad CEO? I don't think so. But is he good value? Not a chance. There's cheaper, younger and hungrier business arseholes out there who would still fit the template of the type of pr!k Desmond wants in the chair that would at least shake up the place and bring a new and different vision to the club. We change team managers every 5 years at the most and the same logic should apply to the CEO if not every senior management position.
I agree with this. They'll be a ton of anger (some right some wrong) in the next few weeks directed at the board/Lawwell so it's hard to take a well reasoned stand on this but I think you hit the nail on the head - even if you think Lawwell is a fantastic CEO it's clear that our issues are not just random variance but an issue with our overall setup and structure.

It's not like we lost 1 freak game against a team that parked the bus. We've had too many of these sion/karagandy/poznan/maribor results not to be illuminating that our plan isn't working.
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westendtim
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Corky Buczek
26 Aug 2015, 01:26 PM
westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
shugmc
26 Aug 2015, 12:49 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepPosted Image
I been here a long time and am probably one of the grey groupies on here so I might have a more weathered perspective on this so a couple of points I would offer in support of my opinion
1 we are in a piss poor league, not the boards fault, but a fact
2 we have learned to live within our means
3 we have bought, by and large, a successful raft of players that have meant a net profit on expenditure
4 our league is not good enough to attract or keep top players

I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion, however that is simply not possible or practical. We can only live within your means and stay solvent in a sensibly run business, as for wages, bonuses etc they are a fact of business life. I expect the business to be run properly and I think we should pay a living wage, boycott about that I'm with you, the rest is froth and embellishment!
The CEO should not be getting paid more than our strikers irrespective of how well we do.

We have taken the decision for three years now to not spend whilst the qualifiers are on. This is a flawed concept for a variety of reasons.

If you do make it through then you are at the fag end of the window and you end up with the likes of Teemu Pukki.

And of course you run the risk that by not strengthening, you increase your chances of getting papped out.

I am not asking the club to get into major league debt. I am asking for sensible spending. Are you telling me that we can't afford say £2M for a left back that is an upgrade on what we have. And there is no point in saying to our best striker over the past decade that he is not worth £30K a week, then blew £7 or £8M on a succession of duds.

Just because we have minimal debt does not mean we are being run well at all
I appreciate your point of view and don't disagree on the frustrations you feel as I am the same however a £2 million signing isn't the problem, its the wages a £2 million pound player commands, if you can tie your shoes laces in England you're on £30,000 a week. We just can't compete with demented TV funded wage structures. It's a difficult task because we are in the market where Boerrigters a plenty are in there! Look at the situation in the round and while not perfect and certainly not faultless, our boards doing a reasonable job. As to the argument in regard to CEO's wages then unfortunately they are market driven and I don't think we can deviate from what wages and earnings it takes to fill these posts, however I would take issue over people who slag of Lawwell as if Broonie,VVD, Griffith's, Forrest, Johansen performed as well as our board do, we'd be in CL! IMHO!!!
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Hoops For Me All The Way
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You want equality? Consider if that person feels Equal.
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Where do you start?

I'm still trying to get my head around this sorry state of affairs. But, the warning signs were there.

Many interesting posts, some with good ideas. But every single fan is in pain and is suffering.

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Loris
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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Bryan67
26 Aug 2015, 01:32 PM
We are in a rut just now and require mass changes on and off the park just to start building up some speed in the slow lane.
Seems like we find ourselves in this position every two years.
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ronny_is_not_da_man
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Hoops For Me All The Way
26 Aug 2015, 01:39 PM
Where do you start?

I'm still trying to get my head around this sorry state of affairs. But, the warning signs were there.

Many interesting posts, some with good ideas. But every single fan is in pain and is suffering.

Quote:
 
every single fan is in pain and is suffering.


We sure are :(
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popeyed
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Climbing walls while sittin' in a chair.
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westendtim
26 Aug 2015, 01:07 PM
I know that some one here like to bump their gums and live in some mid 90's dream state where clubs in Scotland overspend in a liquidation inducing fashion
FFS :cry:
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