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| The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM | |
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| Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,885 Views) | |
| Wee Ed KTF | 9 Oct 2014, 10:58 AM Post #2741 |
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Considering retirement
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Celtic third in the 'financial strength league' behind Ajax and Arsenal? Well done, Peter If Celtic were flying high - domestically dominant and in the Champions League group stages - then I would take pleasure from this lofty status. But we're not, so I won't. Balance sheet before team-sheet |
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| egan46 | 9 Oct 2014, 11:28 AM Post #2742 |
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First-team starter
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It'd be nice if the frugal attitude in the Summer was because DD is looking for a sale, and the resulting performance in the 'financial strength table' makes us more attractive to buyers. |
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| Smiley | 9 Oct 2014, 12:10 PM Post #2743 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Hmm. There are all sorts of Mike Ashleys out there. |
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| LoveCeltic | 9 Oct 2014, 12:20 PM Post #2744 |
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First name on the team-sheet
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Balance sheet over team sheet. Financial league over champions league. No surprises. |
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| egan46 | 9 Oct 2014, 02:16 PM Post #2745 |
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First-team starter
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True. But the first thing a company would do before a sale is to scale back all operations even if it means less short term revenue (not spending money before CL qualifiers), but at the same time making the company as attractive to prospective buyers as possible (no debt). I think DD has other priorities i.e. the Irish property market - http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/desmond-backs-200m-venture-for-new-houses-in-ireland-1.1944776 he could well and truly fill his boots here and at the age of 64, he might be thinking there are easier ways to earn a living than with Celtic. |
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| beer_goggler1888 | 9 Oct 2014, 03:06 PM Post #2746 |
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Harp Lager ICE cold
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Dermot Desmond doesn't earn a living through Celtic. We're merely a hobby he spends 5-6 days a year doing. |
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| cupboard | 9 Oct 2014, 03:10 PM Post #2747 |
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First team training
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DOES HE EVEN BOTHER NOW WITH THAT CROWD GONE ? i mean does he bother attending matches now without them matches and no champions league Edited by cupboard, 9 Oct 2014, 03:11 PM.
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| tinytim81 | 9 Oct 2014, 07:08 PM Post #2748 |
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42
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Based on the financial ruin of 94 we should be very proud of the business today. We've come a long way. The team however is a different matter. The downsizing following the MON years was a necessity. But as I've said before the board are risk averse to the point its become counter productive. It feels like they've got so good at steering us away from the rocks they've forgotten that gambling every now and then is better than playing it safe. |
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| Belgrano | 9 Oct 2014, 07:19 PM Post #2749 |
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Their "play it safe" approach is every bit of risky as the alternatives. The buy cheap, sell big approach only works as long as you continue to replace with similar potential and talent. All it takes is for a short break in that cycle and you're left with the top European stage to showcase that talent, and the demand to pay the sort of fees we've received in the past. The analogy of the "golden goose" is relevant, as once you've sold off the last of the sale-able assets, the core standard of the squad has been reduced to such an extent that substantial investment would be the only way to attempt to restore the team to previous levels. It's completely counter-productive. Although I've got a strange feeling, once we hit that point - that's when the likes of Lawwell will decided to 'bail' on the club. |
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| tinytim81 | 9 Oct 2014, 07:33 PM Post #2750 |
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42
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I don't think Lawwell would ever bail as it were. He might be forced out at some point but ultimately he was offered a lot more money to go to Arsenal but turned it down. Despite what you or I may think he is a Celtic fan. Last year I argued that it was pointless selling Hooper to Norwich. Even though we made a decent profit we gambled nearly twenty by not playing him against Karagandy at Parkhead. Hooper was wrapped in cotton wool during the biggest game of our season and it just wasn't worth it. We got lucky and progressed no thanks to that decision. As for this year it's been a combination of factors. The only big sale we made in the summer was Forster but were fortunate that we seem to have replaced him right away. However, after losing Ledley in January and it being obvious that Pukki and Balde were woeful we just let it fester. Deila was thrown in at the deep end. I don't blame him all that much for what happened because MON, Strachan and Lennon all had terrible starts in Europe. MON to a lesser extent but Strachan was humiliated in his first game and Lennon was repeatedly taken apart by pretty mediocre teams. PS. Should add - regarding your main point - I agree although it's a very fine line indeed. When to spend, when not to spend etc. Running Celtic and making a profit in this country is a very hard thing to do. If nothing else I'm pleased with that. Edited by tinytim81, 9 Oct 2014, 07:36 PM.
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| herbert viola | 9 Oct 2014, 08:02 PM Post #2751 |
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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why would you be pleased with making a profit? Its irrelevant. |
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| tinytim81 | 9 Oct 2014, 08:12 PM Post #2752 |
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42
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I'd rather be healthy than making a loss. |
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| Belgrano | 9 Oct 2014, 08:17 PM Post #2753 |
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The only reason Forster was our only big sale this summer, was because (along with Van Dijk) he remained our only player who we could get any sort of large transfer fee for. I fully expect the board to actively try and punt our last remaining golden egg in January, or next summer. After that - there's no-one else left in the squad who could command the sort of transfer fees we got for Ki, Wanyama or Forster. The law of diminishing returns. As for 'replacing' Forster, I agree Gordon's form has tempered the loss somewhat. However, what's undeniable is that we've got somewhat lucky with him so far. Never, can I recall, has a player been out of the professional game for so long and without a club, and came back and performed at the highest level. But it's only been a few months, and concerns over his longer-term fitness and ability to play every game will continue until this season is over at least. But at his current age and with his injury problems in the past - we won't receive a large fee for him if/when we decide to sell him. |
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| timtastic | 9 Oct 2014, 08:24 PM Post #2754 |
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Club Captain
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I would take a loss for a season if we bought decent quality players and not the bargain basement rejects we've generally bought in the last couple of years. |
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| tinytim81 | 9 Oct 2014, 08:45 PM Post #2755 |
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Yeah, I agree although I'd suggest that Johansen, Bitton, Lustig and Scepovic are all seen as players we'll sell for big profit. As it stands that's hard to imagine based on performances (particularly Johansen) but the model does appear to be continuing. As for Gordon - assuming he stays fit and on form - I'd give credit where it's due. That's an amazing bit of business. |
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| tinytim81 | 9 Oct 2014, 08:48 PM Post #2756 |
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42
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Absolutely. Although they're not all rejects. Cheap yes but a lot of them have been great and shown they can play at a very high level. It's worth noting that a squad assembled on buttons accomplished ten points in the CL and qualified. MON and his superstars only managed nine and never pulled that off. But as you say, it would be nice to see us actually spending some real money every once in a while. EDIT: I see you used the word 'generally' so apologies. Edited by tinytim81, 9 Oct 2014, 08:50 PM.
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| Wailer | 9 Oct 2014, 10:11 PM Post #2757 |
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Rebel music.
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Cheapest Arsenal SB = £1,014. |
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| sid1888 | 9 Oct 2014, 10:37 PM Post #2758 |
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First-team starter
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Always supported Lawwell as I felt he had a tough job with the demise of the huns and sunsequent lack of competition and marketing opportunities, the lack of revenue in Scottisg football, the SFA cheats, the MSM bias and the sometimes unrealistic aspirations of us, the fans. However, I now have no sympathy and think him and the board are a collective disgrace with no integrity (living wage), no sense of what the club really means, a failed business model (Pukki, Balde, Murphy, Bangura -v- Fletcher, Finboggason, Eriksson etc) and absolutely no vision other than the return of the 'old firm' rivalry which is a kick in the teeth to everyone of us who suffered the 90's - 2000's. Sack the Board.... |
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| Exercelt | 9 Oct 2014, 11:45 PM Post #2759 |
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Occasional Substitute
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That's deplorable! They get how much in that tv deal? They haven't challenged the title seriously in years but have the audacity to charge over £1,000 for a cheap season ticket? Says it all really! Cant see Celtic ever being able to do the cheap tickets a la Bayern but don't see our cheapest rising to £500 anytime soon |
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| ChiliPepper | 9 Oct 2014, 11:59 PM Post #2760 |
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Getting on a bit
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I wouldn't call the business modelvfailed, we've only had 2 bad years with it in place, as opposed to 3 years of growth and success. The model needs tweaked, not scrapped. An example would have been upping Hooper's wages and a bew cobtract after selling Wanyama. That would have saved us money and prevented a lot of shampooe football, but we were desperate to sell, for some mental reason. The board need to understand that we don't have to always sell our best players and that it's wages that determine quality. Therefore a smaller squad with a higher wage cap would mean a far better team than one with lots of £2mil but very low wages. But aye. It needs tweaked, not scrapped. |
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